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 Rydria wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

macluvin wrote:
Are terminators playable yet?

You can keep them "cheap" with combibolter and chainaxe. Use 10 slaanesh termis with a JP sorcerer and prescience, votlw and endless cacophony. Add a JP chaos lord to re-roll 1s to hit. Thats 80 shots hitting on 2s, re-rolling 1s, +1 to wound. Or go with combiplasma and the same two HQs, thats 40 overcharged plasma shots, hitting on 2s, re-rolling 1s, +1 to wound.

Emperor's Children Terminators could be scary from deep strike praise the prince stratagem is really strong, though I'm kind of hyped for host Raptorial emperor's children warp talons, they have a guaranteed 9 inch charge out of deep strike which puts them in direct competition with the terminators.

The eternal question-why not both?

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Rydria wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

macluvin wrote:
Are terminators playable yet?

You can keep them "cheap" with combibolter and chainaxe. Use 10 slaanesh termis with a JP sorcerer and prescience, votlw and endless cacophony. Add a JP chaos lord to re-roll 1s to hit. Thats 80 shots hitting on 2s, re-rolling 1s, +1 to wound. Or go with combiplasma and the same two HQs, thats 40 overcharged plasma shots, hitting on 2s, re-rolling 1s, +1 to wound.

Emperor's Children Terminators could be scary from deep strike praise the prince stratagem is really strong, though I'm kind of hyped for host Raptorial emperor's children warp talons, they have a guaranteed 9 inch charge out of deep strike which puts them in direct competition with the terminators.

The eternal question-why not both?

In this case, the problem would be that you could only do one or the other on turn 2. The other unit would have to wait until turn 3.

This isn't a problem for my Night Lords Warp Talons and Emp.children Terminators though. Turn 2 is going to be a blender.

Sorry, warp talons are still overpriced. 19 ppm for a T4 W1 model is ridiculous Same with raptors at 15 ppm, which are just CSM with JP.

So cultists now 4ppm with CA but without the ability to VOTLW seem like garbage???? Thoughts? Is abby actually useful in competitive now (ITC/ETC)? Seems like garbage even with the points reductions, not sure the use of a 30 man cultist blob to be honest

orkswubwub wrote:
So cultists now 4ppm with CA but without the ability to VOTLW seem like garbage???? Thoughts? Is abby actually useful in competitive now (ITC/ETC)? Seems like garbage even with the points reductions, not sure the use of a 30 man cultist blob to be honest

I would say their use in large blobs is for alpha legion and iron warriors protection stratagems.

Otherwise cheap trips for non Corsairs lists

So the new iron warrior WL trait which let's deamon engines get extra hits on 6s...

Wondering how strong it is, I'm assuming due to the wording +1 hit doesnt make it go off on a 5 (real shame).

I've got a number of deamon engines and thinking an iron warrior deamon engine gun line could be a thing. You could make them all khrone and ally some deamons for the crimson crown giving hits on wounds of 6s. Supported by cursed earth and a couple of warp smiths to heal could be solid...

mrtomski wrote:
So the new iron warrior WL trait which let's deamon engines get extra hits on 6s...

Wondering how strong it is, I'm assuming due to the wording +1 hit doesnt make it go off on a 5 (real shame).

I've got a number of deamon engines and thinking an iron warrior deamon engine gun line could be a thing. You could make them all khrone and ally some deamons for the crimson crown giving hits on wounds of 6s. Supported by cursed earth and a couple of warp smiths to heal could be solid...

Melee or gun?

Assuming that, a MoP, Warpsmith and 1 Discordant and a lord.

You could get reroll 1's, 4++, Heal d3 and 3 aswell as +1 to hit.
That would cost 74+ 60 + 80 + 160.
374 pts for support if you intend to cut the discordant 160 you'd get away with 214 pts.
Assuming that, considering the general pricedrops on Daemonengines, making forgefiends cheaper by 20 (i belive) would make it quite interesting. 2 Hades AC forgefiends generate 5 hits that way. (without the reroll 1.)
A dakka defieler at it's new pricepoint is also something that you could consider. The ammount of additional firepower gained might make it usefull and as a added benefit can defend the castle.
Otoh, the one of the best candidates raw firepower wise, would probably be a decimator with twin butchers , for 130 pts.

Add 240 pts in cultists, and you get 2 battalions.

So you'd have a
Lord
MoP
3x 10 cultists.

Lord discordant
Warpsmith
3x10 Cultists.

For a total of 614 pts in as the skeleton for such a list.

You could then proceed to add Daemonengines to your hearts content.

A twin butcher decimator will score 1 additional hit, wow

 p5freak wrote:
A twin butcher decimator will score 1 additional hit, wow

7 hits. S8 Ap-1 d2 for 130 pts isn't bad.
Especially for the price point, but humor me, what Daemonengine would you pick then instead?

Not Online!!! wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
A twin butcher decimator will score 1 additional hit, wow

7 hits. S8 Ap-1 d2 for 130 pts isn't bad.
Especially for the price point, but humor me, what Daemonengine would you pick then instead?

This is not about daemon engines, this is about the IW warlord trait which gives additional hits on an unmodified roll of 6, which is pretty much useless. As for daemon engines, i like venomcrawlers. And i play them with a herald of slaanesh to allow them charging after advancing, or with a herald of tzeentch, to give them flickering flames/boon of change, and S+1.

 p5freak wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
A twin butcher decimator will score 1 additional hit, wow

7 hits. S8 Ap-1 d2 for 130 pts isn't bad.
Especially for the price point, but humor me, what Daemonengine would you pick then instead?

This is not about daemon engines, this is about the IW warlord trait which gives additional hits on an unmodified roll of 6, which is pretty much useless. As for daemon engines, i like venomcrawlers. And i play them with a herald of slaanesh to allow them charging after advancing, or with a herald of tzeentch, to give them flickering flames/boon of change, and S+1.

Until you drop a Lord along 3 Slaanesh Oblits and press the Big Red Button with Endless Cacophony an Rampant Techno-virus. Then you get 6 additional auto-hits with Fleshmetal Guns with rerollable S/AP/D.

Well I have a kytan and a few defilers at the moment (plus all needed hqs). Probably going to turn the kytan into a lord of skulls since kytan is sadly still 410.

Having tried the melee deamon engines with limited success im thinking of trying a moving castle style. Just think about how nice dthfe is, getting that on shooting for the engines will add up over the game. I guess the wording also means the 6s aren't impacted by -1 to hit as well?

Nice the decimators seopped 10 points, my issue with them is 8 wounds is not enough, dakka fiend with 12 for 140 seems safer


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well I have a kytan and a few defilers at the moment (plus all needed hqs). Probably going to turn the kytan into a lord of skulls since kytan is sadly still 410.

Having tried the melee deamon engines with limited success im thinking of trying a moving castle style. Just think about how nice dthfe is, getting that on shooting for the engines will add up over the game. I guess the wording also means the 6s aren't impacted by -1 to hit as well?

Nice the decimators seopped 10 points, my issue with them is 8 wounds is not enough, dakka fiend with 12 for 140 seems safer

Decimators have bs 3+ though and are cheaper.
And both die rather easily if your opponent wants them too.


.

Pandabeer wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
A twin butcher decimator will score 1 additional hit, wow

7 hits. S8 Ap-1 d2 for 130 pts isn't bad.
Especially for the price point, but humor me, what Daemonengine would you pick then instead?

This is not about daemon engines, this is about the IW warlord trait which gives additional hits on an unmodified roll of 6, which is pretty much useless. As for daemon engines, i like venomcrawlers. And i play them with a herald of slaanesh to allow them charging after advancing, or with a herald of tzeentch, to give them flickering flames/boon of change, and S+1.

Until you drop a Lord along 3 Slaanesh Oblits and press the Big Red Button with Endless Cacophony an Rampant Techno-virus. Then you get 6 additional auto-hits with Fleshmetal Guns with rerollable S/AP/D.

Don't forget they can also potentially have re-roll to wounds and +1 to wound. Also those 6's work in overwatch and CC giving demonsmith even more utility. This trait is a darkhorse candidate for best in the book IMO. Looks kinda of underwhelming at first glance, but becomes better and better when you apply it to many in game situations.

Pandabeer wrote:

Until you drop a Lord along 3 Slaanesh Oblits and press the Big Red Button with Endless Cacophony an Rampant Techno-virus. Then you get 6 additional auto-hits with Fleshmetal Guns with rerollable S/AP/D.

Woooow, 6 additional hits for 3 CP

I doubt between starting a Tau army or chaos marines.

What do you think about those changes? Do you recommend the start collecting boxes/battleforces/chrismas boxes?

Seems like CSM works better now, I would like to play them since they look cool as feth, I like alpha legion.

I'm looking an army with more options than orks (charge like crazy and shoot lootas, that's the only meta) I think chaos give me more resources for facing the battle, melee/speed/heavy/shoots...

Kebabcito wrote:
I doubt between starting a Tau army or chaos marines.

What do you think about those changes? Do you recommend the start collecting boxes/battleforces/chrismas boxes?

The start collecting CSM box, is okay value, but beyond the obliterators the contents are iffy a bit. Well until CA drops. They are also daemonkin focussed, which whilest not competitive can still heavily troll the local meta.

Seems like CSM works better now, I would like to play them since they look cool as feth, I like alpha legion.

You can think of AL atm a bit likee a budget GSC army. With more ranged mphh. That said, you can pull alot of shenanigans atm with AL and considering Relics, WL traits (2 ) and the new stratagems

I'm looking an army with more options than orks (charge like crazy and shoot lootas, that's the only meta) I think chaos give me more resources for facing the battle, melee/speed/heavy/shoots...

TBF, competitively speaking, i doubt we see much beyond soup components, so don't expect a mono army to work in competitive for chaos.

Otoh, now with F&F you get some options to play with, which can shake up entrenched local metas.

 p5freak wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:

Until you drop a Lord along 3 Slaanesh Oblits and press the Big Red Button with Endless Cacophony an Rampant Techno-virus. Then you get 6 additional auto-hits with Fleshmetal Guns with rerollable S/AP/D.

Woooow, 6 additional hits for 3 CP

Umm, no. Those 3 CP are spent on rerolling Fleshmetal Guns stats and shooting an additional time. In fact, you only get 3 extra hits from those 3 CP on average because the first round of shooting doesn't cost any CP. The point I'm trying to make is that by simply giving your Warlord this trait you crank up the shooting of an already extremely deadly unit up by another ~20%. And as has been said above me, during overwatch you DOUBLE your output.

 Rydria wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

macluvin wrote:
Are terminators playable yet?

You can keep them "cheap" with combibolter and chainaxe. Use 10 slaanesh termis with a JP sorcerer and prescience, votlw and endless cacophony. Add a JP chaos lord to re-roll 1s to hit. Thats 80 shots hitting on 2s, re-rolling 1s, +1 to wound. Or go with combiplasma and the same two HQs, thats 40 overcharged plasma shots, hitting on 2s, re-rolling 1s, +1 to wound.

Emperor's Children Terminators could be scary from deep strike praise the prince stratagem is really strong, though I'm kind of hyped for host Raptorial emperor's children warp talons, they have a guaranteed 9 inch charge out of deep strike which puts them in direct competition with the terminators.

That's actually really good. Add the elixir to give them +1 attack and a lords reroll of 1's... that squad could do some serious damage.

Kebabcito wrote:
I doubt between starting a Tau army or chaos marines.

What do you think about those changes? Do you recommend the start collecting boxes/battleforces/chrismas boxes?

Seems like CSM works better now, I would like to play them since they look cool as feth, I like alpha legion.

I'm looking an army with more options than orks (charge like crazy and shoot lootas, that's the only meta) I think chaos give me more resources for facing the battle, melee/speed/heavy/shoots...

If you want an army that can have various playstyles definitely go Chaos. Sure, Tau can also opt into various playstyles but remember that that is only various forms of shooting. If you feel like going shooty one day and choppy the next definitely pick up Chaos.

I'd recommend picking up 2x the new Start Collecting Chaos Space Marines, a Lord Discordant and a Chaos Lord in Terminator armor to begin with, this gives you two Masters of Possession (you can turn one of them into a normal sorcerer), 4 Obliterators (deepstrike bomb, send the Terminator Lord with them. Keep in mind their max squad size is 3 though), 4 Greater Possessed, 20 CSM (turn 5 if them into Havocs, 15 marines is enough for a batallion) and 2 Venomcrawlers that you can send the Lord Discordant along with. Add a Rhino for the Greater Possessed if you feel like it.

For books you obviously want the codex. Also pick up Vigilus Ablaze and Psychic Awakening: Faith and Fury for tasty extra rules.

This gives you a solid basis that you can expand upon with anything you like, from cultists to daemons to cult marines.

What are peoples experiences of new Alpha Legion rules?

I've only had 2 games with them so far but have to say I'm happy with all the options.

Favourite new takeaways are deepstriking RCC havocks. Stick them in rhino behind terrain, t1 jump out and 1cp to stick them in deepstrike or just jump out and shoot if they're in range.

Chaos lord on bike with relic bolter is best sniper in game. More reliable than vindicare. More potent than eliminators.

Deepstrike mele armies are really easily de fanged.

Can only hope cultists and oblits rumours are correct.

 small_gods wrote:
What are peoples experiences of new Alpha Legion rules?

I've only had 2 games with them so far but have to say I'm happy with all the options.

Favourite new takeaways are deepstriking RCC havocks. Stick them in rhino behind terrain, t1 jump out and 1cp to stick them in deepstrike or just jump out and shoot if they're in range.

Chaos lord on bike with relic bolter is best sniper in game. More reliable than vindicare. More potent than eliminators.

Deepstrike mele armies are really easily de fanged.

Can only hope cultists and oblits rumours are correct.

Have run my ghost army today.
Personal favorite: Wl trait shenanigans moving 3 units + an HQ can seriously mindfeth an enemy. Additionally combiplas sniping is hillarious.
Renascent infiltration is amazing imo. (RCC havocs beeing the obvious choice, but even chosen with Combibolters can seriously bring pain depending on what you have there aswell
Ambush seriously can put the hurt on shock armies.
Jumppacklord with vipersbite is also fun, especially if you want to head hunt. But so long index is allowed the biker one is better.

Things i want to test, is mindveil and faceless commander. Not necessarily on one HQ but in general.

Cultist and Oblits are correct, considering the various review copies out there.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 small_gods wrote:
What are peoples experiences of new Alpha Legion rules?

I've only had 2 games with them so far but have to say I'm happy with all the options.

Favourite new takeaways are deepstriking RCC havocks. Stick them in rhino behind terrain, t1 jump out and 1cp to stick them in deepstrike or just jump out and shoot if they're in range.

Chaos lord on bike with relic bolter is best sniper in game. More reliable than vindicare. More potent than eliminators.

Deepstrike mele armies are really easily de fanged.

Can only hope cultists and oblits rumours are correct.

Have run my ghost army today.
Personal favorite: Wl trait shenanigans moving 3 units + an HQ can seriously mindfeth an enemy. Additionally combiplas sniping is hillarious.
Renascent infiltration is amazing imo. (RCC havocs beeing the obvious choice, but even chosen with Combibolters can seriously bring pain depending on what you have there aswell
Ambush seriously can put the hurt on shock armies.
Jumppacklord with vipersbite is also fun, especially if you want to head hunt. But so long index is allowed the biker one is better.

Things i want to test, is mindveil and faceless commander. Not necessarily on one HQ but in general.

Cultist and Oblits are correct, considering the various review copies out there.

Great stuff, have tried using hydras wail as well. For 1 cp i burnt 3 of my opponents. Definately worth a consideration for extra relic if your opponent is short on cp.

Pandabeer wrote:

Kebabcito wrote:
I doubt between starting a Tau army or chaos marines.

What do you think about those changes? Do you recommend the start collecting boxes/battleforces/chrismas boxes?

Seems like CSM works better now, I would like to play them since they look cool as feth, I like alpha legion.

I'm looking an army with more options than orks (charge like crazy and shoot lootas, that's the only meta) I think chaos give me more resources for facing the battle, melee/speed/heavy/shoots...

If you want an army that can have various playstyles definitely go Chaos. Sure, Tau can also opt into various playstyles but remember that that is only various forms of shooting. If you feel like going shooty one day and choppy the next definitely pick up Chaos.

I'd recommend picking up 2x the new Start Collecting Chaos Space Marines, a Lord Discordant and a Chaos Lord in Terminator armor to begin with, this gives you two Masters of Possession (you can turn one of them into a normal sorcerer), 4 Obliterators (deepstrike bomb, send the Terminator Lord with them. Keep in mind their max squad size is 3 though), 4 Greater Possessed, 20 CSM (turn 5 if them into Havocs, 15 marines is enough for a batallion) and 2 Venomcrawlers that you can send the Lord Discordant along with. Add a Rhino for the Greater Possessed if you feel like it.

For books you obviously want the codex. Also pick up Vigilus Ablaze and Psychic Awakening: Faith and Fury for tasty extra rules.

This gives you a solid basis that you can expand upon with anything you like, from cultists to daemons to cult marines.

So, with only 2 start collecting boxed and some HQ's, I've got like 1700p, seems like a cheap army.

Thanks for the tips, hoping the CA buffs CSM a bit

Kebabcito wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:

Kebabcito wrote:
I doubt between starting a Tau army or chaos marines.

What do you think about those changes? Do you recommend the start collecting boxes/battleforces/chrismas boxes?

Seems like CSM works better now, I would like to play them since they look cool as feth, I like alpha legion.

I'm looking an army with more options than orks (charge like crazy and shoot lootas, that's the only meta) I think chaos give me more resources for facing the battle, melee/speed/heavy/shoots...

If you want an army that can have various playstyles definitely go Chaos. Sure, Tau can also opt into various playstyles but remember that that is only various forms of shooting. If you feel like going shooty one day and choppy the next definitely pick up Chaos.

I'd recommend picking up 2x the new Start Collecting Chaos Space Marines, a Lord Discordant and a Chaos Lord in Terminator armor to begin with, this gives you two Masters of Possession (you can turn one of them into a normal sorcerer), 4 Obliterators (deepstrike bomb, send the Terminator Lord with them. Keep in mind their max squad size is 3 though), 4 Greater Possessed, 20 CSM (turn 5 if them into Havocs, 15 marines is enough for a batallion) and 2 Venomcrawlers that you can send the Lord Discordant along with. Add a Rhino for the Greater Possessed if you feel like it.

For books you obviously want the codex. Also pick up Vigilus Ablaze and Psychic Awakening: Faith and Fury for tasty extra rules.

This gives you a solid basis that you can expand upon with anything you like, from cultists to daemons to cult marines.

So, with only 2 start collecting boxed and some HQ's, I've got like 1700p, seems like a cheap army.

Thanks for the tips, hoping the CA buffs CSM a bit

You could get 2 of the new battleforces instead or one additional one. They have Terminators, Havocks and a terminator lord. All competitive stuff.

2 battleforces around 1400 points depending on set up. You could add a jump pack sorcerer, abbadon, dark apostle and another box of chaos spave marines. That'd be a full 2k black legion list with the right loadout.

a pretty meh one at that though. Considering the contents of the bits and assuming wysiwyg

Eh I wouldn't say the Terminator Lord is that competitive. I'll give a pass to Terminator Sorcerers because they can Deep Strike, Hex someone, and then they take slightly more effort to kill. I guess the included Combi-Bolter can shoot someone four times too which is nice.

I don't mind the Terminator lord for gunlines, he's more resilient to sniping and can pump out combi bolter shots. I suppose it depends on the ammount of vindicare/eliminators/raven guard you're likely to face. My local scene is riddled with them.

Not Online!!! wrote:
a pretty meh one at that though. Considering the contents of the bits and assuming wysiwyg

Until GW puts enough copies of all the possible loadouts on the sprues (especially in the case of CSM and Havocs) you can't really really expect someone to adhere to wysiwyg. Until then I'm just going to assume everything is using optimized loadouts regardless of what the miniature is actually holding in it's hands.

Pandabeer wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
a pretty meh one at that though. Considering the contents of the bits and assuming wysiwyg

Until GW puts enough copies of all the possible loadouts on the sprues (especially in the case of CSM and Havocs) you can't really really expect someone to adhere to wysiwyg. Until then I'm just going to assume everything is using optimized loadouts regardless of what the miniature is actually holding in it's hands.

Oh i totally agree,but he seems to be competitively minded,meaning that wysiwyg might be important to him.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 small_gods wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 small_gods wrote:
What are peoples experiences of new Alpha Legion rules?

I've only had 2 games with them so far but have to say I'm happy with all the options.

Favourite new takeaways are deepstriking RCC havocks. Stick them in rhino behind terrain, t1 jump out and 1cp to stick them in deepstrike or just jump out and shoot if they're in range.

Chaos lord on bike with relic bolter is best sniper in game. More reliable than vindicare. More potent than eliminators.

Deepstrike mele armies are really easily de fanged.

Can only hope cultists and oblits rumours are correct.

Have run my ghost army today.
Personal favorite: Wl trait shenanigans moving 3 units + an HQ can seriously mindfeth an enemy. Additionally combiplas sniping is hillarious.
Renascent infiltration is amazing imo. (RCC havocs beeing the obvious choice, but even chosen with Combibolters can seriously bring pain depending on what you have there aswell
Ambush seriously can put the hurt on shock armies.
Jumppacklord with vipersbite is also fun, especially if you want to head hunt. But so long index is allowed the biker one is better.

Things i want to test, is mindveil and faceless commander. Not necessarily on one HQ but in general.

Cultist and Oblits are correct, considering the various review copies out there.

Great stuff, have tried using hydras wail as well. For 1 cp i burnt 3 of my opponents. Definately worth a consideration for extra relic if your opponent is short on cp.

I think hydras wail will be important enough to be considered in many lists.