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Karnij wrote: The problem i see with Brazen Beasts is that they're a chapter supposedly built around demon engines, yet in GWs stupidity they FAQed it so you can't take a MoP with them, which seems vital to overcoming the flaws with demon engines. And it's not balanced out by anything because again GW decided CSM legion traits should apply only to infantry, unlike almost every other army except loyalist marines.
That was originally the army i was building until the FAQ, so i switched to Hounds of Abaddon so I could have MoP and the warlord trait that seems to be the only way to keep a Discordant alive. I can't see him living past turn 1 any other way.
For just a bunch of berzerkers though, and if you leave the demon engines at home, that trait does seem pretty cool. Whoever mentioned Red Corsairs though, that advance and charge is an interesting idea, could you get away with not having a rhino for each berzerker squad that way you think?
I mean the Lord discordant still exists but it makes neither lore wise sense (you need a Psyker for possesion and or daemonforging) nor gamewise. Best case would've been a exception to the MoP instead of this no psykers at all rule but i guess the daemonkin and daemonforge army can't field psykers.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
or they secure their deamon engines from the dark mechanicus instead of making their own or they simply use other ways, masters of posession are more focused on making possessed etc, it's warp smiths billed as the deamon engine crafters
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/24 21:27:21
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
BrianDavion wrote: or they secure their deamon engines from the dark mechanicus instead of making their own or they simply use other ways, masters of posession are more focused on making possessed etc, it's warp smiths billed as the deamon engine crafters
Problem is they are supposed to be a daemonkin and daemonengine army, 1 of which can be bought only for a price.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
I'm wondering if there's a way to take additional warlord traits that i'm missing. I know field commander, but with that you have to take warlord traits specific to specialist detachments right? Or Council of Traitors, but that's just lord/sorc/apostle?
I'm attempting to find a way to take a warlord trait on my newly build chainlord, flames of spite obviously, while still being able to keep indomitable on my lord discordant. I'm pretty sure there's no way to do this, but with so much content spread across a few books i'm not sure if i missed something.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/24 22:24:14
Greetings everyone. Long time lurker, first time poster on this thread. Looking for advice on my list. I have a grudge vs a Knight player because I have yet to beat him. We are going to do an ITC game. LGS meta has everything. I prefer TAC lists. I feel my list has a good core to win. The question is what kind of detachment do i add for the 3rd, and what to use the final points on. Im open to anything chaos has access to. Right now i have a renegade knight, a lot of death guard and many more 1ksons. 1. Spend 5 CP at the battle start to deep strike all khrone into his face.2. Plaguebearers protect the rest of the army. 3. ???? 4. Profit.
Ahriman on Disc of Tzeentch [9 PL, 166pts]: Death Hex, Temporal Manipulation, Weaver of Fates
Daemon Prince of Tzeentch [9 PL, 183pts]: Diabolic Strength, Malefic talon [10pts], Warp bolter [3pts], Warptime, Wings [1 PL, 24pts]
Daemon Prince of Tzeentch [9 PL, 183pts]: Glamour of Tzeentch, Helm of the Third Eye, Malefic talon [10pts], Treason of Tzeentch, Warp bolter [3pts], Wings [1 PL, 24pts]
Household Choice: House Taranis, Questor Mechanicus
+ Lord of War +
Armiger Helverins [9 PL, 174pts]
. Armiger Helverin: Heavy stubber
Armiger Warglaives [9 PL, 164pts]
. Armiger Warglaive: Heavy stubber
Knight Warden [23 PL, 456pts]: Heavy stubber, Heirloom: Endless Fury, Reaper chainsword, Stormspear rocket pod, Warlord Trait: Ion Bulwark
. Avenger Gatling Cannon w/ Heavy Flamer: Avenger gatling cannon, Heavy flamer
. Character: Warlord
++ Total: [109 PL, 1964pts] ++
“Nor public flame, nor private, dares to shine; Nor human spark is left, nor glimpse divine! Lo! thy dread empire, Chaos! is restored; Light dies before thy uncreating word:thy hand, great Anarch! lets the curtain fall; And universal darkness buries all.”
And non-WE zerkers are fine imo too. As you say they tend to overkill as it is.
Red Corsair zerkers are bonkers. The advance + charge more than makes up for the lost attacks.
Turn one charges are quite doable with Warptime and a couple of CP reserved to maximising Advances.
Could deploy a full squad of 20 in a FW transport for an extra 3” reach. If it’s a Spartan, a DA giving it -1 to be hit could make it an interesting fire magnet; opponent assumes you’re going to WT it T1 for a T2 disembark & charge, assumes their screens are out of reach T1 and that knocking it down a few tiers of movement is doable enough to aim for. Even if they kill it, the zerks still gain 3” as they climb out.
Could be especially nice with Slaaneshi Daemon support; throw some Fiends in there and all it takes is for a single one of them to tag-team with a single Berzerker and they’re immune to almost all shooting in the enemy turn. If the enemy don’t charge them with a beatstick unit, counter-offensive could really pile up the skulls.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/25 01:12:44
Go lascannon heavy? Seems like such a unit would definitely get fire focused though. But we can't choose to bring a havoc unit with say 2 lascannons and 2 bolters because you have to bring heavy weapons.
Equipping a Havoc with a heavy bolter to make it abalative wound seems ... less efficient. So I really can't decide how I want to equip my Havocs. Just go all out reaper cannons? lascannons for max efficiency or have some heavy bolters or autocannons to increase the :abalative wounds" on a Havoc unit.
This kinda assumes I am running Abaddon of course. Because I feel that Abaddon goes really well with Havocs since they can move and shoot.
Sorcerer [6 PL, 98pts]: 5. Trusted War-leader, Bolt pistol, Council of Traitors, Delightful Agonies, Force sword, Mark of Slaanesh, Prescience
+ Heavy Support +
Havocs [7 PL, 153pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
Aspiring Champion: Chainaxe, Combi-bolter
4x Havoc w/ reaper chaincannon: 4x Reaper chaincannon
Havocs [7 PL, 153pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
Aspiring Champion: Chainaxe, Combi-bolter
4x Havoc w/ reaper chaincannon: 4x Reaper chaincannon
Obliterators [18 PL, 345pts]: Mark of Slaanesh, 3x Obliterator
DA is ok imho, his defensive buffs can really help, and unlike psykers you are sure the power s gonna come off. I know other lasers could help, but LR and Predators will be tied up or destroyed in a turn... what should I take in, what should I take out?
On my suggestion my game group plays CA and I strictly forbid FW
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/25 09:15:01
Go lascannon heavy? Seems like such a unit would definitely get fire focused though. But we can't choose to bring a havoc unit with say 2 lascannons and 2 bolters because you have to bring heavy weapons.
Equipping a Havoc with a heavy bolter to make it abalative wound seems ... less efficient. So I really can't decide how I want to equip my Havocs. Just go all out reaper cannons? lascannons for max efficiency or have some heavy bolters or autocannons to increase the :abalative wounds" on a Havoc unit.
This kinda assumes I am running Abaddon of course. Because I feel that Abaddon goes really well with Havocs since they can move and shoot.
I mean it depends massively, the thing is, the only ablative wound we can get for Havocs is the champion. (for some reason...... Thank you GW)
Lascannon heavy is something you can always consider, you don't lose through moving the unit out of cover or LoS blocking terrain and with abigail in the mix granting you full rerolls to hit it is frankly a goot anti tank unit.
Point is, if you have enough anti infantry or Anti tank, that kinda dictates what you equip them.
(or you go middle way give out AC's and profit from stratagems)
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
ChaosPriest1939 wrote: Greetings everyone. Long time lurker, first time poster on this thread. Looking for advice on my list. I have a grudge vs a Knight player because I have yet to beat him. We are going to do an ITC game. LGS meta has everything. I prefer TAC lists. I feel my list has a good core to win. The question is what kind of detachment do i add for the 3rd, and what to use the final points on. Im open to anything chaos has access to. Right now i have a renegade knight, a lot of death guard and many more 1ksons. 1. Spend 5 CP at the battle start to deep strike all khrone into his face.2. Plaguebearers protect the rest of the army. 3. ???? 4. Profit.
Knights weaknesses are melee and psychic powers. Get a chainlord (search this thread), use a flawless host daemon prince with intoxicating elixir (search this thread), more tsons psykers for smite spam, remove their inv with death hex, use treason of tzeentch (which only works with LD debuffs). Use 30 cultists with +2 to wound and +1 to hit (with a chaos lord to re-roll 1s) to shoot the knight with mass autogun fire. Use 30 pink horrors with flickering flames, herald of tzeentch and boon of change to shoot the knight. A tzeentch daemon prince lets them re-roll 1s. And the daemonspark WLT lets them re-roll 1s to wound.
Or ignore the knights and play for points. Use lots of models with obsec to control the board, and deny your opponent objective markers. Kill his obsec infantry.
Thank you very much p5freakMade, I appreciate it. I will check out that video. Thankfully ive been lurking here since the start of 8th and I am familiar with those units. Time to go to the local game store!
“Nor public flame, nor private, dares to shine; Nor human spark is left, nor glimpse divine! Lo! thy dread empire, Chaos! is restored; Light dies before thy uncreating word:thy hand, great Anarch! lets the curtain fall; And universal darkness buries all.”
Sorcerer [6 PL, 98pts]: 5. Trusted War-leader, Bolt pistol, Council of Traitors, Delightful Agonies, Force sword, Mark of Slaanesh, Prescience
+ Heavy Support +
Havocs [7 PL, 153pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
Aspiring Champion: Chainaxe, Combi-bolter
4x Havoc w/ reaper chaincannon: 4x Reaper chaincannon
Havocs [7 PL, 153pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
Aspiring Champion: Chainaxe, Combi-bolter
4x Havoc w/ reaper chaincannon: 4x Reaper chaincannon
Obliterators [18 PL, 345pts]: Mark of Slaanesh, 3x Obliterator
DA is ok imho, his defensive buffs can really help, and unlike psykers you are sure the power s gonna come off. I know other lasers could help, but LR and Predators will be tied up or destroyed in a turn... what should I take in, what should I take out?
On my suggestion my game group plays CA and I strictly forbid FW
Sorry man not my intent. Orks are strong at lower levels is maybe what I should have said. Getting ready for a trip so I'll just post some quick thoughts in the abstract..
Idk what your local meta is but if its hordes then reaper cc is the obvious choice. IMO most TAC lists want a mix of targets for cacophony so you can plan for going 1st or 2nd and reach key targets. This to me says reaper cc havocs, las havocs, oblits. I wouldn't look to handle orks in assault. Rather shoot, screen, shoot counter assault. If orks were giving me problems I'd look to a few counters like these and just off the top of my head:
Screens/anti-assault:
alpha legion- fwd ops- one large unit for board control to push back early assaults. Cultists target gretchin to reduce grot shield impact..
death guard- nurglings- if you don't want to dip into AL. foul BS.
anti horde:
CSM- chain havocs: prescience/votlw/chaos lord.. guaranteed one dead boyz a round maybe two list depending. BC arrays (deredeo, leviathan).
death guard- supporating plate.
counter assault:
CSM- msu zerks, chain lord, DP.
I'll check back later. GL
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/25 15:31:30
xeen wrote: Just a suggestion, I know it is not new or sexy, but you can get 3 bikes with 2 flamers and 1 combi-flamer for only 89 points. That is 3d6 flamer shots, 12 combi-bolter shots as well. While you are not bring down the entire mob of orks with that, it seems that these could be used to get the numbers down to something more reasonable, and they are cheap, and easy to hide. Plus any shots wasted on the bikes are shots not going into your better units. Just a thought.
I'm actually quite liking this for alpha legion, I know you have to get within 8" for cooking, but seems like a nice harassment unit.
Karnij wrote: The problem i see with Brazen Beasts is that they're a chapter supposedly built around demon engines, yet in GWs stupidity they FAQed it so you can't take a MoP with them, which seems vital to overcoming the flaws with demon engines. And it's not balanced out by anything because again GW decided CSM legion traits should apply only to infantry, unlike almost every other army except loyalist marines.
That was originally the army i was building until the FAQ, so i switched to Hounds of Abaddon so I could have MoP and the warlord trait that seems to be the only way to keep a Discordant alive. I can't see him living past turn 1 any other way.
For just a bunch of berzerkers though, and if you leave the demon engines at home, that trait does seem pretty cool. Whoever mentioned Red Corsairs though, that advance and charge is an interesting idea, could you get away with not having a rhino for each berzerker squad that way you think?
I mean the Lord discordant still exists but it makes neither lore wise sense (you need a Psyker for possesion and or daemonforging) nor gamewise. Best case would've been a exception to the MoP instead of this no psykers at all rule but i guess the daemonkin and daemonforge army can't field psykers.
True that.
What doesn't make lore sense is that a being of pure warp apparently 'hates the warp.' Who's building all those khorne demon engines and binding the demons to them then?
The whole "khorne hates warp" is some of the dumbest lore in the game and seems to be a holdover from 'psychers shoot fireballs and khorne likes to hit things." They really should have made an exception to the MoP for khorne armies. That model even looks very Khornish.
You're right the DIscordant is a little awkward. From a gameplay standpoint i really wish he had 8-9 wounds.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/05/25 16:20:11
What doesn't make lore sense is that a being of pure warp apparently 'hates the warp.' Who's building all those khorne demon engines and binding the demons to them then?
The whole "khorne hates warp" is some of the dumbest lore in the game and seems to be a holdover from 'psychers shoot fireballs and khorne likes to hit things." They really should have made an exception to the MoP for khorne armies. That model even looks very Khornish.
You're right the DIscordant is a little awkward. From a gameplay standpoint i really wish he had 8-9 wounds.
I mean khorne hates sorcery not warp.
As for the LoD, it is a great unit tbh, going great with a slew of legions and renegade warbands, is fast, deadly and comparatively cheap for what it offers. Problem is that you need 2-3 to force the enemy to split up fire and that is about 10-25% off a 2000 pts list. (Not that it is a terrible ammount of points spent, but you still need CP and some screens imo) Also for a propper daemonlist, the regular Codex does not really give us a small enough daemon engine to get the numbers necessary (Decimators though with LoD support)
It also does not help that Dreds and other regular CSM vehicles suffer when around the dude.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/25 16:43:53
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
For a single lord discordant running it with the indomitable trait is really, really good.
Run it as Slaanesh with intoxicating elixir to boost its attacks to S8/S9 and watch it just eat up bullets. Mine ate like 3 volcano lances, got charged by a gallant, and soaked up a bunch of other heavy weapons fire the first time I ran it. It's too deadly and fast to ignore and it's really hard to kill efficiently with the trait. Great unit.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/05/25 21:32:29
slave.entity wrote: For a single lord discordant running it with the indomitable trait is really, really good.
Run it as Slaanesh with intoxicating elixir to boost its attacks to S8/S9 and watch it just eat up bullets. Mine ate like 3 volcano lances, got charged by a gallant, and soaked up a bunch of other heavy weapons fire the first time I ran it. It's too deadly and fast to ignore and it's really hard to kill efficiently with the trait. Great unit.
i at one point was tempted to run a AL lord discordant with the trait that improves W and grants a 6+++, mostly for annoying people.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Had few games at 1k this weekend. With my chaos going 4-0-0. played against eldar, dark angels and a 2v2 against IK+DA vs. Orks+My chaos. "friendly" games with Castellan in one list, teleporting Gorkanauts, Eldar list with 2 ravagers dizzy cannons, two squads of harlequin jetpikes with haywire and a hemlock going all over the place and DA plasma castle.
My takes so far from "newish chaos". Havocs are glasscannon and should be treated such, hide them in deployment. T5 without ablatives are just crap. But in one game I single shotted the castellan T1 with two twin las helbrutes and las havocs squad with endless cacophony, even with rotated shields. Although after EC I threw 6,6,5 on the damage roll. Castellan also died horribly against orks, when his screening failed and Gorkanaut teleported and charged it T1. Recycling the red corsair chaos marines squad with two reaper chaincannons was fun and effective. At 1,5k I think I'll pull two 15-20 man squads with two RCC and three plasma in the other blob. RC advance and charge proved great to have in all of the games. Lord discordant was supprisingly survival in melee and minor shooting, but none can withstand a overcharged, weapons of the dark age plasma cannon devastator volley. Anyways I'm still excited and chaos is fun to play. I think I used endless cacophony more times on my reaper chaos marine squad two throw 32 heavy bolter shots rather than on my havocs. *I hate eldar stratagem denial, totally forgot it in one game and deployed for punishing volley.. to just getting suprised my pants down."
If interested, this friendly all-comers list I used:
Spoiler:
1000 points - 11 CP total Red corsairs batallion - devastation battery (-1cp)
mrtomski wrote: Hi guys, I'm buying up my army now, happy with my unit selections more or less. But one thing I'm still stuck on before I start painting everything.
Black legion or Alpha Legion?
Please help...
Bl got some good toys, allround decent, abbadon, and some nice equipement.
AL got also some nice equipment, profits from -1 to hit >12" away, making them 1/6th more durable at these ranges (in combination with the new bolter beta rule something nice)
(has also some hillarious stackable capacity f.e. when you throw down a miasma spell for an additional -1 to hit, hillariously also for the i am alpharius trait
EDIT: the most annoying durable PA unit is in AL , considering you can field plague marines as an elite choice.)
We would also need to see your unit selection as to determine which trait would be fitting better.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/26 11:34:32
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
AL is a better gunline army. A better small-squad army. Better at fielding a strong centre-piece dread like a Lev (can get to -3 to hit, meaning if you keep him out of melee he'll be alive til the end of the game). They have the best havocs and dreads. They play like a SM legion, good troops that are fairly tough. If you can leverage the minus to hit, and stack it on key units, then they are the most competitive CSM faction, probably.
BL is a better hero-hammer army, with insane access to multiple traits and unique relics. BL is a better horde army, with large units getting multiple buffs, and fearless. BL is a more accurate army, with Abby's top-shelf rerolls. They have the best lord discordants and chaos lords and cultist blobs, and the warmaster himseld, who is one of those rare units that combines an amazing model, amazing rules, amazing fluff and an affordable price point. If you don't like him, don't go BL, basically.
Automatically Appended Next Post: "AL got also some nice equipment, profits from -1 to hit >12" away, making them 1/6th more durable at these ranges"
- Oh yeah, and this isn't true. -1 to hit against guard is not at all 1/6 reduction in damage, it's 1/3.
12 shots at 4+ gives 6 hits, 12 at 5+ gives 4. The difference between taking 6 and 4 hits is 33.3%, not 16.6%.
Similarly, the big thing about this is its combination with other negatives. Dark apostle and nurgle buffs can turn any of your key infantry or dreads -3. At that point your unit can't really be hurt efficiently enough to bother with.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/05/26 17:09:16
Sorry man not my intent. Orks are strong at lower levels is maybe what I should have said. Getting ready for a trip so I'll just post some quick thoughts in the abstract..
Idk what your local meta is but if its hordes then reaper cc is the obvious choice. IMO most TAC lists want a mix of targets for cacophony so you can plan for going 1st or 2nd and reach key targets. This to me says reaper cc havocs, las havocs, oblits. I wouldn't look to handle orks in assault. Rather shoot, screen, shoot counter assault. If orks were giving me problems I'd look to a few counters like these and just off the top of my head:
Screens/anti-assault:
alpha legion- fwd ops- one large unit for board control to push back early assaults. Cultists target gretchin to reduce grot shield impact..
death guard- nurglings- if you don't want to dip into AL. foul BS.
anti horde:
CSM- chain havocs: prescience/votlw/chaos lord.. guaranteed one dead boyz a round maybe two list depending. BC arrays (deredeo, leviathan).
death guard- supporating plate.
counter assault:
CSM- msu zerks, chain lord, DP.
I'll check back later. GL
Great advice, that is basically what I am aiming for: having the cultist and rhino to buy me time, then to use havocs and berzerkers as hammer; Second round the Oblits will basically oneshot 2 vehicles and then as final resource I got the Prince who is really though... my feeling is that I am still missing a lot of units, I got so few wounds compared to Orks, but I find no way to optimize further. I got a game against orks again on Tuesday, fingers crossed.
xeen wrote: Just a suggestion, I know it is not new or sexy, but you can get 3 bikes with 2 flamers and 1 combi-flamer for only 89 points. That is 3d6 flamer shots, 12 combi-bolter shots as well. While you are not bring down the entire mob of orks with that, it seems that these could be used to get the numbers down to something more reasonable, and they are cheap, and easy to hide. Plus any shots wasted on the bikes are shots not going into your better units. Just a thought.
Just to add to this, bikes are one of the most annoying movement blocking units around. They auto advance for a 20" move. 3 of these spaced 2" apart is more then enough to pen in a bonecrusha. Don't forget screening isn't always something you do passively with chaf. I see so many players that gloss over the movement phase. It's the phase that comes first every turn, and like every other edition of 40k, you can exploit the crap out of that against certain armies.
xeen wrote: Just a suggestion, I know it is not new or sexy, but you can get 3 bikes with 2 flamers and 1 combi-flamer for only 89 points. That is 3d6 flamer shots, 12 combi-bolter shots as well. While you are not bring down the entire mob of orks with that, it seems that these could be used to get the numbers down to something more reasonable, and they are cheap, and easy to hide. Plus any shots wasted on the bikes are shots not going into your better units. Just a thought.
Just to add to this, bikes are one of the most annoying movement blocking units around. They auto advance for a 20" move. 3 of these spaced 2" apart is more then enough to pen in a bonecrusha. Don't forget screening isn't always something you do passively with chaf. I see so many players that gloss over the movement phase. It's the phase that comes first every turn, and like every other edition of 40k, you can exploit the crap out of that against certain armies.
Sadly melee bikers aren't all that hot and the models are meh.
Altough i am a firm beliver in a Khorne berzerker on a bike.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
You dont have to charge to block. Actually you won't want to.
Move up 1" away then stop. During their movement phase they have to go around as movement happens before shooting. This can effectively stop an entire flanks advancement up the board. I did something like this in a tournament game a few months ago, using a few rhinos to block a defiler and the 20 cultists around it into a corner. Took them 2 turns to kill the rhinos and then turn 3 finally start moving, but by then it didnt matter because of what happened during those 2 turns.
Is there any place where I can find the 40K rules and point value for the Lord of Khorne on Juggernaut? It's such an awesome model, yet it has nothing in the new CSM codex and the Chaos Index seems to be out of print.
xeen wrote: Just a suggestion, I know it is not new or sexy, but you can get 3 bikes with 2 flamers and 1 combi-flamer for only 89 points. That is 3d6 flamer shots, 12 combi-bolter shots as well. While you are not bring down the entire mob of orks with that, it seems that these could be used to get the numbers down to something more reasonable, and they are cheap, and easy to hide. Plus any shots wasted on the bikes are shots not going into your better units. Just a thought.
Just to add to this, bikes are one of the most annoying movement blocking units around. They auto advance for a 20" move. 3 of these spaced 2" apart is more then enough to pen in a bonecrusha. Don't forget screening isn't always something you do passively with chaf. I see so many players that gloss over the movement phase. It's the phase that comes first every turn, and like every other edition of 40k, you can exploit the crap out of that against certain armies.
Sadly melee bikers aren't all that hot and the models are meh.
Altough i am a firm beliver in a Khorne berzerker on a bike.
Who said anything about melee? You can literally just park 1.1" away and absolutely bone their next turns movement.
xeen wrote: Just a suggestion, I know it is not new or sexy, but you can get 3 bikes with 2 flamers and 1 combi-flamer for only 89 points. That is 3d6 flamer shots, 12 combi-bolter shots as well. While you are not bring down the entire mob of orks with that, it seems that these could be used to get the numbers down to something more reasonable, and they are cheap, and easy to hide. Plus any shots wasted on the bikes are shots not going into your better units. Just a thought.
Just to add to this, bikes are one of the most annoying movement blocking units around. They auto advance for a 20" move. 3 of these spaced 2" apart is more then enough to pen in a bonecrusha. Don't forget screening isn't always something you do passively with chaf. I see so many players that gloss over the movement phase. It's the phase that comes first every turn, and like every other edition of 40k, you can exploit the crap out of that against certain armies.
Sadly melee bikers aren't all that hot and the models are meh.
Altough i am a firm beliver in a Khorne berzerker on a bike.
Who said anything about melee? You can literally just park 1.1" away and absolutely bone their next turns movement.
Thank you, i know that, point was to point out that it is just sad that they suck so hard in melee for a unit that kinda is supposed to be there.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
