Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The whole Calgar vs Abaddon thing is blatantly going to end with a pyrrhic victory for the Ultramarines.

Calgar grievously wounded (but walks it off due to genehanced biology) Abaddon driven off in moment of victory by amazing Ultras tactical feint. "I'll get you next time Calgar!!!, I'd have gotten away with it if it wasn't for those pesky Ultramarines!!!"

It's obvious that we're getting new CSM models, but just a note if it hasn't been noticed that CSM aren't even on GW anymore, literally can't even buy the old models.

As an outside theory, Vigilus could end with the return of another Primarch. Chaos or Loyalist, I don't know, but I could see Abaddon getting the upper hand only to have Vulkan or the Khan sweep in at the head of a massive host. Or, Abaddon getting crushed only for Angron to turn up...

If I pour all my willpower into it, will it make CSM grow a little bit more? DV stuff is not tall enough. The legs are still stubby on them. I thought the BSF CSM were as tall as Plague Marines, so still few mm too short, but taller than DV stuff.

So I'll still have to plasticard them or use Primaris legs. But my Word Bearers army Mk2 WILL rise!

 Binabik15 wrote:
If I pour all my willpower into it, will it make CSM grow a little bit more? DV stuff is not tall enough. The legs are still stubby on them. I thought the BSF CSM were as tall as Plague Marines, so still few mm too short, but taller than DV stuff.

So I'll still have to plasticard them or use Primaris legs. But my Word Bearers army Mk2 WILL rise!

Why do they need to be larger?
We ain't primaris.
Also the size of the dog does not matter.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Binabik15 wrote:
If I pour all my willpower into it, will it make CSM grow a little bit more? DV stuff is not tall enough. The legs are still stubby on them. I thought the BSF CSM were as tall as Plague Marines, so still few mm too short, but taller than DV stuff.

So I'll still have to plasticard them or use Primaris legs. But my Word Bearers army Mk2 WILL rise!

Why do they need to be larger?
We ain't primaris.
Also the size of the dog does not matter.

Because I like the Primaris proportions better. DV stuff and DG still have too short legs for their torsos.

But if they were primaris sized you would need to come up with some explanation why every chaos marine(including recently turned) has suddenly become head taller.

 Binabik15 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Binabik15 wrote:
If I pour all my willpower into it, will it make CSM grow a little bit more? DV stuff is not tall enough. The legs are still stubby on them. I thought the BSF CSM were as tall as Plague Marines, so still few mm too short, but taller than DV stuff.

So I'll still have to plasticard them or use Primaris legs. But my Word Bearers army Mk2 WILL rise!

Why do they need to be larger?
We ain't primaris.
Also the size of the dog does not matter.

Because I like the Primaris proportions better. DV stuff and DG still have too short legs for their torsos.

Shouldn't have turned from the Emperor's light then.

tneva82 wrote:
But if they were primaris sized you would need to come up with some explanation why every chaos marine(including recently turned) has suddenly become head taller.

>Fabious Bile would like to introduce himself.
> He also offers you a size upgrade if you give him your left kidney.

 zedmeister wrote:
As an outside theory, Vigilus could end with the return of another Primarch. Chaos or Loyalist, I don't know, but I could see Abaddon getting the upper hand only to have Vulkan or the Khan sweep in at the head of a massive host. Or, Abaddon getting crushed only for Angron to turn up...

Well there is something about World Eaters vs Space Wolves in the GAMA line up for today.....

tneva82 wrote:
But if they were primaris sized you would need to come up with some explanation why every chaos marine(including recently turned) has suddenly become head taller.

No one needed it the first couple times it happened.
No one needed it when several fantasy races shrank.

 Kinetochore wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:
As an outside theory, Vigilus could end with the return of another Primarch. Chaos or Loyalist, I don't know, but I could see Abaddon getting the upper hand only to have Vulkan or the Khan sweep in at the head of a massive host. Or, Abaddon getting crushed only for Angron to turn up...

Well there is something about World Eaters vs Space Wolves in the GAMA line up for today.....

There was a rumour that the third book is the imperial fight back led by a returning loyalist primarch, I'm thinking Russ. Chaos could win on Vigilus and sever the imperium in half, but maybe mitigated by the second loyalist primarch leading the separated side..

Personally I just want new eldar.. I'm not holding my breath...

So these new CSM are what I finally needed to see to start on my long-planned Black Legion army. Huzzah! I've lived what I've seen so far and it looks like you may finally be able to build an interesting CSM army.

Speaking of, if you fine folks were going to use the FW Berzerker upgrade kits, what legs and arms would you use to make those? On the same subject, what would look cooler: primarily old legion colors with a black and gold arm/ pauldron, black and gold with old legion arm or just pure black and gold?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/15/tales-from-vigilus-15-the-threshold-of-damnation/

Ok guys, Chaos won before they even started, pack it, there is literally nothing left to do here

 Binabik15 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Binabik15 wrote:
If I pour all my willpower into it, will it make CSM grow a little bit more? DV stuff is not tall enough. The legs are still stubby on them. I thought the BSF CSM were as tall as Plague Marines, so still few mm too short, but taller than DV stuff.

So I'll still have to plasticard them or use Primaris legs. But my Word Bearers army Mk2 WILL rise!

Why do they need to be larger?
We ain't primaris.
Also the size of the dog does not matter.

Because I like the Primaris proportions better. DV stuff and DG still have too short legs for their torsos.

It's actually their torsos that are too short.

Victory with abbadon? and he even has arms to draw his sword, Perposterous.

I think it forms a great narrative. You want worthy foes to fight. Abaddon is as big a baddy as it gets. He has assembled a massive fleet led by his flagship Spirit of Vengence. And he appears to already have plans set in motion even before he made planet fall.

It will be a glorious, desperate defense that Calgar will have to manage. And my money is that Calgar will be defeated. But this is why this next book is called Vigilus ablaze. The black legion led by Abaddon is here and they are going to see Vigilus burn!

But fret not, because I am pretty sure there will be a third book which will see a big comeback in the form of aid from maybe a returned loyalist primarch and his legion revitalised. (not necessarily Gulliman). Dorn? The Lion, Russ ? Well, the loyalist will get the chance to strike back in the third book.

For now though, let Abaddon and the Chaos legions have their fun! Hehehe... (sorry, I have always been CSM, so I am have been a heretic astartes all my life...) It is a glorious time to be on the dark side right now ... Death to false emperor !!!!!

The stubby look of the older space marines is definitely improved with the Primaris. Even more recent "old" marines have been changed. Look at the Space Marine Heroes from Japan. They're not primaris sized, but their limbs have been extended. They're a noticeable improvement over the current tactical squad.

I assume the Helspear is some kind of artefact that will link it to the warp and lots of the population will turn to Chaos.

If it just kills everyone - having the massive Chaos force even turn up is a bit pointless.

 silverstu wrote:

 Kinetochore wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:
As an outside theory, Vigilus could end with the return of another Primarch. Chaos or Loyalist, I don't know, but I could see Abaddon getting the upper hand only to have Vulkan or the Khan sweep in at the head of a massive host. Or, Abaddon getting crushed only for Angron to turn up...

Well there is something about World Eaters vs Space Wolves in the GAMA line up for today.....

There was a rumour that the third book is the imperial fight back led by a returning loyalist primarch, I'm thinking Russ. Chaos could win on Vigilus and sever the imperium in half, but maybe mitigated by the second loyalist primarch leading the separated side..

Personally I just want new eldar.. I'm not holding my breath...

Pretty sure Vigilus is only 2 books, there is no third.

Chaos actually wins for once? Hmm...

Not Online!!! wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
But if they were primaris sized you would need to come up with some explanation why every chaos marine(including recently turned) has suddenly become head taller.

>Fabious Bile would like to introduce himself.
> He also offers you a size upgrade if you give him your left kidney.

I don’t think you need to give Fabious anything of the sort, just sign the medical waiver and lay down on the table. More than likely you actually walk out with a couple more kidneys than you came in with, along with an assortment of other new organs and parts.

This story really illustrates how much I love the setting and yet how little I enjoy GW's actual expression of it.

There is so much that can be done with a character like Abaddon, but he mostly just comes off as an angry, mustache-twirling, cartoon villain.

I really wish someone would do a literary quality treatment of 40K. I'd try, but I don't have the talent and I don't know enough of the actual lore.

So far, they are portraying him as anything but just merely angry. He seems to be able to construct and implement deep long ranging plans and has the patience to see them through. That implies anything but blind rage.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
So far, they are portraying him as anything but just merely angry. He seems to be able to construct and implement deep long ranging plans and has the patience to see them through. That implies anything but blind rage.

Well, I am not really equating "angry" with "blind rage." Obviously they do present him as someone that plans things, but his character still comes across to me as a mostly hackneyed.

That's just completely subjective. I'm not trying to pretend that I am presenting objective facts, rather, this is my subjective valuation of what I see presented. I'd personally love to see a more "nuanced" Abaddon, but I realize that isn't his "role" in GW fiction. That isn't to say he shouldn't be "angry" or be filled with hatred, but rather, I'd rather see presented in a way that seems more dimensional.

But hey, could just be my flawed reading. I've become too accustomed to reading things that are just written with my "literary quality" in mind. I just can't help but feel that this fiction does not cut it, for me.

 H wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
So far, they are portraying him as anything but just merely angry. He seems to be able to construct and implement deep long ranging plans and has the patience to see them through. That implies anything but blind rage.

Well, I am not really equating "angry" with "blind rage." Obviously they do present him as someone that plans things, but his character still comes across to me as a mostly hackneyed.

That's just completely subjective. I'm not trying to pretend that I am presenting objective facts, rather, this is my subjective valuation of what I see presented. I'd personally love to see a more "nuanced" Abaddon, but I realize that isn't his "role" in GW fiction. That isn't to say he shouldn't be "angry" or be filled with hatred, but rather, I'd rather see presented in a way that seems more dimensional.

But hey, could just be my flawed reading. I've become too accustomed to reading things that are just written with my "literary quality" in mind. I just can't help but feel that this fiction does not cut it, for me.

They do this in ADB's Black Legion novels. Talon of Horus and Black Legion.

Abaddon is going to kill Dante, who’s going to turn into an angelic manifestation of Sanguinius which will be his new model.
It’ll be the same talon that took his life that’ll bring him back into the world.

100% gunna happen, confirmed, 10/10.

 bullyboy wrote:

Spoiler:

 silverstu wrote:

 Kinetochore wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:
As an outside theory, Vigilus could end with the return of another Primarch. Chaos or Loyalist, I don't know, but I could see Abaddon getting the upper hand only to have Vulkan or the Khan sweep in at the head of a massive host. Or, Abaddon getting crushed only for Angron to turn up...

Well there is something about World Eaters vs Space Wolves in the GAMA line up for today.....

There was a rumour that the third book is the imperial fight back led by a returning loyalist primarch, I'm thinking Russ. Chaos could win on Vigilus and sever the imperium in half, but maybe mitigated by the second loyalist primarch leading the separated side..

Personally I just want new eldar.. I'm not holding my breath...

Pretty sure Vigilus is only 2 books, there is no third.

It was months ago on War of Sigmar- Hastings and someone else where discussing it- one of them mentioned they weren't sure if it was 2 or 3 books but they seem to agree on the broad story arc and of a returning loyalist Primarch [no name but Russ was mentioned by Hastings ages ago when listing the returning ones after Magnus reappeared ]. I have no dog on the fight- I'm an eldar/Nid player but I like watching the story evolve.

JSG wrote:
They do this in ADB's Black Legion novels. Talon of Horus and Black Legion.

Interesting. Might try to check them out. I tried to read some of the Horus Heresy books, but the quality of the writing always puts me off.

Again, subjective valuation, I'm accustomed to reading things written in particular ways and so denote those ways with quality.

My bet, the Imperium loses Vigilus. Commander Dante is Rubicon'd into a Primaris Marine (in Phobos Armor because it is speaker). He becomes regent of Imperium Nihilus. The Imperium fights to retake Vigilus next year with Dante at the Nihilus army's head.