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... The one that was in Halt & Catch Fire, and my favorite episode of Black Mirror.

Clearly I love her so much I can't even get her name right.

Ya, I didn’t recognize the name at first so I googled it at work. It wasn’t safe, and Ms. Pierce spells her name a bit different, but she has a pretty extensive resume.

 nels1031 wrote:
Ya, I didn’t recognize the name at first so I googled it at work. It wasn’t safe, and Ms. Pierce spells her name a bit different, but she has a pretty extensive resume.

"Goodness, this is disgraceful! I just want to make sure how disgraceful it is exactly, I better keep looking"

No idea what's going on, but it's interesting. Mind you, I thought that about the last one (was that Genesis with the funny spelling?).

Not sure how it fits in with the timeline, but I don't really care; it wouldn't make any difference to the quality of the other films if they were all standalones anyway.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Not sure how it fits in with the timeline, but I don't really care; it wouldn't make any difference to the quality of the other films if they were all standalones anyway.

Basically everything after T2 has been wiped off the board. This is a direct sequel to T2, nothing else is considered canon.

Judgement Day is inevitable, but it can and has been forestalled - it seems though, that Terminator technology, whenever it inevitably comes about, will be slightly different depending on the route it takes to exist. Luna's terminator has a different naming structure and aesthetic to any of the others, and the fact he seems to have *more* limitations than the T1000 in some ways makes me think that he comes from around the same time, but at a less advanced point in Terminator "evolution" due to the time Sarah Connor has managed to buy.

So.... What's up with this terminator? Metal endoskeleton with polymemetic alloy skin, kind of like the T-X in Terminator 3. The difference being that the liquid metal can at least temporarily split off from the skeleton to do it's own thing? I wonder if this is actually 2 terminators acting together, or a networked single entity.

Guess we’ll have to watch the film to find out.

Either way, it’s at least a new form of Terminator to attempt to entertain us.

 cuda1179 wrote:
So.... What's up with this terminator? Metal endoskeleton with polymemetic alloy skin, kind of like the T-X in Terminator 3. The difference being that the liquid metal can at least temporarily split off from the skeleton to do it's own thing? I wonder if this is actually 2 terminators acting together, or a networked single entity.

I like the look of the terminator itself, even if I hate the sense that they feel duty bound to come up with new gimmicks for every one. The shot where the "skin" crawls off him onto the rebar was one of the few bits of cgi I liked, the way it moves reminds me of playing with iron filings and magnets as a kid.

Even though none of the sequels can touch the original( its the dog's bollocks! ) I'm always up for a new Terminator movie.

Bit tired of the constant rebooting and recasting, though. Did not appreciate The Sarah Connor Chronicles being "terminated" before it could wrap up with season 3. That was a good show.

As someone who actually enjoyed Genesys. I'm okay with a new film being the sequel to T2.

I echo others that the CGI needs a bit of work, and just hope that it's an artifact of being "just a trailer".

Film makers did say they were desperate to get the trailer out, so likely still some spit and polish to come.

But what excites me, and I accept I may be in a minority here.....so far as we can tell, there’s no spoilers in this trailer.

Even T2’s trailer gave away Arnie wasn’t the bad guy. And the others have just gone for broke on the ‘to be honest, we’re not really helping ourselves here, because THIS IS THE TWIST’.

I too am in the ‘enjoyed Genesys’ camp. Indeed, one can look to the earlier posts to see my breakdown of what’s to like about the other films (whilst not claiming they’re actually good). But imagine how it’s reception might’ve been had they not blown the ‘John Connor is a Terminator’ aspect.

I’d still love to see sequel media to that film. Give me comic books at least.

There's been a notable improvement in the CGI in different versions of the same trailer on the same day, so that's clearly a work in progress, I'm not too worried about it.

I found the music in the trailer to be a very poor choice, it doesn't feel terminator to me at all. No gravity to it. I'm not overly excited about this one unfortunately.

Why do they insist on using that gak music?

Use something like this, especially when Sarah steps out the car...

Casualty wrote:
There's been a notable improvement in the CGI in different versions of the same trailer on the same day, so that's clearly a work in progress, I'm not too worried about it.

If it's true that this is a work in progress, that is even more concerning. The idea that the first glimpse the world gets of your movie (via trailers that are now being shown in theaters - this trailer was before Godzilla KOTM) should be a half-baked, unfinished version, is insane.

The whole purpose of a movie trailer is to amaze your prospective audience and leave them wanting more, not have them shrug and say "looks terrible now, but maybe it will look better when it's finished". That's spending money to get negative value.

 Ouze wrote:

Casualty wrote:
There's been a notable improvement in the CGI in different versions of the same trailer on the same day, so that's clearly a work in progress, I'm not too worried about it.

If it's true that this is a work in progress, that is even more concerning. The idea that the first glimpse the world gets of your movie (via trailers that are now being shown in theaters - this trailer was before Godzilla KOTM) should be a half-baked, unfinished version, is insane.

The whole purpose of a movie trailer is to amaze your prospective audience and leave them wanting more, not have them shrug and say "looks terrible now, but maybe it will look better when it's finished". That's spending money to get negative value.

I think they were very anxious to get something out there because people were getting very antsy. It's not unusual for CGI to be still a WIP this late, and the CGI guys don't always know which scenes are going to be showcased in trailers. Crunch can only achieve so much in those circumstances. Interesting though that the far better received tv spot up above chops around the CGI stuff almost entirely.

I'm cautiously optimistic based on the test screening reactions, but tbh I'd watch Linda Hamilton or Mackenzie Davis put up wallpaper for 90 minutes, so I'm in regardless.

Casualty wrote:
I'm cautiously optimistic based on the test screening reactions, but tbh I'd watch Linda Hamilton or Mackenzie Davis put up wallpaper for 90 minutes, so I'm in regardless.

I do like both of them for sure, but after Genisys, paired with how poor the trailer looks, I don't think I can blindly commit to seeing it the way I previously would have for a Terminator movie.

I do hope it turns out to be good! I love the franchise, or at least, parts of it. I just don't see it pulling out of it's apparently never-ending tailspin.

Going through the movies the last few nights, and to be honest T3 and Salvation are good-but-silly movies in their own right.

I find T2 - while obviously being a landmark film for its cgi - to be about the same as Future World or Jaws 2. Missing something from the original yet still a much welcome encore with an all-round effort from the cast and crew, while managing to streamline the special effects. The first film stands tall alongside other 80s sc-fi horror movies such as The Howling, The Fly etc, .but T2 feels more like a teenagers kind of movie.

One thing that did bother me with the sequels is that the Terminator was made in batches, using the same appearance. The first film was more realistic in that they used another body builder to play a Terminator in the future scene towards the end of the movie, indicating the cruel intelligence of Skynet. T2 didn't bother me as much until they outright said it was "the same guy", because until that point I'd accepted that Arnold looked different enough in the second movie to know that he was playing a different Terminator.

Because its essentially a remake of T2, I like T3 almost as much as that movie. It doesn't quite have the directing clout of Cameron, nor the music of Brad Fidel, but I like the TX where it not only combined the first two villians but could also control other machines. It also helped that they went with a female actor for a change. She was rather sexy in that officer uniform near the end of the movie! Only thing that lets the film down is Arnold's almost forced performance. I can't explain it but its there. People go on about the sunglasses moment, but honestly, I remember everyone laughing at the time. Nick Stahl and Clair Danes were good too. Story was being stretched far beyond it should have been, but it was a decent film.

Salvation...it was good. Only bit that was a bit hard to believe was the heart transplant at the end. Very silly indeed. The Arnold terminator was very well done for 2009. Little touches such as how it jumped down of a ledge still carried the grace of a professional body builder and athlete. Bale and Bryce are solid actors and played it professionally, but I think we needed Stahl and Danes back to make it legit. Ed Furlong was obviously needed for these two movies, but well...I was okay with Stahl and ready to move on...

I'll be watching Genisys tomorrow night(since I saw it in the cinema) but whilst I enjoyed it...the change of actors - once again - felt wrong. Especially when they retread the scenes from the first film. The chap playing John was the best John so far. The bird from GOT was a decent Sarah( looked very much like Linda Hamilton back in the early 80s ) but Jay as Kyle was a miscasting. I enjoyed his performance, but he was way too tall and muscular for the more "bruce lee" look of Micheal's Kyle. The time travel element is what eventually brings it down, but it was nice to revisit the first movie while the JC-Terminator was pretty good.

This one...I like Halt & Catch Fire and think Mackenzie Davis is a good actor. Shes comfortable with naked scenes while I reckon she can do with a more stronger role. I like that swing she takes with the hammer! I do not appreciate the "its a true sequel to T2" because its only mucking the fans about more than they should have been. The last three sequels do at least link up in events( the nuclear fallout, surviving the future and finally the defeat of Skynet and sending Kyle back to the past ) and if this one just removes all that from canon then...it would have to do something groundbreaking for us to overlook that. I will go and see it but my hopes are not up. Avatar was quite disappointing, so I'm wondering how this is going to special in any way.

But who knows, Dark Fate could blow us all away?

She's a very interesting actor. Her roles are all very different but I'm fascinated how she keeps getting cast in very 80s or 80s inspired roles regardless of genre.

She's got a real Daryl Hannah/Mary Stuart Masterson thing going on, but you'd struggle to recognise her in one role vs the next, I keep seeing people being surprised that oh, that's the Black Mirror/Blade Runner/Martian actress swinging that sledgehammer.

Salvation never really clicked for me; it seemed like it was made on the back of a wave of "wouldn't a whole movie of the future war scenes from the first two films be great!", and no, it wasn't. The problem is that like The Matrix, the motivation of the evil computer don't make much sense when you dig into them.

Genisys was OK, and the trailer didn't spoil it for me (I misinterpreted it completely, so it was a surprise in the film).

With all the sequels and the TV series, I can't help thinking that the reason Skynet was defeated in 2029 was that all its Terminators were sent back in time and weren't there to fight humans in the future.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Salvation never really clicked for me; it seemed like it was made on the back of a wave of "wouldn't a whole movie of the future war scenes from the first two films be great!", and no, it wasn't. The problem is that like The Matrix, the motivation of the evil computer don't make much sense when you dig into them.

Yeah, the future war stuff... Glimpses of it are cool, but the premise of the whole thing breaks down over any extended time. I can see why people think it would be a great idea to spend a movie on, I just don't think it could ever work to do so. I mean there are 40k games with more narrative structural integrity lol.

The focus on Connor himself (as an adult) always struck me as a similar issue, I don't think you can actually put that character on screen for any real amount of time and have him live up to the version of him everybody is fighting over.

I also feel the Future War is just, well, known.

We know we get our tails kicked for most of it. Hopelessly outgunned, hideously outnumbered.

Connor's assault was a last roll of the dice that paid off in the end.

The bit we saw in Genisys? That's pretty much all we can realistically expect to work as a Future War film.

Also, it was the style of it in the first two - chrome skeletons reflecting the fire and explosions on their bodies, the plasma bolts and spotlights piercing the night, and the carpet of rubble and skulls, that made those scenes. Cut to salvation and it's all rusty vehicles in the California sun.

Both sides went for a last-minute desperate play - the humans' assault on Skynet's location, and Skynet's last-minute dispatch of the original T-800 as Connor's troops were kicking in the front doors (and IIRC the novelisation of T2 made the sending of the T-1000 even more of a gamble, as that was done with milliseconds to spare, and reluctantly as Skynet was afraid of what a T-1000 off the leash would do - with good reasons, if Shirley Manson's actions in TSCC season 2 are anything to go by).

The only interesting Future War stuff they did for me was the very brief glimpse of it in TSCC where it seems John is trying to forge an alliance with some sort of splinter group of Terminators, implying that maybe Skynet wasn't quite so all-powerful and in-control as humans thought. It felt like there was some mileage in that, along with the idea of some sort of anti-Skynet Terminator faction working to combat Skynet in the present.

The Future War scenes form the first two movies were cool, but precisely because they were short and visceral. As Salvation showed, an entire movie set in the same period didn't quite have the same feel to it. I think some of that comes down to it being difficult to take seriously when humanity's apparently on the edge of collapse but we've got people joyriding in Jeeps, sorties in A-10s and nuclear submarines as your command centre. It just didn't match the feel of how it was portrayed in the original movies.

As much as I enjoyed Salvation, I can't help feeling that, from a story perspective, you can 100% skip it. You can't say that about T3, as ...regrettable as that movie was (still enjoyed it, but man it was cheesy)

But you really can go straight from T3 to Genysis and still form a cohesive story.
T1 - Sarah Connor is saved for the Terminator by Kyle Reese (well, she kinda saved herself, but you know what I meant) and conceives John Connor
T2 - Good Termie comes back to save kid John Connor from Bad@$$ Liquid Termie. Sarah, John and Arnie "stop" Judgement day
T3 - Just kidding, Judgement day happens. Good Termie ensures John and future wife are saved from the Apocalypse. Bad gal Termie thrown in for eye candy
Genysis - The "loop" is complete as we see adult John send back Kyle Reese. Twist ending - Termies "infect/corrupt" John and make him a Termie. Kyle and alternate Sarah go through the events of T1 & T2 combined, but different this time around.

No matter how you feel about T3 & Genysis, at least they complete the narrative. Salvation contributes NOTHING to that storyline, aside from John meeting Kyle for the first time, awesome young Arnie effects and seeing how John got his face scar. Cool things for sure, but not needed

-

 Galef wrote:


No matter how you feel about T3 & Genysis, at least they complete the narrative. Salvation contributes NOTHING to that storyline, aside from John meeting Kyle for the first time, awesome young Arnie effects and seeing how John got his face scar. Cool things for sure, but not needed

-

"I'll be back...oh, and hold my beer!"

Actually, it does contribute the event of John transending the role of a mere spiritual speaker( he has the hearts of the people ) and into a military leader, commanding fanatical loyalty as he was destined to be. At the end of Terminator 3 hes merely the right voice in the right place at the right time( unlike another unlucky fellow we all know and love ) and would naturally not impress those military-inclined amongst the survivors...he needs real training and to earn his place amongst a real team of soldiers!



There is also a similarity to The Empire Strikes Back in which we find luke has become a proper soldier and trying to cope with that harsh reality, and in Salvation John is likewise. Both are now without the guidence of their mentor( Obi-Wan and Sarah ) save for a ghost and some audio recordings. In both films, they endure physical wounds in an attempt to save those dearest and important to them. In both cases...their unlikely fathers are now revealled to them in person. Physically and mentally, they are changed men with their true heritage out in the open, with hope for the future. In Empire Luke looks towards saving Han and defeating the empire, in Salvation John will plan for his father to travel into the past and defeat Skynet.

John gets the better deal though, because hes got his wife pregnant instead of snogging his sister!

I mean he also has to deal with the fact that the fate of the human future rests on him getting his mom laid, so it's not all sunshine.

SamusDrake wrote:

Spoiler:

 Galef wrote:


No matter how you feel about T3 & Genysis, at least they complete the narrative. Salvation contributes NOTHING to that storyline, aside from John meeting Kyle for the first time, awesome young Arnie effects and seeing how John got his face scar. Cool things for sure, but not needed

-

"I'll be back...oh, and hold my beer!"

Actually, it does contribute the event of John transending the role of a mere spiritual speaker( he has the hearts of the people ) and into a military leader, commanding fanatical loyalty as he was destined to be. At the end of Terminator 3 hes merely the right voice in the right place at the right time( unlike another unlucky fellow we all know and love ) and would naturally not impress those military-inclined amongst the survivors...he needs real training and to earn his place amongst a real team of soldiers!

[spoiler]

There is also a similarity to The Empire Strikes Back in which we find luke has become a proper soldier and trying to cope with that harsh reality, and in Salvation John is likewise. Both are now without the guidence of their mentor( Obi-Wan and Sarah ) save for a ghost and some audio recordings. In both films, they endure physical wounds in an attempt to save those dearest and important to them. In both cases...their unlikely fathers are now revealled to them in person. Physically and mentally, they are changed men with their true heritage out in the open, with hope for the future. In Empire Luke looks towards saving Han and defeating the empire, in Salvation John will plan for his father to travel into the past and defeat Skynet.

John gets the better deal though, because hes got his wife pregnant instead of snogging his sister! [/spoiler]

I can't believe you successfully compared Salvation to ESB. Well done.

But I will counter your "transending the role of mere spiritual leader" point by saying that the movie itself set up that role in the first place. The previous movies never eluded to John having any issues with this. It makes sense and adds depth to the story, sure, but it wasn't a question anyone was asking before that movie.

If we take everything we know about future John from T1,2 & 3 and skip right to Genysis, the audience has all it needs to know about John. To keep with the Star Wars analogy, Salvation is also a bit like Rogue One in that the story is cool and fun to watch and shows a side to the good guys that we haven't seen, but at the end of the day, it's all superfluous info. We KNOW the rebels got the DS plans. We KNOW John Connor becomes one of the greatest leaders against the machines. Answering HOW those things went down is less relevant to furthering the overall story.

-

I'd say Salvation is more Solo than Rogue One. Not comparing quality, just story content.

Rogue One added to the original Trilogy quite nicely. Solo is a cracking film, but just didn't really add much to the setting - it is ultimately 'disposable'. You just don't need to watch it to enjoy the rest of the films.