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WOWWWWW!!! I hate to say this, but I think this may be the best model in the citadel range now. Just brilliantly executed. I think this release is what will push me over 2 decades of reticence to starting a Black legion army. Groan.....

By the way, I know they’re both toy soldiers, but Roboute actually looks like one next to Abaddon.

 Kirasu wrote:

 Haighus wrote:

What you have said is more likely... but I think it would be neat if they made the rotor cannon S3 (like the Heresy-era version) or even S2, but a bucket load of shots. This would make it statistically better at killing weak units than Space Marines, and really cement it into a chaff-killing role. Probably not going to happen though.

I request using math first. At S2 this weapon need to be HEAVY 30 to even do 3 wounds to guardsmen in cover, or Heavy 20 at S3. To kill chaff it should probably be S5 Heavy 6 (and yes this means Heavy bolsters are awful, but they always have been).

I'd rather S3 heavy 20 than S5 heavy 6- at least then the battlefield role is clear, and it isn't another variant of heavy bolter-type weapon. Also, rolling the dice for a unit of Havoks with 4 would be great fun

Anyway, why is 3 wounds-per-turn the benchmark? Even a plasmagun, one of the best man-portable weapons of this edition, could only kill two guardsmen at best, and a heavy bolter could only kill three at best. If the weapon is cheap (say, 4-5pts), and a unit is chucking out a lot of shots, it will do the job. If you really want to, add some suppression mechanic so it doesn't have to outright kill units.

 Mr_Rose wrote:
2. What do tracers have to do with “keeping track of ammo” exactly?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracer_ammunition

Tracers are also sometimes placed two or three rounds from the bottom of magazines to alert the shooter that his weapon is almost empty. During World War II, aircraft with fixed machine guns or cannons mounted would sometimes have a series of tracer rounds added near the end of the ammunition belts, to alert the pilot that he was almost out of ammunition.

 Haighus wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:

 Haighus wrote:

What you have said is more likely... but I think it would be neat if they made the rotor cannon S3 (like the Heresy-era version) or even S2, but a bucket load of shots. This would make it statistically better at killing weak units than Space Marines, and really cement it into a chaff-killing role. Probably not going to happen though.

I request using math first. At S2 this weapon need to be HEAVY 30 to even do 3 wounds to guardsmen in cover, or Heavy 20 at S3. To kill chaff it should probably be S5 Heavy 6 (and yes this means Heavy bolsters are awful, but they always have been).

I'd rather S3 heavy 20 than S5 heavy 6- at least then the battlefield role is clear, and it isn't another variant of heavy bolter-type weapon. Also, rolling the dice for a unit of Havoks with 4 would be great fun

Anyway, why is 3 wounds-per-turn the benchmark? Even a plasmagun, one of the best man-portable weapons of this edition, could only kill two guardsmen at best, and a heavy bolter could only kill three at best. If the weapon is cheap (say, 4-5pts), and a unit is chucking out a lot of shots, it will do the job. If you really want to, add some suppression mechanic so it doesn't have to outright kill units.

Maybe like Heavy 12 S3 AP-1 or ignores cover? Heavy 20 is going to get tedious fast if you have 4-5 of them. I run ork warbiker mobs, there's a limit to amount of dice you want to roll for minimal results I guess dice apps exist but I think the GW one isn't on android

Edit: Or getting +1 to hit against units consisting of 10 models or more

 Crimson wrote:
Seeing Abaddon next to Guilliman really highlights the problem with the the latter. Abaddon actually looks like a giant guy in 40K scale, Guilliman looks like a model from a game using different scale.

Yep. Abaddon is a cool model. Gulliman look like a deformed teenager. Horrible model

 Crimson wrote:
Seeing Abaddon next to Guilliman really highlights the problem with the the latter. Abaddon actually looks like a giant guy in 40K scale, Guilliman looks like a model from a game using different scale.

Argh, that's EXACTLY what's been bugging me, I just couldn't articulate it.

I'll never love that frickin top knot, but otherwise very cool Abaddon.

 ph34r wrote:
I wonder if there are any good alternate paint scheme routes to take.

I'll just leave this here (this is what I'm doing, of course):

Wow, Abaddon is a top (k)notch model. I'm excited to see what some of the ridiculous painters out there can do with this model.

 Darth Bob wrote:
Wow, Abaddon is a top (k)notch model. I'm excited to see what some of the ridiculous painters out there can do with this model.

It would be cool to see someone do some magic with LEDs too, to get that lovely evil glow much of the artwork has.

I'll say this, I'm not a Chaos guy, despite playing CSM (I play Renegades consisting of normal HH models, etc.).

I've always liked the classic Chaos range and thought they suffered a lot in the intermediate years. Abaddon is a perfect update to the classic model.

 Crimson wrote:
Seeing Abaddon next to Guilliman really highlights the problem with the the latter. Abaddon actually looks like a giant guy in 40K scale, Guilliman looks like a model from a game using different scale.

That was my problem with the Guilliman model when it was released. His proportions are all wrong, and he's far too skinny. But yes, Abaddon does rather nicely highlight it.


I do have some qualms with how beaten up his armour is... He's the freaking Warmaster! I almost want to buy one and see if I can patch it up all shiny. And 'fix' the trophy rack back to the old style


Glorious model as is, though.

I don't think anyone has mentioned this but:

What's that blood angel the Mauler fiend is about to step on?

I think the Blood Angels are going to be the much needed reinforcements the Imperium needs to hold back the Black Legion.

What is the golden wing on Abaddon's base?

Smashed up terrain of some kind I think.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the subject of Havocs.

Wanna know what I think would be super cool? If they have new Heavy Weapons not available to other Chaos Squads.

That could mean the Rotor Cannon we’re seeing is their Heavy Bolter equivalent. Higher rate of fire, without being an outright replacement. Or even a rotary Autocannon, looking at the shells. Give them a role more distinct and impressive than Devastators etc.

The problem with Roboute is his waist and his head. The helm fix the head problem, but the waist is just too small for such a figurine. He has a third problem which is that he is an ultramarine but alas that's how it is.
Abaddon seems to have the right proportions, aside maybe for the huge belt that seems a little too big in some pictures.

What do you guys prefer : with or without the cape ?

So.... will the model get new rules the size deserves?

WhiteDog wrote:
The problem with Roboute is his waist and his head. The helm fix the head problem, but the waist is just too small for such a figurine. He has a third problem which is that he is an ultramarine but alas that's how it is.
Abaddon seems to have the right proportions, aside maybe for the huge belt that seems a little too big in some pictures.

What do you guys prefer : with or without the cape ?

On the cape, I’m torn.

As a display piece, defo cloak on. As a gaming piece? Probably cloak off. Can’t really justify. They’re just feels!

WhiteDog wrote:
The problem with Roboute is his waist and his head. The helm fix the head problem, but the waist is just too small for such a figurine. He has a third problem which is that he is an ultramarine but alas that's how it is.
Abaddon seems to have the right proportions, aside maybe for the huge belt that seems a little too big in some pictures.

What do you guys prefer : with or without the cape ?

Without cape feels right for Abaddon, for me. I don't associate him with the pomp and pageantry of the olden days, to me he should look like he's been crossing one big continuous battlefield since the heresy. Apart from a few trophies he can jam on his armour as he goes, everything else should have rotted or fallen away.

Honestly I wouldn't mind them getting rid of the ultramarine icongraphy and just having him as a neutral / Knights Errant Color scheme.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
What is the golden wing on Abaddon's base?

You can just about make out what looks to me like a Blood Angel-y red helmet to the left of the dead marine, I'm wondering if there's bits of two dudes underfoot?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:


On the cape, I’m torn.

Seems appropriate - so's the cape!


I'm here all week.





I like him with the cape. Adds a bit of a regal touch.

It's it just me, or does the havoc's weapon look a lot like the hades gatling cannon from the heldrake? As neat as new new weapons would be, a squad of Hades Havocs would be about 150 points for 16 s8 ap-2 dam2 shots. Combo with VotLW and that is a DEADLY volley.

Amazing model. And the extra heads will allow me to defile (or despoil) the rogal dorn body I have burning a hole in my bits box.

StarHunter25 wrote:
It's it just me, or does the havoc's weapon look a lot like the hades gatling cannon from the heldrake? As neat as new new weapons would be, a squad of Hades Havocs would be about 150 points for 16 s8 ap-2 dam2 shots. Combo with VotLW and that is a DEADLY volley.

I'd rather see hades on preds, on the other hand more accurate and more plattforms for hades is a good thing in my book.

Also is it just me or makes that Abi model actual for nice terminator Lord conversions?

Abaddon is such a nice mini! Its not overbusy but still have loads of nice details. Such a good balance and the focal point is nailed too. I say one of the best GW miniatures for sure.

I complained to someone saying that space marines / primaris have really lost their image compared to the chaos space marines. Marines have become too round...

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
So.... will the model get new rules the size deserves?

Nah - his rules are pretty stellar as is.

I only hope one day we get an equally good Ghazghull. We now have plastic Calgar, Eldrad and Abaddon so he’s the only major faction leader of that calibre left over, oh and Yarrick!

 Asherian Command wrote:
I complained to someone saying that space marines / primaris have really lost their image compared to the chaos space marines. Marines have become too round...

Join Chaos, we have Spikes to slow the rounding, altough you may get stuck if you drop wrong like a spear.