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2019/01/09 22:41:12
Subject: Do you frown upon grey models in matches?
Leo_the_Rat wrote: I play Grey Knights and believe it or not my models are grey. In fact I was playing the other day and someone pointed to my models and said, "See, you don't need to paint your models to play." I then informed them that my models were in fact painted and meant to be the color they are. Embarrassment ensued.
Why? Because you'd also painted their weapons and accessories grey and left their bases unsanded and black? There is zero way this could have happened. Even from afar a grey painted model can clearly be seen that it is painted.
Games Workshop Delenda Est.
Users on ignore- 53.
If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them.
2019/01/09 22:41:47
Subject: Do you frown upon grey models in matches?
Crimson wrote: Everyone's (well, almost everyone's) first models will be badly painted. But that's no reason to not do it; you'll never get better without practice.
And why would I want to put a Clarence on the table just because you want them painted?
Sure one might not get better without practice. However if that person never improves no matter what, they basically continuously ruin models.
Refer to my first post in the thread. Are unpainted models really more immersion breaking than a Clarence? A Clarence is the opposite of having pride in the army.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: I play Grey Knights and believe it or not my models are grey. In fact I was playing the other day and someone pointed to my models and said, "See, you don't need to paint your models to play." I then informed them that my models were in fact painted and meant to be the color they are. Embarrassment ensued.
Why? Because you'd also painted their weapons and accessories grey and left their bases unsanded and black? There is zero way this could have happened. Even from afar a grey painted model can clearly be seen that it is painted.
Unless the person suffers from a certain kind of color blindness.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/09 22:42:33
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2019/01/09 22:43:15
Subject: Do you frown upon grey models in matches?
skchsan wrote:Why would you NOT want to paint your mini's? It's literally 99% of the hobby.
Reemule wrote:Um painting is like 10%, and I might be generous with that.
Stormonu wrote:Uh, it’s not 99% of the hobby, more like 25% or less.
You can't put a definitive number that applies to everyone, because everybody considers what makes up their "hobby" differently. Some players couldn't give two farts about painting, and are purely about the game. A 100/0 Gaming/Hobby split is for them. For others, they've never played a game in their life and just love collecting and painting cool models. That's a 0/100 Gaming/Hobby split.
I'd wager most of us fall somewhere in between those two extremes. To what degree is ours and ours alone to decide. Nobody else can dictate it for you, and it's certainly not worthy of "pity" from others who deem it necessary to impose their concept of the hobby on others.
Stormatious wrote:Modeling ( painting ) goes hand in hand with every thing that is warhammer.
Marketing lies pushed by GW.
JohnnyHell wrote:Don’t we do this thread over again about once a month???
Yeah, this blossoms eternal like the “No Longer Available” threads
What are you talking about, of course it goes hand in hand.
Not when I can pay a commission to have someone build and paint my models for me (like say, Blue Table Painting).
I really wish that GW would offer prebuilt and painted versions of their models - like FFG does for X-Wing or how Dust/AT-43 did/does.
Dude that doesn't mean at all that it does not go hand in hand, your just giving the modeling aspect over to some one else, that doesn't mean ti dissapears.
If my first contact with the model is with it already assembled and painted, then effectively the modeling aspect does not exist for me. Or we’d have to consider buying an action figure at Walmart “modeling” that had been handed over to someone else.
It doesn't exist for you personally but what you have is named a model because the modeling aspect, it arrived unpainted when it was bought in its brand new form, so the modeling aspect still remains with the model just not you personally.
Automatically Appended Next Post: and the model is 40k so yeah
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/09 22:47:43
skchsan wrote:Why would you NOT want to paint your mini's? It's literally 99% of the hobby.
Reemule wrote:Um painting is like 10%, and I might be generous with that.
Stormonu wrote:Uh, it’s not 99% of the hobby, more like 25% or less.
You can't put a definitive number that applies to everyone, because everybody considers what makes up their "hobby" differently. Some players couldn't give two farts about painting, and are purely about the game. A 100/0 Gaming/Hobby split is for them. For others, they've never played a game in their life and just love collecting and painting cool models. That's a 0/100 Gaming/Hobby split.
I'd wager most of us fall somewhere in between those two extremes. To what degree is ours and ours alone to decide. Nobody else can dictate it for you, and it's certainly not worthy of "pity" from others who deem it necessary to impose their concept of the hobby on others.
Well put. This is why I specifically called out hobby and the game itself as two separate entity.
2019/01/09 22:48:56
Subject: Do you frown upon grey models in matches?
Some (many) aspects of the painting process certainly are repetitive and tedious and feel like a chore to me as well. Though there are also aspects which are quite enjoyable. Regardless, I want my models to be painted, and I want them to be painted in the exact way down to the last details, so I need to paint them myself.
But commissioning someone else to paint your models is absolutely fine. As long as the models are painted before they hit the table, I really don't care how it happened.
I went with "I prefer painted mini's, but don't really care" since it's the closest to what I feel. However, I do care. I'll echo what other people have said about wanting to create good-looking scenes on the table, and painted mini's, even to a basic level look good.
I've always held this opinion, and never oppose people playing with grey minis (I do it myself on rare occasion) or proxies.
It's a little tiring, in my local town where people keep buying new armies or just making no effort to paint what they have, and having to play vs a sea of grey or black or white week after week.
I enjoy taking pictures of the games, then sharing it with friends and talking about the games, and it's a personal problem, but I'd prefer if both sides were painted even a little.
Skaven - 4500
OBR - 4250
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2019/01/09 22:53:44
Subject: Do you frown upon grey models in matches?
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: However if that person never improves no matter what, they basically continuously ruin models.
I am an art teacher. Some people are better at these things than others, but everyone can learn.
I am an absolutely gak artist. I can still put down what I feel like is a decently painted army, because applying paint to models using basic techniques and tools is less about being artistic and more about following a procedure. Anyone without serious physical disability can paint to a reasonable standard.
2019/01/09 22:58:04
Subject: Do you frown upon grey models in matches?
vipoid wrote: Same. I'll grant that I'm biased, since I frequently use unpainted/barely-painted miniatures, but many comments here seem unnecessarily hostile towards unpainted miniatures.
Disagree. I think the comments have been excessively considerate and understanding towards people who play with unpainted models, but I suppose the honest truth would attract moderator attention.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2019/01/09 23:00:05
Subject: Do you frown upon grey models in matches?
Another tired old meme that 40k players have run into the ground. Why not wheel out Abaddon having no arms and Dorn having a moustache whilst we're at it? Play all the classics.
Games Workshop Delenda Est.
Users on ignore- 53.
If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them.
2019/01/09 23:00:54
Subject: Do you frown upon grey models in matches?
How long until models are considered even "presentable" though?
Also as a former teacher aide I completely disagree everyone can learn to be good at anything.
This is true, but Crimson and Horst are right about this one. It's not so much about inherent skill or ability so much as it is about developing a system of mechanical techniques. It can take a long time to figure that kind of thing out on your own through blind experimentation, but with a bit of guidance you can cut straight to what works.
2019/01/09 23:01:35
Subject: Do you frown upon grey models in matches?
How long until models are considered even "presentable" though?
Those clarences are presentable. Sure, they're objectively horrid, but at least the person is trying. Next ones will be better. And of course in this internet era tutorials are easy to come by, so getting past the clarence phase doesn't really take much effort at all.
Also as a former teacher aide I completely disagree everyone can learn to be good at anything.
Yeah, let's not pretend that painting is difficult. 99.9% of people are capable of doing a clean base coat + wash, and maybe some drybrushed highlights. The vast majority of people with unpainted armies don't have any disability that would prevent them from painting, they're just lazy.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2019/01/09 23:05:19
Subject: Re:Do you frown upon grey models in matches?
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
2019/01/09 23:06:29
Subject: Re:Do you frown upon grey models in matches?
Peregrine wrote: Yeah, let's not pretend that painting is difficult. 99.9% of people are capable of doing a clean base coat + wash, and maybe some drybrushed highlights. The vast majority of people with unpainted armies don't have any disability that would prevent them from painting, they're just lazy.
I cant believe you just said that... Its hard..... trying to learn how to do all these different techniques, applying perfect width edge highlights, learning how to simply use the brush and paint strokes properly.... dude what are you talking about, learning how to focus and control your brush i mean ...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/01/09 23:08:51
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: However if that person never improves no matter what, they basically continuously ruin models.
I am an art teacher. Some people are better at these things than others, but everyone can learn.
How long until models are considered even "presentable" though?
Also as a former teacher aide I completely disagree everyone can learn to be good at anything.
Thing is a lot of school is actually a pretty rubbish environment to actually - you know - teach people.
Or at least to teach all people all things. Some students learn different ways at different paces and Art subjects highlight this greatly as they also require a period of practice of hand to eye coordination that will hinder any theory learned for a period of time.
I think if a person has determination and a skilled and enthusiastic teacher who is skilled in teaching AND their craft then most people can indeed learn anything. Mostly what they need to invest is structured and guided time and practice. It's why you can get students who will fail most lessons who can later hold down a very skilled specific job - because instead of learning 20 things lightly they are learning 1 thing in a direct manner and doing it for 5 days a week for most weeks of the year.
Art tends to get highlighted as one of those "you have to be born with the skill" subjects, which I personally find, as comment, to be a load of rubbish. No one is born and artist no more than they are born an electrician or a window fitter or an accountant.
Peregrine wrote: Yeah, let's not pretend that painting is difficult. 99.9% of people are capable of doing a clean base coat + wash, and maybe some drybrushed highlights. The vast majority of people with unpainted armies don't have any disability that would prevent them from painting, they're just lazy.
I cant believe you just said that... Its extremely hard..... trying to learn how to do all these different techniques, applying straight lines for highlights, learning how to simply use the brush and paint strokes properly.... dude what are you talking about
Are you serious? You don't need "techniques" to paint to a basic tabletop standard. Put some paint on the model, using the brush to spread it out into a smooth coat instead of just blobbing it on. Cover the whole model in a black wash. If you're feeling really ambitious maybe do a quick drybrush with the original color. We're talking about the equivalent of being able to color within the lines with crayons, not doing museum-quality paintings. GW even provides step by step guides for the entire process.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/09 23:08:45
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2019/01/09 23:08:59
Subject: Re:Do you frown upon grey models in matches?
normally I would say paint them but if for instance its just 5 days past Christmas and they got 50 mini's they don't have enough time so I don't care its more of just the effort thing. I try to paint my models to the highest standard (exept for guardsmen which I use middle because if you want to paint 200 men identically with 3 different colours of edge highlighting be my guest).
I'm dyslexic and thus am bad at spelling and grammar please don't remind me in comments to my posts.
The flesh tearers really like killing so much. In fact they may love it more than inquisitors.
2019/01/09 23:11:17
Subject: Re:Do you frown upon grey models in matches?
Peregrine wrote: Yeah, let's not pretend that painting is difficult. 99.9% of people are capable of doing a clean base coat + wash, and maybe some drybrushed highlights. The vast majority of people with unpainted armies don't have any disability that would prevent them from painting, they're just lazy.
I cant believe you just said that... Its extremely hard..... trying to learn how to do all these different techniques, applying straight lines for highlights, learning how to simply use the brush and paint strokes properly.... dude what are you talking about
Are you serious? You don't need "techniques" to paint to a basic tabletop standard. Put some paint on the model, using the brush to spread it out into a smooth coat instead of just blobbing it on. Cover the whole model in a black wash. If you're feeling really ambitious maybe do a quick drybrush with the original color. We're talking about the equivalent of being able to color within the lines with crayons, not doing museum-quality paintings. GW even provides step by step guides for the entire process.
Well im talking about painting to high standards. What ever man mabey im just slow but i have found it hard over the few months of learning how to perfect many different things.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Learning how to do ware effects etc etc and applying it correctly
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/09 23:11:46
Peregrine wrote: Yeah, let's not pretend that painting is difficult. 99.9% of people are capable of doing a clean base coat + wash, and maybe some drybrushed highlights. The vast majority of people with unpainted armies don't have any disability that would prevent them from painting, they're just lazy.
I can't believe I'm agreeing with Perri, but here we are.
Too many times I've seen players who say "I don't have time to paint" yet they're sitting on their arses at the FLGS doing feth all (not even gaming). They could be spending that time painting yet they won't for some reason. Yes, I know you have slumps in painting then get a burst of activity when you get your mojo but it totally grates when their main excuse is "no time" yet the only time you see them is when they're wasting just that.
edited by ingtaer.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/09 23:18:59
Games Workshop Delenda Est.
Users on ignore- 53.
If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them.
Skaven - 4500
OBR - 4250
- 6800
- 4250
- 2750 
