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 bullyboy wrote:
Ok, hear me out on this one, and it may alleviate some of the hostility toward GW regarding the terminators. Chaos and Imperium are different. Chaos warriors are extremely old and I'd expect each terminator is technically a character onto himself. Therefore, in GW eyes each terminator should be equipped differently to show this individuality. This is probably their thought process which unfortunately doesn't help more competitive players, but then again, people should know GW doesn't primarily cater to that crowd anyway.
So instead of having access to different kit for different jobs like the Imperium, they are more attached to a certain weapon loadout in a personal way.

The problem with this is chainaxes are the DEFAULT loadout. One of everything else I get, but one of the basic barebones option? Get fethed.

Terrible Terminators are terrible. They should have saved the mold cost and invested in cocaine instead. Would have done more good.

 bullyboy wrote:
Ok, hear me out on this one, and it may alleviate some of the hostility toward GW regarding the terminators. Chaos and Imperium are different. Chaos warriors are extremely old and I'd expect each terminator is technically a character onto himself. Therefore, in GW eyes each terminator should be equipped differently to show this individuality. This is probably their thought process which unfortunately doesn't help more competitive players, but then again, people should know GW doesn't primarily cater to that crowd anyway.
So instead of having access to different kit for different jobs like the Imperium, they are more attached to a certain weapon loadout in a personal way.

I wasn't going to say anything, but since you already jinxed it, here we go. Sky Dwarfs and the big gun rats in Age of Sigmar got their original unit entries nerfed to exactly what's on the sprue as a fix for having only one gun option in the box but rules for several guns per unit on their warscroll.

I think it is important to keep complaining about the missing weapon options in these kits. You know what you can look forward to once GW feels the need to fix the situation.

Yup, the lack of the basic options is just daft. CSM''s should have at minimum 10 bolters and 10 bolt pistols and chainswords, Terminators should have the 5 chainaxes and Havocs should have 4 heavy bolters. I would take the Havoc Sergeant having reduced options in the sprue as well, another heavy weapon *cough, rotor cannon* in place of a couple of the special weapons would be fine as meltas and plasmas are generally easy to get hold of.

A quick scan of YouTube Havoc unboxings reveals the third Havoc sprue as well. Looks to be nothing exciting on there, two bodies and the 4 expected weapons.

ListenToMeWarriors wrote:
Yup, the lack of the basic options is just daft. CSM''s should have at minimum 10 bolters and 10 bolt pistols and chainswords, Terminators should have the 5 chainaxes and Havocs should have 4 heavy bolters. I would take the Havoc Sergeant having reduced options in the sprue as well, another heavy weapon *cough, rotor cannon* in place of a couple of the special weapons would be fine as meltas and plasmas are generally easy to get hold of.

A quick scan of YouTube Havoc unboxings reveals the third Havoc sprue as well. Looks to be nothing exciting on there, two bodies and the 4 expected weapons.

Do you maybe have any link to the unboxings? I'd appreciate it


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So I've managed to make this guy using the Shadowspear AC body:


Primed with one of the new Vallejo sprays, btw.

 Geifer wrote:

I wasn't going to say anything, but since you already jinxed it, here we go. Sky Dwarfs and the big gun rats in Age of Sigmar got their original unit entries nerfed to exactly what's on the sprue as a fix for having only one gun option in the box but rules for several guns per unit on their warscroll.

I think it is important to keep complaining about the missing weapon options in these kits. You know what you can look forward to once GW feels the need to fix the situation.

It's a bit offtopic here, but the reason behind Overlords' gun nerf was that one choice was wildly outpacing the rest when it came to picks.
Add to it the Aether-Khemist's rule(pick a single weapon in the unit, add +1 to its attacks values) and the Grundstock Mortar became 2A 4+/3+ causing D3 damage.
Now?
The unit has a 'firing order', effectively, that makes it so the Aether Khemist's rule isn't going to be making things as dumb.

Stormfiends have had the writing on the wall since End Times. It just took them actually getting an army book for the change to happen.

You can keep repeating that until the cows come home Kan, but I don't believe for a second that they changed the unit's options to match the kit exactly because of 'balance' reasons.

 bullyboy wrote:
Therefore, in GW eyes each terminator should be equipped differently to show this individuality.

If that were true, wouldn't there be more variety, not less?

Has anyone’s digital version of codex chaos space marines updated yet to the new version on iBooks?

ListenToMeWarriors wrote:
Yup, the lack of the basic options is just daft. CSM''s should have at minimum 10 bolters and 10 bolt pistols and chainswords, Terminators should have the 5 chainaxes and Havocs should have 4 heavy bolters.

Would you pay 50% more for each box your proposition would cost?

No, really, what you said would do exactly that, because that much pointless (especially the 4 heavy bolters no one uses...) gear would fill another sprue by itself with trivial ease. Also, your way of thinking makes no sense, you want to ditch special weapons (stuff that tends to be by far the most expensive bit on ebay or bit sites) in favour of bolters and other junk that not only costs peanuts per dozen everywhere, but you can have it for free if you ask nicely someone with big CSM or SM collection? What?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
You can keep repeating that until the cows come home Kan, but I don't believe for a second that they changed the unit's options to match the kit exactly because of 'balance' reasons.

Deathwatch, Sternguard and Fallen can fill every squad with the exact same gun choice no problem despite only having 1 (or 0) in box. I wonder, why GW didn't nerf them exact same way if bits are the only consideration?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Therefore, in GW eyes each terminator should be equipped differently to show this individuality.

If that were true, wouldn't there be more variety, not less?

Like what? Give the box only half of each weapon?

I think its pretty obvious that they do this to encourage us to buy more than one box, they are really nice models, but not that nice.

Saw unboxing video on Terminators and it does come with only 2 sprues. Well looks like I am ordering some extra bits then.


Although I have to say that those kits do come with superb decal sheet.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
You can keep repeating that until the cows come home Kan, but I don't believe for a second that they changed the unit's options to match the kit exactly because of 'balance' reasons.

 bullyboy wrote:
Therefore, in GW eyes each terminator should be equipped differently to show this individuality.

If that were true, wouldn't there be more variety, not less?

Not at all. With only 1 weapon type each model has to be different.

 bullyboy wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
You can keep repeating that until the cows come home Kan, but I don't believe for a second that they changed the unit's options to match the kit exactly because of 'balance' reasons.

 bullyboy wrote:
Therefore, in GW eyes each terminator should be equipped differently to show this individuality.

If that were true, wouldn't there be more variety, not less?

Not at all. With only 1 weapon type each model has to be different.

It's a shame varied weapon loadouts are near universally worthless when compared with standardized and mono-units.

The fact there's only one combi-plasma in the box (incidentally, the best combi-weapon there) should come as no surprise to anyone.

 blood reaper wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
You can keep repeating that until the cows come home Kan, but I don't believe for a second that they changed the unit's options to match the kit exactly because of 'balance' reasons.

 bullyboy wrote:
Therefore, in GW eyes each terminator should be equipped differently to show this individuality.

If that were true, wouldn't there be more variety, not less?

Not at all. With only 1 weapon type each model has to be different.

It's a shame varied weapon loadouts are near universally worthless when compared with standardized and mono-units.

The fact there's only one combi-plasma in the box (incidentally, the best combi-weapon there) should come as no surprise to anyone.

Same with the Chainaxe really.

.....

So having received my Vigilus Ablaze today and had a flick through, it might be my nativity but I expected the shadowspear units to be in there. I know I had the choice of codex or expansion, but the flowchart kinda indicated I wouldn't need the revised codex, when apparently I do.

Edit: Sorry I can carry a pdf extra ontop of it all when they could have just reprinted them in the updates rules.

 Irbis wrote:
Like what? Give the box only half of each weapon?

Nothing you post makes any sense. Maybe you should just stop?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Irbis wrote:
Like what? Give the box only half of each weapon?

Nothing you post makes any sense. Maybe you should just stop?

Maybe it's just you? The argument made perfect sense: If you're forced to build each model with different loadouts because there's only one of each, that forces diversity. The point Irbis was making was that one of each weapon is the lowest you can go if your aim is to force diversity because something has to exist in order to be an option; we don't get half of a weapon in kits.

Do people really believe that GW would put small amounts of random weapons to *force diversity* and not more realistically to *sell more boxes*?
Because even people not playing competitive would rather equip their squad with the same weapons simply because having 5 different weapons doesn't make any sense and is actually bloody annoying to play.
"Let me make 5 different hit rolls and wound rolls for my MSU squad, ho wait I need to first check the various different weapons ranges to see who can hit what."

And if you think the price of a box is a direct consequences of the number/density of sprues, you are delusional.

Wayniac wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Ok, hear me out on this one, and it may alleviate some of the hostility toward GW regarding the terminators. Chaos and Imperium are different. Chaos warriors are extremely old and I'd expect each terminator is technically a character onto himself. Therefore, in GW eyes each terminator should be equipped differently to show this individuality. This is probably their thought process which unfortunately doesn't help more competitive players, but then again, people should know GW doesn't primarily cater to that crowd anyway.
So instead of having access to different kit for different jobs like the Imperium, they are more attached to a certain weapon loadout in a personal way.

The problem with this is chainaxes are the DEFAULT loadout. One of everything else I get, but one of the basic barebones option? Get fethed.

Just like the Eldar War Walker. Basic loadout is 2 Shurikens, but there's only one in the box.

I haven't seen the pricing for the new Terminator kit, but I'm probably just going to build up my Calth/Prospero Termies for my Chaos force. Those kits have a decent amount of options and I can kitbash anything else probably not too difficultly.

 krakjen wrote:
Do people really believe that GW would put small amounts of random weapons to *force diversity* and not more realistically to *sell more boxes*?
Because even people not playing competitive would rather equip their squad with the same weapons simply because having 5 different weapons doesn't make any sense and is actually bloody annoying to play.
"Let me make 5 different hit rolls and wound rolls for my MSU squad, ho wait I need to first check the various different weapons ranges to see who can hit what."

And if you think the price of a box is a direct consequences of the number/density of sprues, you are delusional.

Hate to say it but this makes no sense. People aren't going to buy 5 boxes of terms just to equip 5 dudes the way they want. That is not GWs reason to make the sprues this way. It would be delusional on their behalf.

 bullyboy wrote:

 krakjen wrote:
Do people really believe that GW would put small amounts of random weapons to *force diversity* and not more realistically to *sell more boxes*?
Because even people not playing competitive would rather equip their squad with the same weapons simply because having 5 different weapons doesn't make any sense and is actually bloody annoying to play.
"Let me make 5 different hit rolls and wound rolls for my MSU squad, ho wait I need to first check the various different weapons ranges to see who can hit what."

And if you think the price of a box is a direct consequences of the number/density of sprues, you are delusional.

Hate to say it but this makes no sense. People aren't going to buy 5 boxes of terms just to equip 5 dudes the way they want. That is not GWs reason to make the sprues this way. It would be delusional on their behalf.

This isn't true, sadly I know of MANY folks that buy multiples of kits just so they can achieve one optimal load out.

The scalpers on eaby are going to have a field day. So far no one is parting out the kits, but thats normal this early. Gona be 5 bucks per chain axe So you would be better off buying multiple kits.

I think I am going to be odd and buy the old ones for cheaper while I can. The new terminators still have moronic proportions but at least the old kit is easily fixed by adding a small sphere of greenstuff under the body bits so they have a waist, then lowering the arms slightly. The new guys are solidly modled to their legs, good luck fixing stumpy.

 bullyboy wrote:

 krakjen wrote:
Do people really believe that GW would put small amounts of random weapons to *force diversity* and not more realistically to *sell more boxes*?
Because even people not playing competitive would rather equip their squad with the same weapons simply because having 5 different weapons doesn't make any sense and is actually bloody annoying to play.
"Let me make 5 different hit rolls and wound rolls for my MSU squad, ho wait I need to first check the various different weapons ranges to see who can hit what."

And if you think the price of a box is a direct consequences of the number/density of sprues, you are delusional.

Hate to say it but this makes no sense. People aren't going to buy 5 boxes of terms just to equip 5 dudes the way they want. That is not GWs reason to make the sprues this way. It would be delusional on their behalf.

I was tempted to ask when being delusional has ever stopped GW, but I actually agree with you. Not because I think GW wouldn't try to wring extra sales out of deliberate bits shortage, which I'm inclined to think is the case with Havocs, but because everything about the Terminators strikes me as GW considering it a second rate box that's not worth the effort or expense to redo properly. The whole batch looks like they got their latest hire to prove themselves on an established design and only allowed for the barest budget necessary to get them on sprue. Even pricing them as they do seems like an attempt to get as much money out of the kit as possibly because they expect enough people already have all the Terminators they'll ever need and won't buy new ones. Might be a question of sprue budget for Chaos Marines in general, allowing them to redo Terminators along with releasing all the actual new stuff as long as they keep it cheap.

I have no trouble believing that with Chaos Terminators the designers actually thought having a wild mix of weapons in a single squad was desirable because it's so fluffy, as you mentioned earlier.

I just think the Terminator box could have a third sprue with many more weapons. That way it could have justified his price.

As it is know, is just a bad kit in relation price-value/variety/sprues, just like the Deathsroud terminators are horrible in that regard even if I have one kit because they are very cool, but they are three tiny character like sprues (?) for a elite unit.
One could say "Yeah but if they sold those three sprues separately they would cost 30€ each!"... yeah Sherlock. Because characters are characters, those are an elite unit.

 Red Corsair wrote:
The scalpers on eaby are going to have a field day. So far no one is parting out the kits, but thats normal this early. Gona be 5 bucks per chain axe

Good luck with that given even FW ones are 2$ a pop...

REMOVED, MIND YOUR MANNERS - BrookM

 Galas wrote:
I just think the Terminator box could have a third sprue with many more weapons. That way it could have justified his price.

As it is know, is just a bad kit in relation price-value/variety/sprues, just like the Deathsroud terminators are horrible in that regard even if I have one kit because they are very cool, but they are three tiny character like sprues (?) for a elite unit.
One could say "Yeah but if they sold those three sprues separately they would cost 30€ each!"... yeah Sherlock. Because characters are characters, those are an elite unit.

They seem to want to keep these kits on 2 sprues though. That said, have a look at the wolf guard terminator kit lol. They wasted too much space on this kit making the legs/bodies you have the same space it normally takes for 5 sets of legs and 5 bodies used on just one half of the body with one leg. So double that THEN add the second leg and that is the major reason this kit is so limited. It's also strange to me that they double the number of heads you get in the new kit, but halved the variety. Their is no ram or rhino head in there.

Silver lining is they managed to keep all the available options from the data sheet and actually added the sword in the kit meaning it's safe next time they update lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Irbis wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
The scalpers on eaby are going to have a field day. So far no one is parting out the kits, but thats normal this early. Gona be 5 bucks per chain axe

Good luck with that given even FW ones are 2$ a pop...

REMOVED, MIND YOUR MANNERS - BrookM

I have purchased those FW chain axes, so I can personally attest to how garbage they are. They break as soon as you look at them, that's if they manage to get to you in tact with no errors.

Trying to make the kit work somewhat and looking at the poweraxe upgrade kti from forgeworld.
Problem is they are cataphractii so you'd have to cut of all the axes and then you'd still not have enough arms to make a complete default loadout...
So I tried just putting on the cataphractii arms, I mean, chaos do scrounge right?

could this work? Although I'm not sure where to get the combi bolter arms? seems to be only axes and special wepoins are sold seprately

The issue is, at least to me, you should not have to scrounge from other kits or buy from bits sellers just to get the basic loadouts. This is already a £35 (apply your local currency) kit with limited poseability and odd options, you should not be forced to buy other bits. Not everyone has a limitless bits box with countless options either. Recently GW has made some great kits and positive moves, but having such an iconic unit as Chaos Terminators basically be forced to have a Hodge podge of options straight from the box is daft.

This really wouldn't be a problem if GW sold special weapon upgrade packs, but no, they really want you to buy whole kits to get things, even if people would be more inclined to buy a $60 termi kit and a $20 upgrade than $120 of terminators.

Don't really think that's a solution consider the Cataphractii Terminators are even more expensive again, never mind buying resin chain axes.

If loyalists can get upgrades then why can't Chaos?

 Gael Knight wrote:
Don't really think that's a solution consider the Cataphractii Terminators are even more expensive again, never mind buying resin chain axes.

If loyalists can get upgrades then why can't Chaos?

They have those kits from 3rd edition. That counts, right?

 Gael Knight wrote:
Don't really think that's a solution consider the Cataphractii Terminators are even more expensive again, never mind buying resin chain axes.

If loyalists can get upgrades then why can't Chaos?

The upgrades kits are a lot cheaper than buying 5 boxes and you don't need to buy cataphractii terminators for the axes +arms.
That said I can't find any bolter arms, so yea that would mean having to buy the actual terminators, at which point there is no point to the GW kit at all unless you REALLY like the aesthetics.
Having two different types of arms would look silly. sad times

For the loadout I used in the pic it looks like you would need to buy you're choce of forgeworld termies + some kti that has bolters+ the axes :(