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I play Alpha Legion primarily, but want to use Abaddon. The model is too cool. Anyone have tips on how best to use him?

Aux support detachment. Or a BL patrol detachment, this gives you access to BL stratagems.

 p5freak wrote:
Aux support detachment. Or a BL patrol detachment, this gives you access to BL stratagems.

So far my plan is to take him in a patrol with a big blob of cultists.

 Homeskillet wrote:
I play Alpha Legion primarily, but want to use Abaddon. The model is too cool. Anyone have tips on how best to use him?

I think he and BL strats work well with big blobs of possessed. Makes them fearless, he makes them more potent and they're all going in the same direction.

It's a trap to hold him back with a gunline as he is a monster and needs to be chopping up loyalists!

If you run him, 40 possessed, a greater possessed and a master of possession. You could run that with half an Alpha legion gunline for a pretty potent list.

 small_gods wrote:

 Homeskillet wrote:
I play Alpha Legion primarily, but want to use Abaddon. The model is too cool. Anyone have tips on how best to use him?

I think he and BL strats work well with big blobs of possessed. Makes them fearless, he makes them more potent and they're all going in the same direction.

It's a trap to hold him back with a gunline as he is a monster and needs to be chopping up loyalists!

If you run him, 40 possessed, a greater possessed and a master of possession. You could run that with half an Alpha legion gunline for a pretty potent list.

Possessed?
Tbh he is also a nice terminator Lord.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 small_gods wrote:

 Homeskillet wrote:
I play Alpha Legion primarily, but want to use Abaddon. The model is too cool. Anyone have tips on how best to use him?

I think he and BL strats work well with big blobs of possessed. Makes them fearless, he makes them more potent and they're all going in the same direction.

It's a trap to hold him back with a gunline as he is a monster and needs to be chopping up loyalists!

If you run him, 40 possessed, a greater possessed and a master of possession. You could run that with half an Alpha legion gunline for a pretty potent list.

Possessed?
Tbh he is also a nice terminator Lord.

Yeah I had wanted to do a big Terminator squad, but they die so easily right now.

I've seen a lot of tactics for Nurgle and Slaanesh listed, but does anyone have any interesting Tzeentch combos/tactics?

The only one i could think of is an allied thousand sons Mutalith Vortex Beast, it's buffs should effect tzeentch marked daemon engines. Add in a tzeentch herald (or psycher of choice) casting flickering flames on your maulerfiend.
I don't know if that's really worthwhile, but it reads like it would work.

Any other ideas for a Tzeentch marked CSM army?

 Karnij wrote:
I've seen a lot of tactics for Nurgle and Slaanesh listed, but does anyone have any interesting Tzeentch combos/tactics?

The only one i could think of is an allied thousand sons Mutalith Vortex Beast, it's buffs should effect tzeentch marked daemon engines. Add in a tzeentch herald (or psycher of choice) casting flickering flames on your maulerfiend.
I don't know if that's really worthwhile, but it reads like it would work.

Any other ideas for a Tzeentch marked CSM army?

Flickering Flames Obliterators (maybe even Daemonspark as well). Throw in VotLW and you can forget about their strength and reserve a reroll (perhaps from Gaze of Fate) for the guns’ AP and Damage.

Boon of Change Possessed

Changeling giving a bunch of Daemon Engines a 6+++. Could also do that with Possessed and Oblits. Possessed are already an interesting candidate for a gimmicky Fabius Bile list, given their modest capacity to absorb MWs; giving them a guaranteed FNP that works in your movement phase can save you one. Throwing Boon at them as well as the Vigilus stuff can make them pretty scary.

If you’re building a list that has a bunch of Ld attacking stuff, Treason of Tzeentch can get nasty. It also means the Ld gimmick actually has a use against fearless armies - three Night Lords units getting stuck in can give you a modest chance of leashing a Swarmlord (and making it run into charge range of your units; you *can* treat it as if it’s one of your units, but RAW you don’t *have* to. Eat your own Tyrant Guard whilst we punch you, Swarmie).

Rubric Marines that arrive via Termite can stay in it the turn they arrive. That’s a possible way to deliver a flamer Squad.

So with disco lords being amazing, a demon engine lord of war is a potential competitive pick now. I'm caught between the brass scorpion and the Lord of skulls. Does anyone have any opinions on either?

 buddha wrote:
So with disco lords being amazing, a demon engine lord of war is a potential competitive pick now. I'm caught between the brass scorpion and the Lord of skulls. Does anyone have any opinions on either?

Both are strong candidates for a Dark Apostle to give -1 to be hit. Brass Scorpion is pretty good, especially if it spearheads your advance against a psyker-heavy army and you have a Daemons detachment, but LoS can benefit from Warptime and Diabolic Strength to get stuck in T1 and really leverage that reverse-deteriorating A stat, can mow down little stuff, and won’t ever need a negotiation on using FW units.

So, if you’re going pure Khorne, BS brings a useful niche utility, whilst polytheist armies can super-charge the LoS.

On the subject of army synergies: I think both are strong candidates for a Supreme Command Soulforged Pack with a Lord Discordant or two, a Master of the Soulforges Warpsmith, and a Master of Possession to punch some healing out of said Warpsmith. Also, if you’ve got a Decimator, this is good a formation for it.

And, ironically, a Slaanesh Daemons Vanguard to run alongside and get a Fiend into contact with an Infantry unit you’ve piled into.

Hey my dudes, I've been slowly building and tweaking my list over the pas months, and so far you guys have been a great help. Overall I'm pretty solid on my current build, but if you see anything that's obviously terrible or out of place, I'd appreciate the input. I'm trying to straddle the line between being fun and not losing all the time, not intended for tournaments. Cheers.

Red Corsairs Battalion
Huron Blackheart (warlord), death hex or infernal gaze
Terminator Sorcerer w/ relic combi melta, force axe, presience, agonies
3x5 man CSM w/ combi plas, chain axe, chain cannon

Alpha Legion Battalion (1CP for extra relic)
Jump Lord w/ Hydra blade, plas pistol
Slanesh Prince w/ 2x talons, intoxicating elixr, warptime or diabolic strength
3x 10 cultists
2x Hellbrute w/ autocannon, missiles
Defiler w/ autocannon, havok launcher, combi bolter
3x Obliterators (slannesh)
10x Terminators (slannesh), Champ w/ combi flamer + fist, 2x autocannon + chain axe, 7x combi plas + chain axe

2000pts, 17(-1) CP.
Tactics I think are pretty basic. Huron follows CSMs, Lord babysits the hellbrutes and defiler, Sorcerer drops in with the termis and oblits, DP roams where he is needed, cultists for screen. CP spent liberally on VotLW, Cacophony, Fire Frenzy, Demonforge.

If any of this sticks out as being naff, or if you think I should tweak anything, let me know. Cheers dudes.

You have 3 relics in that list, thats -3cp not -1.

Otherwise its a pretty straight forward army list, i am sure it would do fine for what your trying to do.

Azuza001 wrote:
You have 3 relics in that list, thats -3cp not -1.

Otherwise its a pretty straight forward army list, i am sure it would do fine for what your trying to do.

RC warlord trait gives you an extra Relic

Linday is right, I probably should have mentioned that.

I'd drop the brutes and the defiler for 3x contemptors. Don't feel you need the autocannons on the termies.

Use the spare points from both changes to bump cultists to CSM. Add in some of the new chain cannons to the CSM groups.

So a bit of a mind experiment, if you were to run a themeatic undead csm force, built on - to hit, how would you go about it?

Not Online!!! wrote:
So a bit of a mind experiment, if you were to run a themeatic undead csm force, built on - to hit, how would you go about it?

Are we talking ghosts or zombies or skeletons? I saw a Thousand Sons army on parade that had Nighthaunt stuff haunting the armour, that was cool.

You could build something similar with CSM and go with Alpha Legion, saying that the ghosts conceal them from view and narrate the deployment strat as the mists concealing their movements.

You could do it with Crimson Slaughter, their whole fluff thing is they’re being tormented by ghostly spirits and it’s evoked in their traits and strat, the latter being a pretty good one that inflicts minuses to hit, potentially on multiple units.

Miasma can be narrated as a mist (as can the DA prayer), and if you’re going Nurgle there’s marginal synergy with the Icon of Despair and the (IMO terrible) CS War.otrd Trait. Nurgle also opens the door to a DG force bringing zombies to add to the undead jamboree. Who can benefit from MBH cover aura.

The Oblits/Gnarlmaw combo could work for you as well.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
And on a separate matter: Brigades really are dead, aren’t they? In the early days of no traits, I tried bringing a Chaos Brigade. It yielded the same CP as two Battalions and three of Vanguard, Outriders, and Spearhead, only with 3-5 HQ instead of 7-12. Then, traits came along, and a lot of us built DEITY lists with one or two Legions present. Then, detachments got different CP yields, with the result that taking a soup of five detachments yielded *more* CP than the Brigade. Now, we’ve got specialist detachments that mean that even if you’re going mono-Legion, a single brigade isn’t as good as lots of separate detachments.

I’ve been doing up my Dark Imperium and Shadowspear Loyalists as Novamarines, and they’ll pull off a decent Brigade of Indomitus Crusaders, but my Chaos stuff feels like a big game even as a single Legion is going to want at least two, maybe three or four of our specialist detachments. I...actually feel spoiled for choice, in some ways.

 lindsay40k wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
So a bit of a mind experiment, if you were to run a themeatic undead csm force, built on - to hit, how would you go about it?

Are we talking ghosts or zombies or skeletons? I saw a Thousand Sons army on parade that had Nighthaunt stuff haunting the armour, that was cool.

You could build something similar with CSM and go with Alpha Legion, saying that the ghosts conceal them from view and narrate the deployment strat as the mists concealing their movements.

You could do it with Crimson Slaughter, their whole fluff thing is they’re being tormented by ghostly spirits and it’s evoked in their traits and strat, the latter being a pretty good one that inflicts minuses to hit, potentially on multiple units.

Miasma can be narrated as a mist (as can the DA prayer), and if you’re going Nurgle there’s marginal synergy with the Icon of Despair and the (IMO terrible) CS War.otrd Trait. Nurgle also opens the door to a DG force bringing zombies to add to the undead jamboree. Who can benefit from MBH cover aura.

The Oblits/Gnarlmaw combo could work for you as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Brigades really are dead, aren’t they? In the early days of no traits, I tried bringing a Chaos Brigade. It yielded the same CP as two Battalions and three of Vanguard, Outriders, and Spearhead, only with 3-5 HQ instead of 7-12. Then, traits came along, and a lot of us built DEITY lists with one or two Legions present. Then, detachments got different CP yields, with the result that taking a soup of five detachments yielded *more* CP the Brigade. Now, we’ve got specialist detachments that mean that even in you’re going mono-Legion, a single brigade isn’t as good as lots of separate detachments.

I’ve been doing up my Dark Imperium and Shadowspear Loyalists as Novamarines, and they’ll pull off a decent Brigade of Indomitus Crusaders, but my Chaos stuff feels like a big game as a single Legion is going to want at least two, maybe three or four of our specialist detachments. I...actually feel spoiled for choice, in some ways.

Ghosts actually, as for brigades a RC brigade nets 15 cp two battalions net 16cp. Without the need to field subpar tax units.
The only place i'd ever run a brigade would be my renegades and heretics and even there a double battalion is the better option.

Well, AL and CS both seem pretty appropriate. CS Trait isn’t as good as RedCor one giving guaranteed CP up front, but it’s explicitly characterful. If the marines are themselves ghosts, then TS or AL (or, perhaps, NL) are slightly more thematic.

 lindsay40k wrote:
Well, AL and CS both seem pretty appropriate. CS Trait isn’t as good as RedCor one giving guaranteed CP up front, but it’s explicitly characterful. If the marines are themselves ghosts, then TS or AL (or, perhaps, NL) are slightly more thematic.

So far tought of AL, stacking with the -1 to hit from DA.

The DA, well this thing
Will be Necromancers of some sort:

So far i consider the following:
DA

2x10 CSM each with a missile launcher
20 Cultists (Poxwalker zombie ghosts)

(500) on a hole)

As Elites i toyed around with plague marines, converted out of the AoS ghosts and marines run as plague marines or possesed. (probably better to pick plague marines)

Hi I'm thinking of expanding into death guard just because they have some great looking units. Obviously they will be allied into my black legion force which to be honest is pretty rounded right now.
Does anyone have any recommendations? My thoughts when I was originally contemplating this was going for a DG battalion as their troops are probably superior to CSM although I've been getting much more mileage out of 5 man units with Chaincannons lately.
I really like plague burst crawlers and bloat drones, obviously I'm only really looking at DG exclusive models.
Anybody recommend a simple battalion to ally in and what synergy I can exploit between DG and Black Legion?
The crawlers will give me good long range cover and the majority of the DG infantry are robust and strong at mid range so I'm thinking maybe faster glass cannon BL units might be a good blend. Maybe bikes and berserkers? What synergy can I get going with master of possession and nurgle marked possessed?

I'm also wondering if I should use a DG detachment to counter my friends list, having hard time making any workable against his:



Only counter I think is red corsair hordes, but then I can't compete with objectives.. from death guard I could get more resilient units, but the firepower and mobility feels just too overwhelming. And that stupid deny opponent strat is hard on RC, if you get denied three turns a row either RC recycle or endless cacophony.. Any ideas how to approach that particular list?

Xirax wrote:
I'm also wondering if I should use a DG detachment to counter my friends list, having hard time making any workable against his:

Spoiler:

His list is about like:

Drukhari batallion Kabal of black heart

2x archon

3x kabalite warriors

3x ravagers, 3x dizzy cannons

Airwing detachment

2x jetfighters, 2x dizzy cannons
1x voidraven, lances, missiles

Harlie outrider

Shadowseer

3x 2man skyweavers, haywire, zephyr glaives

Only counter I think is red corsair hordes, but then I can't compete with objectives.. from death guard I could get more resilient units, but the firepower and mobility feels just too overwhelming. And that stupid deny opponent strat is hard on RC, if you get denied three turns a row either RC recycle or endless cacophony.. Any ideas how to approach that particular list?

Alternatively i can offer 3 things really if you regard FW as an option:
A: Get yourself a renegade commander and 3 hydra AA tanks, clocks in at 304 pts.
B: Sicarian
C: Hellblade

If not, equipp some CSm squads with Missile launchers for the Flakk missile stratagem, consider a DA with +1?, Use a blob of cultists aswell, so he can't deny all recycling?
Autocannon havocs might help? Might.

Anybody got a picture of the new terminators alongside the old ones? Do they fit in okay if you had a mixed squad or do the new ones tower over the old?
Tempted to pick up a box just because they look great but they're probably not gonna see much table time anyway...

Abaddon303 wrote:
Anybody got a picture of the new terminators alongside the old ones? Do they fit in okay if you had a mixed squad or do the new ones tower over the old?
Tempted to pick up a box just because they look great but they're probably not gonna see much table time anyway...

Don't have a picture, but I can tell you they are around roughly the same height but the newer ones are much beefier in terms of mass. I don't think mine look too out of place next to the newer ones but you might have your own opinion.

Yup, the new ones are thicc.

For my Khornate battalion, should I go with Crimson Slaughter or World Eaters? I'm thinking of running two units of Khorne-marked CSM and a unit of berserkers, with Kharn as one of the HQ's.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
For my Khornate battalion, should I go with Crimson Slaughter or World Eaters? I'm thinking of running two units of Khorne-marked CSM and a unit of berserkers, with Kharn as one of the HQ's.

Well, for that to be a CS Battalion, you’d have to drop Kharn and add another Troops unit

What's the best way for building a DP as part of a Red Corsairs List? I've been going for Malefic Talons with Intoxicating Elixir, but in terms of Warlord Trait and Psychic Power I'm not sure what to go for.

 blood reaper wrote:
What's the best way for building a DP as part of a Red Corsairs List? I've been going for Malefic Talons with Intoxicating Elixir, but in terms of Warlord Trait and Psychic Power I'm not sure what to go for.

Depends on the rest of your list.

If you’ve got plenty of psykers, or are about to tango with a Knight, self-casting Diabolic Strength can be good. If you’re planning to Boromir something with a solid invuln, Death Hex can be good. If you’re low on psykers, Warptime makes a lot of sense.

Exalted Champion and Flames of Spite are both strong and perhaps more dependent on your opponent than your list. If your planned main victim has an odd number of wounds, FoS can pip you over - and it helps bypass invuln. EC is a bit more multi-purpose and reliable. Reaver Lord I can see working in a list containing someone who’ll benefit from the extra Relic (Maelstrom’s Bite, Chiropteran Wings, Murder Sword, and Daemon’s Eye mainly come to mind there), and especially with a Heldrake or two (and perhaps some Daemons of Slaanesh) that join your Warptimed DP to shake some extra attacks out of some unfortunate Lieutenant and survive the backlash.