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I thought of a way (sort of) for Abaddon to be not quite so static and stuck to a gunline.

Go the max three squads of havocs and have them follow Abaddon as he marches up the table. Havocs can move and shoot their heavy weapons so they won't be affected. Both Abby and the Havocs have a 6 inch move. Also, Abby will be a huge threat to anyone who wants to try and hit the Havocs in melee. He will heroically intervene and pound them into paste!

However, the havocs are going to be an obvious target as they march up the board with Abby. I was thinking one way is to keep them cheap by going full autocannon. So, you will have 3 squads of autocannon havocs. All these havocs will have 48 inch range, and reroll to hit. That's 24 shots each turn and 2 damage per shot. Its not bad really.

Each squad is very cheap. 110 points only. So, you feel the pinch so much if they are targeted and die.

The only issue is that having Abbadon buff only 330 points of stuff with his reroll to hit aura is kinda a bit of a waste. One way is to have other stuff like maybe a Daemon Engine walk behind that moving castle (Defiler?) and cast Blasphemous machines on it every turn. Not the best really. Actually, I think for using this blasphemous machines, best is on a tri las predator, which would be an obvious target though...

We could also have a squad of chosen with combi bolters, or even a squad of combi bolter, chain axe terminators walk in front of Abby. Then Abby's multiplier effect will be higher. I actually think Abby would prefer to move advance each turn since his bolter is good, anyway, he still gets 2 shots with his bolter because of the black legion trait.

If you have a Oblit squad waiting to come down, and Abby is advancing up the board. I think the opponent would also be worried. Turn 2, if the oblits come down mid board and Abby is exactly there as well, you are going to have Oblits which have reroll to hit. That would be nasty with Cacophony. I think Abby can get to mid board quite easily with move advance.

And yes Slayer, Council of traitors wouldn't apply to LOD. It only applies strictly to one DA and sorceror. But at least its 1 CP to give warlord trait to both a DA and a sorceror. So, its pretty nifty. The shadowspear box has a whole bunch of warlord traits for psykers. And black legion has a whole bunch too. So, there is really quite a lot.

If you are thinking of all this, black legion spearhead detachment is absolutely needed though. lol

Are the new relics in the new codex? I would like to be sure before I buy it this weekend? If not anything else that I would need to buy Vigilus Ablaze for?

 Lord Blackscale wrote:
Are the new relics in the new codex? I would like to be sure before I buy it this weekend? If not anything else that I would need to buy Vigilus Ablaze for?

You need VA for the new Strategic Detachment rules, the expanded Renegades rules, the Black Legion mini-Index.

Pedantic gripe, but can we stop calling them "Lord of Discordant" (LOD)?

It's just "Lord Discordant"
Of if you really want to be all grammatical, "Lord of Discord"

 MinMax wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
So the real question is if the Lord Discordant counts as a Lord for the purpose of that Strategem. If he does...oh Lordy

?? Which strategem are you talking about? @@ If you mean field commander. He absolutely does. You can use field commander on a character and the Lord of DIscordant counts as a character. But he of course needs to also be allowed to be given the specialist keyword. So, raptorial host and bringers of dispair is out for him (jump packs and termi armor dudes). But soul forged detachment he definitely qualifies because he is a warpsmith keyword too. I think he only applies to devastation battery and soulforged detachment because those allow warpsmiths. He doesn't really fit devastation battery very well, because he doesn't really want to baby sit oblits and havocs. lol. Anyway, this is why you could have a command detachment of 3 LOD, and you can make 1 a warlord with halves all dmg, make another the soul forged detachment warlord to give the +2 Movement. And nominate all 3 LOD. So, now you have 3 LOD moving at 14 inches and 1 of them halve all dmg. lol.

And actually, if you have the points and want to go all out. supreme commande detachment allows for a Lord of war too. So go ahead and fit in a Kytan Ravager or LOS into that detachment and make it part of the soulforge detachment as well. (evil grin)

I was talking about Council of Traitors.

The Lord Discordant does not qualify for any of the positions on a Council of Traitors. His only relevant keyword is WARPSMITH.

Shame.

So I'm definitely thinking a Spearhead for him, Black Legion halving damage Warlord Trait w/ Sightless Helm or Talisman, with three Maulerfiends all with Tendrils. Seems quick as is to get into the mess of it.

Kdash wrote:

Invul wrote:
Flawless Host Lord of Discordant with its native +1 to hit and Ultimate Confidence looks way better than an FH Daemon Prince with the same trait. 11 attacks triggering on 5s without Presience potentially resulting in 44 attacks on Imperium units is dumb insane. And only dumber with the Mecha-serpents relic, given the size of his base.

In a way, yes, but, then the Lord will get shot off the table turn 1, whereas the Prince likely won't.

yes that's is the big difference, prince 90% of time get into close combat, models like LOD not

Ran the following tricks at tournament this last weekend. We allowed the new chaos codex but not vigulus for ease of "people learning the new rules" which considering i was the only chaos player i was ok with.

Abaddon
Term sorcerer
20x chaos marines w/ bolters
10x chaos marines, 1w/ combi plasma & 2 w/ plasma guns
10x chaos marines, 1w/ combi plasma & 2 w/ plasma guns

Dark apostle w/ -1 to hit prayer
Lord of skulls w/ gattling cannon and demagore cannon

2 defilers w/ scourges and autocannons

Herald of khorne w/ blood crown


Not the most powerful list but i won 3 out of 4 games! Only lost to genestealer cults due to mind control of my los and the resulting bloodshed lol. My fault for not having a proper screen set up.


The mvp was that lord of skulls though. He killed 5 of those damn ad mech shooty robots just from shooting (i was hoping for mortal wounds to bounce back and hurt me to anger the lord) and single handedly took out half of the opponents ad mech force by itself (and the dark apostle praying for -1 to hit).

In another game vs dark angels he killed a squad of 8 hellblasters "screeing" for azreal, a leutinant, and a company ancient with his guns then charged in and 1 shotted azreal. Belial teleported in with his terms and tried to save the others. Then the los killed belials terms with his guns and drove in and 1 shottrd belial! It was glorious, the los just standing there in the wreckage of the da lines tearing chrs appart while the rest of the force just spent their time grabbing objectives and doing whatever they felt like.

If your going to use the los, spend the points and give him that gattling and put a herald of khorne with the blood crown in range.

D6 auto hits w/ 6's generating additional hits and 12 str 8 ap-2 2d with again 6's generating additional hits, its very good. Especially on 28 wounds -1 to hit and taking damage makes it stronger.

so Chosen of the Pantheon. Is that just a trap or actually useful?
You could buff the bajesus out of one unit and have it to go on a murder rampage in theory , but the amount of CP and buffs it requires seems a little over the top?
You can't exactly afford to miss any attacks.

The obvious target would be terminators since they still get access to VotLW and bring both good shooting and melee, but the army woulld be basially cultists and a bunch of characters to milk he stratagem to the max.
I mean, if you're not using both the khorne stratagem and slaanesh , why bother? At the same time that would imply throwing all your cp at that one unit to become the mother of all one time trick ponies. (and not really since you can see it coming a mile away)

Maybe with demonic units and heralds but then you kind of still doing the same thing. Stacking them Strength auras on top of the daemon detachment buffs?
That might be somewhat affordable, not so sure about actually getting them all in range though.

It would be cool if we could use it efficiently on oblits to benefit from tree and fire twice. But as they typically start In reserves Its complicated.

Have to say though, I am tempted to make a units of chosen with thunderhammers lol. That should look rather impressive

Anyone have a size comparison on the old metal Oblits and the new ones? I also have 2 sets of the Wargame Exclusive nurgle Oblits.

So 9 oblits total already, but keeping downsized scale and using bigger bases really irks me... I already have a set of the old Metal Terminators that have never seen a tabletop.

Eldenfirefly wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
rhino ideal is cool!

funny thing is you could get the DA to bless the rhino then in his movement phase he can actually jump in it XD

can do the same thing with alpha legion plague marines!
20 AL plague marines -3 to hit them and when you do they're T5 with a 5+ FNP.... gooooood luck shifting them

Glad you liked the idea!

It's a great idea but you are going to need cheap bikes to run escort or something similar. A rhino rushing forward is all fun and games until they charge cheap crap into it and wrap it up. Suddenly you have a tin can full of angry mates that cannot disembark. Heck they could not charge and just run a line in front of the tank. I still think it's a fun trick, but it is actually pretty easily managed while they just shoot over it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Azuza001 wrote:
Ran the following tricks at tournament this last weekend. We allowed the new chaos codex but not vigulus for ease of "people learning the new rules" which considering i was the only chaos player i was ok with.

Abaddon
Term sorcerer
20x chaos marines w/ bolters
10x chaos marines, 1w/ combi plasma & 2 w/ plasma guns
10x chaos marines, 1w/ combi plasma & 2 w/ plasma guns

Dark apostle w/ -1 to hit prayer
Lord of skulls w/ gattling cannon and demagore cannon

2 defilers w/ scourges and autocannons

Herald of khorne w/ blood crown


Not the most powerful list but i won 3 out of 4 games! Only lost to genestealer cults due to mind control of my los and the resulting bloodshed lol. My fault for not having a proper screen set up.


The mvp was that lord of skulls though. He killed 5 of those damn ad mech shooty robots just from shooting (i was hoping for mortal wounds to bounce back and hurt me to anger the lord) and single handedly took out half of the opponents ad mech force by itself (and the dark apostle praying for -1 to hit).

In another game vs dark angels he killed a squad of 8 hellblasters "screeing" for azreal, a leutinant, and a company ancient with his guns then charged in and 1 shotted azreal. Belial teleported in with his terms and tried to save the others. Then the los killed belials terms with his guns and drove in and 1 shottrd belial! It was glorious, the los just standing there in the wreckage of the da lines tearing chrs appart while the rest of the force just spent their time grabbing objectives and doing whatever they felt like.

If your going to use the los, spend the points and give him that gattling and put a herald of khorne with the blood crown in range.

D6 auto hits w/ 6's generating additional hits and 12 str 8 ap-2 2d with again 6's generating additional hits, its very good. Especially on 28 wounds -1 to hit and taking damage makes it stronger.

As a GSC player I'll let you in on a secret. Always keep another model, preferably a scrub within 1" of your LOS. Mind control forces you to make a SINGLE melee attack if a model is within an inch of an enemy (which your models then become) rather then shoot all it's weapons.

PS it also has to shoot all it's guns into one target, not sure if he did or not but a ton of folks play that wrong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gorgnoob wrote:

Spoiler:

 Roknar wrote:
so Chosen of the Pantheon. Is that just a trap or actually useful?
You could buff the bajesus out of one unit and have it to go on a murder rampage in theory , but the amount of CP and buffs it requires seems a little over the top?
You can't exactly afford to miss any attacks.

The obvious target would be terminators since they still get access to VotLW and bring both good shooting and melee, but the army woulld be basially cultists and a bunch of characters to milk he stratagem to the max.
I mean, if you're not using both the khorne stratagem and slaanesh , why bother? At the same time that would imply throwing all your cp at that one unit to become the mother of all one time trick ponies. (and not really since you can see it coming a mile away)

Maybe with demonic units and heralds but then you kind of still doing the same thing. Stacking them Strength auras on top of the daemon detachment buffs?
That might be somewhat affordable, not so sure about actually getting them all in range though.

It would be cool if we could use it efficiently on oblits to benefit from tree and fire twice. But as they typically start In reserves Its complicated.

I think the best way to play that stratagem is with passive buffs from demonic allies. Which means your wanting demonic models. Otherwise your just pouring way to much random onto a unit by using a laundry list of psychic powers. I think it has merit for sure, but it's pretty obvious your list is going to lean heavily into making that gimmick work.

did anyone catch d6 evolutions 50+ mortal wound black legion lord with a chainsword?

 Latro_ wrote:
did anyone catch d6 evolutions 50+ mortal wound black legion lord with a chainsword?

Is that a video or website? Citations or links would be helpful.

Yeah i know about the keeping a guy within 1". Problem with the los specifically is he can shoot out of combat if the units he is in cc with are all infantry. Like i said i played that game wrong and payed the price

Has anyone tried a "purge" trait maximizing list?

 Latro_ wrote:
did anyone catch d6 evolutions 50+ mortal wound black legion lord with a chainsword?

I don't think its actually 50+ mortal wounds. Its basically using the warlord trait 6+ to wound is a mortal wound and then using flawless host, dttfe, and other stuff to pop additional attacks and mortal wounds. Its not bad but it relys on a lot of different things to work and most of those things become dependent on other things. I don't expect it to become an actual thing you see in tournaments but its interesting.

Azuza001 wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
did anyone catch d6 evolutions 50+ mortal wound black legion lord with a chainsword?

I don't think its actually 50+ mortal wounds. Its basically using the warlord trait 6+ to wound is a mortal wound and then using flawless host, dttfe, and other stuff to pop additional attacks and mortal wounds. Its not bad but it relys on a lot of different things to work and most of those things become dependent on other things. I don't expect it to become an actual thing you see in tournaments but its interesting.

Theres some merit to that as a kamikaze missile.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
did anyone catch d6 evolutions 50+ mortal wound black legion lord with a chainsword?

I don't think its actually 50+ mortal wounds. Its basically using the warlord trait 6+ to wound is a mortal wound and then using flawless host, dttfe, and other stuff to pop additional attacks and mortal wounds. Its not bad but it relys on a lot of different things to work and most of those things become dependent on other things. I don't expect it to become an actual thing you see in tournaments but its interesting.

Theres some merit to that as a kamikaze missile.

Do we really need another one of those?
Between Oblits, cultistbombs, bloodletters, etc i think we don't need another one.

Not Online!!! wrote:

Do we really need another one of those?
Between Oblits, cultistbombs, bloodletters, etc i think we don't need another one.

What is a cultist bomb?

 Darkseid wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Do we really need another one of those?
Between Oblits, cultistbombs, bloodletters, etc i think we don't need another one.

What is a cultist bomb?

The cultist shenanigans with tide, VotLW and Slaanesh cacophony, granted we ain't gonna see that that much anymore due to Mere Mortals, 5 ppm and 30 instead of 40.

I'm really liking scourged personally. Really solid trait and the strat is a deterrent at the least.

Anyone else on scourged or is it mostly RC?

Azuza001 wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
did anyone catch d6 evolutions 50+ mortal wound black legion lord with a chainsword?

I don't think its actually 50+ mortal wounds. Its basically using the warlord trait 6+ to wound is a mortal wound and then using flawless host, dttfe, and other stuff to pop additional attacks and mortal wounds. Its not bad but it relys on a lot of different things to work and most of those things become dependent on other things. I don't expect it to become an actual thing you see in tournaments but its interesting.

It is a Black Legion Lord, with the chainsword relic and another chainsword, as well as the warlord trait, so he gets 7 attacks that deal 2 mortal wounds on 6+ (5+ with VotLW), most likely with jump pack. It doesn't require much to work as is, and it is pretty strong, since 6 of the attacks are AP -3 and D2. Add in Fury of Khorne if needed. Pretty much a shield captain on steroids.

You can then add stuff on top, like reroll to wounds from an exalted champion, diabolic strength, Dark apostle's +1 to wound, etc. But if you plan on deepstricking it, I don't think you'll really get to use all those buffs.

dominuschao wrote:
I'm really liking scourged personally. Really solid trait and the strat is a deterrent at the least.

Anyone else on scourged or is it mostly RC?

Debating internally atm between scouged, purge for a csm gunline army.

The Purge offers some really nice dice stacking if you run many msu, you can easily improve your rate of wounding alot.

Scourged is better at defending. However r&h have a similiar trait and as amazing as it sounds it's more ehhh then one thinks.

Relic wise i belive there can be a case made for the scourged.

hortsmann wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
did anyone catch d6 evolutions 50+ mortal wound black legion lord with a chainsword?

I don't think its actually 50+ mortal wounds. Its basically using the warlord trait 6+ to wound is a mortal wound and then using flawless host, dttfe, and other stuff to pop additional attacks and mortal wounds. Its not bad but it relys on a lot of different things to work and most of those things become dependent on other things. I don't expect it to become an actual thing you see in tournaments but its interesting.

It is a Black Legion Lord, with the chainsword relic and another chainsword, as well as the warlord trait, so he gets 7 attacks that deal 2 mortal wounds on 6+ (5+ with VotLW), most likely with jump pack. It doesn't require much to work as is, and it is pretty strong, since 6 of the attacks are AP -3 and D2. Add in Fury of Khorne if needed. Pretty much a shield captain on steroids.

You can then add stuff on top, like reroll to wounds from an exalted champion, diabolic strength, Dark apostle's +1 to wound, etc. But if you plan on deepstricking it, I don't think you'll really get to use all those buffs.

Switch out the regular Chainsword for a Bolt Pistol and use the D3 Mortal Wounds of course!

Not Online!!! wrote:

dominuschao wrote:
I'm really liking scourged personally. Really solid trait and the strat is a deterrent at the least.

Anyone else on scourged or is it mostly RC?

Debating internally atm between scouged, purge for a csm gunline army.

The Purge offers some really nice dice stacking if you run many msu, you can easily improve your rate of wounding alot.

Scourged is better at defending. However r&h have a similiar trait and as amazing as it sounds it's more ehhh then one thinks.

Relic wise i belive there can be a case made for the scourged.

Purged look decent too. I just hate having rules that force or at least effect my decisions like that. Haven't looked at RH in a long time honestly.

What I know I will enjoy is overwatch 5+ from oblits and reaper cc's plus built in reroll on my plasma/las etc. I honestly think this faction is under the radar atm. Plus it has great synergy with rubrics who need it (and maybe some love from the big FUQ). Hmm now that I'm thinking on it more rubrics go well with purged too.

I was pretty stoked about daemonkin ritualists too until I noticed their strat requires a MOP. I'm still bent on trying possessed. Again. But this time with greater posse support.

Edit- on that note greater possessed can benefit from "I am alpharius" which is cool.

dominuschao wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

dominuschao wrote:
I'm really liking scourged personally. Really solid trait and the strat is a deterrent at the least.

Anyone else on scourged or is it mostly RC?

Debating internally atm between scouged, purge for a csm gunline army.

The Purge offers some really nice dice stacking if you run many msu, you can easily improve your rate of wounding alot.

Scourged is better at defending. However r&h have a similiar trait and as amazing as it sounds it's more ehhh then one thinks.

Relic wise i belive there can be a case made for the scourged.

Purged look decent too. I just hate having rules that force or at least effect my decisions like that. Haven't looked at RH in a long time honestly.

What I know I will enjoy is overwatch 5+ from oblits and reaper cc's plus built in reroll on my plasma/las etc. I honestly think this faction is under the radar atm. Plus it has great synergy with rubrics who need it (and maybe some love from the big FUQ). Hmm now that I'm thinking on it more rubrics go well with purged too.

I was pretty stoked about daemonkin ritualists too until I noticed their strat requires a MOP. I'm still bent on trying possessed. Again. But this time with greater posse support.

Edit- on that note greater possessed can benefit from "I am alpharius" which is cool.

Cheap characters that can handle themselves in combat are a perfect candidate for Alpha Legion for that reason. I can't see them doing great overall though.

I am sorely tempted to try out the 28 CP Huron list just to see if having a truckload of CP and being able to recycle CSM squads for what should be the majority of the game can get the job done.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

dominuschao wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

dominuschao wrote:
I'm really liking scourged personally. Really solid trait and the strat is a deterrent at the least.

Anyone else on scourged or is it mostly RC?

Debating internally atm between scouged, purge for a csm gunline army.

The Purge offers some really nice dice stacking if you run many msu, you can easily improve your rate of wounding alot.

Scourged is better at defending. However r&h have a similiar trait and as amazing as it sounds it's more ehhh then one thinks.

Relic wise i belive there can be a case made for the scourged.

Purged look decent too. I just hate having rules that force or at least effect my decisions like that. Haven't looked at RH in a long time honestly.

What I know I will enjoy is overwatch 5+ from oblits and reaper cc's plus built in reroll on my plasma/las etc. I honestly think this faction is under the radar atm. Plus it has great synergy with rubrics who need it (and maybe some love from the big FUQ). Hmm now that I'm thinking on it more rubrics go well with purged too.

I was pretty stoked about daemonkin ritualists too until I noticed their strat requires a MOP. I'm still bent on trying possessed. Again. But this time with greater posse support.

Edit- on that note greater possessed can benefit from "I am alpharius" which is cool.

Cheap characters that can handle themselves in combat are a perfect candidate for Alpha Legion for that reason. I can't see them doing great overall though.

Probably not. Flawless host possessed with a shepherd otoh I think is going to be pretty effective. Its the other concept I've been stewing on.. double possessed in rhinos with greater posse attached. Or horde style slogging. Either way they don't fold as easy as zerks if I don't pull off the charge and they will hit like a truck with prescience and ultimate confidence plus shepherds mortal wounds.

Azuza001 wrote:
Ran the following tricks at tournament this last weekend. We allowed the new chaos codex but not vigulus for ease of "people learning the new rules" which considering i was the only chaos player i was ok with.

Abaddon
Term sorcerer
20x chaos marines w/ bolters
10x chaos marines, 1w/ combi plasma & 2 w/ plasma guns
10x chaos marines, 1w/ combi plasma & 2 w/ plasma guns

Dark apostle w/ -1 to hit prayer
Lord of skulls w/ gattling cannon and demagore cannon

2 defilers w/ scourges and autocannons

Herald of khorne w/ blood crown


Not the most powerful list but i won 3 out of 4 games! Only lost to genestealer cults due to mind control of my los and the resulting bloodshed lol. My fault for not having a proper screen set up.


The mvp was that lord of skulls though. He killed 5 of those damn ad mech shooty robots just from shooting (i was hoping for mortal wounds to bounce back and hurt me to anger the lord) and single handedly took out half of the opponents ad mech force by itself (and the dark apostle praying for -1 to hit).

In another game vs dark angels he killed a squad of 8 hellblasters "screeing" for azreal, a leutinant, and a company ancient with his guns then charged in and 1 shotted azreal. Belial teleported in with his terms and tried to save the others. Then the los killed belials terms with his guns and drove in and 1 shottrd belial! It was glorious, the los just standing there in the wreckage of the da lines tearing chrs appart while the rest of the force just spent their time grabbing objectives and doing whatever they felt like.

If your going to use the los, spend the points and give him that gattling and put a herald of khorne with the blood crown in range.

D6 auto hits w/ 6's generating additional hits and 12 str 8 ap-2 2d with again 6's generating additional hits, its very good. Especially on 28 wounds -1 to hit and taking damage makes it stronger.

That's wonderful! Thanks for sharing! I love my LOS model. But my friends know what's it capable of and always avoid it, block it, and play missions. Very canny. May I ask, you took the Khorne bloodmaster as an auxiliary support and took a -1 CP for that? And how did you play the crown, just 1 additional shot right? I hope you didn't play that a 6 gives you 12 additional shot from your LOS gatling cannon lol. And how did Abaddon fare? I am still figuring out what's the best way to use him.

btw, if you just want to make your list and LS even better. Just use him as iron warriors legion. Then he gets the iron within iron without strategem that gives him 6+ FNP. You may think that's not much, but when the opponent is trying to focus him down, over the course of his 28 wounds, that 6+ FNP will actually end up saving quite a few wounds!