Pondering the life cycle of a Genestealer Cult.

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**AndrewGPaul**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
That’s not my own understanding. Which of course, doesn’t mean that I’m correct.

However. Both are feasible when you consider what it is to be a Brood Brother.

Once implanted, the host becomes utterly loyal to the nascent Patriarch. So it may be that if both are needed, it’s easily achieved, as they’ll bring their paramour to the Purestrain for a very special snog. From there, the baby making commences.

It’s hard to say whether a Patriarch strikes jackpot by infecting a male or female. At least by modem soceital standards,

Women? To find a further victim, can walk into a bar and ask ‘who wants it’, and almost certainly find a victim (I am not slut shaming here. That is a flaw of men in society, not women). Of course, she can only have so many kids in a given time period. Provided there’s no enhanced gestation period, that’s a bit of a slow start. Male? Well, the whole ‘who wants it’ thing? Not so effective. But, money can procure Ladies Of Negotiable Affection, and he can can the brood off to a quicker start there and then.

Again, this is not some incel nonsense. We’re talking about societal norms as they stand, not pointing fingers.

One of the Ciaphas Cain short stories has the local Genestealer cult operating a brothel which caters mostly to the Imperial Guard forces on the planet to put down the Genestealer infestation.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
As to the origin of the Genestealer, I’ve always assumed that the basic Warrior, Gaunt and ‘stealer forms are vaguely representative of related but different species from the original Tyranid home world. The Genestealer is a bit of an outlier; Tyranid forms tend to have the primary manipulative limbs being the first pair, whereas Genestealers have them as the middle pair, and are never seen using tools (mechanical or biological) at all.

**Pacific**

I preferred the lore back when there was no connection between Genestealers and Tyranids. Back before every single dangerous alien in the 40k universe started being re-written as related to the Nids in some way.

Although the Genestealer Cult softening up a world ready for the Nid invasion is a cool idea, for me it's always seemed far too subtle in terms of how we have seen the Nid fleets operate: Never-ending waves of hive ships blocking out the sky, a psychic shroud that drives astropaths insane and cuts off all outside contact, and then the defenders are annihilated by over-whelming drops from orbit.

How does this tie-in with Genestealer Cults hiding away on Space Hulks, which may or may not land on a world somewhere in the known galaxy, which may or may not be anywhere near a place in the path of a hive fleet? It just doesn't feel like it fits to me.

So for me, "we think they come from the moons of Ymgrllllll" was so much more enigmatic and interesting, and pre-supposes that the Imperium can be up against dangerous alien species that aren't Nids or Orks. And that it's a big place.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Now pondering how successful a Cult might be on a Knight World? It may just be my own personal head canon, but I’ve never pictured such worlds as particularly heavily populated, not by our standards, let alone the Imperiums?

Then there’s the question of how the Throne Mechanicum would receive a hybrid?

**HoundsofDemos**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Now pondering how successful a Cult might be on a Knight World? It may just be my own personal head canon, but I’ve never pictured such worlds as particularly heavily populated, not by our standards, let alone the Imperiums?

Then there’s the question of how the Throne Mechanicum would receive a hybrid?

I would imagine they would preform poorly on any sparsely populated world. They're whole infiltration really wouldn't work outside of a hive city as they need a forgotten and discreet underclass to take over. A feudal world that most knights hail from really doesn't have that since it's low population and not really developed tech wise. They would stick out like sore thumbs pretty quickly.

**beast_gts**

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Now pondering how successful a Cult might be on a Knight World? It may just be my own personal head canon, but I’ve never pictured such worlds as particularly heavily populated, not by our standards, let alone the Imperiums?

Then there’s the question of how the Throne Mechanicum would receive a hybrid?

I would imagine they would preform poorly on any sparsely populated world. They're whole infiltration really wouldn't work outside of a hive city as they need a forgotten and discreet underclass to take over. A feudal world that most knights hail from really doesn't have that since it's low population and not really developed tech wise. They would stick out like sore thumbs pretty quickly.

Some Knight Worlds are highly developed - in Knightsblade they're able to locally produce aircraft and orbital defences. In Kingsblade, Throne Mechanicum have no problems with Chaos worshippers / mutants being in them.

Also - House Mortimer:

**Fifty**

beast_gts wrote:
HoundsofDemos wrote:
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Now pondering how successful a Cult might be on a Knight World? It may just be my own personal head canon, but I’ve never pictured such worlds as particularly heavily populated, not by our standards, let alone the Imperiums?

Then there’s the question of how the Throne Mechanicum would receive a hybrid?

I would imagine they would preform poorly on any sparsely populated world. They're whole infiltration really wouldn't work outside of a hive city as they need a forgotten and discreet underclass to take over. A feudal world that most knights hail from really doesn't have that since it's low population and not really developed tech wise. They would stick out like sore thumbs pretty quickly.

Some Knight Worlds are highly developed - in Knightsblade they're able to locally produce aircraft and orbital defences. In Kingsblade, Throne Mechanicum have no problems with Chaos worshippers / mutants being in them.

Also - House Mortimer:

I never noticed House Mortimer! That is HUGE. Now I need a Knight Household!

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

If I’m right in thinking, that art predates GSC. Still hella intriguing though

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Though in hindsight, an established Cult then spreading to a Knightworld does make strategic sense. They ship themselves all over the Galaxy after all.

Even if that splinter Cult never gets anywhere near its own Ascenion Day, it’s still a good move.

**AndrewGPaul**

Nope; the Genestealer Cults material appeared four or five months before the Imperial Knights article.

Not sure if that was the genestealer symbol back then, though.

**ArcaneHorror**

Can fourth generation cultists grow hair? Doing so could go a long way in allowing them to infiltrate human society even deeper, including the nobility. Imagine if a cultist managed to become a High Lord of Terra or a Cardinal.

**Fifty**

They can wear wigs...

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Cardinal? Sure, easy enough.

High Lord? Strikes me as incredibly doubtful. One imagines there are many, many checks. Spesh since Vandire!

**queen_annes_revenge**

I don't think they grow hair. They'd have to get pally with a wigmaker

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Doubt that’d be a problem

Mind you, if we accept the general level of hygiene on an Imperial World is probably fairly poor? Being a baldyslaphead probably goes quite unremarked. Plus, there are so many wings tolerated as part of the Imperial Cult that peeps shaving their bonces as a sign of devotion probably isn’t all that remarkable.

**queen_annes_revenge**

To be fair, there doesn't seem to be a decent barber in the entire 40k universe.. Cept maybe on necromunda.

**CadianGateTroll**

Yall dont remember the movie Species?

**Iracundus**

A GSC can still survive and progress albeit more slowly on a Knight world or other relatively low population and/or lower tech world. Settlements may be more isolated and these would be the ones that would be infected. Think of Lovecraft's Innsmouth. Eventually you would have this insular settlement that outsiders have trouble penetrating but it may still outwardly fulfill all its obligations.

The GSC might take longer to reach the point where it tries to take over the planet, due to the lower population and the slower rate of spread, but I wouldn't say it impossible.

**Excommunicatus**

The only memorable parts of Species can't be discussed here.

**Arbitrator**

Well, judging by this trailer they don't appear to come out all too different from regular human babies. Notice the mouth and eyes when it 'jumps' to the Genestealer Features still roughly fits the same size. I'd assume that even in the earliest generations, the freakier bits don't start manifesting until after birth. It makes sense for an infiltration organism that relies on essentially brainwashing it's human parents for protection to not actually kill the mother I suppose.

Knight Worlds were notorious for purging potential mutants even before the Age of Strife, which is why so many did better than other human worlds. It's not impossible but it seems unlikely they'd prosper in any numbers enough to become a real threat. Also, the Throne Mechanicum would probably realise something is wrong with the Noble and react accordingly, since presumably the Hive Mind/Patriarch's influence isn't 'reality warper powerful' as Chaos corruption would be to them.

**Pink Horror**

Pacific wrote:
I preferred the lore back when there was no connection between Genestealers and Tyranids. Back before every single dangerous alien in the 40k universe started being re-written as related to the Nids in some way.

Although the Genestealer Cult softening up a world ready for the Nid invasion is a cool idea, for me it's always seemed far too subtle in terms of how we have seen the Nid fleets operate: Never-ending waves of hive ships blocking out the sky, a psychic shroud that drives astropaths insane and cuts off all outside contact, and then the defenders are annihilated by over-whelming drops from orbit.

How does this tie-in with Genestealer Cults hiding away on Space Hulks, which may or may not land on a world somewhere in the known galaxy, which may or may not be anywhere near a place in the path of a hive fleet? It just doesn't feel like it fits to me.

So for me, "we think they come from the moons of Ymgrllllll" was so much more enigmatic and interesting, and pre-supposes that the Imperium can be up against dangerous alien species that aren't Nids or Orks. And that it's a big place.

My head-canon is that the Tyranid fleet is enormous, but slow. The genestealers would travel as a loose cloud around the denser core of the fleet. The fleet is so large that the genestealers arrive hundreds of years ahead of the main invasion force. Sure, many genestealers land on worlds that aren't fit for invasion, but there's some that do, and those help direct the invasion.

**NinthMusketeer**

I think that is a good theory. There are fluff snippets that imply as such too, and given the immense amount of time the Tyranids were presumably travelling a few hundred years is an eyeblink.

**YeOldSaltPotato**

ArcaneHorror wrote:
Can fourth generation cultists grow hair? Doing so could go a long way in allowing them to infiltrate human society even deeper, including the nobility. Imagine if a cultist managed to become a High Lord of Terra or a Cardinal.

No idea if it's been tossed out since, but there's definitely hybrids with hair in some of the Cain books.

**shinros**

YeOldSaltPotato wrote:
ArcaneHorror wrote:
Can fourth generation cultists grow hair? Doing so could go a long way in allowing them to infiltrate human society even deeper, including the nobility. Imagine if a cultist managed to become a High Lord of Terra or a Cardinal.

No idea if it's been tossed out since, but there's definitely hybrids with hair in some of the Cain books.

You have to remember those novels were old and were written before the update. Under the current context of the recent lore they would be brood brothers and sisters. To add to this discussion you would not have any problems giving birth to a mutant if the doctors are nurses are part of the cult already(the biophages lore states they infiltrate such places). They wouldn't look normal upon birth, the whole point of 4th generation hybrids is that they can pass as humans but they still have tiny traits that mark what they are. The fore-head ridges, mauve tinted skin or even claws. Also the trailer that was linked the baby is actually monstrous, it's likely a genestealer or a 1st/2nd generation hybrid but due to the psychic link and brood-mind they see them as soft-skinned children upon birth.

I recommend for people to give cult of the spiral dawn a read. It's a book that largely focuses on GSC.

Also per the vigilus campaign book cults spread to other worlds through missionaries or sending out genestealers hence why the same cults are seen across the galaxy.

**Haighus**

epronovost wrote:
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’m not sure insertion at the bottom of society is entirely desirable either. Whilst you can certainly expand the brood quickly, and in privacy, it make it far harder to get up the social ladder, and thus into positions of power and influence.

Plus, those invading Space Hulks etc are likely from mid-Hive. Those with sufficient resources to maintain a space ship and crew. I’m also guessing the entire crew would be compromised on the journey back. That’s a fairly decent start, as they can potentially go their separate ways. Though again, I think it’s open to debate whether that’s more desirable than keeping the brood together?

Starting in the lower quarter gives you access to the higher ones through servants. All rich nobles will have an extensive staff composed of poor people. Idealy, if you get a pretty man or woman of low extraction and manage to get them into service of a noble (a rather easy task), you just managed to stick your claws into that noble household and can infect the entire family and the rest of hte servants which themselves will quickly come into contact of other nobles.

Not that many- remember that most the menial labour on many Imperial worlds heavily relies on servitors, not normal humans. I doubt lobotomised servitors are especially useful to GSCs unless they control them of course.

There are still normal servants, but they are likely to be semi-skilled to skilled roles recruited from about the bottom strata, or even from hereditary servant dynasties.

This may account for why it is rare to see the upper strata infiltrated, and instead we tend to see uprisings from the bottom.

Of course, more primitive or servitor-averse worlds will be easier to infiltrate.

**beast_gts**

From today's WarCom article:

Spoiler:

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Man.

Now I wanna run a slightly abstract, multi-generation RPG, with the players trying to spread the cult and infection.

Perhaps have them as 3rd Gen, as they're the first that can mingle relatively freely, whilst also having the odd obvious mutation to have to cover up as best they can?

**Haighus**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Man.

Now I wanna run a slightly abstract, multi-generation RPG, with the players trying to spread the cult and infection.

Perhaps have them as 3rd Gen, as they're the first that can mingle relatively freely, whilst also having the odd obvious mutation to have to cover up as best they can?

Could also have a player working as an Inquisitor, who has to do the reverse- gain a network of informants and operatives to slow down the spread and locate the source

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Or have them start as a regular band, and all get infected, becoming Brood Brothers....

**Niiai**

Heck. Have them be a regular band. Do not tell them they are in the 40k universe. And at some point have them self discover they are suporting a freedom cult/ movement that worships a 4 armed avatar of the gods.

**ArcaneHorror**

I see what people are saying about the wigs, although given had adaptable Tyranid DNA is, I'm surprised that hair and other human features have not been added yet. As to the 4th generation cultists, I was under the impression that they looked almost entirely human except for pale skin and hypnotic eyes, with tattoos beneath clothing being used for cultists to mark themselves out.

**=Angel=**

ArcaneHorror wrote:
I see what people are saying about the wigs, although given had adaptable Tyranid DNA is, I'm surprised that hair and other human features have not been added yet. As to the 4th generation cultists, I was under the impression that they looked almost entirely human except for pale skin and hypnotic eyes, with tattoos beneath clothing being used for cultists to mark themselves out.

Cain novels had very human looking hybrids that used tattoos to disguise the telltale signs of infection, the same way you might cover a scar or blemish.

Different structure can also be camouflaged in this way.

There are enough tattooed looneys that you can get away with this.