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2019/03/08 03:30:09
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
Preordered the box at my local store, they do 25% off on GW products and I've arranged to split the box with my brother who wants the Primaris side so I'll paying just over 35% of the retail. I'm pretty happy with that.
"Courage and Honour. I hear you murmur these words in the mist, in their wake I hear your hearts beat harder with false conviction seeking to convince yourselves that a brave death has meaning.
There is no courage to be found here my nephews, no honour to be had. Your souls will join the trillion others in the mist shrieking uselessly to eternity, weeping for the empire you could not save.
To the unfaithful, I bring holy plagues ripe with enlightenment. To the devout, I bring the blessing of immortality through the kiss of sacred rot.
And to you, new-born sons of Gulliman, to you flesh crafted puppets of a failing Imperium I bring the holiest gift of all.... Silence."
- Mortarion, The Death Lord, The Reaper of Men, Daemon Primarch of Nurgle
5300 | 2800 | 3600 | 1600 |
2019/03/08 05:03:40
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
warboss wrote: When does Abby go up on the website? I'd love to see the 360 view of him.
Current rumour is the following Saturday so preorder on the 16th, Abbadon preorder same time as the Vigilus II book
"Courage and Honour. I hear you murmur these words in the mist, in their wake I hear your hearts beat harder with false conviction seeking to convince yourselves that a brave death has meaning.
There is no courage to be found here my nephews, no honour to be had. Your souls will join the trillion others in the mist shrieking uselessly to eternity, weeping for the empire you could not save.
To the unfaithful, I bring holy plagues ripe with enlightenment. To the devout, I bring the blessing of immortality through the kiss of sacred rot.
And to you, new-born sons of Gulliman, to you flesh crafted puppets of a failing Imperium I bring the holiest gift of all.... Silence."
- Mortarion, The Death Lord, The Reaper of Men, Daemon Primarch of Nurgle
5300 | 2800 | 3600 | 1600 |
2019/03/08 07:05:55
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
warboss wrote: When does Abby go up on the website? I'd love to see the 360 view of him.
Current rumour is the following Saturday so preorder on the 16th, Abbadon preorder same time as the Vigilus II book
sounds about right, I suspect we'll get something other then just abddon though. we got a CSM leader with Calgar after all. may guess is maybe new termies?
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
2019/03/08 07:37:41
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
Mandragola wrote: Suppressors at 33 are awesome. For context, that's the cost of a marine with a missile launcher. These guys look like a solid option to me, and a great combo with the warlord trait that lets you re-deploy.
They'd be 35 each, as they come equipped with grav-chutes aswel.
Ahriman21 wrote: To me at least Venomcrawlers are not *that* overpriced.
The idea that a defiler at 142 or a Mauler at 132 is "overpriced" is somewhat ridiculous given how tough they are and the damage they output. I have always been quite fond of them.
The Crawler is perhaps at MOST 15 points overpriced. At the very most. Probably should have been 120.
Its got easy-access str 8 guns that don't care about moving and can heal up to 2 a turn before any healing spell effect occurs. It certainly has potential. (We at this moment do not know its attack stat but I am going to guess it has 4 given all the other melee engines do) The gun can be buffed to str 9 quite easily if you intend on taking Greater Possessed which at this point may as well be miniature daemon princes in combat as an easy access buff.
I don't see the issue honestly, though helbrutes at this moment are priced pretty well that 5++ and regen often makes it far more capable over the long term in my experience.
If these units are well priced, why don't they get used?
(Hint: It's because their damage isn't as good as it looks at first after you factor in that they are WS/BS 4+.)
A flawed line of reasoning. They most certainly do "get used" and I see them quite frequently, but the fact that they aren't included in top "ITC" or tourney lists means literally *nothing* to the vast majority of people that play the game. Its not like we don't have a 1 CP strat that may be the most cost-effective in the entire bloody game to even out their WS/BS
Okay, so I claim that they are not competitively priced and your response is....to agree that they are not competitively priced? Well alright then. Glad we're on the same page! As for the strat, see my previous responses a couple posts back. If a unit is only good because of a really good strat, it is the strat that is good, not the unit.
I disagree with that line of reasoning. You cannot separate the utility of the unit from that of the strat. They exist together and are accessible therefore that cost must be considered in deciding a units validity.
Secondly: I have seen plenty of wacky lists end up placing in tourneys just fine. This includes lists with *gasp* CHAOS SPACE MARINES!
I often find WAAC players can't think outside the "net list" box.
2019/03/08 09:16:11
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
Mandragola wrote: Suppressors at 33 are awesome. For context, that's the cost of a marine with a missile launcher. These guys look like a solid option to me, and a great combo with the warlord trait that lets you re-deploy.
They'd be 35 each, as they come equipped with grav-chutes aswel.
So they do. That’s weird. I wonder why they have jump palaces and chutes.
2019/03/08 09:27:36
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
Mandragola wrote: Suppressors at 33 are awesome. For context, that's the cost of a marine with a missile launcher. These guys look like a solid option to me, and a great combo with the warlord trait that lets you re-deploy.
They'd be 35 each, as they come equipped with grav-chutes aswel.
So they do. That’s weird. I wonder why they have jump palaces and chutes.
well with the whole bespoke rules and the like now just having a jump pack doesn't automaticly give deep strike. so this might be simply a way to give people who don't want to deep strike the unit a slight discount?
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
2019/03/08 09:30:25
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
Although I wouldn't be surprised if the grav-chutes are not optional, because the smaller jump packs the Suppressors have might need the grav-vanes because they don't generate enough thrust by themselves.
I'm curious how the Suppressors look from the back.
Redemption wrote: Although I wouldn't be surprised if the grav-chutes are not optional, because the smaller jump packs the Suppressors have might need the grav-vanes because they don't generate enough thrust by themselves.
I'm curious how the Suppressors look from the back.
yeah my inital read was that they could choose them optionally but looks like I misread that.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
2019/03/08 10:07:25
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
I guess we'll know for sure when we see the full datasheet, whenever that gets released. These are only the mini-dexes from shadowspear so they might not be the complete rules.
Someone pointed out a few pages back that when DI was released it had a set of points that were different from those in the codex, which was released only a week or so later. It's possible that the full rules (in vigilus 2?) could be different.
For me, this just feels like yet another reason not to bother with Shadow spear. There are no auto-take models in there so I think I'll wait for full rules and full kits.
2019/03/08 10:57:50
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
Those points are decided in regard to the content of the box, and not in regard to the overall balance in the game. I don't understand why people just gets all flustered other rules that are bound to change in the month if not weeks to come.
2019/03/08 13:06:14
Subject: Re:Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
Your 10-man squads of Chaos Space Marines are great for holding objectives and offering fire support while the rest of your fast-moving, melee-focussed army speeds towards the foe to engage them in combat. Alternatively, you can use them to follow up your first wave of daemonically possessed gribblies and put the new beta Bolter Discipline rules to good use at close range.
what matched play world these dudes live in haha
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/08 14:13:36
2019/03/08 14:27:18
Subject: Re:Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
Your 10-man squads of Chaos Space Marines are great for holding objectives and offering fire support while the rest of your fast-moving, melee-focussed army speeds towards the foe to engage them in combat. Alternatively, you can use them to follow up your first wave of daemonically possessed gribblies and put the new beta Bolter Discipline rules to good use at close range.
what matched play world these dudes live in haha
And have they actually read the new Bolter Discipline rules??? Walking upfield and shooting close range are the opposite of what it does.
"Marion! For Gods sake, you're going to die!"
"Ah, but then I'll wake up in a magical fantasy world, filled with virgins!"
"You mean Games Workshop?" Mongrels
"Realism? THESE ARE SPACE ELVES!!" - My friend Jordan during an argument about rule abstraction
2019/03/08 14:43:54
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
Well, the article wasn't completely pointless. We learned what two of the Warlord Traits do. Warp Lord (which may have already been revealed) gives rerolls of 1s on psychic tests. Marksman's Honours must increase the damage of a shooting weapon by 1. Not terrible, but better variations of it exist.
I was hoping they would have made a comment on Reivers, but I guess that is too much to ask.
Your 10-man squads of Chaos Space Marines are great for holding objectives and offering fire support while the rest of your fast-moving, melee-focussed army speeds towards the foe to engage them in combat. Alternatively, you can use them to follow up your first wave of daemonically possessed gribblies and put the new beta Bolter Discipline rules to good use at close range.
what matched play world these dudes live in haha
And have they actually read the new Bolter Discipline rules??? Walking upfield and shooting close range are the opposite of what it does.
It is hillarious!
No serious, the whole article is hilarious!
Also re: bolter beta rule, they even Link the fething rule !
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
2019/03/08 15:04:45
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
Using the leaked points costs I made a quick list of the force they show that is supposed to be around 2k points for marines and I am getting a total of 1867pts. I put cyclone missile launchers and multimeltas on the land speeders and sniper rifles/camo cloaks on the scouts.
Librarian - 100pts
Captain in Phobos Armor - 110pts
5x Scouts w/camo cloaks and sniper rifles - 80pts
5x Scouts w/camo cloaks and sniper rifles - 80pts
5x Scouts w/camo cloaks and sniper rifles - 80pts
9x Infiltrators with Apothecary - 230pts (22pts each and 32 for the Apothecary)
3x Eliminators - 72pts (18 base + 3 for weapon + 3 for camo cloak)
3x Land Speeders: Multi-melta, Typhoon missile launcher - 330pts
Am I missing anything? Is 1867 pts "in the region" of 2000 pts? Are the points costs incorrect and actually worse? Are we missing points costs for equipment? Do they honestly believe an army that includes 600pts of Reivers makes sense?
I have no answers, only questions.
Edit: fixed Eliminators cost
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/08 15:44:56
2019/03/08 15:07:19
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
abyrn wrote: Using the leaked points costs I made a quick list of the force they show that is supposed to be around 2k points for marines and I am getting a total of 1873pts. I put cyclone missle lauchers and multimeltas on the land speeders and sniper rifles/camo cloaks on the scouts.
Librarian - 100pts
Captain in Phobos Armor - 110pts
5x Scouts w/camo cloaks and sniper rifles - 80pts
5x Scouts w/camo cloaks and sniper rifles - 80pts
5x Scouts w/camo cloaks and sniper rifles - 80pts
9x Infiltrators with Apothecary - 230pts (22pts each and 23 for the Apothecary)
3x Eliminators - 78pts (18 base + 3 for weapon + 3 for camo cloak)
3x Land Speeders: Multi-melta, Typhoon missile launcher - 330pts
Am I missing anything? Is 1873 pts "in the region" of 2000 pts? Are the points costs incorrect and actually worse? Are we missing points costs for equipment? Do they honestly believe an army that includes 600pts of Reivers makes sense?
I have no answers, only questions.
10 infiltrators, no idea if an apo is an upgrade.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
2019/03/08 15:18:02
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
abyrn wrote: Using the leaked points costs I made a quick list of the force they show that is supposed to be around 2k points for marines and I am getting a total of 1873pts. I put cyclone missle lauchers and multimeltas on the land speeders and sniper rifles/camo cloaks on the scouts.
Librarian - 100pts
Captain in Phobos Armor - 110pts
5x Scouts w/camo cloaks and sniper rifles - 80pts
5x Scouts w/camo cloaks and sniper rifles - 80pts
5x Scouts w/camo cloaks and sniper rifles - 80pts
9x Infiltrators with Apothecary - 230pts (22pts each and 23 for the Apothecary)
3x Eliminators - 78pts (18 base + 3 for weapon + 3 for camo cloak)
3x Land Speeders: Multi-melta, Typhoon missile launcher - 330pts
Am I missing anything? Is 1873 pts "in the region" of 2000 pts? Are the points costs incorrect and actually worse? Are we missing points costs for equipment? Do they honestly believe an army that includes 600pts of Reivers makes sense?
I have no answers, only questions.
10 infiltrators, no idea if an apo is an upgrade.
In the leaked datasheets its says the squad "can include up to 4 additional Infiltrators and an Infiltrator Helix Adept," so a 10 man squad must have and Infiltrator Helix Adept. I'm just trying to make sense of the leaks haha we have no confirmation of what is actually going on.
2019/03/08 15:20:51
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
abyrn wrote: Using the leaked points costs I made a quick list of the force they show that is supposed to be around 2k points for marines and I am getting a total of 1873pts. I put cyclone missle lauchers and multimeltas on the land speeders and sniper rifles/camo cloaks on the scouts.
Librarian - 100pts
Captain in Phobos Armor - 110pts
5x Scouts w/camo cloaks and sniper rifles - 80pts
5x Scouts w/camo cloaks and sniper rifles - 80pts
5x Scouts w/camo cloaks and sniper rifles - 80pts
9x Infiltrators with Apothecary - 230pts (22pts each and 23 for the Apothecary)
3x Eliminators - 78pts (18 base + 3 for weapon + 3 for camo cloak)
3x Land Speeders: Multi-melta, Typhoon missile launcher - 330pts
Am I missing anything? Is 1873 pts "in the region" of 2000 pts? Are the points costs incorrect and actually worse? Are we missing points costs for equipment? Do they honestly believe an army that includes 600pts of Reivers makes sense?
I have no answers, only questions.
10 infiltrators, no idea if an apo is an upgrade.
In the leaked datasheets its says the squad "can include up to 4 additional Infiltrators and an Infiltrator Helix Adept," so a 10 man squad must have and Infiltrator Helix Adept. I'm just trying to make sense of the leaks haha we have no confirmation of what is actually going on.
No worries, i just stated what they wrote in the article. and it seems the article writer didn't just get the Bolter rule wrong
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/08 15:21:08
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
2019/03/08 15:21:58
Subject: Re:Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
This article did do one thing. It showed me that the Infiltrator Sergeant doesn't even have a helmet on his hip like the Captain, so I can't cut it off to put on his head instead (or on the head of the other half-mask dude and leave the Sergeant without a helmet). So that sucks. Hopefully they went ahead and put an alternate head on the sprue like they did with the Eliminators.
5300 | 
2800 | 
3600 | 
1600 | 
5250 pts
3850 pts
2500 pts 