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[quote=Astmeister 769252 10329746 68906258520f915788baf3339fb09dfa.jpg

Actually I only find the Gunslinger to be broken at the moment. And he is a suicidal weapon.

 Astmeister wrote:
Is everything really so bleak, when you look at Genestealer Cults?

1.) They die to a stiff breeze, as has already been pointed out.

2.) They are tyranid enhanced bio weapons to overthrow a planets population. So they damn well deserve to be en par with Space Marines in certain ways. Note that they are even not S4 T4.

3.) I find it nice that GW made the GSC an army with a distinct playstyle. Of course this also means they should be able to do, what no one else can.

4.) Why do we have to compare them to Space Marines at all? Most people agree that the Codex SM are currently one of the weakest armies out there. This might very well change in a couple of months, when a new Codex comes out.

Actually I only find the Gunslinger to be broken at the moment. And he is a suicidal weapon.

1.) Numbers. Guardsmen also die easily, Cultists also die easily, dosen't change the fact that they are annoying to deal with.

2.) Which are armed with mining tools and apparantly pistols and sniperrifles that are Dark age of technology style statted and are built in the lower underhive/ somewhere in a dugout in a forest on a backwater.

3.) MHM, we allready had armies that ignore core restrictions, mind you they tended to be a problem, alpha legion f.e. And whilest i agree that the distinction is good, i am still questioning the thought process on some of these rules.

4.) Because Codex SM is vannila flavour and one of the codexes which you can best show that codex creep is happening. You could also pick CSM. Same difference.

 Astmeister wrote:
Is everything really so bleak, when you look at Genestealer Cults?

1.) They die to a stiff breeze, as has already been pointed out.

2.) They are tyranid enhanced bio weapons to overthrow a planets population. So they damn well deserve to be en par with Space Marines in certain ways. Note that they are even not S4 T4.

3.) I find it nice that GW made the GSC an army with a distinct playstyle. Of course this also means they should be able to do, what no one else can.

4.) Why do we have to compare them to Space Marines at all? Most people agree that the Codex SM are currently one of the weakest armies out there. This might very well change in a couple of months, when a new Codex comes out.

Actually I only find the Gunslinger to be broken at the moment. And he is a suicidal weapon.

Also, do we know whether any of these new characters are Uniques or not? Some of them (like Keller) seem to be in the fluff, or maybe they're a "common cult form" and have the Unique keyword. If they are indeed what GSC get other than "Named Characters" then I'm much more willing to forgive them getting unique powerful stuff. After all, mortal tank commanders like Pask and Longstrike are better shots than space marine tank pilots, Iron Hand straken is stronger than a space marine, etc. And the "bike bimbo" (stay classy 4chan) would be more like the equivalent of Telion (whose sniper rifle is 4x better than a standard marine sniper rifle for some reason) than a random marine scout sniper.

Being able to patch in some stormtroopers for some elite shooting seems like a nice benefit.

 TonyH122 wrote:
Genestealers not getting faction traits seems odd to me. The cultists presumably get the abilities they do from sharing genetic material from the Patriarch, and genestealers are just another generation of cultists. But oh well.

The real issue then is that it further pushes people away from genestealers and towards Aberrants, and perhaps even Acolytes and Metamorphs after this change. And if they are still 15 points they perhaps seem not worth it. Given Nid stealers get the relevant hive fleet bonuses, I think you could justify GSC stealers also being 12 points, with their 'bonus' being ambush.

In fluff, cult abilities aren't genetic traits but reflect the fanatical beliefs of the cultists, steered in different ways according to the "flavour" of the cult. They get +1 advance or whatever because their religion convinces them to throw themselves forward as fast as possible, regardless of danger, health, logic or sanity.

Purestrains and Patriarchs don't actually believe in any of that nonsense, any more than the Emperor would pray to himself or L.Ron Hubbard ever worried about his thetan levels. No indoctrination/brainwashing means they don't gain these "supernatural" extra abilities. They are remorseless aliens so if they need to run faster, they just do it (in their profiles) and don't need to be convinced to by a Magus. They are happy to take the worship and play along because it suits their overall mission.

Fluff =/= rules. Ahriman and co literally rip appart whole squads of Custodes with a single psychic power in the burning of prospero books, yet they don't do so on the tabletop.

In the first Horus Heresy book the Lunar Wolves storm a stronghold of resistance manned by (essentially) guardsmen, equiped with Lasguns, Autoguns etc. They only brought 4 squads, killed over 1000 dudes and didn't lose a single one of their own. They were literally so invincible that they didn't even break stride. Yet on the tabletop the Autocannons that their Terminators simply shrugged off can kill a Termi in one shot.

In the fluff, everything is OP and over the top. "Realisticaly" we would have a few thousand Neophytes vs. a few squads of Space Marines.

And thoughts on the Ridgerunner costing 80p vs. Goliath costing 72p? Seems odd to me.

 Causalis wrote:
Fluff =/= rules. Ahriman and co literally rip appart whole squads of Custodes with a single psychic power in the burning of prospero books, yet they don't do so on the tabletop.

In the first Horus Heresy book the Lunar Wolves storm a stronghold of resistance manned by (essentially) guardsmen, equiped with Lasguns, Autoguns etc. They only brought 4 squads, killed over 1000 dudes and didn't lose a single one of their own. They were literally so invincible that they didn't even break stride. Yet on the tabletop the Autocannons that their Terminators simply shrugged off can kill a Termi in one shot.

In the fluff, everything is OP and over the top. "Realisticaly" we would have a few thousand Neophytes vs. a few squads of Space Marines.

And thoughts on the Ridgerunner costing 80p vs. Goliath costing 72p? Seems odd to me.

Keep in mind the RR has options and the 80p option is the one where it has 6+FNP and a mini-lascannon. Other weapon options in particular the mortar might make it cheaper.

It has 2 fewer wounds (without a degrading profile), 2 fewer toughness, but 4" more movement and a scout move at the beginning of the game meaning turn 1 it almost certainly will not have to move to gain a target.

I think what we will most likely end up seeing with the ridgeruners is the HML option used with the spotter (making it 30" range, you'll just scoot it up into cover and use it as a gunboat), the mortar used with the flaregun and the missile launcher used with the ignore cover array because MLs suffer from their low AP compared to other antitank weapons.

In most instances two autocannons aren't as good as a HML/Missile Launcher fighting tanks and the ridgerunner will benefit a lot from its not needing to move, instead getting to park itself somewhere good with its scout move, pair up with an Alphus Jackal and form a BS3+ firebase while your Goliaths will mostly be trying to get Neophyte squads within 12" to make use of their rapid fire weaponry so if you hit on 5s with its autocannons that's a nice bonus.

Next article is up - further confirms the leaks posted here earlier!

Also, rip Black Heart


https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/01/31/31st-jan-genestealer-cults-rules-preview-part-3gw-homepage-post-2/

I hope the (at least seemingly) fair price point of the Ridgerunner heralds some point drops for the ork buggies in the March FAQ.
Also my looting eyes are looking at it like a fat juicy steak

Patriarch wrote:

 TonyH122 wrote:
Genestealers not getting faction traits seems odd to me. The cultists presumably get the abilities they do from sharing genetic material from the Patriarch, and genestealers are just another generation of cultists. But oh well.

The real issue then is that it further pushes people away from genestealers and towards Aberrants, and perhaps even Acolytes and Metamorphs after this change. And if they are still 15 points they perhaps seem not worth it. Given Nid stealers get the relevant hive fleet bonuses, I think you could justify GSC stealers also being 12 points, with their 'bonus' being ambush.

In fluff, cult abilities aren't genetic traits but reflect the fanatical beliefs of the cultists, steered in different ways according to the "flavour" of the cult. They get +1 advance or whatever because their religion convinces them to throw themselves forward as fast as possible, regardless of danger, health, logic or sanity.

Purestrains and Patriarchs don't actually believe in any of that nonsense, any more than the Emperor would pray to himself or L.Ron Hubbard ever worried about his thetan levels. No indoctrination/brainwashing means they don't gain these "supernatural" extra abilities. They are remorseless aliens so if they need to run faster, they just do it (in their profiles) and don't need to be convinced to by a Magus. They are happy to take the worship and play along because it suits their overall mission.

Fair enough, but still leaves Genestealers in an awkward spot rules wise.

Yeah. Since half the cults are melee focused, genestealers getting left out hurts those factions significantly.

Bladed cog seems strictly better than rusted claw, unless you really plan on bike spam.

Hivecult only really matters if you for some reason really care about morale, which this entire edition largely doesn't. I guess if you want to run big neophyte blobs for... reasons.

 TonyH122 wrote:
Fair enough, but still leaves Genestealers in an awkward spot rules wise.

I think the fact they can "naturally" move fast, advance, charge, and then hit hard in CC makes them as useful as any amount of <CULT> bonuses are likely to hand out to hybrids. The T4 5++ just makes up slightly from the resilience of larger numbers of cheaper hybrid models. So I think they still hold their own against cheaper, <CULT> boosted acolytes. I definitely wouldn't be happy if I thought taking Purestrains was penalising my army, as they are central to its theme.

On the plus side, I'm glad I don't have to repaint my cult :-)

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:
Is everything really so bleak, when you look at Genestealer Cults?

1.) They die to a stiff breeze, as has already been pointed out.

2.) They are tyranid enhanced bio weapons to overthrow a planets population. So they damn well deserve to be en par with Space Marines in certain ways. Note that they are even not S4 T4.

3.) I find it nice that GW made the GSC an army with a distinct playstyle. Of course this also means they should be able to do, what no one else can.

4.) Why do we have to compare them to Space Marines at all? Most people agree that the Codex SM are currently one of the weakest armies out there. This might very well change in a couple of months, when a new Codex comes out.

Actually I only find the Gunslinger to be broken at the moment. And he is a suicidal weapon.

1.) Numbers. Guardsmen also die easily, Cultists also die easily, dosen't change the fact that they are annoying to deal with.

2.) Which are armed with mining tools and apparantly pistols and sniperrifles that are Dark age of technology style statted and are built in the lower underhive/ somewhere in a dugout in a forest on a backwater.

3.) MHM, we allready had armies that ignore core restrictions, mind you they tended to be a problem, alpha legion f.e. And whilest i agree that the distinction is good, i am still questioning the thought process on some of these rules.

4.) Because Codex SM is vannila flavour and one of the codexes which you can best show that codex creep is happening. You could also pick CSM. Same difference.

Okay. You seem to have a problem of GSC being too strong or what is your problem exactly? I expect them to be pretty hard to master since they are all very squishy and cost more than standard guardsmen. But maybe I am wrong.

I've painted mine as Rusted Claw and thought that T4AE would probably get the best trait as they are the most "famous" cult. Plesently surprised that my cult trait is actually very good, since I regularly play with 50+ Neophytes and this helps them survive longer.

Patriarch wrote:

 TonyH122 wrote:
Fair enough, but still leaves Genestealers in an awkward spot rules wise.

I think the fact they can "naturally" move fast, advance, charge, and then hit hard in CC makes them as useful as any amount of <CULT> bonuses are likely to hand out to hybrids. The T4 5++ just makes up slightly from the resilience of larger numbers of cheaper hybrid models. So I think they still hold their own against cheaper, <CULT> boosted acolytes. I definitely wouldn't be happy if I thought taking Purestrains was penalising my army, as they are central to its theme.

Oh Genestealers are still good, no doubt. It just seems now that you're gimping yourself by not taking a Kraken patrol or battalion with them. One advances 3d6 for 12 points and can fall back and charge. The other gets ambush for +3pts. I don't think there's a contest at this stage of leaks.

How the hell did GSC get agents of Vect at the old original cost? If it needed to be patched to 4CP for DE I can't see how giving it to a faction that easily has double the CP for only 3CP makes sense.

 Red Corsair wrote:
How the hell did GSC get agents of Vect at the old original cost? If it needed to be patched to 4CP for DE I can't see how giving it to a faction that easily has double the CP for only 3CP makes sense.

Don't forget that it isn't limited to once per turn like Vect is as well.

I suspect that it went to print before the last round of FAQ's came out. This better be FAQ'd damn quick or some people are going to get very angry.

Hey all,

So genestealers do not gain any cult bonus or?, bit strange if not.

 Imateria wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
How the hell did GSC get agents of Vect at the old original cost? If it needed to be patched to 4CP for DE I can't see how giving it to a faction that easily has double the CP for only 3CP makes sense.

Don't forget that it isn't limited to once per turn like Vect is as well.

I suspect that it went to print before the last round of FAQ's came out. This better be FAQ'd damn quick or some people are going to get very angry.

Yea, I play both factions, so it isn't a bias thing. In GSC it is objectively better purely based on how they organize. It's so easy to get 20+ CP and with the new characters your almost guaranteed to regen one a turn. Your looking at ~30 CP over a game lol. That's 10 cancels, which obviously won't occur but holy crap lol.

Is there any GSC codex based HQ for the Brood Brothers? Ideally I would like a "pure" Brood Brothers detachment but no option seems available for HQ?

ListenToMeWarriors wrote:
Is there any GSC codex based HQ for the Brood Brothers? Ideally I would like a "pure" Brood Brothers detachment but no option seems available for HQ?

No, I think you'd have to have a "counts as" Primus and give him a commissar hat or something.

Understandable I guess, kind of hard to hide extra arms and genetic mutations under your Imperial garb when the higher ranking officials come visiting.

 Imateria wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
How the hell did GSC get agents of Vect at the old original cost? If it needed to be patched to 4CP for DE I can't see how giving it to a faction that easily has double the CP for only 3CP makes sense.

Don't forget that it isn't limited to once per turn like Vect is as well.

I suspect that it went to print before the last round of FAQ's came out. This better be FAQ'd damn quick or some people are going to get very angry.

Yet more excuses of "off to printers" which is garbage imo. The GSC stratagem uses the ERRATA'D wording from Agents of Vect from the big faq, therefore they simply decided not to make it 4CP.

 Kirasu wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
How the hell did GSC get agents of Vect at the old original cost? If it needed to be patched to 4CP for DE I can't see how giving it to a faction that easily has double the CP for only 3CP makes sense.

Don't forget that it isn't limited to once per turn like Vect is as well.

I suspect that it went to print before the last round of FAQ's came out. This better be FAQ'd damn quick or some people are going to get very angry.

Yet more excuses of "off to printers" which is garbage imo. The GSC stratagem uses the ERRATA'D wording from Agents of Vect from the big faq, therefore they simply decided not to make it 4CP.

Yea, plus if they messed up because on timing/logistics it would be pretty idiotic to highlight it in the preview

I was going to go Blades Cog but a 6++ Invul and Heavy Move+Shoot is kinda eh. Especially since I like the CC aspects of the GSC better.

Seems like Twisted Helix is better?

Cataphract wrote:
I was going to go Blades Cog but a 6++ Invul and Heavy Move+Shoot is kinda eh. Especially since I like the CC aspects of the GSC better.

Seems like Twisted Helix is better?

They are all good. Just pick one that suits your play style. For assault, helix, pauper or 4AE all seem good IMHO.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The frag drill terrain has potential btw. It's only 75pts and apparently indestructible. So you could take three from a fortification network and just vomit mortal wounds across the table. Unless it specifies otherwise you can hit characters too lol. Need to see the actual wording still, but that thing could be scary.

 Red Corsair wrote:
How the hell did GSC get agents of Vect at the old original cost? If it needed to be patched to 4CP for DE I can't see how giving it to a faction that easily has double the CP for only 3CP makes sense.

Most likely just because the time to print books in China and have them back to distribution centers the world over is usually longer than the 3-4 months since the fall FAQ.

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
How the hell did GSC get agents of Vect at the old original cost? If it needed to be patched to 4CP for DE I can't see how giving it to a faction that easily has double the CP for only 3CP makes sense.

Most likely just because the time to print books in China and have them back to distribution centers the world over is usually longer than the 3-4 months since the fall FAQ.

There is no way they would have featured a typo like this on the warhammer community site if they knew it was an error. At least not without mentioning something.

Not Online!!! wrote:

2.) Which are armed with mining tools and apparantly pistols and sniperrifles that are Dark age of technology style statted and are built in the lower underhive/ somewhere in a dugout in a forest on a backwater.

the_scotsman wrote:
Also, do we know whether any of these new characters are Uniques or not? Some of them (like Keller) seem to be in the fluff, or maybe they're a "common cult form" and have the Unique keyword. If they are indeed what GSC get other than "Named Characters" then I'm much more willing to forgive them getting unique powerful stuff. After all, mortal tank commanders like Pask and Longstrike are better shots than space marine tank pilots, Iron Hand straken is stronger than a space marine, etc. And the "bike bimbo" (stay classy 4chan) would be more like the equivalent of Telion (whose sniper rifle is 4x better than a standard marine sniper rifle for some reason) than a random marine scout sniper.

I don't think the profile represents purely the weapon in the waybthese comments are suggesting. Telion doesn't simply have a sniper that is 4x better, his skills are that much greater that he can get more out of a sniper rifle than an initiate. Sure, some of that skill is represented in Telion's profile, but you can only really adjust BS up to 2+, so how do you improve from there?

By giving them a unique weapon profile to show how dangerous they are with that weapon.

It is exactly the same with the GSC characters- the Jackal Alpha and the Kelermorph are innately superb shots, so they are able to get a lot more mileage out of basic equipment. That is why they have "dark age" stats on their stuff. A "liberator autostub" is only special in the hands of a Kelermorph. If a neophyte was using one, it would just be a decent hand cannon. Same with the Atalan sniper- that is how good the sniper rifle is when used by a gene-bred alien specialist who can reliably make headshots. If guardsmen Bob was using it, it would probably just be a standard sniper rifle!