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topaxygouroun i wrote:
Vicious descent has to be the most useless thing GW have ever written by the way. You pay the CP to activate it in the movement phase, on a deepstriking unit. You pay CP to get rerolls before you even know if you made the charge or not.

Yup.

You can shoot with 3 special weapons and reroll everything. Maybe 3 meltaguns into an Eldar flyer. No Altiaoc -1 to hit within 12" and send 3 meltaguns into it.

I really feel for you NL players. Those rules are garbage.

Vicious Descent is very situational. Obviously, it's aimed at Warp Talons, allowing them to deep strike with rerolls on all hits and wounds.

The challenge is making the charge from 9 inches, similar to a Bloodletter Bomb (but without the +1 to charge from a Daemonic instrument. Giving them Mark of Khorne and putting them near something with Locus of Rage could be a way to make it work, but... why not just use Bloodletters at that point? Mobility after the assault?

There's either going to be some other mechanic which improves the odds of making a charge, or this will just make Warp Talons that much less desirable.

I am whelmed. Not sure why they're going with the low effort reveals when there is most certainly more to talk about than just these meh strats.

It's important to note that none of these are "Night Lords" or "Iron Warriors" strats. They are generic for any legion and only themed to the ones they're promoting in the article.

DarthDiggler wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:
Vicious descent has to be the most useless thing GW have ever written by the way. You pay the CP to activate it in the movement phase, on a deepstriking unit. You pay CP to get rerolls before you even know if you made the charge or not.

Yup.

You can shoot with 3 special weapons and reroll everything. Maybe 3 meltaguns into an Eldar flyer. No Altiaoc -1 to hit within 12" and send 3 meltaguns into it.

No, just the base -1 to hit the model comes with and probably another -1 from a stratagem. You hit on 5s, rerolling 1s and 2s, then wound on a 3+. Result: nothing much.

Still better than turning up out of range of some infiltrators though.

 techsoldaten wrote:
Vicious Descent is very situational. Obviously, it's aimed at Warp Talons, allowing them to deep strike with rerolls on all hits and wounds.

The challenge is making the charge from 9 inches, similar to a Bloodletter Bomb (but without the +1 to charge from a Daemonic instrument. Giving them Mark of Khorne and putting them near something with Locus of Rage could be a way to make it work, but... why not just use Bloodletters at that point? Mobility after the assault?

There's either going to be some other mechanic which improves the odds of making a charge, or this will just make Warp Talons that much less desirable.

Raptors might benefit more being they'll have rerolls to hit on shooting and melee.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
I am whelmed. Not sure why they're going with the low effort reveals when there is most certainly more to talk about than just these meh strats.

It's important to note that none of these are "Night Lords" or "Iron Warriors" strats. They are generic for any legion and only themed to the ones they're promoting in the article.

They're generically and thematically bad.

 Latro_ wrote:
this comin up for the funs

Wasted opportunity to not mention METAL BAWKSES in the Iron Warriors one.

 Boss Salvage wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
1: Yes Renegades and Heretics still exist, still have acess to regular basilisks.

So Iron Warrior players right now can take a spearhead of basilisks to accompany their CSM detachment(s)? I'm surprised I never hear about this, and my IW brother certainly doesn't know about it. Maybe because basilisks secretly suck now? I literally do not know, just wondering if the IW armies of yore can still be a thing, with all the bitterness dripping from this thread. Gonna go out on a limb and say sure, old IW armies of CSM + artillery are legal, but the meta has evolved and all the components of that classic build are overcosted / underperformers.

3: well, spike tax must exist.

QFT

Actually, you pay less for a spearhead of that kind (an R&H spearhead with 1 commander ) then a AM counterpart. Mainproblem is you won't get traits on the stuff in there, but frankly it isn't the worst longrange firepower you could buy out of the R&H list.
The main problem why you don't see R&H is mostly due to innate (read non AM/CSM) units sucking 95% off the time.

But an IW army of yore very well should work.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/20/20th-mar-vigilus-ablaze-previews-renegade-chapters-and-fallengw-homepage-post-3/


The first preview with genuine usable new rules

A Red Corsairs Battailon with 3 x 5manCSM, gives 8 CP!!
And the CSM can advance and charge.....thats actually not that bad

stormcraft wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/20/20th-mar-vigilus-ablaze-previews-renegade-chapters-and-fallengw-homepage-post-3/


The first preview with genuine usable new rules

Red Corsairs, well it looks like I found the rules for those CC terminators I want to run.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
Vicious Descent is very situational. Obviously, it's aimed at Warp Talons, allowing them to deep strike with rerolls on all hits and wounds.

The challenge is making the charge from 9 inches, similar to a Bloodletter Bomb (but without the +1 to charge from a Daemonic instrument. Giving them Mark of Khorne and putting them near something with Locus of Rage could be a way to make it work, but... why not just use Bloodletters at that point? Mobility after the assault?

There's either going to be some other mechanic which improves the odds of making a charge, or this will just make Warp Talons that much less desirable.

Raptors might benefit more being they'll have rerolls to hit on shooting and melee.

well they would, if, and that is a big one, their price point wouldn't be so meeeeeeeeeh

crimson slaughter seems fun

Yea the Red Corsair Battalion could become a Chaos Staple

The CS trait looks great till you realise its replacing something like AL's -1 to hit for the potential of maybe getting 1cp back a turn.

People will literally soup up somehow to have a durable mop up unit be 'crimson slaughter' to use this with the rest of the army being something else ofc

Well, there are a couple of amusing things about these previews/leaks/rumors:

1) The gatling gun being Heavy 8 AP-1 D1 follows along with the Chaos Space Marine tradition of the addition of the adjective "reaper" making a weapon 1/2 as effective as it's "non-Reaper" equivalent.

Reaper Autocannon = Autocannon that does 1 damage instead of 2.

Soulreaper = Rotor gun that does 4 shots instead of 8.

LOL.

2) Chaos marines now have a psychic power and a stratagem called "Prescience."

Make up NEW NAMES GW. Come on.

Instead of complaining here, contact the GW rules team and explain what it is you think is wrong. If enough people do this, they will rethink what they're offering.

40kfaq@gwplc.com

That is the email you can use. Please remember to be courteous, you'll catch more files with honey, than vinegar.

That’s fair, personally I’ve never tried to send them a list of my complaints.

However at this point I’m not sure what I could say. I mean, this is the company that designed AoS and actually thought it was good, and then they doubled down on that stupidity and ported over most of the rules to 40k.

You know when somebody says something so profoundly stupid that you don’t even know how far back you need to go to correct them? It would be like arguing with a Flat Earther or Anti-vaxer. All I could say would be to rewrite the entire game.

That recognizing Heretic Astartes poster gave a laugh though.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

Instead of complaining here, contact the GW rules team and explain what it is you think is wrong. If enough people do this, they will rethink what they're offering.

40kfaq@gwplc.com

That is the email you can use. Please remember to be courteous, you'll catch more files with honey, than vinegar.

That’s fair, personally I’ve never tried to send them a list of my complaints.

However at this point I’m not sure what I could say. I mean, this is the company that designed AoS and actually thought it was good, and then they doubled down on that stupidity and ported over most of the rules to 40k.

You know when somebody says something so profoundly stupid that you don’t even know how far back you need to go to correct them? It would be like arguing with a Flat Earther or Anti-vaxer. All I could say would be to rewrite the entire game.

That recognizing Heretic Astartes poster gave a laugh though.

I sent in a list of ideas I had for this army, they may not be able to do much now, but in the future for 9th age or whatever it will be called, these ideas could be used.

Well, this is a much better article.

I am fething pissed. It seems like they completely missed the boat on the Legions, but turn around and make Renegades fething amazing in comparison.

Beyond ridiculous. This is bullgak.

My Huron is very happy, he just wants to be made a little taller now!

Dudeface wrote:
My Huron is very happy, he just wants to be made a little taller now!

Just let his sooeerrrm i mean Hamadrya ride on his shoulders. :p

Players:

180 points for 5CP is ridiculous, it's outrageous, it's unfair, why would I ever take a MEQ?

GW: Surely what they want is a MEQ detachment with 8CP for 315 points!

Dear lord the Red Corsair battalion is insane, especially when you consider how garbage cultists are now.

8CP, 11 with the bonus for being battle forged and not only that but they get a master craft bolter with 6 shots when standing still and a S9 melta gun if something gets close.

Everything here is what the legions should have been. The purge stratagem has Iron Warriors written all over it lol. The Scourged strat is Night Lord lol. I guess the good news is you can just run these instead now lol. Kind of sucks to lose out on VoTLW though.

This demonstrates that GW can write good rules, blows my mind that they wrote these while the old trash traits still exist though. No way the rules team is capable of keeping a straight face on this.

Red corairs again looks great but do you wanna spend 195pts for 15 bare min CSM to get 3cp? no thanks

 Latro_ wrote:
Red corairs again looks great but do you wanna spend 195pts for 15 bare min CSM to get 3cp? no thanks

I would yes. When my alternative option is worthless cultists that no longer get a trait and cost 150.

I find it ironic, that what we have seen for Renegades is outperforming the old Legionary Veterans by, like , landslides.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Latro_ wrote:
Red corairs again looks great but do you wanna spend 195pts for 15 bare min CSM to get 3cp? no thanks

16 CP generated through 2 battalions for 630 pts.

That IS cheap for CP, especially for a faction that literally RUNS on CP.

Oh, c'mon! The Red corsairs trait is super busted and there's already people complaining

zinch wrote:
Oh, c'mon! The Red corsairs trait is super busted and there's already people complaining

Where?

 Latro_ wrote:
Red corairs again looks great but do you wanna spend 195pts for 15 bare min CSM to get 3cp? no thanks

Uh, hell yeah you would.

315 = min Red Corsair battalion. .0254 CPs/point.
270 = min battalion with cultists. .0185 CPs/point.

180 = loyal 32. .027 CPs/point.

Spiky 17 is pretty great. Also, gives you more CPs for a single detachment, which probably makes up for the slight points edge that the loyal 32 has.