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I wanna see the new psychic discipline spells! The MoP combos very well with the demonic possession strat

So every Vanguard Marine in Phobos armour gets the new keyword and the concealed positions rule. I'd assume this means an updated Riever datasheet in whatever book the Vanguards full rules come in?

Right. So the drop lieutenant doesn't even have a reiver comat knife that would give an extra attack, he just has normal CCW that does absolutely nothing. He however has 'knife fighter' special rule, which means that hit rolls of six generate two hits in melee... So pretty much the same end result than if he just had the reiver knife for one extra attack. Utterly pointless. And someone really spend time to write this CC rule for this character which utterly sucks in melee, because he doesn't have a real melee weapon...

It is also unfortunate that even though the reiver knife and chainsword have identical rules, they're different entries, so you still cannot give the captain the Teeth of Terra...

The Primaris units themselves seem nice, but the characters are a complete fail. The Librarian might be good, depending on the powers. It would be unlikely that they'd be worse than standard librarius powers...

It may just be the perspective, but the picture of the venomcrawler on its data sheet looks smaller than I expected (compared to the CSM standing behind it)

 XT-1984 wrote:
Hotrod thank you for showing us this stuff.

Do you have the datasheet for Obliterators? That'd be awesome.

No problem, it's my pleasure to share them! I sent all of the datasheets to Valrak, and he should be posting them up soon. He just did a stream on all of the datasheets as well!

Sooo, 6 shot, t5, w4 oblits for pl 6....soo 120ish points?
So 240 points for the 12 shots we have now, on 8 t5 wounds instead of 9 t4 wounds.
With the capability to go to 360ish points, wich will be brutal with cacaphony and veterans.
Seems.... Ok? 100 points would be fair also imho

Most of the units seem interesting so far.

 Crimson wrote:
Right. So the drop lieutenant doesn't even have a reiver comat knife that would give an extra attack, he just has normal CCW that does absolutely nothing. He however has 'knife fighter' special rule, which means that hit rolls of six generate two hits in melee... So pretty much the same end result than if he just had the reiver knife for one extra attack. Utterly pointless. And someone really spend time to write this CC rule for this character which utterly sucks in melee, because he doesn't have a real melee weapon...

It is also unfortunate that even though the reiver knife and chainsword have identical rules, they're different entries, so you still cannot give the captain the Teeth of Terra...

The Primaris units themselves seem nice, but the characters are a complete fail. The Librarian might be good, depending on the powers. It would be unlikely that they'd be worse than standard librarius powers...

Where are you seeing this information?

https://imgur.com/a/OpJx7yg

stormcraft wrote:
https://imgur.com/a/OpJx7yg

Thanks

Genuinely disappointed about the eliminators

Suppressors seem awkward but useful

Infiltrators are interesting and I like them

With the exception of the librarian everything else is weird and not in a good way

 fraser1191 wrote:

stormcraft wrote:
https://imgur.com/a/OpJx7yg

Thanks

Genuinely disappointed about the eliminators

Suppressors seem awkward but useful

Infiltrators are interesting and I like them

With the exception of the librarian everything else is weird and not in a good way

Just how chaos likes it!

My thought is that those datasheets are exclusives to Shadowspear so the actual units may have more build options available. So it is not set in stone just yet.

But I also think that this sets miniatures are monopose. The fact that none of those units don't have any options avaible kinda leads in that direction.

Hotrod wrote:
I'm back again today with something new for everybody! Here's a look at the Infiltrator datasheet!

those infiltrators are damn sexy! 12" no-reinforce is the ultimate backline objective grabber. I'm looking forward to exchange my scouts for them

Sotahullu wrote:
My thought is that those datasheets are exclusives to Shadowspear so the actual units may have more build options available. So it is not set in stone just yet.

But I also think that this sets miniatures are monopose. The fact that none of those units don't have any options avaible kinda leads in that direction.

If I remember rightly, Forgebane only had the data sheets for one build of the multi build kits that were included.

 Grimskul wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:

stormcraft wrote:
https://imgur.com/a/OpJx7yg

Thanks

Genuinely disappointed about the eliminators

Suppressors seem awkward but useful

Infiltrators are interesting and I like them

With the exception of the librarian everything else is weird and not in a good way

Just how chaos likes it!

Ha

This is GWs master plan, sell me Primaris, release a 2nd wave of cool but bad models beside sexy new chaos models. Perhaps he is a false emperor?


Edit: what would be the math for the new bolt carbine?

The best thing about datasheets are the slight teases of the new models. They're mostly blurry, but you can still get glimpses of the new models

so 1PL = 20pt usually...…

The chaos stuff seems mostly extremely to highly points, and in general not all that useful unless the new spells are boss for the demon caster.

The marine stuff is so so, except for the sniper/eliminator units...at 3 PL= 60pts they will be extremely good at killing characters esp with a vindicare in suppot

1PL anywhere between 15-20 points. So for example the infiltrators say 5 PL, but they could be 17ppm.

The chaos stuff really hope it isn't a direct 20pt per PL, those oblits should be ~105 or 110 points. 120 is a tad too steep. Same for the venom crawler, not great at 140 but anywhere between 125-130 wouldn't be bad.

Venom crawler is worse than a dread at the moment, so it better be around the 80-100pt mark, those stats a do not warrant any higher a cost.

 Formosa wrote:
Venom crawler is worse than a dread at the moment, so it better be around the 80-100pt mark, those stats a do not warrant any higher a cost.

It does have a built in heal ability, which helps with the degrading statline.

 Formosa wrote:
Venom crawler is worse than a dread at the moment, so it better be around the 80-100pt mark, those stats a do not warrant any higher a cost.

At 9 wounds with no degradation I could see an argument for 140

Yeah the entire primaris force seems clunky, but some units are usable - the infiltrator squad, the captain and lieutenant. I'm sad we don't have access to the two new disciplines.

I'd be willing to bet that these are Shadowspear only models, and that we will be seeing new Codexes for both Marines and CSM in the coming months, with the full kits.

Compare 120 points Obliterators or 140 point Venomcrawlers to a 140 point Plagueburst Crawler and I can see myself saving a lot of money on this release.

WhiteDog wrote:
Yeah the entire primaris force seems clunky, but some units are usable - the infiltrator squad, the captain and lieutenant. I'm sad we don't have access to the two new disciplines.

How is the lieutenant useful? He's a complete joke character. At least the captain has the anti-DS bubble.

 Crimson wrote:

WhiteDog wrote:
Yeah the entire primaris force seems clunky, but some units are usable - the infiltrator squad, the captain and lieutenant. I'm sad we don't have access to the two new disciplines.

How is the lieutenant useful? He's a complete joke character. At least the captain has the anti-DS bubble.

He can deepstrike, it's the only primaris lieutenant that can.
As I see it the lieutenant can be a bubble for deep striking inceptor and that's it. He has no role beside that.

The captain is not glorious, but compared to all the other primaris captain he is the best : his weapon is arguably the best, he has one more attack, the ability to deepstrike and the andi ds bubble, without any downside.
To be fair, it just shows how primaris are useless at the moment.

 Togusa wrote:
I'd be willing to bet that these are Shadowspear only models, and that we will be seeing new Codexes for both Marines and CSM in the coming months, with the full kits.

Yup I agree, this is exactly like forgebane, same timing too I think. I bet all the points etc. are out of date to the box set and are not reflective of CA18 point decreases like forgebane as well. I am betting that is why options we saw in leaked pics from DE are not appearing either.

I am just enjoying the mechanics and rules, not too fussed over the points just yet since they will probably change.

WhiteDog wrote:

He can deepstrike, it's the only primaris lieutenant that can.

And then what? Better to use the points on more Inceptors instead.

 Crimson wrote:

WhiteDog wrote:

He can deepstrike, it's the only primaris lieutenant that can.

And then what? Better to use the points on more Inceptors instead.

You're not wrong

I thought GW usually does a Community article on Saturdays? Did a Canadian steal their thunder? Have they become shook?