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 Latro_ wrote:
I think one of the other reasons chaos use autocannons amongst other things is that they are more reliable easy t maintain and less prone to malfunction... all about that needs to work every time limited resources etc

assault cannons used to explode on you in 2ed

They did in 3rd edition too. If you rolled 3 1's to hit the thing blew up and you couldn't use it any more.

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
Yet they kept using plasma guns, even after they started melting on you. Presumably those are even harder to repair.

if i remember correct chaos plasma cannons in 2ed were worse + could only go on dreads not normal marines owing to the new tech at the time needing lots of cables

2nd edition was basically any entirely different type of game and universe. Most comparisons should be with 3rd Ed and later, imo, when the fluff was more nailed down (then destroyed in 8th!)

 Kirasu wrote:
2nd edition was basically any entirely different type of game and universe. Most comparisons should be with 3rd Ed and later, imo, when the fluff was more nailed down (then destroyed in 8th!)

Yes and no, I think the biggest take away from looking at the 2nd edition codex is that we used to be able to take any loyalist unit, albeit at a premium. The absence of that rule or any sort of alternative is where a lot of the disconnect between the game and lore for chaos come from. In this case the current lore still supports the notion represented by that old rule, but the current rules do not. Its less a comparison and more a root cause analysis. The best example in the previous edition one of the Renegade Astartes Chaos Space Marine armies that had rules, was in the lore described as drop pod assault specialists... could not take drop pods. Similarly any group of marines that went Renegade in the last 1000 years would still have some of the weapons and vehicles that CSM otherwise don't have access to.

Most likely its just a branding thing. However now that they promote a less formal game style in the form of narrative power level games, there is every reason to fix this, even if its only limited to a narrow play style.

That was a cool story. It's a bit of straw clutching, but could it be hinting at traitor Guardsmen being a new unit?

 FunkyBoy wrote:


Speaking of Dark Vengeance Chosen, were they possessed? I can't remember... 'cos the current set of possessed to me, look so silly... so if there are new ones coming out I pray they are bloody good.

The Dark Vengeance Chosen weren't generic Chosen, even though pretty much everyone uses them that way. The models were specifically Crimson Slaughter where their armor, if I remember correctly, had become 'alive' constantly shifting and warping itself into agony screaming and moaning faces presumably from the innocents the Crimson Slaughter had murdered. The only way the armor quieted down was through more killing which after a while the screams and faces would return. At least that is what I remember about the literature that came with the Dark Vengeance boxed set. I only read through it the one time as a friend and I played through the scenarios. I have looked at it since and that was a couple years ago.

If the entire content of the box is released in this week, do you think the box will be available for purchase in april ? Or after that ?

 Tiberius501 wrote:
That was a cool story. It's a bit of straw clutching, but could it be hinting at traitor Guardsmen being a new unit?

"New" unit is a bit of a stretch.

Blackstone Fortress did bring them in after all!

WhiteDog wrote:
If the entire content of the box is released in this week, do you think the box will be available for purchase in april ? Or after that ?

The boxed set is likely to be fully announced this coming Sunday with pre-orders coming a week after. Expect a release date of March 16th.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
That was a cool story. It's a bit of straw clutching, but could it be hinting at traitor Guardsmen being a new unit?

"New" unit is a bit of a stretch.

Blackstone Fortress did bring them in after all!

Just like how the story yesterday mentioned chaos Beastmen (though,I guess tzaangors are still a thing outside blackstone fortress)

 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:

 FunkyBoy wrote:


Speaking of Dark Vengeance Chosen, were they possessed? I can't remember... 'cos the current set of possessed to me, look so silly... so if there are new ones coming out I pray they are bloody good.

The Dark Vengeance Chosen weren't generic Chosen, even though pretty much everyone uses them that way. The models were specifically Crimson Slaughter where their armor, if I remember correctly, had become 'alive' constantly shifting and warping itself into agony screaming and moaning faces presumably from the innocents the Crimson Slaughter had murdered. The only way the armor quieted down was through more killing which after a while the screams and faces would return. At least that is what I remember about the literature that came with the Dark Vengeance boxed set. I only read through it the one time as a friend and I played through the scenarios. I have looked at it since and that was a couple years ago.

I would be very VERY surprised if the miniatures were designed around the Crimson Slaughter lore and not the other way around.

 Kirasu wrote:
2nd edition was basically any entirely different type of game and universe. Most comparisons should be with 3rd Ed and later, imo, when the fluff was more nailed down (then destroyed in 8th!)

That's 1st Ed.

The fluff rationalisation that you're thinking of started in 2nd Ed.

And 2nd Ed Chaos is where the Gets Hot! rule came from.

 Starfarer wrote:

They gave us 80 days notice. They revealed several units from the box set and said the rest would be shown at the end of the countdown. They are giving teasers of kits daily to give an idea of how big this release is, and that extends beyond a starter set.
I'm not sure what else they could do to inform us of when it's coming. We don't know the release date, but we can infer with the countdown coming on a Tuesday, preorders will go up that Saturday or the following Saturday at the latest.

I'm not in a "save up for months" situation (thankfully). More like just a fortnightly budget one, but needing to balance that with the fortnights before and after. Which is why it's so useful to know the date.

I am exercising caution. I want a new black legion army, and combine it with my plague marines, but I don't know if this is going to be all the hype.

I know for sure that GW will not match the quality of forgeworld's chaos models. But I hope they can at least make some good scuplts.

 Starfarer wrote:
They gave us 80 days notice. They revealed several units from the box set and said the rest would be shown at the end of the countdown. They are giving teasers of kits daily to give an idea of how big this release is, and that extends beyond a starter set.

I'm not sure what else they could do to inform us of when it's coming. We don't know the release date, but we can infer with the countdown coming on a Tuesday, preorders will go up that Saturday or the following Saturday at the latest.

That's not entirely fair. They gave us 80 days notice of... something. It could have just been the next Vigilis book for all we know. Or, as many suspected at the time (and is still at least partially true) the new Dooby miniature.

But it wasn't as if they said "Big box coming out in 80 days and we're not going to release anything between then and now so y'all got plenty'o'time to save up!".

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Starfarer wrote:
They gave us 80 days notice. They revealed several units from the box set and said the rest would be shown at the end of the countdown. They are giving teasers of kits daily to give an idea of how big this release is, and that extends beyond a starter set.

I'm not sure what else they could do to inform us of when it's coming. We don't know the release date, but we can infer with the countdown coming on a Tuesday, preorders will go up that Saturday or the following Saturday at the latest.

That's not entirely fair. They gave us 80 days notice of... something. It could have just been the next Vigilis book for all we know. Or, as many suspected at the time (and is still at least partially true) the new Dooby miniature.

But it wasn't as if they said "Big box coming out in 80 days and we're not going to release anything between then and now so y'all got plenty'o'time to save up!".

"Shadowspear is a new battlebox. Like Forgebane, Tooth and Claw and Wake the Dead, you’ll find two armies, ready to fight. But there’s a twist – every single model in the box is a brand-new sculpt. Inside, you’ll find the Chaos miniatures you’ve always wanted, updated and adorned with dark and gothic detail, and pitted against them are the first of the Primaris Vanguard Space Marines."

Shadowspear isn't set on Vigilus though. And the 80 day countdown is for Vigilus, seeing as how it's Haarken's whole spiel. Abaddon isn't going to be included in the battlebox. We know the box will have other contents than what we already know, but the terminator(s) and other HQs (though, it's always possible another Chaos HQ is in the box. Tooth and Claw had an iconward and abominant.) will have to be released separately.

 fraser1191 wrote:
"Shadowspear is a new battlebox. Like Forgebane, Tooth and Claw and Wake the Dead, you’ll find two armies, ready to fight. But there’s a twist – every single model in the box is a brand-new sculpt. Inside, you’ll find the Chaos miniatures you’ve always wanted, updated and adorned with dark and gothic detail, and pitted against them are the first of the Primaris Vanguard Space Marines."

Did they say that 80 days ago?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:
"Shadowspear is a new battlebox. Like Forgebane, Tooth and Claw and Wake the Dead, you’ll find two armies, ready to fight. But there’s a twist – every single model in the box is a brand-new sculpt. Inside, you’ll find the Chaos miniatures you’ve always wanted, updated and adorned with dark and gothic detail, and pitted against them are the first of the Primaris Vanguard Space Marines."

Did they say that 80 days ago?

No, just twenty days ago.

head leak for oblit's




credit to lavozdehorus

That's not the same head, though.

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
That's not the same head, though.

indeed that's a new one
btw here is some gw humor

Alright, that means they read these forums. Who is the mole?! Am I the mole?!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Starfarer wrote:
They gave us 80 days notice. They revealed several units from the box set and said the rest would be shown at the end of the countdown. They are giving teasers of kits daily to give an idea of how big this release is, and that extends beyond a starter set.

I'm not sure what else they could do to inform us of when it's coming. We don't know the release date, but we can infer with the countdown coming on a Tuesday, preorders will go up that Saturday or the following Saturday at the latest.

That's not entirely fair. They gave us 80 days notice of... something. It could have just been the next Vigilis book for all we know. Or, as many suspected at the time (and is still at least partially true) the new Dooby miniature.

But it wasn't as if they said "Big box coming out in 80 days and we're not going to release anything between then and now so y'all got plenty'o'time to save up!".

I think the 80 days notice being specifically Chaos related should have been enough to put CSM players on notice. It was enough to prevent me from buying another faction in the interim(GSC was super tempting), and in that time we've now seen plenty of units to indicate how big of a release this will be.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:

 FunkyBoy wrote:


Speaking of Dark Vengeance Chosen, were they possessed? I can't remember... 'cos the current set of possessed to me, look so silly... so if there are new ones coming out I pray they are bloody good.

The Dark Vengeance Chosen weren't generic Chosen, even though pretty much everyone uses them that way. The models were specifically Crimson Slaughter where their armor, if I remember correctly, had become 'alive' constantly shifting and warping itself into agony screaming and moaning faces presumably from the innocents the Crimson Slaughter had murdered. The only way the armor quieted down was through more killing which after a while the screams and faces would return. At least that is what I remember about the literature that came with the Dark Vengeance boxed set. I only read through it the one time as a friend and I played through the scenarios. I have looked at it since and that was a couple years ago.

I would be very VERY surprised if the miniatures were designed around the Crimson Slaughter lore and not the other way around.

I don't know. Their inclusion into 6th edition could have been any number of things that GW wanted to do. Maybe they were just generic filler villains for the Dark Angels to fight where the writers made up a story to go with their model design like you said. Maybe they meant to be the next big Chaos Space Marine thing and/or be the CSM poster boys but never caught on or something. Maybe they were simply meant to plant idea seeds on how even non-traitor legion CSM could be done. I can't say. Looking into a little more, it seems that GW seemed to want Crimson Slaughter to be a thing, but they never could decide on what that thing was. I also feel that Crimson Slaughter expansions and/or codex may have not sold well enough and/or the player base didn't become abuzz with them.

All I am saying is that the Dark Vengeance fluff was written to explain why the models looked the way they did. The writing spoke of the Chosen in the set like Space Hulk talked of the Terminators giving each one a name and a sentence or two on them. I can't remember if the Dark Angel tactical marines got the same treatment in the set. I painted mine in Black Legion and still use them. Although, I had to have the dual lightning claw one be the Aspiring Champion after GW decided to FAQ out that weapon loadout for non-champion Chosen for some reason. Or they can be count-as Fallen which still can have dual lightning claws even though the Dark Angel Veterans kit doesn't really allow it.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Alright, that means they read these forums. Who is the mole?! Am I the mole?!

This sounds like something a mole would say.

 Starfarer wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Starfarer wrote:
They gave us 80 days notice. They revealed several units from the box set and said the rest would be shown at the end of the countdown. They are giving teasers of kits daily to give an idea of how big this release is, and that extends beyond a starter set.

I'm not sure what else they could do to inform us of when it's coming. We don't know the release date, but we can infer with the countdown coming on a Tuesday, preorders will go up that Saturday or the following Saturday at the latest.

That's not entirely fair. They gave us 80 days notice of... something. It could have just been the next Vigilis book for all we know. Or, as many suspected at the time (and is still at least partially true) the new Dooby miniature.

But it wasn't as if they said "Big box coming out in 80 days and we're not going to release anything between then and now so y'all got plenty'o'time to save up!".

I think the 80 days notice being specifically Chaos related should have been enough to put CSM players on notice. It was enough to prevent me from buying another faction in the interim(GSC was super tempting), and in that time we've now seen plenty of units to indicate how big of a release this will be.

I have actually liked that about this release. It has allowed me to save up some money just in case I like what is offered (and I certainly do). I am not feeling much hype fatigue as when the big reveal happened, I knew I was going to get it just based on the models shown. Whatever else in it probably can't sway me away for that. Since then I have kept an eye on this thread, but I haven't really given it much thought.

As to the waiting, I have been waiting years for sculpt updates (though less years than many other CSM players). The only slight concern I could have is Games Workshop making up brand new but only slightly different data sheets for these models ala Primaris. As in those models we though were Chaos Space Marines, no; those are Heretaris Marines which are clone troops that were never true Astartes filled with lesser deamons and super duper evil. I just wanted updated models to some the stuff that hasn't aged well for years now. I don't really care about the whatever the new stuff just yet. I can wait for the full reveal on the new stuff.

 Apple Peel wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Alright, that means they read these forums. Who is the mole?! Am I the mole?!

This sounds like something a mole would say.

I actually have been named in a recent video on Warhammer TV, so it is possible I am under some form of mind control.

Doesn't Shadowspear take place on Nemendghast, which is in the Vigilis sector?

Haarken was specific in claiming Vigilis(Planet) for Abaddon, I would assume that Shadowspear sets up Vigilis book 2 which will lead to Abaddon being released.

Not sure what the time difference will be between Shadowspear & book 2. next week for previews of big box then maybe a month of filler before the Despoiler.

Haarken world claimer the most underwhelming baddie of all time.