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 Ketara wrote:
I just can't think of what I'd use it for. Sorry.

Basing for around Titans . Heretic technology being stomped on.

 Theophony wrote:
In my opinion I felt the price of the Stug was great, possibly a little low.

Maybe for yourself, but it was also way too high for me to be interested in going in for a model with no actual or easily-proxied use. I like Mark/DFG, but I don't count game companies or KS as a "charity".

I'll take another look this time, but I honestly haven't done a damn thing with anything from the first KS yet (no, I'm not selling any of it), I've mostly sworn off KS, and these days especially I much prefer to make purchases that are readily available without extra unknown shipping costs to be paid at some point in the future for items that will probably be months to years late. The price break needs to be significant to offset any of that kind of bs these days, and it needs to be something I really want rather than something that simply looks like it might be cool to own. So while I wish Mark the best for the project and genuinely hope it funds, the best I can promise is that I'll take a look.

 Azazelx wrote:

 Theophony wrote:
In my opinion I felt the price of the Stug was great, possibly a little low.

Maybe for yourself, but it was also way too high for me to be interested in going in for a model with no actual or easily-proxied use. I like Mark/DFG, but I don't count game companies or KS as a "charity".

I'll take another look this time, but I honestly haven't done a damn thing with anything from the first KS yet (no, I'm not selling any of it), I've mostly sworn off KS, and these days especially I much prefer to make purchases that are readily available without extra unknown shipping costs to be paid at some point in the future for items that will probably be months to years late. The price break needs to be significant to offset any of that kind of bs these days, and it needs to be something I really want rather than something that simply looks like it might be cool to own. So while I wish Mark the best for the project and genuinely hope it funds, the best I can promise is that I'll take a look.

Thank you for looking... that's all anyone can ask.

This is a pretty clean Kickstarter, one kit, digital terrain files for those that want them... I have been down the road of multi kit offerings, I know where it leads and have no desire to go there again.

I asked for feedback from my backers when the first launch failed. Many wanted a more sexy campaign, stretch goals, etc. I get it... I really do, they want to feel excitement. People love to push for the goals and be entertained its quite natural. And I love hearing what they want... As always, I work in a bubble and KS allows for a lot of perspectives that I otherwise do not hear.

That KS format has some very predicable outcomes and its why you see so much KS hate these days. My last plastics venture was 3 years late... WGF did a fantastic job on delivering quality but I lost a lot of good will and the stress on me and the manufacturer is not worth the return.
I am doing my best to avoid all that with 'KISS' campaigns that are focused on the real reason I am there... to make 'A' kit become reality, to allow it to fund or fail on its own merits.... Not sexy, but there it is.

 Azazelx wrote:
Maybe for yourself, but it was also way too high for me to be interested in going in for a model with no actual or easily-proxied use.

That's been my problem as well. I went in for the very original metal versions of the troops just for gaks and giggles, but never bothered with the plastic KS because they were just too out of scale to be useful for anything. The tank is pretty, and I would love to buy a whole bunch of them, but I just don't know what I would do with them. As I said above, if it had a turret, that would be a whole different kettle of stuff. Size-wise, at least, it's much more functional than the DF troops were.



Although... maybe I could just remove the main weapon entirely and turn it into a transport vehicle. Hmm...

IMO, the 1st KS had too much stuff in it, trying to be all things to all people, but not quite getting the volume for things to really take off.

The follow-on KS is correctly sized, but I'm not sure that there's $60k worth of spend for 2.000 kits.

I really wish I could afford to back more.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
IMO, the 1st KS had too much stuff in it, trying to be all things to all people, but not quite getting the volume for things to really take off.

but I'm not sure that there's $60k worth of spend for 2.000 kits.

Neither am I I can guess.. But without testing it I will not know for certain. The kit was designed while I was still with WGF and the tooling costs were not a large consideration. If I came at this today, with a fresh eye, I may take a closer look at proxy use.
There are those who will grab this just because its StuG like, or they only build kits and could care less about the game aspects. There are those who would only pick one up if its a no-brainer drop in, and those who do competitive gaming that would never pick up a proxy regardless.

What does that equate to in actual numbers? I have no real idea... This is one way for me to find out. I love this kit, I have no desire to use it as a sacrificial offering for knowledge, but in some ways that's what I have to do.

 NoseGoblin wrote:

Thank you for looking... that's all anyone can ask.

This is a pretty clean Kickstarter, one kit, digital terrain files for those that want them... I have been down the road of multi kit offerings, I know where it leads and have no desire to go there again.

I asked for feedback from my backers when the first launch failed. Many wanted a more sexy campaign, stretch goals, etc. I get it... I really do, they want to feel excitement. People love to push for the goals and be entertained its quite natural. And I love hearing what they want... As always, I work in a bubble and KS allows for a lot of perspectives that I otherwise do not hear.

That KS format has some very predicable outcomes and its why you see so much KS hate these days. My last plastics venture was 3 years late... WGF did a fantastic job on delivering quality but I lost a lot of good will and the stress on me and the manufacturer is not worth the return.
I am doing my best to avoid all that with 'KISS' campaigns that are focused on the real reason I am there... to make 'A' kit become reality, to allow it to fund or fail on its own merits.... Not sexy, but there it is.

I'm fine with simple and straightforward. From smaller creators I actually prefer them because scope creep torpedoes them almost every time I see it. Not everything needs to be a "sexy" CMON or Mantic campaign loaded with "fake stretch goals" (remember those arguments?) by any means.

As far as delivery times go, Please don't take it personally, but I expect every KS to deliver late - including this one. I wouldn't expect it to ship this time of CNY because it's happened SO many times with a "no really, ours is different and will be on time" that at a certain point, well, you don't believe it anymore. It's actually that KS campaigns in general have lost that goodwill. I know you're all individuals/individual companies and not an amorphous mass - buuuut... it's a song we've heard so many times before that I only have one reaction to, regardless of who the singer is.

 NoseGoblin wrote:


Thank you for looking... that's all anyone can ask.

This is a pretty clean Kickstarter, one kit, digital terrain files for those that want them... I have been down the road of multi kit offerings, I know where it leads and have no desire to go there again.

I asked for feedback from my backers when the first launch failed. Many wanted a more sexy campaign, stretch goals, etc. I get it... I really do, they want to feel excitement. People love to push for the goals and be entertained its quite natural. And I love hearing what they want... As always, I work in a bubble and KS allows for a lot of perspectives that I otherwise do not hear.

That KS format has some very predicable outcomes and its why you see so much KS hate these days. My last plastics venture was 3 years late... WGF did a fantastic job on delivering quality but I lost a lot of good will and the stress on me and the manufacturer is not worth the return.
I am doing my best to avoid all that with 'KISS' campaigns that are focused on the real reason I am there... to make 'A' kit become reality, to allow it to fund or fail on its own merits.... Not sexy, but there it is.

You lost good will? I've only seen more goodwill for you and Dreamforge. After GW, Dreamforge is the first name that comes up in any discussion of quality plastics. The plastics from the last campaign are amazing, well worth the wait. I know I will enjoy assembling the Stug.

However, I'm a bit surprised you went with the stug and not the shadokesh for your return to KS. I would have thought there would be a lot of demand for a versatile alien kit with your high quality.

My dilemma for this campaign is that I really only want one stug, but at the lower price that would give less support to your campaign. Two is just a bit out of my budget for now, and adding more during the pledge manager won't help you fund.

When I did that survey back in September, the tank was favored by 20% in the question would you pick up a kit if it were in a Kickstarter.

Having the Eisenkern out and widely distributed and the response from that survey set the decision to go with the StuG first.

 insaniak wrote:
I feel like a turreted version would do better, as that would make it a reasonable stand in for a Predator or Leman Russ.

Would it? There is very little space to put side bolters/lascannons. I feel as it is it's more useful, seeing both SM and IG have lots of turretless designs this can reasonably count as. On SM side alone, you have Vindicator, Sabre Tank Hunter, Laser Destroyer and several others, and that's without removing the gun and putting Whirlwind or Stalker turret on top. None of these have sponson issue and you need just a few parts for the conversion...

I must admit I would also find more use for this with a turret, but honestly I would settle for a blanking plate on the sprue to cover up where the main gun protrudes from the hull - I'm sure I can source a turret of my own somewhere.

Size-wise, the Grav-StuG is a very close match for a Leman Russ Thunderer / Destroyer, though I wouldn't be surprised if it also matched some of the larger Landspeeder variants.

A turretted Grav-Panzer would be a natural stretch goal, maybe an additional $10-15k? But first, the basic kit needs to fund!

I looking at this for K47 units

 Irbis wrote:
Would it? There is very little space to put side bolters/lascannons.

The intakes on the sides could easily have a weapon mounted onto the front of them for simple sponsons. Otherwise, since the actual placement of the weapons on the vehicle is irrelevant in the current rules, they could just go on the turret as coaxial weapons.

Even easier as a Russ stand-in, if they still have the option to not take sponsons (I have to admit I'm not 100% sure on that, as I haven't seen the latest incarnation of the Astra Imperialguardium codex).

On SM side alone, you have Vindicator, Sabre Tank Hunter, Laser Destroyer and several others,...

One of which, some people occasionally use...

A Predator/Leman Russ stand-in is going to have a much wider appeal than a stand-in for a bunch of tanks most people don't even know exist.

What’s the dimensions of the fliers, storm talon and land speeders? Could work for those.

My main problem, this time around, is that it is too danged short a run.

I know that a two week run looks sexy on the outside - in reality... for me it means 'No Go' - which is a danged shame.

I was only in for a single model the first time around, and this time I will be in for zero models - because of the two week limit.

Sorry - the model looks great, but you killed it with an arbitrary two week run.

*EDIT* Please don't take this as an attack - the model is wonderful, and your previous models have been stellar - it is purely the fact that you are running such a short campaign that is killing it for me. I just won't have the funds in that time. (And, yes, it may be making me a tad bitter.) I really hope that you pull this off.

The Auld Grump - having family means needing to plan things out ahead of time - short notice plus short campaign... not a good combo.

I hear you, timing will always be an issue... It was up for 22 days, now another 15 and it was teased as coming to kickstarter since last year.

I know.. that does not help you in the current situation but its been around for a bit and honestly I need to put it to bed one way or another to get to a backlog of work in the queue.

Having said all that, if it funds, shoot me an email on my website. I will be running an additional very small run and I'm sure I can make a few more for late comers or those with timing issues... but, it has to fund first.

I am afraid that you shot yourself in both feet before starting this race.

It is a gorgeous model - and if I had the money, I would buy two - just so I could crash one of them. Those skid plates just cry out for the model to be digging a ditch across the top of a hill. (This is a compliment - the model looks like it will be fun to build, and I really like those skid plates. Some of my favorite WWII tank images are of the crew surrounding the smoking hulk of a once proud war machine.)

If you had announced a couple of weeks before the relaunch, it might have worked. But the combo... not good.

If you make the goal, I will likely take you up on the offer - and I really hope that you make it.

It was easier with your Leviathans - I could justify one for steampunk....

The Auld Grump

No worries, the reason for the quick turn around on the relaunch is that I had already spent what I could spend on my marketing budget, I needed to turn this fast enough so that investment was not wasted, so that the eyes on the project were still there.

There are those who have been in a similar situation to yourself... fun money is budgeted and if I wait too long, the interest wains and the freed up cash within peoples budgets gets consumed on more pressing things. KS is mercurial, I have no idea if CMON or Bones 5 will launch while I wait... soooooo It may not have been the right decision but it was the best one, to my eyes, given what I know.

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
I am afraid that you shot yourself in both feet before starting this race.

It is a gorgeous model - and if I had the money, I would buy two - just so I could crash one of them. Those skid plates just cry out for the model to be digging a ditch across the top of a hill. (This is a compliment - the model looks like it will be fun to build, and I really like those skid plates. Some of my favorite WWII tank images are of the crew surrounding the smoking hulk of a once proud war machine.)

If you had announced a couple of weeks before the relaunch, it might have worked. But the combo... not good.

If you make the goal, I will likely take you up on the offer - and I really hope that you make it.

It was easier with your Leviathans - I could justify one for steampunk....

The Auld Grump

He's been previewing the Grav Stug for what...a year now? And specifically a kickstarter for months. Since late last year. Ran the first campaign and now another 2 weeks.


Just how much of a heads up do you need exactly ?

I so, so want this to fund.

These are the White Scars tanks I've been dreaming of my whole life, and I went in for three. Here's to a successful blitz to the finish!

 HisDivineShadow wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
I am afraid that you shot yourself in both feet before starting this race.

It is a gorgeous model - and if I had the money, I would buy two - just so I could crash one of them. Those skid plates just cry out for the model to be digging a ditch across the top of a hill. (This is a compliment - the model looks like it will be fun to build, and I really like those skid plates. Some of my favorite WWII tank images are of the crew surrounding the smoking hulk of a once proud war machine.)

If you had announced a couple of weeks before the relaunch, it might have worked. But the combo... not good.

If you make the goal, I will likely take you up on the offer - and I really hope that you make it.

It was easier with your Leviathans - I could justify one for steampunk....

The Auld Grump

He's been previewing the Grav Stug for what...a year now? And specifically a kickstarter for months. Since late last year. Ran the first campaign and now another 2 weeks.


Just how much of a heads up do you need exactly ?

More than two weeks, that is for damned sure.

When it failed to fund the first time many people, myself included, then reallocated the funds to other things - things that are not this project.

It was not a matter of 'Oh! I can put the money into this second attempt!' it was - 'Well, I'm out. Too bad this won't fund, I already spent my money elsewhere.'

There probably needed to be about a month between when the previous attempt ended and when this one began - then let it run for two weeks.

I honestly think that this compromise was worse than not attempting at all.

As is... it is crashing and burning, and I am not happy about it, in part because I believe that it was avoidable in this second attempt - if there had been notice.

Now, I see the amount dropping as folks give up on this funding.

Which is a damned shame.

The Auld Grump

I also reallocated funds after the first one. Was the second try announced before the first one ended?

You've got some coverage on this week's beasts of war episode. Nice! I'll be watching it tonight.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I also reallocated funds after the first one. Was the second try announced before the first one ended?

Yes, but not explicit on the timing. The backer-only update sent out shortly before the end of the first attempt, requesting feedback on whether to relaunch at a lower per-unit price or as a resin kit did say "If this campaign does not fund, I need to be heading that direction as soon as I possibly can."

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I also reallocated funds after the first one. Was the second try announced before the first one ended?

Yes, but not explicit on the timing. The backer-only update sent out shortly before the end of the first attempt, requesting feedback on whether to relaunch at a lower per-unit price or as a resin kit did say "If this campaign does not fund, I need to be heading that direction as soon as I possibly can."

Unfortunately being backer only meant fence sitters and 48hour warning people didn’t get the memo.

Even if this doesn't fund, that is still very valuable information for Dreamforge. If the market isn't there, the market isn't there, and that is very valuable to know at this point before the big money is spent. Mark can still create the resin version, so time spent on the files won't be a loss.

Update #2 Apr 27 2019

Seven days left and we are 60% funded

Posted by Mark Mondragon (Creator)

We have reached the half way point in this campaign. I will be posting one last reminder in the last campaigns updates just to make sure we catch any who were not aware that we relaunched. If you were a backer of the prior campaign and you get a message in your inbox that seemed off… That might be why


We had some great coverage by Brueckenkopf and Beasts of War… Hats off to them for the help!

Paolo Parente of DUST, has been a huge help. Posting on his personal page and in his official forum. Thank you, sir… I love your work!

BOLS, TTGN, Tabletop Fix as well as the very talented Mr. David Woods and all of you! Who I have seen posting, forwarding links, re-posting, and promoting the campaign.

Truly, I am humbled by the support you have given. No really, I mean that. Your energy, persistence and willingness to put yourselves out there in your comments, suggestions and actions, keeps me motivated and pressing forward.

THANK YOU!

Hopefully the BoW shout out will bring in some more folk over the next week as they watch the weekender

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I also reallocated funds after the first one. Was the second try announced before the first one ended?

Yes, but not explicit on the timing. The backer-only update sent out shortly before the end of the first attempt, requesting feedback on whether to relaunch at a lower per-unit price or as a resin kit did say "If this campaign does not fund, I need to be heading that direction as soon as I possibly can."

I was a backer, and I never saw the notice - whether because it went to the Spam folder or it was never received is anybody's guess.

I have it on Remind Me - and if it looks close I will back at the last minute, if I can.
(Pretty big IF . Not happy with the lack of notice, not even a little bit.)

The Auld Grump

 Gallahad wrote:
Even if this doesn't fund, that is still very valuable information for Dreamforge. If the market isn't there, the market isn't there, and that is very valuable to know at this point before the big money is spent. Mark can still create the resin version, so time spent on the files won't be a loss.

I REALLY hope this doesn't fail, because while I love Mark's designs, I especially love the high quality sprue plastics he's made. I want to/will purchase a plastic tank, but have ZERO interest in resin. ZERO.