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If only they had a titan killing ability >.>

But I doubt theyll cost 110-130ppm, thats entering Dreadnought territory.

While Power levels have become skewed with points changes, particularly on units with options and thus variable points costs, I genuinely cannot think of a unit with a set points cost (i.e. with either no options, or options that all cost the same) that doesn't come within 10-15 points of its Power Level x20.
I'm sure there are exceptions, but PL6 on a model without varying options has a VERY good chance of being 110-130pts
That's why I truly think this change to Oblits is a nerf mascarading as a buff. I think they'll still be good units with really cool models that have lots of conversion opportunities, but they won't be showing up in top tourney Chaos lists anymore

-

 Galas wrote:

 Galef wrote:
Not convinced the new Oblits are better. Even with +1T, +1W and 6 shots, it looks like they're also substantially more expensive.
I've seen a leak of the datasheet and they are Power Level 6 for 1 Oblit.

That's right, you can take them in units of 1 again. But they've got to be close to twice the cost not considering the were PL10 for 3 model.
At PL6 per model, they've got to be at least 110-125ppm.

-

I think their place will change from "Drop a unit of 9 and kill whatever you are shooting at" to maybe a couple of units of 1 to drop, kill something weaker and then cap objetives or something.

Will they be good enough at that? We'll see. But I doubt theyll cost 110-130ppm, thats entering Dreadnought territory.

Problem is we don't know the Malefic powers, if we knew what they were we could probably have a better answer. I do agree they will probably not be a suicide unit any more.

They are PL 6 which which from a PPM perspective means average 120 and ranges from 110 to 129. So they will probably be around that. Yes, Helbrutes cost about the same, but they lack the Daemon keyword, can't DS, get half the shots, are harder to stick in cover, and have Heavy Weapons.

 Galef wrote:

But I doubt theyll cost 110-130ppm, thats entering Dreadnought territory.

While Power levels have become skewed with points changes, particularly on units with options and thus variable points costs, I genuinely cannot think of a unit with a set points cost (i.e. with either no options, or options that all cost the same) that doesn't come within 10-15 points of its Power Level x20.
I'm sure there are exceptions, but PL6 on a model without varying options has a VERY good chance of being 110-130pts
That's why I truly think this change to Oblits is a nerf mascarading as a buff. I think they'll still be good units with really cool models that have lots of conversion opportunities, but they won't be showing up in top tourney Chaos lists anymore

-

Most of the Admech book is way off the 15-20pt power limit. Granted most of them have changed price. Acolytes though in the most recent book are 11.66pts per PL. Neophytes are 12.5pts per PL. They seem to flex from 10-20pts per PL which is pretty broad. If we're sitting at 75-80pts per oblit we'll be good. If not then the unit won't see much play.

 Hulksmash wrote:

 Galef wrote:

But I doubt theyll cost 110-130ppm, thats entering Dreadnought territory.

While Power levels have become skewed with points changes, particularly on units with options and thus variable points costs, I genuinely cannot think of a unit with a set points cost (i.e. with either no options, or options that all cost the same) that doesn't come within 10-15 points of its Power Level x20.
I'm sure there are exceptions, but PL6 on a model without varying options has a VERY good chance of being 110-130pts
That's why I truly think this change to Oblits is a nerf mascarading as a buff. I think they'll still be good units with really cool models that have lots of conversion opportunities, but they won't be showing up in top tourney Chaos lists anymore

-

Most of the Admech book is way off the 15-20pt power limit. Granted most of them have changed price. Acolytes though in the most recent book are 11.66pts per PL. Neophytes are 12.5pts per PL. They seem to flex from 10-20pts per PL which is pretty broad. If we're sitting at 75-80pts per oblit we'll be good. If not then the unit won't see much play.

Because upgrades that do not cost PL but cost points are factored into the PL.

Look for units with no upgrades and you will find that most of them are between 15.1 points per power level and 24.9 usually.

But then the recosting of units in CA isn't taken into consideration with PL, which in my mind kinda defeats the entire point of the PL situation.

And also this:


If only...

I think they all look pretty good. I think the problem is it’s hard to judge these models from photos. I thought the primaris marines from DI were dumb looking until I actually saw them painted in person. I was totally sold at that point. And now all of the old style marines look “dated” to me.

I’ll be buying at least 2 boxes.

GG

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
But then the recosting of units in CA isn't taken into consideration with PL, which in my mind kinda defeats the entire point of the PL situation.

Spoiler:

And also this:

If only...

See, that looks kinda awesome. I really can't see why the Primaris fly/jump units don't have the huge jump packs and assault units have. That is more than enough to visually on the tabletop to show they have FLY. Having them ground based and braced to shoot is the pose I want. Not looking like they they got gut punched or are flying back or cartoonishly flopping about with a fire hose looking weapon.

Power level also has a factor for utility.

Such as,
Deep strike/deployment options
Upgrades- units with lots of upgrade options have high PL.

 Galef wrote:
Not convinced the new Oblits are better. Even with +1T, +1W and 6 shots, it looks like they're also substantially more expensive.
I've seen a leak of the datasheet and they are Power Level 6 for 1 Oblit.

That's right, you can take them in units of 1 again. But they've got to be close to twice the cost not considering the were PL10 for 3 model.
At PL6 per model, they've got to be at least 110-125ppm.

-

Perhaps, but being able to be taken as single model units again means that 3 can fill out a relatively cheap Spearhead.

I'm banking on these being somewhere between 90-100 pts a model and for what they have I'm fine with that.

Found this pic, you can identify all the released pics with this one.

Not feeling the space marine side AT ALL. They don’t feel 40k to me. Don’t look like space marines to me. And that the box is designed ala Dark Imperium makes this an easy pass.

Maybe I missed it but why only 2 obliterators?

The chaos models look pretty decent, at least the marines and the spider. I'll probably pick up a box and trade away the primaris.

 ScarletRose wrote:
Maybe I missed it but why only 2 obliterators?

The chaos models look pretty decent, at least the marines and the spider. I'll probably pick up a box and trade away the primaris.

2 obits were what could fit on the sprues.

Straight away 4 are already missing and that's just what I noticed in the first 3 seconds.

- power fist with claws (possibly either Abbadon himself or a terminator kit)
- lance chain blade
- hull mounted flamer/laser (either a variant of the venomcrawler or a new Daemon Engine entirely)
- Heavy Bolter

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 ScarletRose wrote:
Maybe I missed it but why only 2 obliterators?

The chaos models look pretty decent, at least the marines and the spider. I'll probably pick up a box and trade away the primaris.

2 obits were what could fit on the sprues.

Huh, that's pretty bad then since it means I'll have to do some heavy converting to get more than a bunch of clones of two poses.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
But then the recosting of units in CA isn't taken into consideration with PL, which in my mind kinda defeats the entire point of the PL situation.

And also this:


If only...

seems like an easy conversion. Thank god I have a massive bitz box.

They look so much better with the normal jump packs.

With the jump pack at least its not as awkward, if on the ground at all seems far more incumbent to the character of the model. He should look fine if we cut down the barrel to like a half of its size.

The helmet looks fine overall but him bracing and firing makes more sense. As I don't actually see them firing while in the air.

If they did they would probably be pushed by the force of the cannon, they would flying all over the place and would have to waste a lot of resources to keep them in the air, which makes no sense this is an infantry not a jump pack infantry, This is especially worrying in a vacuum he would probably fire and would lose course entirely because of the force fired upon from the gun.

See with the original jump pack marines they had chainswords and bolt pistols they made some sense. Their job was to drop in and slaughter things in close combat that makes sense. This not so much.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NurglesR0T wrote:

Spoiler:

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:
Found this pic, you can identify all the released pics with this one.

Straight away 4 are already missing and that's just what I noticed in the first 3 seconds.

- power fist with claws (possibly either Abbadon himself or a terminator kit)
- lance chain blade
- hull mounted flamer/laser (either a variant of the venomcrawler or a new Daemon Engine entirely)
- Heavy Bolter

To add to this the flaming skuill icon, the book, the spikes of the guys.

The low hanging spike and skulls, the dragon symbol. The Talon is sword like and isn't the venomcrawler. The Lightning claw is also missing still.

The lectern with candles... And the other flaming skull are all missing still.

The Autocannon is different to the one in the box too.

Which would explain the two different Autocannons we've seen.

 ImAGeek wrote:
The Autocannon is different to the one in the box too.

Oh your right there is a third barrel on the sneak peak. Dang your correct.

I had to double look twice but yes the shadowspear autocannon is missing the bar on the bottom. And knife is far more 'wicked' than the shadowspear one.

Hoping its chaos termies then.

Or the Bringers of Despair which have been needing representation in 40k as the deathguard have their own elite 'termie' unit. So it would make sense Abaddon would have his bodyguards finally.

Dread Master wrote:
Not feeling the space marine side AT ALL. They don’t feel 40k to me. Don’t look like space marines to me. And that the box is designed ala Dark Imperium makes this an easy pass.

I think GW is retiring a lot of the Gothic over-the-topness of the setting. Gone are the warrior monks of old, replaced by these Master Chief looking guys. Personally, I've started chiseling off the aquilas from my formerly-loyalist Eternity Wardens. The Imperium has turned its back on them, so now they're returning the favor.

The Suppressors have a really unfortunate look, however. Their silhouette is very messy, and the lack of traditional jump packs is weird. At least the Infiltrators look coherent.

What's really tripping me out is the last image on the rumor thread cause I know exactly what it is but I'm not sure why its there. Not exactly the same but the similarity is uncanny.

 insaniak wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
I prefer the decreased about of bling and gothic on the marines myself. I started the game way back in second edition before that really started to creep so heavily into it, and it’s just been a long slow flanderization of their themes over the years. I appreciate them going back to the basics and cutting extraneous stuff off.

I think there's room for both - 'clean' power armour does look awesome, but I'm also a fan of the Black Templar 'If you like it then you should have put a candle on it' approach to armour decor.

Also, IMO anyway, there's a pretty hefty difference between "clean" power armour as-was, and the Primaris "all Tacticool, all the time" look. They really do look like they came out of one of those various fan projects to "rewrite 40K as a more reasonable setting". Or Rogue Trader, which of course is what's actually happening to 40K - the design team's midlife crisis in full swing, rewriting 40K as they remember it from their youth(I'm just taking the piss a bit, chill. Mostly, anyway.).

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
Gone are the warrior monks of old

Ive never gotten the feeling that the Astartes were purely Warrior Monks to begin with, so thats up to everyones interpretation. The only ones that felt very warrior monky were the Dark Angels and the Silver and Red Successors. Everyone else had varying degrees of it I suppose.

I can appreciate the tacticoolness, a shame they didn't apply that to Scions or a new line of Guardsmen

I can't help but feel that those flying primaris were inspired more by Playskool Heroes than traditional 40k artwork which is a shame because I really liked the initial Intercessor, Hellblaster, and Reiver asthetics/proportions. YMMV. Admittedly the previous flying Inceptors and plodding Aggressors less so but ultimately I was happy with the line overall (the fluff on the other hand not so much...).



Spoilered since the pic is pretty large.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
But then the recosting of units in CA isn't taken into consideration with PL, which in my mind kinda defeats the entire point of the PL situation.

And also this:


If only...

This is great. I like the Primaris gear, so I’m not gonna talk about the pack. But, so people don’t hound you for “modeling for advantage,” stack a lot of cork or some kind of statue on the base so the unit can retain its flight stand height.

I had no problem with the Inceptor pose and flight stem. But I will model the Suppressors crushing through the edge of a ruin or something akin to that.

Honestly, my biggest problem with all the newest flying units is the new curved flight stick that the only way to attach is gluing >_>

 Albertorius wrote:
Honestly, my biggest problem with all the newest flying units is the new curved flight stick that the only way to attach is gluing >_>

yeah me too it's so fragile and finnicky