Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Voss wrote:
Given the lack of images of seraphim/zephirym (other than the monokit from the army box), odds are pretty good those will be last. Maybe rets as well, thinking about it. Has there been any pic with a multimelta sister yet?I'd lean toward the first.

The only arco flagellants I've seen so far have also just been the ones from the recent box, so those also seem a likely candidate for a later wave. And the battle sanctum of course.

Don't mind the wait too much; it's not like I'll have the box contents fully painted before the proper releases hit, and by the time I'd be done with those the next wave is probably there. Would like to kitbash some of the various kits though, so I hope the second wave won't be too long after the first.

 Togusa wrote:
You cannot just will an entire product line into existence. I understand the frustration, but seriously, they've done a massive amount of goodwill with this project, interrupting their preexisting development schedule for the fans who stuck with it through the years. If I have to wait to get my hands on the entire line until Febuary, March or even May, I'm happy to do so.

We don't actually know that Sisters interrupted their schedule. Given the copyright date on the first concept work we were shown, either they dropped everything and began working on Sisters immediately after the Community Survey (which, frankly, seems unlikely), or they had started at least concept work before the Survey which apparently gave them the idea.

It would be strange to assume that GW would return to Genestealer Cults of all things, but have no idea that there was potential demand for Sisters of Battle. And they were already pushing more female models in various ranges by that point...

Crimson wrote:

Voss wrote:

features the repentia and rather than January, they say 'sometime next year.' I wouldn't be surprised if there was a second wave... later.

FFS, that would be massively annoying. A lot of people want to start a brand new Sister army and not being able to buy all models in January would make things difficult. Having this gap between the limited edition box and the actual release is already irksome enough.

I really want to have actually enough minis to make a 2k list with, if the rest of the release isnt till later on in the year, gak will impact fan.

In the meantime, I guess I can just ally them with my Metalica. not ideal but i guess doable.

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
You cannot just will an entire product line into existence. I understand the frustration, but seriously, they've done a massive amount of goodwill with this project, interrupting their preexisting development schedule for the fans who stuck with it through the years. If I have to wait to get my hands on the entire line until Febuary, March or even May, I'm happy to do so.

We don't actually know that Sisters interrupted their schedule. Given the copyright date on the first concept work we were shown, either they dropped everything and began working on Sisters immediately after the Community Survey (which, frankly, seems unlikely), or they had started at least concept work before the Survey which apparently gave them the idea.

It would be strange to assume that GW would return to Genestealer Cults of all things, but have no idea that there was potential demand for Sisters of Battle. And they were already pushing more female models in various ranges by that point...

I suppose that is true. It may have started with Rise of the Primarch and Rising Storm.

 Togusa wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
You cannot just will an entire product line into existence. I understand the frustration, but seriously, they've done a massive amount of goodwill with this project, interrupting their preexisting development schedule for the fans who stuck with it through the years. If I have to wait to get my hands on the entire line until Febuary, March or even May, I'm happy to do so.

We don't actually know that Sisters interrupted their schedule. Given the copyright date on the first concept work we were shown, either they dropped everything and began working on Sisters immediately after the Community Survey (which, frankly, seems unlikely), or they had started at least concept work before the Survey which apparently gave them the idea.

It would be strange to assume that GW would return to Genestealer Cults of all things, but have no idea that there was potential demand for Sisters of Battle. And they were already pushing more female models in various ranges by that point...

I suppose that is true. It may have started with Rise of the Primarch and Rising Storm.

If Celestine had been planned to be anything but a standalone any such concept work would have been made as part of her creation, not afterwards. Certainly not over a year afterwards.

Similarly, Celestine being released only in a box with an Inquisitor and a humongous Techpriest wouldn't have allowed GW to draw any conclusion which part of this box was popular with the people that bought it and would not have tipped them in favor of redoing Sisters.

No offense, but trying to spin this any other way than how GW said it happened is real conspiracy theory material.

As for taking another release's spot, I don't know if this has changed in the meantime but the production facts GW used to talk about back in the day were that an army/codex release took 18 to 24 months from inception to release and GW's concrete release plans spanned 24 months into the future. If this is still the case, and there's no reason to believe otherwise, GW may have had ideas how to proceed in the beginning of 2020 but nothing would have been carved in stone by the time they resolved to do Sisters. Sisters would have just been put at the very end of the concrete release plan.

Actually i'm certain GW will keep an eye on the secondary market and what split box set minis are going for

so by looking at what Celestine, the techpriest and inquisitor sold for they'd get an idea of releticve popularity

any they may (not certain how the kit was listed) also have got an idea from their website where kits can be bought under several tabs (eg sororitas/Mechanicus/Inquisition)

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Actually i'm certain GW will keep an eye on the secondary market and what split box set minis are going for

so by looking at what Celestine, the techpriest and inquisitor sold for they'd get an idea of releticve popularity

any they may (not certain how the kit was listed) also have got an idea from their website where kits can be bought under several tabs (eg sororitas/Mechanicus/Inquisition)

Well, I'm sure it helped that Celestine was basically a staple of every index-era meta list, Belligerent Carl was an auto-include but only in one army, and Coolhat McIhavenodistinguishingfeatures the inquisitor lady just...has no purpose or reason to exist and should just be a generic inquisitor with some weapon options.

I really, really, REALLY wish Gw's design studio was using these box set releases to justify giving armies more options rather than making them special bespoke named characters with no real reason to take them except when they goof up and give them some bonus over the generic version of the model for free.

"Hey, here's a chaos lord with a thunder hammer for this boxed game, now Chaos Lords have the option to take that wargear!"

"here's a bunch of new cultist stuff, here's new weapons that your cultists can take because they're in this kit!"

It wouldn't amaze or surprise me if GW has a lot of concepts waiting to see the light of day...maybe. Seems likely that designers might come up with stuff all the time that's not planned for any time soon, or is planned, and then doesn't fit into the release schedule, or is just stupid bonkers stuff that they doubt will ever see release.
It could be Sisters were in this pile. Either that or they did just get to work when they saw the overwhelming response to the community survey. I'm not complaining either way. They look good. And there's been a better number of female miniatures mixed in amongst other groups too. I'm not going to bother asking for better racial representation across miinis because honestly I'm just happy when we get somewhat decent looking, if all-Caucasian (pretty unlikely in the 41st millennium but whatever) face sculpts. I'll just continue to paint the skin tones a variety of shades.

I wonder if the 2 BSF Rogue Traders are a trial for a codex RT/Imperial Navy/Space Pirates?

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I wonder if the 2 BSF Rogue Traders are a trial for a codex RT/Imperial Navy/Space Pirates?

I really hope so!

 Geifer wrote:


If Celestine had been planned to be anything but a standalone any such concept work would have been made as part of her creation, not afterwards. Certainly not over a year afterwards.

Similarly, Celestine being released only in a box with an Inquisitor

...who also was a Sister of Battle at one time.

I think that GW is constantly thinking of things and lots of dead ends or abandoned stuff happens without us knowing. After GSC I’m sure there was lots of questions of what else could we resurrect. That Heroes of the Imperium box set can easily be seen as a backdoor poll for interest in Sisters, at least from the designers who allegedly wag the dog.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I wonder if the 2 BSF Rogue Traders are a trial for a codex RT/Imperial Navy/Space Pirates?

Little Column A, little Column B.

On the face of it, they’re a unique selling point for BSF and that Kill Team set. A chance for the designers to just have a little fun.

But, they’re also a toe in the water regardless of the original intent. And if they’ve proved as popular with others as they have me, that won’t go unnoticed.

 Chairman Aeon wrote:

 Geifer wrote:


If Celestine had been planned to be anything but a standalone any such concept work would have been made as part of her creation, not afterwards. Certainly not over a year afterwards.

Similarly, Celestine being released only in a box with an Inquisitor

...who also was a Sister of Battle at one time.

I think that GW is constantly thinking of things and lots of dead ends or abandoned stuff happens without us knowing. After GSC I’m sure there was lots of questions of what else could we resurrect. That Heroes of the Imperium box set can easily be seen as a backdoor poll for interest in Sisters, at least from the designers who allegedly wag the dog.

But the problem is as pointed out the Celestine didn't really give any real concrete data about how much SISTERS sold as it was sold in bundles. Did bundles sell because of celestine? Or cawl? Or greyfax?

Good luck figuring that one when all sold together.

tneva82 wrote:
But the problem is as pointed out the Celestine didn't really give any real concrete data about how much SISTERS sold as it was sold in bundles. Did bundles sell because of celestine? Or cawl? Or greyfax?

Good luck figuring that one when all sold together.

Good point. Too bad there was no way to know if anyone broke up the box and saw what sold the most or even if the models were ever sold individually to see which ones sold the most. I mean there is just no way of knowing.

 Crimson wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I wonder if the 2 BSF Rogue Traders are a trial for a codex RT/Imperial Navy/Space Pirates?

I really hope so!

I really hope not!

Another Imperial faction? Come on folks. The Imperial Navy? What would that even be?! An all flyer force? Just barrage after barrage of orbital artillery?

And Space Pirates? Wha....? What's cool at Pirate Faire is not cool on the table top.

 Chairman Aeon wrote:
...who also was a Sister of Battle at one time.

And that's supposed to make things better? Then it's not just three different models that may compete with each other, you can't even say why people buy Greyfax if she's the deciding factor.

Did people buy her because they like Inquisition? Because they like Sisters? Both? Did they buy her because the box advertises her as an Inquisitor? Did they buy her because they are familiar with the background material and like her as a former Sister?

None of that can be answered with sales data.

 Chairman Aeon wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
But the problem is as pointed out the Celestine didn't really give any real concrete data about how much SISTERS sold as it was sold in bundles. Did bundles sell because of celestine? Or cawl? Or greyfax?

Good luck figuring that one when all sold together.

Good point. Too bad there was no way to know if anyone broke up the box and saw what sold the most or even if the models were ever sold individually to see which ones sold the most. I mean there is just no way of knowing.

Feel free to be as sarcastic as you like, but there's reasonable doubt that monitoring third party sellers can provide GW with solid enough data to base their decisions on. It can give them an impression of how popular things may be, but it involves at least a measure of guesswork since GW is not privy to the motivations and numbers of each seller and it doesn't give any better an idea of the buyers' motivation either.

The more important point is that they have no first hand data of their own to compare and corroborate with. It's not just that they're supposed to base the decision to do a u-turn on their long-standing policy on Sisters on incomplete data, which you could argue is the case for any data, but they cannot even accurately tell where the faults and holes in that data may be because they're grabbing it off a public platform when they can, if they catch it, and with no insight whatsoever into the sellers' books.

On the other hand, GW did a community survey to ask people what they want. They flat out stated plastic Sisters are a result of that survey. There was enough of 2017 left after getting initial results of the survey for an artist to sketch some designs for the sketches to get a 2017 copyright. The release of Sisters falls exactly into the 18 to 24 month window for a new army project we know GW works with.

Isn't it enough for you that GW did the right thing in doing the survey and more importantly decided to then proceed and give people what they asked for? Do you really need GW to have the uncanny foresight to finally get around to making new Sisters models just in time to beat the survey that tells them there is enough demand?

Nobody's questioning that GW has changed their approach in recent years and that they are open to exploring things they flat out dismissed under earlier. Nobody's questioning that this shift in attitude is vital to accepting that people actually want Sisters.

 Geifer wrote:


Feel free to be as sarcastic as you like, but there's reasonable doubt that monitoring third party sellers can provide GW with solid enough data to base their decisions on. It can give them an impression of how popular things may be, but it involves at least a measure of guesswork since GW is not privy to the motivations and numbers of each seller and it doesn't give any better an idea of the buyers' motivation either.

Is lack of 3rd party listings(sales numbers GW has zero ways to get) because model is not popualar so nobody bothers to buy? Because they are so popular nobody has spares to sell? Does tons of listings mean there's huge demand or nobody is interested?

# of listing can be interpreted 2 ways. Without actual # SOLD nobody knows(which short of asking and somehow getting answer or hacking into system of 3rd party sellers GW has no real way to get in realistic way)

Not to mention if powerful character you can easily soup into others selling well doesn't tell does army itself sell well. Saint was basically plug and play soup addition for cheap price. Bit different than full army.

I'd not be suprised if we found out there was some inital design work (even if just sketches) for sisters done in advance, but the survey was what convinced the GW brass to give it the go ahead

BrianDavion wrote:
I'd not be suprised if we found out there was some inital design work (even if just sketches) for sisters done in advance, but the survey was what convinced the GW brass to give it the go ahead

this is reasonable. They had to do drafts/work ups for Celestine & Gemini so much of the groundwork was laid before. Since we know they work in CAD, taking the initial size, proportions, etc and fleshing out the rest would take little development time. Add in the 2ish years to that and....bam plastic Sororitas.

The biggest thing to take away from this is,
There
are
now
plastic
Sororitas
!

tneva82 wrote:
# of listing can be interpreted 2 ways. Without actual # SOLD nobody knows(which short of asking and somehow getting answer or hacking into system of 3rd party sellers GW has no real way to get in realistic way)

Anyone can check numbers sold on eBay. It's the "completed listings" checkbox. Not saying GW would bother to do that, but it isn't difficult.

 Chairman Aeon wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
But the problem is as pointed out the Celestine didn't really give any real concrete data about how much SISTERS sold as it was sold in bundles. Did bundles sell because of celestine? Or cawl? Or greyfax?

Good luck figuring that one when all sold together.

Good point. Too bad there was no way to know if anyone broke up the box and saw what sold the most or even if the models were ever sold individually to see which ones sold the most. I mean there is just no way of knowing.

Maybe that's exactly what happened?

2016: Wow, that triumvirate set sold really well. People must really like Cawl. Lets really push the mechanicus.

2018: Oooooooo. They were buying the girl thing. Maybe we should make more of those.

You know, GW actually could send out more polls to their email base. I would have NO issue answering a dozen questions or more concerning my hobbies, or even specific products. I know they had their HUGE POLL earlier this year, but too much information is never enough for businesses, and voluntary data is gold.

Granted, they would probably also get a TON of worthless data from people solely focused on their army and hating on the rest, but it should be relatively easy to tell.

Case in point: Why did I buy the Heroes Box? Because of Celestine.

Easy questions, easy data.

 Geifer wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
You cannot just will an entire product line into existence. I understand the frustration, but seriously, they've done a massive amount of goodwill with this project, interrupting their preexisting development schedule for the fans who stuck with it through the years. If I have to wait to get my hands on the entire line until Febuary, March or even May, I'm happy to do so.

We don't actually know that Sisters interrupted their schedule. Given the copyright date on the first concept work we were shown, either they dropped everything and began working on Sisters immediately after the Community Survey (which, frankly, seems unlikely), or they had started at least concept work before the Survey which apparently gave them the idea.

It would be strange to assume that GW would return to Genestealer Cults of all things, but have no idea that there was potential demand for Sisters of Battle. And they were already pushing more female models in various ranges by that point...

I suppose that is true. It may have started with Rise of the Primarch and Rising Storm.

If Celestine had been planned to be anything but a standalone any such concept work would have been made as part of her creation, not afterwards. Certainly not over a year afterwards.

Similarly, Celestine being released only in a box with an Inquisitor and a humongous Techpriest wouldn't have allowed GW to draw any conclusion which part of this box was popular with the people that bought it and would not have tipped them in favor of redoing Sisters.

No offense, but trying to spin this any other way than how GW said it happened is real conspiracy theory material.

As for taking another release's spot, I don't know if this has changed in the meantime but the production facts GW used to talk about back in the day were that an army/codex release took 18 to 24 months from inception to release and GW's concrete release plans spanned 24 months into the future. If this is still the case, and there's no reason to believe otherwise, GW may have had ideas how to proceed in the beginning of 2020 but nothing would have been carved in stone by the time they resolved to do Sisters. Sisters would have just been put at the very end of the concrete release plan.

All I am saying is they had a designed direction. I do not believe they didn't have all the artwork ready well before they made the announcement of the survey results. There is no way that they hadn't had any idea that Sisters were a thing. I'll never, ever buy that line.

 Sacredroach wrote:
You know, GW actually could send out more polls to their email base. I would have NO issue answering a dozen questions or more concerning my hobbies, or even specific products. I know they had their HUGE POLL earlier this year, but too much information is never enough for businesses, and voluntary data is gold.

Granted, they would probably also get a TON of worthless data from people solely focused on their army and hating on the rest, but it should be relatively easy to tell.

Case in point: Why did I buy the Heroes Box? Because of Celestine.

Easy questions, easy data.

One of the first things they teach you when learning how to take polls is how to parse the useless data, or at least extrapolate useful data from it. Even the kind of rants we see from posters like An Actual Englishmen could be useful. "Many Orc players are very passionate about their army, but not likely to branch off into others."

Ha! Good one!

But yes, lies and statistics and all that.

Plus market data.

I do look forward to the full kits on this line though...

 Geifer wrote:

As for taking another release's spot, I don't know if this has changed in the meantime but the production facts GW used to talk about back in the day were that an army/codex release took 18 to 24 months from inception to release and GW's concrete release plans spanned 24 months into the future. If this is still the case, and there's no reason to believe otherwise, GW may have had ideas how to proceed in the beginning of 2020 but nothing would have been carved in stone by the time they resolved to do Sisters. Sisters would have just been put at the very end of the concrete release plan.

From what I heard at a GW-shop, three times the normal amount of “starter” boxes were produced for the sisters (about 100k pcs).

The clerks at a shop don't know, they're not kept in the loop on manufacturing details.

For one thing, a starter box like this doesn't happen regularly, and certainly hasn't recently. So three times the 'normal amount' doesn't mean anything at all, because there isn't a 'normal' to compare it to.

It be like three times the normal amount of nuns showing up at my house.

 EnTyme wrote:

One of the first things they teach you when learning how to take polls is how to parse the useless data, or at least extrapolate useful data from it. Even the kind of rants we see from posters like An Actual Englishmen could be useful. "Many Orc players are very passionate about their army, but not likely to branch off into others."

It's not really a mystery why people like the Sisters. GW was like, people like Joan of Arc, so let's make an entire army out of Joan of Arcs, and that's way more than the six Joan of Arcs that Infinity has. Just on the number of Joan of Arcs alone, GW has everybody beat. Thus success. It's so obvious, you don't need market research. 6 Joan of Arcs = good. 60 Joan of Arcs = better.

 Sqorgar wrote:
6 Joan of Arcs = good. 60 Joan of Arcs = better.

Or is it 'Joans of Arc' like a Court Martial becomes many Courts Martial?

Any hoo.

I finally had the peace and quiet to put my figures together last night and am quite happy with the result.

Apart from the champions, I have opted for the helmets but with each of the standard Sisters/ Seraphim having helmet and bare head options, there is some variety to be had.

I covered this box set out of normal funds so I still have my splash fund for the early 2020 releases. That money goes to my FLGS seeing as they guaranteed me the box set. Good service receives rewards.

I also have my stripped metals ready to go as well. As a Valourous Heart painter with my original army, the metals may have to go as the Valourous offshoot Order just for some variety.

I went for mix heads. As I got 2 sets there's 4 of each poses for basic squads, 2 for smaller so loooooots of duplications. Ergo at least heads differ. Also both helmet heads look at opposite directions etc.

Too bad full kit looks to be fairly monopose as well :(