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I would think for Alpha Legion you'd rather have shooty Helbrutes to sit back and take advantage of the -1 to be hit. For running Zangiefbrutes, I'd rather have World Eaters (+1 attack on charge) or Red Corsairs (Advance + Charge).

Incidentally @Homeskillet, how did that list perform? I think it's a pretty interesting one actually. What did it struggle against (or did it crush all who dared oppose it?)?

Ok so I'm just painting up my alpha legion and wondering the best way to run them.

I'm thinking of some little tricks etc and had a think about chosen, using the alpha legion stratagem you could put a 5 man chosen squad up close to the enemy with 4 meltas or 4 plasma etc and just blast a tough target, obviously they would die straight after but it could work??

Rogerio134134 wrote:
Ok so I'm just painting up my alpha legion and wondering the best way to run them.

I'm thinking of some little tricks etc and had a think about chosen, using the alpha legion stratagem you could put a 5 man chosen squad up close to the enemy with 4 meltas or 4 plasma etc and just blast a tough target, obviously they would die straight after but it could work??

The stratagem got nerfed in a faq, it's now just a pregame movement.

Meltas are worse then plasma also for that matter ust points wise.

cultists, whilest fluffy for AL, are not good for AL, ironically. (you could go with R&H and a bunch of marauders for that sniping agent operatives feel)

 Homeskillet wrote:
I just played a fun "Monster Mash" list this weekend, thought I'd share. I used: an Alpha Legion Battalion consisting of a Demon Prince of Slaanesh, Biker Sorcerer (Warptime and Miasma of Pestilence), a Lord Discordant, 26 cultists, 2 x 5 CSMs, a Blood Slaughterer of Khorne, and 2 Maulerfiends; I made that a Soulforged Pack. I also took an Alpha Legion Vanguard with a Warpsmith and 3 Helbrutes with Fists/Scourges. Last, I took a patrol of Abaddon and 30 cultists. We played ITC and I think the army doesn't give up kills very easily, and is still very fast to get Objectives. It causes a lot of target priority confusion, since everything is pretty nasty in combat.

Hmmm, I don't know about not giving up kills easily. A hellbrute is actually pretty flimsy, even with the -1 to hit alpha legion trait. Two lucky lascannon hits and its likely to be toast. Same goes for an Alpha legion Lord Discodant. Again, once opponent gets past the -1 to hit, he is only T6, 12 W. And I have seen Maulerfiends go down easily too. It all depends on how lucky you are with its 5+ invul saves. Plus this is a melee army. You are closing the distance so you will be within the 12 inch range soon after which the -1 to hit won't help you. Well, it does look like a fun thematic army. Let us know how it goes.

Eldenfirefly wrote:

 Homeskillet wrote:
I just played a fun "Monster Mash" list this weekend, thought I'd share. I used: an Alpha Legion Battalion consisting of a Demon Prince of Slaanesh, Biker Sorcerer (Warptime and Miasma of Pestilence), a Lord Discordant, 26 cultists, 2 x 5 CSMs, a Blood Slaughterer of Khorne, and 2 Maulerfiends; I made that a Soulforged Pack. I also took an Alpha Legion Vanguard with a Warpsmith and 3 Helbrutes with Fists/Scourges. Last, I took a patrol of Abaddon and 30 cultists. We played ITC and I think the army doesn't give up kills very easily, and is still very fast to get Objectives. It causes a lot of target priority confusion, since everything is pretty nasty in combat.

Hmmm, I don't know about not giving up kills easily. A hellbrute is actually pretty flimsy, even with the -1 to hit alpha legion trait. Two lucky lascannon hits and its likely to be toast. Same goes for an Alpha legion Lord Discodant. Again, once opponent gets past the -1 to hit, he is only T6, 12 W. And I have seen Maulerfiends go down easily too. It all depends on how lucky you are with its 5+ invul saves. Plus this is a melee army. You are closing the distance so you will be within the 12 inch range soon after which the -1 to hit won't help you. Well, it does look like a fun thematic army. Let us know how it goes.

Everything dies easy in 8th!!

Pappa Nurgle, Alaitoc flyboys and the Greater Good say 'hi'!

 grouchoben wrote:
Pappa Nurgle, Alaitoc flyboys and the Greater Good say 'hi'!

I guess his point was more that -most- things die easy in 8th, unless you happen to pick one of the few cheesy units/combos that are particularly annoying.

If you play in tournaments, then you need to play cheese vs cheese. But if you play with normal folks who aren't tfg, then a table full of daemon engines and brutes are likely to be fairly nasty I would think. ymmv i suppose.

With renegade knights codex coming out. It looks like a lot of people will be adding renegades knights to chaos soup. They get so many more toys compared to a LOS or a kytan ravager. Even 1 Knight Tyrant (Valiant) is going to be devastating with those new stuff they are going to get in the new codex. And apparently, the twin avenger gatling knight is still going to be there for renegade knights.

LOS or Kytan ravager gets only a few tricks and strategems for chaos while renegade knights have a whole book of tricks and stuff dedicated to buffing a knight. So, its obviously better.

I don't know about that. We will have to see what is up said Knightley sleeves but there are a lot of tricks you can pull with a los. +1 to invulnerable, +1 to hit rolls, wounds of 6 generate additonal hits, reroll charges, -1 to hit, +1 attack and +2 strength in melee, double move... i could go on but i think i have made my point. Its all about setting up that combo when you build the list that determines what your los can do.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I would think for Alpha Legion you'd rather have shooty Helbrutes to sit back and take advantage of the -1 to be hit. For running Zangiefbrutes, I'd rather have World Eaters (+1 attack on charge) or Red Corsairs (Advance + Charge).

Incidentally @Homeskillet, how did that list perform? I think it's a pretty interesting one actually. What did it struggle against (or did it crush all who dared oppose it?)?

Yeah I think if you were to min/max, Red Corsair punchy Helbrutes would be awesome. However, I mainly play Alpha Legion when I'm going Chaos, and just sprinkle in a little of another Legion here and there. Despite my thoughts of the Red Corsairs being better, I did give my Helbrutes Mark of Nurgle, so that I could make at least one of them extra hard to hit with Miasma of Pestilence while they bumrushed enemy lines.

The list did really well, faced against Salamanders using a bunch of Melta and (oddly) Grav Guns. I've only played one game with the list so far; it was just a test run using all my newly built stuff. The Helbrutes struggled against a large group of Thunderhammer/Stormshield Terminators, but got relieved from a charging Abaddon and Demon Prince.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eldenfirefly wrote:

 Homeskillet wrote:
I just played a fun "Monster Mash" list this weekend, thought I'd share. I used: an Alpha Legion Battalion consisting of a Demon Prince of Slaanesh, Biker Sorcerer (Warptime and Miasma of Pestilence), a Lord Discordant, 26 cultists, 2 x 5 CSMs, a Blood Slaughterer of Khorne, and 2 Maulerfiends; I made that a Soulforged Pack. I also took an Alpha Legion Vanguard with a Warpsmith and 3 Helbrutes with Fists/Scourges. Last, I took a patrol of Abaddon and 30 cultists. We played ITC and I think the army doesn't give up kills very easily, and is still very fast to get Objectives. It causes a lot of target priority confusion, since everything is pretty nasty in combat.

Hmmm, I don't know about not giving up kills easily. A hellbrute is actually pretty flimsy, even with the -1 to hit alpha legion trait. Two lucky lascannon hits and its likely to be toast. Same goes for an Alpha legion Lord Discodant. Again, once opponent gets past the -1 to hit, he is only T6, 12 W. And I have seen Maulerfiends go down easily too. It all depends on how lucky you are with its 5+ invul saves. Plus this is a melee army. You are closing the distance so you will be within the 12 inch range soon after which the -1 to hit won't help you. Well, it does look like a fun thematic army. Let us know how it goes.

Actually 2 lucky Lascannon hits by the average won't kill a Helbrute off. And they actually have to hit at the -1, then wound. So, they're surprisingly durable. Plus I Mark of Nurgled them so the Sorcerer could Miasma one, typically whoever gets out in front of the pack to the priority target. I get your point though, and it is definitely valid: nothing in the list (besides Abaddon) is ridiculously tough. However, that's kind of the fun of it; everything is decently tough, and can hit pretty hard in combat. So it creates target priority problems for the opponent. I'm not saying to watch for this at the next GT, I'm just saying it was fun to play!

So I'm back after a long hiatus, with a barebones plan of the models I have / am making, and was wondering if there were any tips on which warband / options I'd be good to look into?

CSM:
Lord Discordant
Maulerfiend
WiP Infernal Flamestorm Predator
- possibly Oblits
- possibly Helbrutes or FW bots like Contemptors

Daemons:
Skullreaver Daemon Prince (Could be soulstealer/corruption)
... I like Exalted Flamers, and Nurglings, but that leads to a fairly mixed detachment.


Figured the new Soulforged Pack rule might be worth working towards, though will need at least one more big gribbly to run with the discordant.

Thinking Alpha Legion (for survivability) or Renegades (Corsairs, for the advance+charge), might be the best available options? (Edit: Flawless Host is also an option, might work well for the Lord Disco in particular, as well as scourge brutes maybe..)

I know it's fairly vague, I'm just trying to get an idea of what to plan for as I go.

Niiru wrote:
So I'm back after a long hiatus, with a barebones plan of the models I have / am making, and was wondering if there were any tips on which warband / options I'd be good to look into?

CSM:
Lord Discordant
Maulerfiend
WiP Infernal Flamestorm Predator
- possibly Oblits
- possibly Helbrutes or FW bots like Contemptors

Daemons:
Skullreaver Daemon Prince (Could be soulstealer/corruption)
... I like Exalted Flamers, and Nurglings, but that leads to a fairly mixed detachment.


Figured the new Soulforged Pack rule might be worth working towards, though will need at least one more big gribbly to run with the discordant.

Thinking Alpha Legion (for survivability) or Renegades (Corsairs, for the advance+charge), might be the best available options? (Edit: Flawless Host is also an option, might work well for the Lord Disco in particular, as well as scourge brutes maybe..)

I know it's fairly vague, I'm just trying to get an idea of what to plan for as I go.

Another Lord discordant, mostly because 1 will not survive if you don't go BL with the half damage trait.
Also the traits STILL don't affect Daemonengines beyond the Lord discordant, but imo the lord discroant is the best daemonengine we got.

I'd go for Red corsairs though mostly for beeing able to avoid CP spendin on Lord discordants for the charge aswell as beeing able to just throw down 15 CSM and gaining 8 CP for that aswell.

Not Online!!! wrote:

Niiru wrote:
So I'm back after a long hiatus, with a barebones plan of the models I have / am making, and was wondering if there were any tips on which warband / options I'd be good to look into?

CSM:
Lord Discordant
Maulerfiend
WiP Infernal Flamestorm Predator
- possibly Oblits
- possibly Helbrutes or FW bots like Contemptors

Daemons:
Skullreaver Daemon Prince (Could be soulstealer/corruption)
... I like Exalted Flamers, and Nurglings, but that leads to a fairly mixed detachment.


Figured the new Soulforged Pack rule might be worth working towards, though will need at least one more big gribbly to run with the discordant.

Thinking Alpha Legion (for survivability) or Renegades (Corsairs, for the advance+charge), might be the best available options? (Edit: Flawless Host is also an option, might work well for the Lord Disco in particular, as well as scourge brutes maybe..)

I know it's fairly vague, I'm just trying to get an idea of what to plan for as I go.

Another Lord discordant, mostly because 1 will not survive if you don't go BL with the half damage trait.
Also the traits STILL don't affect Daemonengines beyond the Lord discordant, but imo the lord discroant is the best daemonengine we got.

I'd go for Red corsairs though mostly for beeing able to avoid CP spendin on Lord discordants for the charge aswell as beeing able to just throw down 15 CSM and gaining 8 CP for that aswell.

Yeh true, maybe I will convert my maulerfiend into a second lord discordant haha...

I need you dakka!

We are playing four ways on saturday and I need your help to choose my army. I will be against IK with Castellan, crusader and two helverins.. then a drukhari flyer spam and ad mech gunline.

My initial idea is I want to test what can a rhino filled with lord and reaper chaincannon havocs do, so I came up with this:



..but then I realised that if I want to give my RCC havocs the reroll 1's I can't give rerolls to my gunline because Huron doesn't buff Alpha legion. Ok, my plan B would be just change the Alpha legion into Red corsairs, but the -1 to hit is tempting. So I'm thinking a plan C already. Would appreciate some help here to choose.

Plan C:


This would make Huron go with the RCC Havocs and I would lose 2nd helbrute and 2nd RC recycle marine squad.. but I would have both gunlines with reroll 1's.. so any help?

@Xirax - what’s the scenario? Four player games can go a lot of ways. My usual multiplayer games are Maelstrom, we usually get a big table and my usual approach is to take a Raptor Talon, a lot of Nurglings, and a robust gunline based on screen and tough gunners that can shoot on the move. Start the game with a few objectives, hold the home base as long as possible, and do a deep strike attack against a key target of opportunity. But this is way different from holding specific objectives as long as possible, trying to kill as many units as possible, etc.

Whichever way we play, I never try mechanised deathstars. Everyone with an aversion to getting punched by Chaos lord’s and Berzerkers shoots my rhinos up, it’s like fighting three armies at once. Be the quiet one with a well protected sword.

@Lindsay: Sorry for my english, it's three 1v1 sepparate games this time, usually we end on 2v2 or 3v3, but this time we just play round robin. We also play CA19 maelstorm.

Is there any use for a single obliterator? I only ask because I'm thinking of converting up a model (could do 3), but running 3 of them would eat up 345 points which is a sizeable part of my budget.

I'm attempting to come up with a 'zilla list, with lord discordant, prince, maulerfiend, and I'm not yet sure what else.

Was considering using some barebones Terminators for my 'troops', and I can get 10 of those for less than the cost of 3 oblits. But if I get 3xoblits I think I'll be out of points.

Also considering a 'host raptorial' warp talons strike force. Raptors might be better, not too sure on this atm.

(Basically everything in the list is either a monster, or can teleport)

I used to use solo oblits alot back in earlier editions.

Suicide drop is always a good thing to have in your back pocket. Usually just knowing your opponent has a unit able to deepstrike will make you change your deployment options.

I think Purge Oblits could be useful to finish off any already wounded vehicles/units.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I used to use solo oblits alot back in earlier editions.

Suicide drop is always a good thing to have in your back pocket. Usually just knowing your opponent has a unit able to deepstrike will make you change your deployment options.

I think Purge Oblits could be useful to finish off any already wounded vehicles/units.

Well Purge or scourged imo.
But a purged Mini reroll Monster is nice.

I just started building up a CSM army (I've been collecting the models off and on for years now). With the new dex out and vigilus book I figured I'd take the plunge so I started watching youtube vids about CSM and one of them mentioned a chaos lord on a bike which happens to be a model I have (from back in 6th). I flipped through the book but I don't see that as an option - just jump packs. Where is everyone else seeing a bike as an option?

 necron99 wrote:
I just started building up a CSM army (I've been collecting the models off and on for years now). With the new dex out and vigilus book I figured I'd take the plunge so I started watching youtube vids about CSM and one of them mentioned a chaos lord on a bike which happens to be a model I have (from back in 6th). I flipped through the book but I don't see that as an option - just jump packs. Where is everyone else seeing a bike as an option?

Index Chaos option.

Eldenfirefly wrote:

 Homeskillet wrote:
I just played a fun "Monster Mash" list this weekend, thought I'd share. I used: an Alpha Legion Battalion consisting of a Demon Prince of Slaanesh, Biker Sorcerer (Warptime and Miasma of Pestilence), a Lord Discordant, 26 cultists, 2 x 5 CSMs, a Blood Slaughterer of Khorne, and 2 Maulerfiends; I made that a Soulforged Pack. I also took an Alpha Legion Vanguard with a Warpsmith and 3 Helbrutes with Fists/Scourges. Last, I took a patrol of Abaddon and 30 cultists. We played ITC and I think the army doesn't give up kills very easily, and is still very fast to get Objectives. It causes a lot of target priority confusion, since everything is pretty nasty in combat.

Hmmm, I don't know about not giving up kills easily. A hellbrute is actually pretty flimsy, even with the -1 to hit alpha legion trait. Two lucky lascannon hits and its likely to be toast. Same goes for an Alpha legion Lord Discodant. Again, once opponent gets past the -1 to hit, he is only T6, 12 W. And I have seen Maulerfiends go down easily too. It all depends on how lucky you are with its 5+ invul saves. Plus this is a melee army. You are closing the distance so you will be within the 12 inch range soon after which the -1 to hit won't help you. Well, it does look like a fun thematic army. Let us know how it goes.

Or a squad of hellblasters and it's toast.

Nightlord1987 wrote:I used to use solo oblits alot back in earlier editions.

Suicide drop is always a good thing to have in your back pocket. Usually just knowing your opponent has a unit able to deepstrike will make you change your deployment options.

I think Purge Oblits could be useful to finish off any already wounded vehicles/units.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I used to use solo oblits alot back in earlier editions.

Suicide drop is always a good thing to have in your back pocket. Usually just knowing your opponent has a unit able to deepstrike will make you change your deployment options.

I think Purge Oblits could be useful to finish off any already wounded vehicles/units.

Well Purge or scourged imo.
But a purged Mini reroll Monster is nice.

So the consensus seems to be that solo Purge Oblits are not a terrible idea?

The points debate for it would be whether it would be better to have a deepstriking Oblit, vs a Helbrute with Scourge and Autocannon (which works out at basically the same price).

Slightly different jobs I know, but it seems like the helbrute would be a bigger damage sponge, while the oblit is fragile, but the oblit can jump in and torch something while the helbrute might well die before it gets anywhere. Not sure which is the better damage output...

Not really, overall i deem an 90 pts helbrute with missile and reaper cannon a better investment for the purge. But the oblit is a nice ace in your sleeve.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Not really, overall i deem an 90 pts helbrute with missile and reaper cannon a better investment for the purge. But the oblit is a nice ace in your sleeve.

I'm not a fan of long-range shooty helbrutes... If I'm parking something to sit still and shoot across the board, Havocs seem to do the job better.

But I generally prefer a more ... mobile army. If I had a helbrute, it would have a scourge, and it would be running into peoples faces.

Niiru wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Not really, overall i deem an 90 pts helbrute with missile and reaper cannon a better investment for the purge. But the oblit is a nice ace in your sleeve.

I'm not a fan of long-range shooty helbrutes... If I'm parking something to sit still and shoot across the board, Havocs seem to do the job better.

But I generally prefer a more ... mobile army. If I had a helbrute, it would have a scourge, and it would be running into peoples faces.

Blasphemy i say then, under two scourges per hellbrute!

Not Online!!! wrote:

Niiru wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Not really, overall i deem an 90 pts helbrute with missile and reaper cannon a better investment for the purge. But the oblit is a nice ace in your sleeve.

I'm not a fan of long-range shooty helbrutes... If I'm parking something to sit still and shoot across the board, Havocs seem to do the job better.

But I generally prefer a more ... mobile army. If I had a helbrute, it would have a scourge, and it would be running into peoples faces.

Blasphemy i say then, under two scourges per hellbrute!

I would usually go for scourge + fist, or scourge + autocannon if I wanted to go hybrid.

Either way it works out cheaper than a single Obliterator, which is where my dilemma comes in. My conversion would actually probably work either way, a little tweaking on the sizing and it'd be helbrute sized instead of obliterator sized. I guess I just wanted to know which of the two is the most cost-effective and generally good at murdering these days.

3x oblits seem to have the edge mainly because you can spend stratagems on them, which you can't do (effectievly) on a single obliterator or a helbrute...?

if you need a flexible unit or two the 1 drop oblits just beat the hellbrute.

If you don't need it and just want a good unit then the hellbrute beats the oblit often.

Not Online!!! wrote:
if you need a flexible unit or two the 1 drop oblits just beat the hellbrute.

If you don't need it and just want a good unit then the hellbrute beats the oblit often.

Also considering a Purge Flamestorm Predator. Helbrute might be more points efficient, but Flamestorm + 2x heavy flamers being fired into a melee combat just feels ... right. Still looking to see if I can do something similar but better with a contemptor/brute/other

That flamestorm combo sounds incredible! Don’t forget to throw in a combi-flamer