Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
I know it's been mentioned multiple times already, but ForgeWorld makes rotor cannons that will probably be much cheaper than buying individual bitz from bitz sellers.

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-WW/Proteus-Pattern-Rotor-Cannon-Set

Pop Goes The Monkey makes them in a few varieties as well.

Oh, they're a different look from the ones in the Havoc box, absolutely, but they remain an option for people who want it. It's still a scummy move on GWs part, I'm just spreading awareness of potential ways around it. I like the Havoc one better too, but not better enough to buy 4 boxes of Havocs or to pay bitz sellers for it.

I recognize the work. He's done some pretty cool Tyranids and SoB sculpts you can 3d print.

Yeah, I'm planning on making some this weekend, to see how they look.

So, people are still pretending that a unit of havocs with 4x reaper chaincannons is remotely a thing you'd want to do, huh?

I'm not saying it's not uncool for GW to make a new weapon and only put one in the box, but I'm just sitting here scratching my head and wondering why everyone actually wants to build this unit. They seem about as competitive as double lightning claw vanvets to me: decent damage if you can get them where they need to be, but hideously overcosted for their 1W 3+ no invuln profile.

33 points for a marine body! +1T is not going to make those not the VERY FIRST thing I shoot when I'm playing against you.

the_scotsman wrote:
So, people are still pretending that a unit of havocs with 4x reaper chaincannons is remotely a thing you'd want to do, huh?

I'm not saying it's not uncool for GW to make a new weapon and only put one in the box, but I'm just sitting here scratching my head and wondering why everyone actually wants to build this unit. They seem about as competitive as double lightning claw vanvets to me: decent damage if you can get them where they need to be, but hideously overcosted for their 1W 3+ no invuln profile.

33 points for a marine body! +1T is not going to make those not the VERY FIRST thing I shoot when I'm playing against you.

Because csm stratagems reward bigger or more base Shooty units more.
8 shots turn to 16 f.e. Therefore the rotor is miles better then the hb even though mathemathically they are basically excactly the same shots per pts.

the_scotsman wrote:
So, people are still pretending that a unit of havocs with 4x reaper chaincannons is remotely a thing you'd want to do, huh?

I'm not saying it's not uncool for GW to make a new weapon and only put one in the box, but I'm just sitting here scratching my head and wondering why everyone actually wants to build this unit. They seem about as competitive as double lightning claw vanvets to me: decent damage if you can get them where they need to be, but hideously overcosted for their 1W 3+ no invuln profile.

33 points for a marine body! +1T is not going to make those not the VERY FIRST thing I shoot when I'm playing against you.

I agree. The whole concept strikes me as an unstoppable unit "on paper". And probably most people will end up remarking, after spending a ton of money to build, that it is a unit that never seems to do what they thought it would do.

Onslaught gattling cannons always look super intimidating when the dice are rolled at one of my units but they never seem to do anything. The reaper chaincannon is better than the small onslaught and worse than the big onslaught and I feel it will throw heaping piles of 'meh' at me if I ever see it.

Every model that you kill in the squad will drastically lower its threat potential and given its range and methods delivery you might only get a turn to blow the whole unit on some worthless chaff.

I think the place I'll use the uber-rotor cannon, if at all, is basic CSM squads, not so much in Havoc squads. A heavy weapon squad typically relies on distance and ablative wounds to stay around long enough to stick around. This version of Havocs have neither. They will likely die relatively quickly and using abilities like shooting twice doesn't make them play better as much as it compensates for not lasting longer.

Terminator article made me sad.
Lots of stuff and nonsense about being a melee unit (that also should have heavy weapons because reasons), but they're so amazingly hard to kill that you must hide them in melee, which somehow magically doesn't have volume of attacks, despite lots of armies having cheap units with multiple attacks and/or bonus attack weapons and/or rerolls.

Good completely unrelated psychic power though: No invulnerable saves.

I don't think the 4 chaingun havoc unit will be a thing, but I do think people will want a lot of chainguns. A troops unit of 5 CSMs with a chaingun and combi-bolter seems very viable. I can certainly see these having a place in battalions and maybe even brigades.

So either way you cut it, people will want lots of chainguns. I guess it might be worth building some havocs with autocannons or maybe lascannons.

I don't know why they still bother making CSMs with heavy bolters though. What an absurd choice that would be.

Mandragola wrote:
I don't think the 4 chaingun havoc unit will be a thing, but I do think people will want a lot of chainguns. A troops unit of 5 CSMs with a chaingun and combi-bolter seems very viable. I can certainly see these having a place in battalions and maybe even brigades.

So either way you cut it, people will want lots of chainguns. I guess it might be worth building some havocs with autocannons or maybe lascannons.

I don't know why they still bother making CSMs with heavy bolters though. What an absurd choice that would be.

I have actually though about this very similarly. 5 CSM squad with Chaingun + Combi-bolter seems kinda competive.

But it all comes down to point cost and I expect Chaingun costing easily over 20+ points.

Honestly, a single squad of Havocs with all Rotors would be a great suicide unit. You just gotta mark them as Slaanesh is all.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Honestly, a single squad of Havocs with all Rotors would be a great suicide unit. You just gotta mark them as Slaanesh is all.

Alpha Legion, parked a bit upfield in cover as part of a Devastation Battery could also be nasty IMO.

It's still effectively a suicide unit but damn is that some potential board control.

With Punishing Volley, 4x Chaingun Havoks will likely earn back their points before an enemy can kill them. Also said opponent will likely spend more resources removing them than they were worth... a net gain for you.

Also if you have far juicier threats and Havoks survive they'll likely keep being way more disruptive than 150-ish points would suggest.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
And are very clean and non-Chaotic.

I'm sure there some random bitz on the CSM sprues to help make them spiky.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
With Punishing Volley, 4x Chaingun Havoks will likely earn back their points before an enemy can kill them. Also said opponent will likely spend more resources removing them than they were worth... a net gain for you.

Also if you have far juicier threats and Havoks survive they'll likely keep being way more disruptive than 150-ish points would suggest.

They're a good unit, but it isn't that simple. Especially with no ablative wounds.

Havocs with chainguns. Stuck them in a rhino. Stick them near the Stargate or a deredo for an invul. There is ways to make them last

They’re a good unit because of what they can do in one volley.

Put them in a rhino and they can disembark 3 inches and then move a full 6 giving them a threat range of 33, you can even warptime them for a threat range of 40. Then you can prescience them so now they’re hitting on 2”s rerolling 1’s. With cacophony they’re doubling their shots so 32 becomes 64.

Because their main target is chaff they don’t need a huge range because chaff is always deployed ahead of the main army. Plus at 150 pointts and t5 they require quite a bit of firepower to take down with small arms. And even better if someone uses heavy weapons to take them out. That’s heavy weapons not shooting at your armor

Has anyone realized, that all the squads of terminators they showed so far have the excact same weapon composition?

Mandragola wrote:
I don't know why they still bother making CSMs with heavy bolters though.

Why not? Someone actually pointed out earlier conversion from HB to minigun is trivial, just replace HB barrel with rotary element. It's so simple conversion you can do it in a few minutes yourself out of plastic tube and greenstuff no problem...

 AduroT wrote:
Pop Goes The Monkey makes them in a few varieties as well.

People still recommend that ?

Not only he shown he has law in his behind and is all around terrible person, his stuff (at least things that aren't 1:1 copy/paste knockoffs of GW bits) look like garbage on top of being so expensive even Forge World looks reasonable in comparison

Not Online!!! wrote:
Has anyone realized, that all the squads of terminators they showed so far have the excact same weapon composition?

proably cause they're all the same termies. they built a single squad for the studio army and left it at that. not even GW thinks lots of termies is good!

BrianDavion wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Has anyone realized, that all the squads of terminators they showed so far have the excact same weapon composition?

proably cause they're all the same termies. they built a single squad for the studio army and left it at that. not even GW thinks lots of termies is good!

Well they nearly built for all groups a squad and all have a reaper with energy fist.
I do hope we get atleast there 5 Chainaxes.

Um, they're in different color schemes though?

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Um, they're in different color schemes though?

That's not what brothers be though.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Um, they're in different color schemes though?

That's not what brothers be though.

I was responding to Brian's assertion that it was just a single squad.

 Irbis wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
I don't know why they still bother making CSMs with heavy bolters though.

Why not? Someone actually pointed out earlier conversion from HB to minigun is trivial, just replace HB barrel with rotary element. It's so simple conversion you can do it in a few minutes yourself out of plastic tube and greenstuff no problem...

How very nice of them! I know when I'm paying $12 a miniature I always prefer them to include a weapon close to the one I want so as to make it easier for me to convert my parts from scratch instead of, oh I don't know, just including more than 1 of the part I actually want. No, no I much prefer them including multiple copies of the weapon that has literally been in every single box of plastic multipart Chaos Space Marines ever produced rather than the new weapon that nobody has any copies of because it didn't exist up until now and that does basically the same thing as the old weapon but better.

I mean I don't know about you, but when I go rummaging through my bits box the first thing I always think is man, I wish I had me some more chaos heavy bolter bits. But it looks like at long last my prayers have finally been answered! Now all I need are some left-handed powerfists pointing at something and I think I'm set. Thanks GW!

Mandragola wrote:
I don't think the 4 chaingun havoc unit will be a thing, but I do think people will want a lot of chainguns. A troops unit of 5 CSMs with a chaingun and combi-bolter seems very viable. I can certainly see these having a place in battalions and maybe even brigades.

So either way you cut it, people will want lots of chainguns. I guess it might be worth building some havocs with autocannons or maybe lascannons.

I don't know why they still bother making CSMs with heavy bolters though. What an absurd choice that would be.

For the love of God.

SOME. OF. US. DON'T. USE. UPGRADES. THE. COMPETITIVE. WAY.

We like things like Meltaguns, Heavy Flamers, Terminators and Heavy Bolters. We put them on units we like. We go play and we have a great time with our friends, without Castellan knights, Ynarri bull sauce and all the other hyper competitive nonsense.

It's okay, the Heavy Bolters on the sprue won't hurt you.

@Irbis: I have never had any problems with working with that maker (didn't know anybody ever did) or his products (I have found his pauldrons extremely useful in my conversions). So as not to take the conversation off track, please PM me with your experience.

 Togusa wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
I don't think the 4 chaingun havoc unit will be a thing, but I do think people will want a lot of chainguns. A troops unit of 5 CSMs with a chaingun and combi-bolter seems very viable. I can certainly see these having a place in battalions and maybe even brigades.

So either way you cut it, people will want lots of chainguns. I guess it might be worth building some havocs with autocannons or maybe lascannons.

I don't know why they still bother making CSMs with heavy bolters though. What an absurd choice that would be.

For the love of God.

SOME. OF. US. DON'T. USE. UPGRADES. THE. COMPETITIVE. WAY.

We like things like Meltaguns, Heavy Flamers, Terminators and Heavy Bolters. We put them on units we like. We go play and we have a great time with our friends, without Castellan knights, Ynarri bull sauce and all the other hyper competitive nonsense.

It's okay, the Heavy Bolters on the sprue won't hurt you.

Sombody get this guy a heresy!

Games Workshop wrote:The following weapon options are included in the kit.

- 1 chain axe
- 1 chainfist
- 1 power sword
- 1 power axe
- 1 power maul
- 2 power fists
- 2 lightning claws
- 1 heavy flamer
- 1 reaper autocannon
- 5 combi-weapons

That's the Terminator stuff.

There's enough parts for 2x Combi Flamers or Combi Meltas, 1x Combi Plasma(that I see--I might have missed it), and 5x Combi Bolters.