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So once the new edition launches we are starting a new thread that isn't 180 pages of mostly useless content right?

macluvin wrote:
So once the new edition launches we are starting a new thread that isn't 180 pages of mostly useless content right?

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/788821.page

 Eldarain wrote:

macluvin wrote:
So once the new edition launches we are starting a new thread that isn't 180 pages of mostly useless content right?

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/788821.page

Or, to put another way, yes! Just in General Discussion rather than tactics.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:

macluvin wrote:
So once the new edition launches we are starting a new thread that isn't 180 pages of mostly useless content right?

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/788821.page

Or, to put another way, yes! Just in General Discussion rather than tactics.

Which will Ruin General discussion imo but he.

For those of you lucky to get your hands on the new book, if you run Bile, does he need to be warlord?

Bile needs to be warlord in a Creations of Bile army, yes. However, you can still run him as not-warlord in another Legion if you want to, although of course he will not benefit from any of his Creations of Bile rules.

One thing that I just realised which is a very big negative - Bile's Experimental Enhancements rule happens at the **end** of the movement phase. This means if you want to sling a big unit of Possessed (or similar) across the table T1 they won't be within range for the buff.

I am kind of salty that you can't take both a the Creations keyword and a legion keyword at the same time, but I can see where GW is coming from, as Bile considers himself behold to no one.

saint_red wrote:
Bile needs to be warlord in a Creations of Bile army, yes.

No, he doesnt. Nothing in the rules say that.

saint_red wrote:

However, you can still run him as not-warlord in another Legion if you want to, although of course he will not benefit from any of his Creations of Bile rules.

The detachment where he is in would need to be a HERETIC ASTARTES detachment, no legion trait for anyone. Or you spend 1CP for an aux support detachment.

saint_red wrote:

One thing that I just realised which is a very big negative - Bile's Experimental Enhancements rule happens at the **end** of the movement phase. This means if you want to sling a big unit of Possessed (or similar) across the table T1 they won't be within range for the buff.

Not only that, the unit needs to be wholly within 6" of bile to be enhanced. Good luck doing that with 20+ models.

In short, bile is useless, dont bother with him.

Did he lose his exception to breaking a detachments legion trait?

 Eldarain wrote:
Did he lose his exception to breaking a detachments legion trait?

His datasheet doesnt say anything about that.

I’m pretty sure that it’s feasible to keep all of a Possessed horde within 6” of Bile before he buffs them, you just need to move him first so that you can be careful with their positioning, bear in mind it’s the Warptime that really gives them their reach

In fact, if he starts embedded in their unit, right near the front with one marine touching him and only a mm further forwards, he can roll a 1 to advance and the marine can roll a 6 and they’re still within 6”, the rest of the unit can then encircle and get ready to WT forwards

 lindsay40k wrote:
I’m pretty sure that it’s feasible to keep all of a Possessed horde within 6” of Bile before he buffs them, you just need to move him first so that you can be careful with their positioning, bear in mind it’s the Warptime that really gives them their reach

In fact, if he starts embedded in their unit, right near the front with one marine touching him and only a mm further forwards, he can roll a 1 to advance and the marine can roll a 6 and they’re still within 6”, the rest of the unit can then encircle and get ready to WT forwards

Also, a 6" bubble on a 1" base is a 13" diameter.

You can fit a lot of models into that bubble. Might make sense to have Bile behind the unit you want to buff, just advance him and wade into the middle.

 p5freak wrote:

saint_red wrote:
Bile needs to be warlord in a Creations of Bile army, yes.

No, he doesnt. Nothing in the rules say that.

saint_red wrote:

However, you can still run him as not-warlord in another Legion if you want to, although of course he will not benefit from any of his Creations of Bile rules.

The detachment where he is in would need to be a HERETIC ASTARTES detachment, no legion trait for anyone. Or you spend 1CP for an aux support detachment.

saint_red wrote:

One thing that I just realised which is a very big negative - Bile's Experimental Enhancements rule happens at the **end** of the movement phase. This means if you want to sling a big unit of Possessed (or similar) across the table T1 they won't be within range for the buff.

Not only that, the unit needs to be wholly within 6" of bile to be enhanced. Good luck doing that with 20+ models.

In short, bile is useless, dont bother with him.

I have no idea what you are reading because you are completely wrong. The rule is on pg. 76 and says "If Fabius Bile is your Warlord, units from your army can replace their <LEGION> keyword with CREATIONS OF BILE. Note that you cannot replace the <LEGION> keyword with CREATIONS OF BILE unless Fabius Bile is your Warlord." The CREATIONS OF BILE keyword is required for all of their buffs.

Furthermore, Fabius Bile's datasheet is not what prevents him from breaking keywords and it never has been. It is the "Shadowy Allies" rule from the CSM codex, which has remained unchanged. On pg. 76 from War of the Spider it explicitly refers to this rule to justify why Bile doesn't benefit from his own legion trait.

saint_red wrote:

I have no idea what you are reading because you are completely wrong. The rule is on pg. 76 and says "If Fabius Bile is your Warlord, units from your army can replace their <LEGION> keyword with CREATIONS OF BILE. Note that you cannot replace the <LEGION> keyword with CREATIONS OF BILE unless Fabius Bile is your Warlord." The CREATIONS OF BILE keyword is required for all of their buffs.

If i want bile to enhance a unit of 20 AL possessed he doesnt need to be the warlord. What was asked is, if you run bile, does he need to be your warlord.

saint_red wrote:

Furthermore, Fabius Bile's datasheet is not what prevents him from breaking keywords and it never has been. It is the "Shadowy Allies" rule from the CSM codex, which has remained unchanged. On pg. 76 from War of the Spider it explicitly refers to this rule to justify why Bile doesn't benefit from his own legion trait.

Thats true, i overlooked that, sorry.

OK, I see what you mean. Yes, you can still use him as AL or another Legion. However, if you want to run a Creations of Bile army, he **must** be your warlord.

Regarding the other point, no problem, it is admittedly quite confusing.

Turning back to the question of whether it is possible to keep him in range of his buff targets - I think Lindsay and techsoldaten are right, it should be possible, and with warptime it doesn't matter too much if you have to slow down a little bit.

Which units do we think will be viable in a Creations of Bile list? Possessed are the obvious choice, DPs and Disco Lords both appreciate the trait and character buffing strat, Cultists like the enhancements but unfortunately get nothing from the trait. Dare I say it - but could terminators be something to look at? S5 and M6 are solid but the on demand T5 is what I think will really help them.

As "techsoldaten" has said, its very easy to put a 20 model unit in 6" range of FB.
One thing most of you have not realised,
they have to be within of FB´s Unit! He is a unit of 2 Models (2" seperated) -> big Space.

Just try it with proxys its not a problem!

greetings Badger

Great point, @Badger!

T’au retain 8ed OW. Warp Talons will remain a counter (gatekeeper?) for them and a number of niche units

They’re still going to be less useful in the broad stroke, with general OW disabled. Maybe they’ll get a (relative) points drop to reflect the lower general utility of their superpower?

I'm still wondering when we're going to be able to create our own custom warbands. I'm probably sticking with Iron Warriors and/or World Eaters at the moment, but I do want to be able to put together a Crimson Slaughter/Word Bearers/Brazen Beasts successor band.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
I'm still wondering when we're going to be able to create our own custom warbands. I'm probably sticking with Iron Warriors and/or World Eaters at the moment, but I do want to be able to put together a Crimson Slaughter/Word Bearers/Brazen Beasts successor band.

Never forgetti customizability is only for loyalists.

Well atleast gw seems to think that it would Lead to another 3.5 dex disaster if not.

3.5 was only a "disaster" because it wasn't in line with the rest of the game. It's exactly the same scenario we're currently in with a bloody 6 volume codex plus campaign book additions for loyalists.

The game would be fantastic if everyone got that level of attention, detail and enthusiasm in their releases.

It has long been a problem that they don't design a game so much as make their little passion projects in isolation of each other and without an overarching concern for how it fits together.

I was really excited by the fact that the ectoplasma cannons are blast weapons since that makes them better than before, but considering that GW seems to be stacking penalty upon penalty upon anyone who fields units of more than five models, this improvement strikes me as kind of pointless now.

So with the new rule where all vehicles and monsters (I don't think we have any 'monsters' but vehicles we have a bunch of) all effectively gain the Steel Behemoth rule (can shoot weapons while in combat), does this open up the usage of any of our previously mediocre units?

Helbrutes and Dreads were already good, and now seem to be even better as shooty variants can still have a use even if risking tarpitting.

Land raiders perhaps?

The Flamestorm Predator from forgeworld was always a favourite of mine on paper (lots of gushing flames) but was easily countered by being tarpitted, but now it can melt the pits.

Defiler seems to have a pretty decent buff from it as well.


Just a thought. Points changes will matter of course.

Aye, vehicles of us are improved, but i feel like the coherency rule will throw a wrench at our melee capabilities.

I guess we also need more of the pts, but when tacs are now supposedly at 15 pts and scouts at 14, i honestly see rather black for our CSM:
Not to mention that cultists have become a massive liability imo due to their extremely nerfed capability.

not to mention we will see a distinct lack of HQ slots available and that is an issue imo for a lot of our strategies, not to mention that a lot of the smaller HQ now probably never will make the cut anymore, last but not least because of the distinct lack off mobility options.

(meanwhile primaris insta get new Biker HQ....)

If i want to include one LOS in my CSM army i have to use a super heavy aux detachment, which costs me 3CP, and the LOS doesnt get a legion trait. If a tsons, or a DG player wants to include magnus, or morty, they use a supreme command detachment, which costs 0CP, and they get legion traits. Is that correct ?

So.... Emperor's Children got some decent boosts in the new 9th Edition rules.

The Blastmaster now has the Blast keyword. Granting, Heavy D3 S8/-2AP/Dam D3 vs 0-5 model units, and Heavy 3 S8/-2AP/Dam D3 vs 6+ model units. Or Assault D6 S4/AP-1/Dam 1 vs 0-5 model units, Assault 3 S4/AP-1/Dam 1 vs 6-10+ model units, and Assault 6 S4/AP-1/Dam 1 vs 11+ model units. That's pretty good before even getting into stratagems like Endless Cacophony, Veterans of the Long War, or Excruciating Frequencies. So, I'm sure they'll go up in points. Then we have "Blast" on frag grenades which uniquely each Noise Marines can toss as they die. Sonic weapons still ignore cover, while hordes are even more dependent on cover. But we'll have to see how they interact with terrain penalties.

My only fear is the FAQ. Scarily a lot could change for Emperor's Children depending on what they do with the FAQ. It took 3 separate erratas , to explain how the Music of the Apocalypse rule even functions. The Emperor's Children's ability to take Noise Marines a troops also only appears in the FAQ. So, hopefully we don't have to wait long for an updated FAQ. Speaking of FAQs another potential loss is the Sonic Dreadnought. Which currently exists solely as Forge World Index FAQ creation, with no model support. I doubt they'll even go to Legends now that GW is writing Forge Worlds rules. The only way I see it coming back is if they release a plastic model in a Emperor's Children release....sigh.







Anyone see any other benefits or changes changes for Emperors Children?

With everything you mentioned I expect them to go up in points quite heftily. If tacs are 15ppm I can easily see noise Marines go up to 16 base plus 4 for Sonic blasters.

Is this Primaris bike HQ the one from the Bell of Lost Souls article? Is there more evidence than that? It seems unlikely as it says it is in the Indomitus box. If it is true it will annoy the crap out of me, as my custom Biker Lord was scrapped into legends status.

 p5freak wrote:
If i want to include one LOS in my CSM army i have to use a super heavy aux detachment, which costs me 3CP, and the LOS doesnt get a legion trait. If a tsons, or a DG player wants to include magnus, or morty, they use a supreme command detachment, which costs 0CP, and they get legion traits. Is that correct ?

i think so from the information we as of yet got?
Kinda unfair, but is fine in a way.

Starting to think about what happens to lists in 9th edition.

Of the 2 mainstays I play, the Black Legion gunline looks like it will survive intact. OTOH, the Daemon Primarch looks more complicated. Can anyone help me sort through this?

Using the screenshots of detachments posted in another thread.

The 8th edition version of this list looks like this.

Supreme Command Detachment
- Magnus
- Ahriman
- Exalted Sorcerer on Disk x 2
- DP with Wings

Super Heavy Aux
- Mortarion

Battalion
- 2x Poxbringers
- 2x Nurglings
- 21 Plaguebringers
- Sicaran

For 9th, I don't see a practical way to run it.

The Supreme Command Detachment (SCD) has changed, there's no single detachment for loading up on HQs. You'd want to take the SCD to get the CP benefit for the Battalion, but it doesn't leave any room for the TS characters. The only way I could get Ahriman and his guys into a list would be a Brigade.

If you want to run Morty and Ahriman in a list, you need to take a SCD and a Auxillary or 2 Auxillaries. If I'm sticking with 2 detachments, that means I'd need 2 just for a pair of characters. I'd have to choose between going Nurgle or TSons with the remaining one.

Am I missing something? Otherwise it looks like this list goes away.

 Lord Blackscale wrote:
Is this Primaris bike HQ the one from the Bell of Lost Souls article? Is there more evidence than that? It seems unlikely as it says it is in the Indomitus box. If it is true it will annoy the crap out of me, as my custom Biker Lord was scrapped into legends status.

And it just got verified officially