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Do you find unpainted minis in matches acceptable?
Yes its acceptable, if people cant be bothered painting then who cares
No its unacceptable they are lazy and are annoying
I prefer people have fully painted minis, but dont really care.

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Made in gb
Emboldened Warlock




Widnes UK

I'm not too bothered if it is one or two squads in amongst a lot of painted models. I'm not even talking good painting either, just 2 colours and I don't care about bases.
Monochrome armies are just harder to play against because you can't tell what a unit is at a glance sometimes.
This doesn't mean I won't play against new people with entirely unpainted minis, just as long as it gets done.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/01/10 10:14:08


Ulthwe: 7500 points 
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

 Peregrine wrote:


Because unpainted models look like and I don't want to see them on my table.


I feel the opposite. Most painted miniatures look like gak, especially those ones from dudes who want to go to tourneys since painted models are required there. Just 3-4 colors to make them legal. I regularly see 2000 points armies painted in less than a week, not a single one of them look at least ok-ish.

No, I'd rather play against a full plastic grey army. But it actually doesn't make any difference, as long as the player doesn't use bottles, cans and toys is ok to me.

 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






I am extremely skeptical of this claim that painted armies that look better than bare plastic are at all common. Even the worst painted models I've seen anyone using are still better than nothing.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in jp
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Peregrine wrote:
 Mmmpi wrote:
Obviously we disagree. I feel those are very good reasons.


If "I spent $1,000 on an army but I can't afford $10 for paint" counts as a good reason to you then I don't know what else to say.


I seem to recall spending a bit more than $10 on paints and brushes.

I also don't recall a set price point on what constitutes an army. We could also be talking about two $85 start collecting boxes.

Finally, Paint might be an unnecessary expense after buying say...an alternator, or paying off the hospital fees for an injury.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






I've banged out the Ultramarines from Warhammer Conquest exactly as per the instructions - flat colours for the armour, skin, black weapon casings and pouches, red eyes, robes, cables and seals, Rakarth Flesh for the parchments, skulls and the white areas on the Lieutenant, and the metals are gunmetal with a black wash or gold with a brown wash. Took me hardly any time, minimal skill (just keeping within the lines) and they look vastly better than the bare plastic.

My opinion is that I will only use painted miniatures (unless it's a new game we're trying out) and terrain (just as important). I'd prefer my fellow gamers did the same, but if they're otherwise good company I'll not let it bother me. It does play into who I choose to game with, though. All else being equal, I'll choose to play with the person with a painted army rather than the unpainted one.
   
Made in jp
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Peregrine wrote:


Speak for yourself. I'd rather go home without playing a game than slog through a miserable experience against a horde of gray plastic.


Follow your own logic here. If our standards don't apply to you, why should yours apply to anyone else?

Highway is over there =>
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Mmmpi wrote:
I seem to recall spending a bit more than $10 on paints and brushes.


Probably because you're painting to higher than a tabletop level. To paint to a basic tabletop level you need 1-2 base colors, a skin color, a silver metallic color, and a black/brown wash. That's $10, maybe $20 once you include a brush or two.

I also don't recall a set price point on what constitutes an army. We could also be talking about two $85 start collecting boxes.


Or we could talk about realistic armies, which means 1500-2000 points. But even $250 (don't forget the rulebooks) for the most basic start collecting boxes, well short of the point where you can play a normal game, means that painting supplies are 10% of the cost. If the difference between $250 and $275 is significant to you then you probably can't afford to play at all.

Finally, Paint might be an unnecessary expense after buying say...an alternator, or paying off the hospital fees for an injury.


Again, if your finances are so tight that you can't afford an extra $20 how are you playing this game at all? A single new unit is going to be $50+, on top of the cost of driving to the store to play, getting something to eat while you're out, etc. I have a lot of sympathy for people who are poor and have a budget so tight that an unexpected $20 expense is a big deal, but those people aren't playing 40k.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mmmpi wrote:
Follow your own logic here. If our standards don't apply to you, why should yours apply to anyone else?


Having nicely painted armies on the table does not ruin anyone's enjoyment of the game. Having gray plastic and knowing that your opponent isn't considerate enough to bother painting their stuff does.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/10 11:28:50


There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in jp
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Peregrine wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The Hobby is not universal.


The game, however, involves multiple players. If you want to keep your hobby to yourself and build models without ever painting them, fine. But if you want to play a game involving another person then painting them to a tabletop standard is just basic courtesy. You wouldn't show up for a game without bothering to bring your codex or dice or whatever, so why should it be ok to show up without a finished army?


No, keeping something subjective like this to yourself is basic courtesy. Again, your standards don't necessarily apply to everyone else.
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Mmmpi wrote:
No, keeping something subjective like this to yourself is basic courtesy. Again, your standards don't necessarily apply to everyone else.


Do you apply the same standard and insist that it's wrong to hold everyone to the standard of "bring your codex/dice/etc to the game", and object equally if someone was unwilling to let their opponent play from memory because they refuse to bring their rules?

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






if it was that much of a concern to me, I'd ask up front; "fancy a game?" "Is your army painted?" "er, no" "No thanks, then. That guy there's looking for a game though".

If unpainted miniatures is that much of a detriment to my enjoyment of a game, why shouldn't I refuse to play against them? If that upsets you, then I'm sorry, but it's not discourteous.
   
Made in jp
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Peregrine wrote:
 Mmmpi wrote:
I seem to recall spending a bit more than $10 on paints and brushes.


Probably because you're painting to higher than a tabletop level. To paint to a basic tabletop level you need 1-2 base colors, a skin color, a silver metallic color, and a black/brown wash. That's $10, maybe $20 once you include a brush or two.

I also don't recall a set price point on what constitutes an army. We could also be talking about two $85 start collecting boxes.


Or we could talk about realistic armies, which means 1500-2000 points. But even $250 (don't forget the rulebooks) for the most basic start collecting boxes, well short of the point where you can play a normal game, means that painting supplies are 10% of the cost. If the difference between $250 and $275 is significant to you then you probably can't afford to play at all.

Finally, Paint might be an unnecessary expense after buying say...an alternator, or paying off the hospital fees for an injury.


Again, if your finances are so tight that you can't afford an extra $20 how are you playing this game at all? A single new unit is going to be $50+, on top of the cost of driving to the store to play, getting something to eat while you're out, etc. I have a lot of sympathy for people who are poor and have a budget so tight that an unexpected $20 expense is a big deal, but those people aren't playing 40k.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mmmpi wrote:
Follow your own logic here. If our standards don't apply to you, why should yours apply to anyone else?


Having nicely painted armies on the table does not ruin anyone's enjoyment of the game. Having gray plastic and knowing that your opponent isn't considerate enough to bother painting their stuff does.


Can of primer. $6. Two bottles of paint for base coat. $6 (both). Bottle of wash. $3. Brushes $10+. I'm already 150% over your $10.

We could talk about realistic armies. Which also includes the guy who picked up two start collecting boxes. Not a huge army. Still an army. Rule book optional if he/she's part of a club. Not sure how you can rule out things like cash expensive accidents. Or hell, even a spouse who's putting an expense limit. Oh wait, I do know how. You're moving the goalposts.

How are they playing the game? Well, we're already assuming they got an army. So sudden expenses are a thing. Or maybe it was a gift. Or Ebay. Or, again, as I just said, sudden expenses. I know several people who bought an army, and then lost their job. They were able to play because they a. had an army, and b. were able to get rides to games. Hmmm....seems like it's possible to play 40K while broke, if you already have an army...

--
Oh no! Everyone automatically agrees with Peregrine over what ruins their fun, and what is inconsiderate. Oh wait. We have a 7 page thread that shows there are people who don't agree with you.

   
Made in gb
Emboldened Warlock




Widnes UK

 Peregrine wrote:
 Mmmpi wrote:
No, keeping something subjective like this to yourself is basic courtesy. Again, your standards don't necessarily apply to everyone else.


Do you apply the same standard and insist that it's wrong to hold everyone to the standard of "bring your codex/dice/etc to the game", and object equally if someone was unwilling to let their opponent play from memory because they refuse to bring their rules?


There is a difference between them though, you can play without paint on your models, you can't play without rules, dice or a tape measure.

Ulthwe: 7500 points 
   
Made in jp
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Peregrine wrote:
 Mmmpi wrote:
No, keeping something subjective like this to yourself is basic courtesy. Again, your standards don't necessarily apply to everyone else.


Do you apply the same standard and insist that it's wrong to hold everyone to the standard of "bring your codex/dice/etc to the game", and object equally if someone was unwilling to let their opponent play from memory because they refuse to bring their rules?


Show me in the rules where it says people have to paint their army. Then tell me where I said not using a codex is wrong.

Just because I'm not a fan, doesn't mean they can't do what they like. It just means I'm less likely to play them.

Just like no one is putting a gun to your head and saying you have to play against unpainted armies. Feel free to refuse games.

Just don't make the mistake of assuming your way is the only way.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Man all I have is this image of some grumpy old grognards on the doors of the FLGS .. physically stopping and inspecting the carry cases of younguns as they approach

"Sorry sonny, you call that 3 colours ? ... Get out and don't come back till til you're not a scrub!"

I mean honestly ... how do you even get games outside of the three regulars in the corner that the shop wonders why it lets you stay as your army is already 5,000,000 point strong .. already pro painted and you only ever buy a can of soft drink..

how do they even stay in business with you driving new people away that just want to have fun with cool models
   
Made in fi
Courageous Space Marine Captain






 Mmmpi wrote:

Just like no one is putting a gun to your head and saying you have to play against unpainted armies. Feel free to refuse games.

Has anyone suggesting anything more drastic? Do you think us who prefer to play against painted armies regularly round up people who do not paint their models and lock them up on prison camps not to be released until they have at least 2000 points worth of models painted?

   
Made in is
Angered Reaver Arena Champion





I really don't mind, but I also approach the hobby as two separate things: Painting and Playing. To play I see no need to require that an army be painted. Sure, it would be awesome to see painted armies, but for playing the game I see no need to enforce this.

I also accept the fact that we are not all privileged with time, skill, or ability to paint things immediately or quickly and therefore have no desire to add to this disparity between people who ultimately just want to throw dice and have some fun. For me the social aspect of the entire thing trumps most things.
   
Made in gb
Excited Doom Diver





 Peregrine wrote:
Aelyn wrote:
Why should you get to dictate that I'm not allowed to use my new models for multiple months after I've settled on a list and bought and built the models?


Because unpainted models look like and I don't want to see them on my table. You have painted armies, play with those until you finish the new stuff. You might as well complain that it isn't fair that you can't proxy your army with a bunch of legs on bases because you've settled on a list but shouldn't have to wait a few months until you can afford to buy the models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Aaranis wrote:
when it hurts nobody to face an unpainted army


Speak for yourself. I'd rather go home without playing a game than slog through a miserable experience against a horde of gray plastic.

Again, I have said that I have no problem with you declining a game. But the models are there - there's no question of proxying, everything that needs to be on the model is there. Why do the models need a specific level of paint before they're valid?

Also, my point was largely that lot of people who insist on painted models say "just give them a basecoat / tabletop standard" and accuse anyone who doesn't of being unworthy. I would rather play with unpainted models than a lazy three-colour tabletop scheme; can you at least acknowledge that's a valid perspective, even if you disagree with it?
   
Made in fr
Focused Dark Angels Land Raider Pilot






I think bottom line here is a message we can all take from the General Slim of the Shady Chapter.

Their army motto goes like this...

"Step by Step, Heart to Heart. Left, right, left. We all fall down, like TOY SOLDIERS"

It honestly doesn't matter whether we play against painted or none painted. The painting side is for yourself. At the end of the day we're all playing toy soldiers.

5500
2500 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






Aelyn wrote:
Why do the models need a specific level of paint before they're valid?


Because unpainted models look like , just like random legs on bases. Neither one is finished, neither one is acceptable.

I would rather play with unpainted models than a lazy three-colour tabletop scheme; can you at least acknowledge that's a valid perspective, even if you disagree with it?


Nope. I have never seen an army, even one painted to a basic tabletop standard, that looks worse than bare plastic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Eldarsif wrote:
I really don't mind, but I also approach the hobby as two separate things: Painting and Playing. To play I see no need to require that an army be painted. Sure, it would be awesome to see painted armies, but for playing the game I see no need to enforce this.


Then why enforce playing with models at all, if playing is a separate part of the hobby? Why not use paper cutouts (so you can draw LOS) on bases and save a lot of money?

I also accept the fact that we are not all privileged with time, skill, or ability to paint things immediately or quickly


Painting to a basic tabletop standard takes negligible skill and a small amount of time. Skip a game or two and you can paint your entire army.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/10 12:04:32


There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

It's everyone's game and refusing to play for some reason is perfectly fine and reasonable as all that matters is to have fun. If someone doesn't have fun in playing with/against unpainted miniatures fine, no problem at all, for example I can't stand playing against armies full of proxies and I regularly refuse to play with armies that have a level of optimization that is clearly too different, aka no utterly in-balanced games.


 
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




Reanimation_Protocol wrote:
Man all I have is this image of some grumpy old grognards on the doors of the FLGS .. physically stopping and inspecting the carry cases of younguns as they approach

"Sorry sonny, you call that 3 colours ? ... Get out and don't come back till til you're not a scrub!"

I mean honestly ... how do you even get games outside of the three regulars in the corner that the shop wonders why it lets you stay as your army is already 5,000,000 point strong .. already pro painted and you only ever buy a can of soft drink..

how do they even stay in business with you driving new people away that just want to have fun with cool models

but that there is more or less what happens. Lets say the store runs a rare not 2000pts event. It will always have rules like minimum 5 colours. Same with escalation league. How many people that are starting want to spend 30-40$ on paints instead of models? But the vets will already have those, so they will get max points. So the noobs are more or less paying for the vets prize packs. Big events are the same, aside for veteran players having bigger collections, the armies have to be painted. But who judges if the army is table top, well the tournament orgs who are friends with the veterans, sometimes it is the same guys just switching out for events. So suddenly the mid tier of painting is on the level of a mid tier long time player, and not a mid painting skills of a new player. This means that if a new guy has to pay someone to paint the models to have a good scoring.And who runs the paint studios? Now the vet dudes that sit around the stores. Now how suprising.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in us
Lead-Footed Trukkboy Driver





Wow, ever hear of confirmation bias OP? I don't care if someone has a painted army or not. I care a lot more if they are a fun person to play a game against.

Active armies, still collecting and painting First and greatest love - Orks, Orks, and more Orks largest pile of shame, so many tanks unassembled most complete and painted beautiful models, couldn't resist the swarm will consume all
Armies in disrepair: nothing new since 5th edition oh how I want to revive, but mostly old fantasy demons and some glorious Soul Grinders in need of love 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 AndrewGPaul wrote:
if it was that much of a concern to me, I'd ask up front; "fancy a game?" "Is your army painted?" "er, no" "No thanks, then. That guy there's looking for a game though".

If unpainted miniatures is that much of a detriment to my enjoyment of a game, why shouldn't I refuse to play against them? If that upsets you, then I'm sorry, but it's not discourteous.


It's funny because I agree, but it is odd to find Peregrine on this side of a "I would refuse to play that person" argument, because when you have people refusing to play someone because they have a competitive netlist Peregrine thinks that is Nazi Germany level CAAC Oppression.

I guess you can reserve the right to refuse a game if your opponent's army isn't painted though, and that's fine.

Protip: Warhammer is an opt-in activity. Showing up to a game store with miniatures does not put you under a social obligation to play a game you won't enjoy for four hours.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Karol wrote:
Reanimation_Protocol wrote:
Man all I have is this image of some grumpy old grognards on the doors of the FLGS .. physically stopping and inspecting the carry cases of younguns as they approach

"Sorry sonny, you call that 3 colours ? ... Get out and don't come back till til you're not a scrub!"

I mean honestly ... how do you even get games outside of the three regulars in the corner that the shop wonders why it lets you stay as your army is already 5,000,000 point strong .. already pro painted and you only ever buy a can of soft drink..

how do they even stay in business with you driving new people away that just want to have fun with cool models

but that there is more or less what happens. Lets say the store runs a rare not 2000pts event. It will always have rules like minimum 5 colours. Same with escalation league. How many people that are starting want to spend 30-40$ on paints instead of models? But the vets will already have those, so they will get max points. So the noobs are more or less paying for the vets prize packs. Big events are the same, aside for veteran players having bigger collections, the armies have to be painted. But who judges if the army is table top, well the tournament orgs who are friends with the veterans, sometimes it is the same guys just switching out for events. So suddenly the mid tier of painting is on the level of a mid tier long time player, and not a mid painting skills of a new player. This means that if a new guy has to pay someone to paint the models to have a good scoring.And who runs the paint studios? Now the vet dudes that sit around the stores. Now how suprising.


99% of local events I attend decide paint and sportsmanship scores with a little questionnaire at the end of the round "how courteous was your opponent? How cool was his army painted?"

Where are these events run where some little clique has a snooty private painting judge who always makes the same little group of players win?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/10 12:24:08


"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Karol wrote:
Spoiler:
Reanimation_Protocol wrote:
Man all I have is this image of some grumpy old grognards on the doors of the FLGS .. physically stopping and inspecting the carry cases of younguns as they approach

"Sorry sonny, you call that 3 colours ? ... Get out and don't come back till til you're not a scrub!"

I mean honestly ... how do you even get games outside of the three regulars in the corner that the shop wonders why it lets you stay as your army is already 5,000,000 point strong .. already pro painted and you only ever buy a can of soft drink..

how do they even stay in business with you driving new people away that just want to have fun with cool models

but that there is more or less what happens. Lets say the store runs a rare not 2000pts event. It will always have rules like minimum 5 colours. Same with escalation league. How many people that are starting want to spend 30-40$ on paints instead of models? But the vets will already have those, so they will get max points. So the noobs are more or less paying for the vets prize packs. Big events are the same, aside for veteran players having bigger collections, the armies have to be painted. But who judges if the army is table top, well the tournament orgs who are friends with the veterans, sometimes it is the same guys just switching out for events. So suddenly the mid tier of painting is on the level of a mid tier long time player, and not a mid painting skills of a new player. This means that if a new guy has to pay someone to paint the models to have a good scoring.And who runs the paint studios? Now the vet dudes that sit around the stores. Now how suprising.

Cheers for a measured response Karol, rather than boiling rhetoric.
I wasn't specifically speaking to events ... more the hobby club pickup games environment... but yes if the FLGS runs a tournament and they have a painting baseline requirement stated and a painting score then yes obviously grey plastic men is gonna have a bad day.

for regular games I would expect and encourage a much higher level of tolerance and interaction from those veterans .. the sheer amount of gatekeeping attitude I've seen in just 2 pages of this thread alone (I didn't have the stomach for more) is scary! ... "don't bother showing up unless Den of imagination painted your 2,000 points!"

GW has seen a golden year of new players .. without whom the hobby would be in the same place as Fantasy, with old men bemoaning the death of the game for reasons they can't see through their own myopia.

yes, that attitude to new people playing the game their own way IS the Problem!

so either be a force for change and help those guys either learn to enjoy painting of offer to base coat a few models so they can throw on a wash.

I am not a 20 year 40K veteran ... started playing in earnest mid 7th .. and am eternally grateful that I didn't encounter such horrible examples of hobby snobs.

I guess I got lucky

   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






the_scotsman wrote:
Where are these events run where some little clique has a snooty private painting judge who always makes the same little group of players win?


The same place where (supposedly) the local players threaten to beat up anyone who doesn't concede to them in a tournament, and smashing your opponent's army so they have to forfeit is a perfectly acceptable tournament strategy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
the_scotsman wrote:
because when you have people refusing to play someone because they have a competitive netlist Peregrine thinks that is Nazi Germany level CAAC Oppression.


Hyperbole much? I never said that it's unacceptable to refuse to play against someone when you know their list is much stronger than yours and the game is going to be a one-sided slaughter. CAAC behavior is when someone comes running to the forums to whine and cry about how competitive players are morally wrong and destroying the hobby and how dare they take {insert overpowered unit}. I have nothing against people who want to play games at a reasonable level of list equality. I do have a problem with people who are smug s about how morally superior they are because their list is bad at winning, and then claiming to be "casual" despite their level of obsessive dedication to the game having nothing to do with any conventional definition of the word.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/01/10 12:30:24


There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 Peregrine wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
Where are these events run where some little clique has a snooty private painting judge who always makes the same little group of players win?


The same place where (supposedly) the local players threaten to beat up anyone who doesn't concede to them in a tournament, and smashing your opponent's army so they have to forfeit is a perfectly acceptable tournament strategy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
the_scotsman wrote:
because when you have people refusing to play someone because they have a competitive netlist Peregrine thinks that is Nazi Germany level CAAC Oppression.


Hyperbole much? I never said that it's unacceptable to refuse to play against someone when you know their list is much stronger than yours and the game is going to be a one-sided slaughter. CAAC behavior is when someone comes running to the forums to whine and cry about how competitive players are morally wrong and destroying the hobby and how dare they take {insert overpowered unit}. I have nothing against people who want to play games at a reasonable level of list equality. I do have a problem with people who are smug s about how morally superior they are because their list is bad at winning, and then claiming to be "casual" despite their level of obsessive dedication to the game having nothing to do with any conventional definition of the word.


Welp, saving THIS comment for a rainy day.

Peregrine, in pretty much any thread that's ever come up where it is mentioned that a person who runs a list significantly more competitive than their local meta will most likely have a problem finding a game in the future, you rail against this phenomenon as the epitome of hated CAAC behavior. Generally you equate it to some kind of anti-competitive gamer conspiracy within local play groups, rather than just a large group of individuals who notice that all their games against a certain player end up one-sided and privately decide to stop playing against that person.

Off the top of my head, I'd say you probably said something to this effect two or three dozen times in the first 100-page "But Muh Superheavies" thread by Unit.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in gb
Excited Doom Diver





 Peregrine wrote:
Aelyn wrote:
Why do the models need a specific level of paint before they're valid?


Because unpainted models look like , just like random legs on bases. Neither one is finished, neither one is acceptable.

I disagree with your opinion about the aesthetic quality of unpainted models. But that's just personal preference; you haven't said why they aren't valid.
 Peregrine wrote:
I would rather play with unpainted models than a lazy three-colour tabletop scheme; can you at least acknowledge that's a valid perspective, even if you disagree with it?


Nope. I have never seen an army, even one painted to a basic tabletop standard, that looks worse than bare plastic.

I have, repeatedly. But that's incidental; it's interesting that you refuse to even accept my opinion and preference as valid.

I have already lost the passion for an army that cost me hundreds of pounds as a direct result of the obligation to paint it to a tournament-legal level leading to the paintjob being, in my mind, substandard. I kept playing with it for several months, even trying to touch up and improve the paint scheme to a level I found acceptable, but it was too late; I associated that army with an unpleasant experience, and enjoyed games noticeably less as a result from that point on.

I would rather play with unpainted models and paint them as and when I can than to have a hobby turn into a chore.
 Peregrine wrote:

I also accept the fact that we are not all privileged with time, skill, or ability to paint things immediately or quickly


Painting to a basic tabletop standard takes negligible skill and a small amount of time. Skip a game or two and you can paint your entire army.

You think four to six hours is enough to paint an army, even to basic tabletop standard? I guess it might just about be possible to paint a 1000 point Necron army in that timeframe...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/10 12:40:22


 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





I'm getting a bit more sniffy about it as I slide into grognard senility

I'm one of the weaker (and phenomenally slow) painters in my local nerd herd but between moving to smaller skirmish games and getting a fair bit of my figures done by commission I rarely put unpainted models on the table, last time I think was testing units from an ebay army to figure which ones were worth painting.









This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/10 12:44:06


"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in jp
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Crimson wrote:
 Mmmpi wrote:

Just like no one is putting a gun to your head and saying you have to play against unpainted armies. Feel free to refuse games.

Has anyone suggesting anything more drastic? Do you think us who prefer to play against painted armies regularly round up people who do not paint their models and lock them up on prison camps not to be released until they have at least 2000 points worth of models painted?


Nope, just reaffirming that Peri doesn't have to play anyone.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@the_scotsman


I know, it's hilarious how he doesn't even seem to notice! Or would be if it wasn't frustrating.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Aelyn wrote:
[
I have, repeatedly. But that's incidental; it's interesting that you refuse to even accept my opinion and preference as valid.



Yeah, it's like hitting a brick wall.

Your described painting woes is one reason I'm a slower painter. When I rush it looks bad.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/01/10 12:52:47


 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






the_scotsman wrote:
Off the top of my head, I'd say you probably said something to this effect two or three dozen times in the first 100-page "But Muh Superheavies" thread by Unit.


Odd, because I distinctly remember pointing out that his stubborn insistence on running that exact three-LoW list and shooting down any possible alternative was a problem for his group, and that people are justifiably reluctant to play against an all-or-nothing list like that.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
 
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