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2019/03/03 19:30:24
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
Crimson wrote: Right. I think I'll have to wait to see what's in the multipart kits then. I have nothing against ETB models per se, DI ones were perfectly fine, it is just that I want to know whether the full kits have some gear options or cool bits I'd rather have.
Also, it seems super weird to me that Suppressors are full jump troops with fly, as the models do not really seem to have proper thrusters unlike all other marine jump troops.
Technically, all Marine power armour from MkII onwards have thrusters- that is what the spheres on each side the power packs are. However, they are usually only powerful enough for use in void operations.
But these guys have antigrav gear, so the pack thrusters should be sufficient?
Then why the hell do Inceptors have a giant-ass rockets bolted on their back then?
Inceptors are in Gravis Armor, and have a rule that makes them do mortal wound on charge to represent the massive power of their thrusters. Those guys are in phobos armor, the lighter of all mk X armor. Just totally different.
I wonder if they will make a new codex space marine or a codex vanguard. Because if they do make a new codex space marine, won't it means that they will have to create new dark angels, blood angels and space wolf codexes too ?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/03 19:33:54
2019/03/03 19:33:37
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
Crimson wrote: Right. I think I'll have to wait to see what's in the multipart kits then. I have nothing against ETB models per se, DI ones were perfectly fine, it is just that I want to know whether the full kits have some gear options or cool bits I'd rather have.
Also, it seems super weird to me that Suppressors are full jump troops with fly, as the models do not really seem to have proper thrusters unlike all other marine jump troops.
Technically, all Marine power armour from MkII onwards have thrusters- that is what the spheres on each side the power packs are. However, they are usually only powerful enough for use in void operations.
But these guys have antigrav gear, so the pack thrusters should be sufficient?
Then why the hell do Inceptors have a giant-ass rockets bolted on their back then?
Gravis Armor is thicc. Like, Terminator heavy. You need a lot more thrust power to move it.
2019/03/03 19:36:12
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
Remember when you were 12 and that one guy that was a bit of a *** claimed all his Terminators had jump packs and heavy weapons.
That guy works for GW now as a model maker........
They have taken primaris and somehow added more dumb. The basic guys all look like their armour skipped leg day. Mr shouty stealth captain! The only passable model is the librarian, mainly because his cloth covers most of the dumb up.
The chaos guys on the other hand look Ok, but if blackstone fortress is any thing to go by they will all be out of scale with the rest of the chaos range.
it's the quiet ones you have to look out for. Their the ones that change the world, the loud ones just take the credit for it.
2019/03/03 19:39:46
Subject: Re:Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
While its disapointing(to me) that the Shadow Spear models are in the style of the Dark Imperium mono builds. If the follow up range of releases with there full kits are anything like what the Deathguard and Primaris got......
2019/03/03 19:41:31
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
I will make use of both halves to expand my chaos marines and to get some allies for my custards, so I'm on board with the box set, but knowing they're easy build rather than the normal kits does make me feel a little robbed daft as it sounds?
2019/03/03 19:44:49
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
Price lists will go to retailers in the next day or 2 but I'd be very surprised if it wasn't £95 like the other box sets
Speaking for myself:
This set really had better be cheaper than the other "Battlebox" boxed sets. Those are full kits at a discounted price, rather than what we now have been told is all Dark Imperium style simplified builds with 0 options.
$130 is, IMO, around what this one should sit at. Same price as Killteam and Rogue Trader are. $160 for this would feel a bit too much considering it's not full kits, there's no full rulebook for 40k in there, etc.
2019/03/03 19:48:45
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
Crimson wrote: Right. I think I'll have to wait to see what's in the multipart kits then. I have nothing against ETB models per se, DI ones were perfectly fine, it is just that I want to know whether the full kits have some gear options or cool bits I'd rather have.
Also, it seems super weird to me that Suppressors are full jump troops with fly, as the models do not really seem to have proper thrusters unlike all other marine jump troops.
Technically, all Marine power armour from MkII onwards have thrusters- that is what the spheres on each side the power packs are. However, they are usually only powerful enough for use in void operations.
But these guys have antigrav gear, so the pack thrusters should be sufficient?
Then why the hell do Inceptors have a giant-ass rockets bolted on their back then?
Inceptors are in Gravis Armor, and have a rule that makes them do mortal wound on charge to represent the massive power of their thrusters. Those guys are in phobos armor, the lighter of all mk X armor. Just totally different.
I wonder if they will make a new codex space marine or a codex vanguard. Because if they do make a new codex space marine, won't it means that they will have to create new dark angels, blood angels and space wolf codexes too ?
Crimson wrote: Then why the hell do Inceptors have a giant-ass rockets bolted on their back then?
Anti grav assisted is probably a lot quiter than the full turbines Inceptors use. While it wont make any difference once the shooting starts, it does fit with the Vanguards recon/comando background.
Inceptors drop in from orbit (metoric descent), are in gravis armour and I would assume loud as f__k. Reivers drop out of overlords in atmosphere (apparently Valkyries, wtfGW), the extra shielding on the head of the inceptors is to mitigate heat buildup during trans-atmospheric entry.
Suppressors just use the grav chutes and and antigravitic plates to maneuver quietly into position and stabilize the gun for more accurate shots.
I really like the poses and am looking forward to using both this box and eventual full kits. I'm only really worried about the eliminators for changing poses, I really hope there is a marine in the prone position.
The chaos stuff is cool and I may hold onto the minis until I know what happens with the (hopeful) IIIrd legion stuff.
2019/03/03 19:52:52
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
MajorWesJanson wrote: All they need to do is throw in some dice, and a rule pack, and it is just a replacement for DI
Not really, though. The 2 army boxes have come with just the same short rules you can download for free. While we can debate the usefulness of the hardcover rulebook, you kind of need the army building and scenario rules in it, and by default the Dark Imperium box. Sets like Tooth & Claw and Wake the Dead were not really true beginner sets. You only got the short rules there. This set needs to have a full rulebook to rival Dark Imperium.
2019/03/03 19:54:33
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
WhiteDog wrote: I wonder if they will make a new codex space marine or a codex vanguard. Because if they do make a new codex space marine, won't it means that they will have to create new dark angels, blood angels and space wolf codexes too ?
Hard to say. Including the BA, SW and DA chapter tactics wouldn't be much of a problem. Stuff like relics, and stratagems would take up a lot of space. Although they could always include only Primaris specific ones and then say refer to the relevant chapter book for a expanded selection.
The Death Watch's mixed squads would be more of a problem though.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/03 19:56:06
2019/03/03 19:55:03
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
Tamereth wrote: Remember when you were 12 and that one guy that was a bit of a *** claimed all his Terminators had jump packs and heavy weapons.
They could in Rogue Trader and nuGW is pretty damn nostalgia driven...
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2019/03/03 19:57:03
Subject: Re:Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
warboss wrote: Wow...flying primaris with oversized galoshes wielding autocannons. That's the 40k miniatures equivalent of bad fan fiction. I hope someone ends up modelling a shark fin or head under each of them.
Crimson wrote: Right. I think I'll have to wait to see what's in the multipart kits then. I have nothing against ETB models per se, DI ones were perfectly fine, it is just that I want to know whether the full kits have some gear options or cool bits I'd rather have.
Also, it seems super weird to me that Suppressors are full jump troops with fly, as the models do not really seem to have proper thrusters unlike all other marine jump troops.
Technically, all Marine power armour from MkII onwards have thrusters- that is what the spheres on each side the power packs are. However, they are usually only powerful enough for use in void operations.
But these guys have antigrav gear, so the pack thrusters should be sufficient?
Then why the hell do Inceptors have a giant-ass rockets bolted on their back then?
Inceptors are in Gravis Armor, and have a rule that makes them do mortal wound on charge to represent the massive power of their thrusters. Those guys are in phobos armor, the lighter of all mk X armor. Just totally different.
I wonder if they will make a new codex space marine or a codex vanguard. Because if they do make a new codex space marine, won't it means that they will have to create new dark angels, blood angels and space wolf codexes too ?
They're in the Shadowspear box and are most likely not full codices, just like Dark Imperium.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
2019/03/03 20:02:53
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
Yeah, mini dexes like the ones in Kill Team Rogue Trader - covering only the models given, built exactly as shown, with no options or other unit sizes possible beyond precisely what they give you in the box.
2019/03/03 20:03:43
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
Probably about £95, same as Dark Imperium. I mean the Primaris seem to fit this bill easily - 10 Troops (Intercessors/Infiltrators), a unit of jump pack guys (Inceptors/Suppressors), long ranged heavy firepower (Hellblasters/Eliminators), a Captain, a Lieutenant, and a support character (Librarian/Ancient).
There are less Primaris (no second Lieutenant, and two fewer Eliminators) but I imagine that's because the Chaos side is larger.
Tamereth wrote:They have taken primaris and somehow added more dumb. The basic guys all look like their armour skipped leg day.
Because it's armour designed for mobility and stealth? I don't see the issue with it.
Mr shouty stealth captain!
Because battles never escalate, and there's never any situation for a leader to shout orders during a battle.
From how I see it, the whole "stealth" part of these guys is them getting into position, and *maybe* in how they fight ambushes and smaller skirmishes. This battle here, with the enemy leader of this world, and a Daemon engine in tow, is not that, and it's totally likely that Acheran may need to shout mid-firefight.
Invul wrote:It’s nice to see some black guys painted up among those Primaris. I count three.
Agreed. I've noticed non-white popping up more and more in GW's paint schemes, and I must say, about time. Good on you, whoever's painting them.
MajorWesJanson wrote:All they need to do is throw in some dice, and a rule pack, and it is just a replacement for DI
It literally is. I don't understand why people were expecting anything other than that. All this complaining of monopose, even though big packs like these have been monopose for decades, is baffling.
Ordana wrote:Scroll down.
The Daemonkin and Vanguard "codexes" aren't full codexes. They're more like the starter ones that we also got in Dark Imperium - they won't be standalone forces, but rather the minimum amount necessary to add these guys into your existing armies. There may be an update to the codexes soon, but these won't be full armies in their own right (aka, there won't be a difference between Codex: Space Marines and Codex: Vanguard. Van will just be an update to Space Marines)
They/them
2019/03/03 20:04:48
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
Price lists will go to retailers in the next day or 2 but I'd be very surprised if it wasn't £95 like the other box sets
Speaking for myself:
This set really had better be cheaper than the other "Battlebox" boxed sets. Those are full kits at a discounted price, rather than what we now have been told is all Dark Imperium style simplified builds with 0 options.
$130 is, IMO, around what this one should sit at. Same price as Killteam and Rogue Trader are. $160 for this would feel a bit too much considering it's not full kits, there's no full rulebook for 40k in there, etc.
That is kinda the conclusion I came to. Looking at the contents, I really want the CSM. I like the Oblitrators and the Master of Possession but only enough as to influence picking up a boxed set. The Vemon Crawler and Possessed are a nice addition but nothing I would generally want. The Space Marine side has even less that I really want. There decent bit that would work well expand my Raptor Chapter, but there is a lot of repeats and even some, frankly, embarrassing looking models in there that I don't know if I could bring them out in public.
I think $130 US is a good price for the set and an easy purchase from me. I figure $150 US with a decent discount is my limit which basically brings it back to $130 again. If it goes for $160, I'm out. I will wait for potential separate kits of just the stuff I really want. After all, there is more CSM coming out that will get added to the painting pile. I do get the feeling that GW think the anticipation of the set is going to allow them to charge DI prices given all the books (edit: booklets) in it. I don't know if that is really going to work out for them. I could easily see this box set not doing well at that price point where I might find a decent deal in late November which is what I probably will do if it is $160.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/03 20:09:12
2019/03/03 20:12:08
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
Sgt_Smudge wrote: From how I see it, the whole "stealth" part of these guys is them getting into position, and *maybe* in how they fight ambushes and smaller skirmishes. This battle here, with the enemy leader of this world, and a Daemon engine in tow, is not that, and it's totally likely that Acheran may need to shout mid-firefight.
But do they stealthily shoot bolters at their opponent, stealthy splattering the surroundings with the blood of their enemies when the bolts stealthy explodes inside of people's body, with stealth ?
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
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2019/03/03 20:15:25
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
2019/03/03 20:24:42
Subject: Re:Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
Right, Not sure about the full box set but I will look into get the Primaris half and the spider. Models look great and I need these to bump my Spacewolves and Deathguard.
Primaris look to be gearing towards Infantry only armies though.
I wonder how many Primaris points you would get from Dark Imperium plus this box set. Building armies dont cost that much if you can get them in with these deals.
The suppressors look ridiculous. Everything else is fantastic... If I were to buy into the Primaris thing at this point, it would be for a Vanguard/Reiver force.
The Chaos lot is pretty sweet, too. Love those Possessed.
2019/03/03 20:26:57
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
Hmmm... I don't see the traitor marine leak-previewed with the drum fed auto gun (image 2 in the op), so assume this will feature in the multipart kit box?
2019/03/03 20:31:18
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
MajorWesJanson wrote:All they need to do is throw in some dice, and a rule pack, and it is just a replacement for DI
It literally is. I don't understand why people were expecting anything other than that. All this complaining of monopose, even though big packs like these have been monopose for decades, is baffling.
Ordana wrote:Scroll down.
The Daemonkin and Vanguard "codexes" aren't full codexes. They're more like the starter ones that we also got in Dark Imperium - they won't be standalone forces, but rather the minimum amount necessary to add these guys into your existing armies. There may be an update to the codexes soon, but these won't be full armies in their own right (aka, there won't be a difference between Codex: Space Marines and Codex: Vanguard. Van will just be an update to Space Marines)
However, for decades they have, all last year the boxes that they said this is like (Forgebane etc), were not like it.
So can quite see why it was unknow in this case.
I’m not sure they’d update the books soon as you’d get these codexes that would Bolt to your current one really.
If it wasn’t for the fact that SM seems to be in need of one and has had potential rumours of getting one soon, then I’d say they just leave it and you buy this box to get the models and rules, with it saying change <....> to your faction or something.
Only thing throwing that off is if they release multi part later, would each data sheet just say usable with x,y,z codexes without breaking the single faction rule thing people bang on about.. (I don’t do tournaments etc so I forget what it’s called.. battle forged?)
2019/03/03 20:40:27
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
It's easier than that, they just need to add the keywords Adeptus Astartes and <chapter> and they can be used in any SM detachment as any other unit, as they would be the same faction.
However, I expect special rules inthose codexes for only vanguard detachments.
2019/03/03 20:44:34
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
?
