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BrianDavion wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
I think I see what you mean but consider this: We’re not really talking about some Administratum functionary replacing his fingernails with fountain pen nibs. That sort of thing could well be “normal” in 40k but’s also irrelevant to the question at hand, which is the theme of a person like you or I, without the aid of being enhanced by sci fi tech, standing up against the worst horrors that the galaxy and the Warp beyond it can offer.

which has never been the theme of the sisters of battle. the sisters are NOT people like you or I, they're people taken in as young children, and brain washed to be religious fantatics, who have a strength of faith that is, bluntly put, alien to anyone on earth today (they've more in common with a taliban sucide bomber then you or I) the everyman of the Imperium? thats the GUARD.

True. They believe SOOO hard that anti-tank rounds sometimes just bounce off. Just normal folks is a hard sell.

 EnTyme wrote:
Right. I'm sure those cables coming out of the heads of two of the Repentia are just really cumbersome earrings . . . connected to the temple . . . for . . . reasons . . .

Sure, they’re cables for bionics. What does that have to do with power armor interfaces? No variant of power armor helmet requires hookups like that.

She could be a disgraced vehicle driver/pilot though, it’s common for them to use bionics in their skull/neck to link directly into their craft. Good catch in that regard, we now have some background for one of the models from the old Repentia kit!

Don't you guys understand? Manch is a real Sisters of Battle fan because he's been playing them for [[ARBITRARILY SELECTED NUMBER OF YEARS]]. The rest of us just don't get the theme of the army! Not like REAL FANS do!

 Manchu wrote:
I have no trouble believing those cables could be interfaces for something like a Penitent Engine.

Penitent Engine is not even a Sisters unit, it is an Ecclesiarchy unit. They have nothing to do with the Repentia.

But the fact that Sisters models in PA without helmets on don’t have bundles of cables jutting out of their heads is a pretty clear indication that they aren’t PA interfaces.

They have hair and these are old crude heroic scale models. This straw-grasping became laughable ages ago, it's like arguing with a creationist.

 zend wrote:
Sure, they’re cables for bionics. What does that have to do with power armor interfaces?

Bingo.

Similarly, the only reason we know that the details on the retconned Repentia renders indicate Sisters use implanted plugs to interface with their PA is because GW has explicitly told us so.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crimson wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
I have no trouble believing those cables could be interfaces for something like a Penitent Engine.

Penitent Engine is not even a Sisters unit, it is an Ecclesiarchy unit. They have nothing to do with the Repentia.

”something like a Penitent Engine” ... but sure, just continue misrepresenting (or misunderstanding?) the posts you’re quoting ...

it’s like arguing with a creationist

LOL ‘fraid these constant insults just aren’t helping your case.

Does it really matters if it's a retcon or an addtion ? Now sisters use plugs to wear PA.
Some folks like it, some don't like it and some don't care.
And obviously nobody here will change its mind even if the emperor himself would post here to settle the quarrel.

 Manchu wrote:
Right, there is no getting around the obvious fact that the original Repentia models had no PA interface plugs whereas the retconned renders from the bulletins do.

There's also no getting around the fact that the old sculpts were terrible, and did a poor job of representing what the Repentia were supposed to be in the first place.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Manchu wrote:
Thanks for posting a pic showing that the original models did not include PA plugs. Just like that was never mentioned in the fluff.

Check their heads.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Manchu wrote:
I have no trouble believing those cables could be interfaces for something like a Penitent Engine. But the fact that Sisters models in PA without helmets on don’t have bundles of cables jutting out of their heads is a pretty clear indication that they aren’t PA interfaces.

The sisters in armor without helmets have enough hair in their scifi bob cuts that they could be hiding them under that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 EnTyme wrote:
Don't you guys understand? Manch is a real Sisters of Battle fan because he's been playing them for [[ARBITRARILY SELECTED NUMBER OF YEARS]]. The rest of us just don't get the theme of the army! Not like REAL FANS do!

AKA slightly more than some of us, and slightly less than others of us.

 Melissia wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
I've not seen very much enthusiasm either.

Maybe you haven't looked very hard? The people saying "I hate this" always drown out everyone else, because they have the most motivation to do so. Only so much you can do with saying either "I like this" or "I kinda like this". It's a similar problem restaurants face with customer review sites-- people often go and eat and enjoy then don't say anything, but if they get a bad experience they HAVE to tell someone.

Doesn't mean every customer has the negative experience, however.

I mean, what needs to be looked hard at? When I look at the discussion here, on FB, among folk I know, and I compare it to the discussion about the new Sisters generally and what we've seen of the power armoured units so far I see more "I hate this", orders of magnitude less "I love this", and a fair number of the people expressing non-negative sentiment fall into the "well, it's not that bad I suppose" category. This isn't the restaurant situation, because we have two directly comparable, directly linked sets of reactions to examine and compare, and the levels of positivity/negativity/apathy are clearly(to my eye anyway) different between them.

There was very little outright dislike for the regular Sisters; there's evidently substantially more for the Repentia. People were, broadly, hype for the regular Sisters; people seem to be, broadly, unenthusiastically tolerant of the Repentia.

Yeah, I’m with the others here; I don’t see how hand-selected orphans of the Imperial Elite, trained to military standard athletic endurance and miraculous standard fanaticism, gifted with holy weapons and sometimes able to literally resurrect themselves from death fit the theme of ‘normal’ people in the slightest.
Maybe if they were recruiting from House Cawdor on Necromunda or something… but then they’d have to have surgery to correct all the deformities caused by malnutrition, not to mention the constant exposure to toxic waste.

 Mmmpi wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
I have no trouble believing those cables could be interfaces for something like a Penitent Engine. But the fact that Sisters models in PA without helmets on don’t have bundles of cables jutting out of their heads is a pretty clear indication that they aren’t PA interfaces.

The sisters in armor without helmets have enough hair in their scifi bob cuts that they could be hiding them under that.

You're arguing that miniatures never depicted with visible interfaces have them hidden under hair, retroactively.

40k is a visual universe where any mechanical enhancement to a body is ordinarily explicitly depicted. Subtle enhancements/prosthetics exist in the lore but the miniatures tend towards steel boxes jutting out of skulls and skeletal T-800 style metal limbs for the same reason that Custodes are bigger than Astartes- power and purpose are shown on the model. In Warhammer 40,000 Jackie Chan would be 7 foot tall and his base would suggest he just karate chopped a landraider in two.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Yeah, I’m with the others here; I don’t see how hand-selected orphans of the Imperial Elite, trained to military standard athletic endurance and miraculous standard fanaticism, gifted with holy weapons and sometimes able to literally resurrect themselves from death fit the theme of ‘normal’ people in the slightest.
Maybe if they were recruiting from House Cawdor on Necromunda or something… but then they’d have to have surgery to correct all the deformities caused by malnutrition, not to mention the constant exposure to toxic waste.

Normal is a relative term in 40k. Normal in the sense that they would be the upper limits on what our planet can produce today, not wizards or cyborgs.
They also happen to inhabit a universe where faith produces tangible phenomena and where their god manifests flaming skull faced angels with bolters, in addition to resurrection miracles.
If guard are meant to be the common soldier (in a future fantasy hell) then sisters are militant religious fanatics (in a future fantasy hell). Both are distinct from marines by virtue of being human beings that have not been surgically enhanced*

*Guardsmen + surgery/combat drugs happens all the time in various warzones, but is also rare enough that its not representative of how the guard fights generally. Likewise bionics are common enough in the guard and sisters, just not representative of the average, default soldier.

 =Angel= wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
I have no trouble believing those cables could be interfaces for something like a Penitent Engine. But the fact that Sisters models in PA without helmets on don’t have bundles of cables jutting out of their heads is a pretty clear indication that they aren’t PA interfaces.

The sisters in armor without helmets have enough hair in their scifi bob cuts that they could be hiding them under that.

You're arguing that miniatures never depicted with visible interfaces have them hidden under hair, retroactively.


40k is a visual universe where any mechanical enhancement to a body is ordinarily explicitly depicted. Subtle enhancements/prosthetics exist in the lore but the miniatures tend towards steel boxes jutting out of skulls and skeletal T-800 style metal limbs for the same reason that Custodes are bigger than Astartes- power and purpose are shown on the model. In Warhammer 40,000 Jackie Chan would be 7 foot tall and his base would suggest he just karate chopped a landraider in two.

So was the person arguing that those models didn't have visible ports. A point was raised, and was answered. That's how discussions work.
Sure. Back in 1998. Now that it's 2019 things have changed a bit, both in lore, and in modeling ability. GW has decided that in general, sisters have neural interfaces for their armor. Before they didn't say one way or another, but some models and art displayed connectors a cybernetic cable links, some didn't.

Just going to say, we're cruising past 25 pages of this.

Nothing says EVERY suit of power armor works this way, there's even an instance in the Cain book of initiates of the ages of 14-18(assuming they're the same age as cain's students) using sororitas training armor.

Unless we count crimson as a primary source this is actually getting stupider than the Ork news thread got.

Meanwhile I'm just hoping them being given a direct interface will give them some slightly better stats in game...

I don't think they are ports and are actually a futuristic form of nicotine patch, as is stated in the books Sisters are very heavy smokers and the repenta are just trying to quit, obviously that makes them cranky so they give them a chainsword and tell them to get on with it.

Samko wrote:
Does it really matters if it's a retcon or an addtion ? Now sisters use plugs to wear PA.
Some folks like it, some don't like it and some don't care.
And obviously nobody here will change its mind even if the emperor himself would post here to settle the quarrel.

I'm with you there.
As somebody who is not invested in the range and has little knowledge on it, the discussion was quite interesting - for the first two pages or so. Every argument for and against has been raised now, and repeated ad nauseam. I'm pretty sure everybody has made up their mind as to what to consider this - whether a clarification, an extension or a replacement of previous lore. It really doesn't matter. It doesn't matter because A) the new lore certainly is quite clear on the topic; and B) we're debating the fictional universe our plastic toy soldiers inhabit.

I'm very happy to read everybody's views on the sculpts, indeed on the background. But can we please, for the love of the Emperor, stop repeating the same arguments for and against whether this is a departure from what was previously written and depicted. Both parties feel like they're right, so enjoy that feeling of being correct, you have made your cases well.

---------------------------------------------

As there are a fair few self-described veteran players here, can we turn back to the discussion of what could be added to the range? As mentioned before, it seems likely GW will extend the range, but probably not massively (given the resources poured into updating the range). Based on lore and playstyle, what are, say, the first two things you'd like and expect to see added in their roster?

I am really interested in seeing what new things they will add. I am sure they will save the previews of the new stuff for the last.

There are things I wish they would add, but I really can't guess what they will actually do, or indeed how much new stuff we will even be getting. I am certain that there will be some.

Previously the Sisters line has been super limited, and the most units have basically been the exact same power armour models arranged in different configurations. I hope they get a bit more adventurous, at minimum adding some new gear options. Personally I'd like to see more melee stuff. Close Combat versions of both Celestians and the Seraphim would be welcome. Some sort of a biker unit would be cool as well, I can imagine a bike festooned with all sorts of relics and other religious paraphernalia looking really amazing.

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:
Based on lore and playstyle, what are, say, the first two things you'd like and expect to see added in their roster?

Ideally, and within the scope of multi-kits for existing models?

Something mobile and durable like the DoW avenging angels (aka seraphim with swords/spears, as also seen on the cover of C:WH), and perhaps weapon options and an armoured sarcophagus for the penitent engines to allow for an entombed priest to lead them (aka chaplain dreadnoughts).

The holy trinity could be expanded without going too much against the fluff with crossbow weapons, from the purgatus/stake crossbow style basic and pistol weapons that already exist up to thundercoil sized vehicle/artillery crossbows. Similarly units like the death cultists could be expanded with sniper rifles and other melee weapons, same of the crusaders, and a build you own saint.
Then you have the various obscure but flavourful options available such as minor orders (i.e. representatives of the Pronatus) or priests on walking/floating thrones, ephrael stern (and many other named characters),, halcyon command rhinos, or even the old dominica-pattern pods.

Personally though i'm just hoping they remember to put a jump pack on the canoness/palatine.

A.T. wrote:

Personally though i'm just hoping they remember to put a jump pack on the canoness/palatine.

Oh dear Emperor, this! Also, I really hope we get rules for a Palatine or other such Lieutenant level leader. It is kinda crazy to have a bunch of Canonesses running around with one small army.

Id really like to see what they do with Celestians.
They're supposed to be the privileged elite with master crafted weapons and the such. Really hoping for a nicely blinged model for them. And fixed up rules.
I don't think Celestians with combat weapons is the way to go. Ever since crusaders got the sisters AoF rules etc, crusaders have just been combat Celestians by another name.
I think going all in on the bodyguard thing would be the way to give them a a.place. fix their body guard rule so it works properly. Something to let them ignore the bodyguard mortal wounds. Those two things alone would make me want to take them.

In regards to new things; I'm still thinking that we're going to see novitiates/novices. That was a name drop in the early days of the BSB and I reckon we'll see them show up eventually. In what way, I'm not sure; I don't like the idea of sisters using novices as chaff myself.

Personally, I would love to see some Imperial Cultists. I have always lived the idea of the them fighting alongside the actual troops of the Church.

 Giantwalkingchair wrote:
Id really like to see what they do with Celestians.
They're supposed to be the privileged elite with master crafted weapons and the such. Really hoping for a nicely blinged model for them. And fixed up rules.
I don't think Celestians with combat weapons is the way to go. Ever since crusaders got the sisters AoF rules etc, crusaders have just been combat Celestians by another name.
I think going all in on the bodyguard thing would be the way to give them a a.place. fix their body guard rule so it works properly. Something to let them ignore the bodyguard mortal wounds. Those two things alone would make me want to take them.

Fair points, I just think they would look cool with power swords. I really want Sister units that are not the same old bolter wielders. And if they're are bodyguard unit, I think there should be some flexibility in their gear. Boltguns for those guarding a shooty HQ, swords for those who go with a more choppy one.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
"Retroactive continuity," shortened to "retcon," is when the story is changed so otherwise inconsistent material is made consistent. Sometimes it can be a narrative excuse ("here's some information the reader didn't know: it makes sense now, and always did!"); sometimes it's less subtle and is an overt and can just be the author saying they're ignoring or changing a detail to fit their current version of the story.

Most common (and I think originated from?) superhero comics, where you've got sprawling universes and things start to contradict each other.

They're playing with the idea of redesigning the SoB/world details.

 Mmmpi wrote:
It combines the word RetCon, and Canoness.

Thanks!!

 Souleater wrote:
Personally, I would love to see some Imperial Cultists. I have always lived the idea of the them fighting alongside the actual troops of the Church.

They used to have that. Frateris Militia. I really want that too, though they need to avoid the same mistake they always do with the cheap chaff, i.e. making them too cheap and too good so there is little reason to take any other troops.

Having Ecclesiarchy units in the mix is a contentious issue, but personally that is something I really want. I want to be able to wield an eclectic crusade of Sisters, militia, flagellants and preachers on top of walking war altars. At the same time the SoB section should be comprehensive and strong enough that one could also easily field a pure Sisters force without feeling handicapped.

...Fix Celestians up, bring some new characters. i already brought up sisters on bikes or horses. maybe some new vehicles to the selection. Palatines are a yes. Noviates.. possibly?

Since theyve apparently merged the Ecclesiarchy into this, yes, Frateris Millita would be nice, but so much of THAT range needs an update, and id love to see what they do with that stuff.

 Crimson wrote:

A.T. wrote:

Personally though i'm just hoping they remember to put a jump pack on the canoness/palatine.

Oh dear Emperor, this! Also, I really hope we get rules for a Palatine or other such Lieutenant level leader. It is kinda crazy to have a bunch of Canonesses running around with one small army.

Yes please. My Canoness and Standard Bearer still have jump packs. Additionally, the Ephrael Stern model was used as my Palatine.

Celestians, Dominions, Seraphim — pretty much covers the usual specializations in a 40k faction. Instead of up-armoring to some kind of Terminator-type choice, Sisters (literally) lose their armor to create the Repentia choice. Five existing troop types is pretty solid IMO and it’s hard to see what really needs adding. I really hope there won’t be Sororitas Terminators ...

If Frateris Militia are added, it might come along witha retcon about Sisters having some kind of special responsibility for them.

I wonder if Sisters will get a unit with access to hurricane bolters and such. There's been a lot of new bolter patterns lately.

 Manchu wrote:
Five existing troop types is pretty solid IMO and it’s hard to see what really needs adding.

The current Sisters unit list is dreadfully limited, I find it kinda fascinating how you can't imagine anything being added to it.

The bases are covered.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
I've not seen very much enthusiasm either.

Maybe you haven't looked very hard? The people saying "I hate this" always drown out everyone else, because they have the most motivation to do so. Only so much you can do with saying either "I like this" or "I kinda like this". It's a similar problem restaurants face with customer review sites-- people often go and eat and enjoy then don't say anything, but if they get a bad experience they HAVE to tell someone.

Doesn't mean every customer has the negative experience, however.

I mean, what needs to be looked hard at? When I look at the discussion here, on FB, among folk I know, and I compare it to the discussion about the new Sisters generally and what we've seen of the power armoured units so far I see more "I hate this", orders of magnitude less "I love this", and a fair number of the people expressing non-negative sentiment fall into the "well, it's not that bad I suppose" category. This isn't the restaurant situation, because we have two directly comparable, directly linked sets of reactions to examine and compare, and the levels of positivity/negativity/apathy are clearly(to my eye anyway) different between them.

There was very little outright dislike for the regular Sisters; there's evidently substantially more for the Repentia. People were, broadly, hype for the regular Sisters people seem to be, broadly, unenthusiastically tolerant of the Repentia.

I'm looking forward to seeing what happens when a very very small but very very very vocal group of fans gets a very expensive new full range release and if noise turns into sales. Speaking as an old inquisition player whose army got sunk by the release of sisters last time I hope this time turns out differently but well who knows.

I would say that I hope the other specialist units are more interesting than the repentia tennis team.

 Manchu wrote:


If Frateris Militia are added, it might come along witha retcon about Sisters having some kind of special responsibility for them.

Just reprint the Codex entry from the 2nd Ed book. Job done!