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 CptJake wrote:

 Vulcan wrote:
Given that many people drive enormous gas-hog off-road trucks and SUV's as their commuter car... I'd say what they want is rarely what they actually need.

My F350 diesel dual rear wheel long bed crew cab 4wd is a need not a want. I have horses (and other animals). They need to be trailered to go riding. I need to pick up large numbers of hay bales and get them home. With my flat trailer I can haul about 120 bales in one go. It also hauls a pallet of metal t-posts or a pallet of bags of quickcrete in the bed. Tows dozens of 6 inch by 8ft treated fence posts and several rolls of no-climb fence. And other stuff. I'm often on dirt or no roads on my property to drop off materials for a project or when getting to where we'll be riding.

It will be a while before an electric truck can replace what I use my truck for.


And I have an Audi Q7 (also diesel) as my 'go to work' vehicle when not on my bike. It hauls 10-12 50-pound bags of feed in the back so I don't use the less fuel economic truck just to get feed. It gets decent milage for my daily commute, but frankly is used for much more than that (such as picking up feed).

Judging what people 'need' vice 'want' with out knowing what they actually need is a bit silly.

There are many people that need SUVs sure....the vast majority dont. Many people drive SUVs because their ego cant handle a minivan. The new Chrysler pacifica hybrid is awesome though.

 Andrew1975 wrote:

jouso wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:

Well, this is not the case in most of the US. Trying to find a charger for other cars is pretty difficult. Im not sure which EVs your driving, most of them feel like runners up to me. Nissan Leaf, Chevy bolt, that BMW......they all pail in comparison. Right now Tesla has the performance, battery and charging edge on everybody.

Performance is something I don't expect of an electric car. Electric cars are supposed to be saving the planet, not hurl yourself fast, and in any case performance in many ways is a compromise wrt to reliability. I'm pretty sure Tesla dismal reliability comes from trying to push the performance/range envelope too hard.

Range yes, though I'm not sure Tesla has any advantage there. Battery size to range for, say, the Kona or Leaf compared to the M3 give pretty similar results.

Charging edge, if you're talking about the supercharger network that's true of the US. Certainly not here. And the traditional performance brands are clearly prioritising charging speeds over range (which is also a compromise, you take one at the expense of the other), the eTron, Taycan, etc. will charge faster than a Tesla but will trade that for smaller range all other things being equal.

Software and gimmicks. As said before, Tesla is incredibly buggy and glitchy. It really feels you're betatesting which I assume is ok with some people but I would definitely feel robbed if I spent 60K+ on a car which doesn't really work out of the can.

The most important thing for a daily driver is that it works. From what I've seen, Tesla isn't there yet.

Maybe to you electric cars should be econo boxes....but the masses don't want that. Sales figures show it. If you want to replace ICE cars you have to offer something better. Reliability issues with Teslas are so overblown its ridiculous.

Tell that to my neighbor. That model S has almost spent as much time in service than on the road, and we're talking drive units, not a bumper repaint.

And that's compounded by Tesla absolute lack of a service infrastructure. Again, 4 technicians for a 40 million country. The wait for a mobile service in Spain is measured in months, and if the car can't get to Madrid on its own you depend on your insurance to have it transported there, which means some insurance companies are raising their premiums or refusing to insure them altogether. Tesla used to be a small close-knit community but their WhatsApp groups are fuming right now.

52% of Tesla's in the UK have spent over 3 weeks in service last year. How much of that is reliability and how much is poor planning and infrastructure i won't go into that but the truth is that if you want is a car that runs, look elsewhere.

No other brand has that kind of issues, for whatever reason. It's not overblown by any industry metric.

 CptJake wrote:

 Vulcan wrote:
Given that many people drive enormous gas-hog off-road trucks and SUV's as their commuter car... I'd say what they want is rarely what they actually need.

My F350 diesel dual rear wheel long bed crew cab 4wd is a need not a want. I have horses (and other animals). They need to be trailered to go riding. I need to pick up large numbers of hay bales and get them home. With my flat trailer I can haul about 120 bales in one go. It also hauls a pallet of metal t-posts or a pallet of bags of quickcrete in the bed. Tows dozens of 6 inch by 8ft treated fence posts and several rolls of no-climb fence. And other stuff. I'm often on dirt or no roads on my property to drop off materials for a project or when getting to where we'll be riding.

It will be a while before an electric truck can replace what I use my truck for.


And I have an Audi Q7 (also diesel) as my 'go to work' vehicle when not on my bike. It hauls 10-12 50-pound bags of feed in the back so I don't use the less fuel economic truck just to get feed. It gets decent milage for my daily commute, but frankly is used for much more than that (such as picking up feed).

Judging what people 'need' vice 'want' with out knowing what they actually need is a bit silly.

For you I'd say that truck is a 'need', because you USE IT as a truck.

I've seen too many similar trucks with their showroom shine driving back and forth during rush hour, with one occupant, going from Ladue to downtown Clayon in St. Louis County, still with the showroom shine. Clearly they are being used as commuter vehicles, not as cargo-carrying trucks like yours. They could use a sedan and get the same results for far less gas burned...

 Andrew1975 wrote:

 CptJake wrote:

 Vulcan wrote:
Given that many people drive enormous gas-hog off-road trucks and SUV's as their commuter car... I'd say what they want is rarely what they actually need.

My F350 diesel dual rear wheel long bed crew cab 4wd is a need not a want. I have horses (and other animals). They need to be trailered to go riding. I need to pick up large numbers of hay bales and get them home. With my flat trailer I can haul about 120 bales in one go. It also hauls a pallet of metal t-posts or a pallet of bags of quickcrete in the bed. Tows dozens of 6 inch by 8ft treated fence posts and several rolls of no-climb fence. And other stuff. I'm often on dirt or no roads on my property to drop off materials for a project or when getting to where we'll be riding.

It will be a while before an electric truck can replace what I use my truck for.


And I have an Audi Q7 (also diesel) as my 'go to work' vehicle when not on my bike. It hauls 10-12 50-pound bags of feed in the back so I don't use the less fuel economic truck just to get feed. It gets decent milage for my daily commute, but frankly is used for much more than that (such as picking up feed).

Judging what people 'need' vice 'want' with out knowing what they actually need is a bit silly.

There are many people that need SUVs sure....the vast majority dont. Many people drive SUVs because their ego cant handle a minivan. The new Chrysler pacifica hybrid is awesome though.

Clarify "SUV." A lot of SUVs now are based on car frames. My Wife's is only an inch longer than a Hyundai Elantra and no wider.

Lots of modern SUVs are just Minis on steroids.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Lots of modern SUVs are just Minis on steroids.

And don't really have much in the way of space or even ground clearance that the hatchbacks they're based on, and are 90% FWD.

It's mostly aesthetics over any actual metrics (which btw is a perfectly good reason to choose a car over another).

A higher seating position, lumpen styling and a few grand more on the price tag is the definition, I think. And more dirt tracks and fewer motorways in the ads.

and yet, 98% of jeep wranglers never leave the asphalt

These days SUV just means "something taller than a sedan". I refuse to use the word crossover, because it just sounds stupid. I'm old and stubborn like that.

Yep. 90% of off-road vehicles never leave pavement and are used as expensive daily drivers.

If you need the capability, by all means buy the capability you need. But why buy an eight-person off-road vehicle when you only use it to drive to work alone? Doesn't make sense.

jouso wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:

jouso wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:

Well, this is not the case in most of the US. Trying to find a charger for other cars is pretty difficult. Im not sure which EVs your driving, most of them feel like runners up to me. Nissan Leaf, Chevy bolt, that BMW......they all pail in comparison. Right now Tesla has the performance, battery and charging edge on everybody.

Performance is something I don't expect of an electric car. Electric cars are supposed to be saving the planet, not hurl yourself fast, and in any case performance in many ways is a compromise wrt to reliability. I'm pretty sure Tesla dismal reliability comes from trying to push the performance/range envelope too hard.

Range yes, though I'm not sure Tesla has any advantage there. Battery size to range for, say, the Kona or Leaf compared to the M3 give pretty similar results.

Charging edge, if you're talking about the supercharger network that's true of the US. Certainly not here. And the traditional performance brands are clearly prioritising charging speeds over range (which is also a compromise, you take one at the expense of the other), the eTron, Taycan, etc. will charge faster than a Tesla but will trade that for smaller range all other things being equal.

Software and gimmicks. As said before, Tesla is incredibly buggy and glitchy. It really feels you're betatesting which I assume is ok with some people but I would definitely feel robbed if I spent 60K+ on a car which doesn't really work out of the can.

The most important thing for a daily driver is that it works. From what I've seen, Tesla isn't there yet.

Maybe to you electric cars should be econo boxes....but the masses don't want that. Sales figures show it. If you want to replace ICE cars you have to offer something better. Reliability issues with Teslas are so overblown its ridiculous.

Tell that to my neighbor. That model S has almost spent as much time in service than on the road, and we're talking drive units, not a bumper repaint.

And that's compounded by Tesla absolute lack of a service infrastructure. Again, 4 technicians for a 40 million country. The wait for a mobile service in Spain is measured in months, and if the car can't get to Madrid on its own you depend on your insurance to have it transported there, which means some insurance companies are raising their premiums or refusing to insure them altogether. Tesla used to be a small close-knit community but their WhatsApp groups are fuming right now.

52% of Tesla's in the UK have spent over 3 weeks in service last year. How much of that is reliability and how much is poor planning and infrastructure i won't go into that but the truth is that if you want is a car that runs, look elsewhere.

No other brand has that kind of issues, for whatever reason. It's not overblown by any industry metric.

Tesla like all new brands has had teething issues. Consumer reports listed them as one of the best cars, they then pulled the raiting based on fit and finish issues, specifically saying the cars function well. They also said it appeared that fit and finish issues had been resolved. Tesla also gives you a loaner car anytime that your car is in the shop. Their are plenty of cars with absolutely atrocious maintenance records, Tesla is not one of them. At worst they have been rated below avarage, and again that comes from fit and finish issues.
https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/tesla-model-3-loses-cr-recommendation-over-reliability-issues/
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a26476171/consumer-reports-tesla-model-3-reliability/

Tesla model 3 owners broke 3 billion miles in record time, you cant do that with shity cars. Does your neighbors car have problems....maybe, do all manufactures make a lemon or two, absolutely...it happens.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Necros wrote:
and yet, 98% of jeep wranglers never leave the asphalt

These days SUV just means "something taller than a sedan". I refuse to use the word crossover, because it just sounds stupid. I'm old and stubborn like that.

Again Ill say most SUV drivers are just afraid of driving minivans. Sure some people use them for work, and some people go mudding. But many just buy them because they feel safer in a taller car with extra armor. These people are usually bad drivers in the first place, compounded with the fact that the drive quality, tippy nature, extra size and blind spots actually make them much more dangerous vehicles. Most people should be driving sedans.....but they cant see over everyone elses hummers, so they buy hummers and that is why SUVs have taken over our roads here in the US.

And please if you are going to drive a car that is too big for you, at least learn how to park it, so many times I see these things taking up more than one parking spot.

Testify Andrew1975! I’m not a fan of SUVs either. Especially when they’re being driven by people who probably shouldn’t be driving anything bigger than a VW Up.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
A higher seating position, lumpen styling and a few grand more on the price tag is the definition, I think. And more dirt tracks and fewer motorways in the ads.

Actually no. Many of the very popular models (Rogue, HRV) are the same price as their slightly shorter brethren. The only real difference is that the cabin is slightly taller. They are smaller than the station wagons of old.

Again Ill say most SUV drivers are just afraid of driving minivans.

Could be. We had a minivan. As the wife would always say, we could fit a 6 ft sheet of plywood in it or a full sized marumba. But with the kids gone there was no need to keep such a large vehicle*, and they are about $15K more expensive.

*The wife wanted a pickup actually.

 Andrew1975 wrote:


Tesla like all new brands has had teething issues. Consumer reports listed them as one of the best cars, they then pulled the raiting based on fit and finish issues, specifically saying the cars function well. They also said it appeared that fit and finish issues had been resolved. Tesla also gives you a loaner car anytime that your car is in the shop. Their are plenty of cars with absolutely atrocious maintenance records, Tesla is not one of them. At worst they have been rated below avarage, and again that comes from fit and finish issues.
https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/tesla-model-3-loses-cr-recommendation-over-reliability-issues/
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a26476171/consumer-reports-tesla-model-3-reliability/

Tesla model 3 owners broke 3 billion miles in record time, you cant do that with shity cars. Does your neighbors car have problems....maybe, do all manufactures make a lemon or two, absolutely...it happens.

It's not one lemon or two:


Reliability for hybrids and electric cars aged one to four
Rank Make and model Score
1 Nissan Leaf (2011-2017) 99.7%
2 Toyota Yaris Hybrid (2011-present) 98.2%
3 Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV (2014-present) 97.7%
4 Lexus IS (2013-present) 97.6%
5 Toyota Auris Hybrid (2013-present) 96.7%
6 Lexus NX (2009-2017) 96.6%
7 Toyota Prius (2016-present) 94.0%
8 Hyundai Ioniq Hybrid, PHEV and EV (2016-present) 93.8%
9 BMW i3 (2013-present) 91.0%
10 Renault Zoe (2013-present) 83.0%
11 Tesla Model S (2013-present ) 50.9%

It's half the cars spending at least 3 weeks in service (UK data). One or two lemons is what I'd call Leaf or even Hyundai or BMW. Tesla is in a league of its own.

How much of that is actual reliability and how much is just poor service and parts logistics? I can't tell but it is a big thing.

And I can tell you things have gotten way worse with the model 3, where service already stretched too thin now has to care for many more cars.

I have a feeling your data will be completely ignored, Jouso. This is that whole Apple ownership elitism thing all over again.

jouso wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:


Tesla like all new brands has had teething issues. Consumer reports listed them as one of the best cars, they then pulled the raiting based on fit and finish issues, specifically saying the cars function well. They also said it appeared that fit and finish issues had been resolved. Tesla also gives you a loaner car anytime that your car is in the shop. Their are plenty of cars with absolutely atrocious maintenance records, Tesla is not one of them. At worst they have been rated below avarage, and again that comes from fit and finish issues.
https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/tesla-model-3-loses-cr-recommendation-over-reliability-issues/
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a26476171/consumer-reports-tesla-model-3-reliability/

Tesla model 3 owners broke 3 billion miles in record time, you cant do that with shity cars. Does your neighbors car have problems....maybe, do all manufactures make a lemon or two, absolutely...it happens.

It's not one lemon or two:


Reliability for hybrids and electric cars aged one to four
Rank Make and model Score
1 Nissan Leaf (2011-2017) 99.7%
2 Toyota Yaris Hybrid (2011-present) 98.2%
3 Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV (2014-present) 97.7%
4 Lexus IS (2013-present) 97.6%
5 Toyota Auris Hybrid (2013-present) 96.7%
6 Lexus NX (2009-2017) 96.6%
7 Toyota Prius (2016-present) 94.0%
8 Hyundai Ioniq Hybrid, PHEV and EV (2016-present) 93.8%
9 BMW i3 (2013-present) 91.0%
10 Renault Zoe (2013-present) 83.0%
11 Tesla Model S (2013-present ) 50.9%

It's half the cars spending at least 3 weeks in service (UK data). One or two lemons is what I'd call Leaf or even Hyundai or BMW. Tesla is in a league of its own.

How much of that is actual reliability and how much is just poor service and parts logistics? I can't tell but it is a big thing.

And I can tell you things have gotten way worse with the model 3, where service already stretched too thin now has to care for many more cars.

Firstly, Nercos is askiing specifically about the model 3, the model S was designed when Tesla had very little build experience and it shows, the doors rattle, but again for the most part these are still fit and finish issues. I also like how you never site where your stats are coming from.

Like I said, and most of the reports show, Most of these were fit and finish issues especially with the model 3. Most of the cars still run and work properly. Tesla has grown so fast that is does lack infrastructure to do the repair in a timely manner. Having odd panel gaps is an issue for sure, but its not really a reliability issue. Does it take tesla a long time to remove a panel and place it properly....YES, they are stretched a bit thin. Replacement parts are also hard to come by as they are dedicating production to making cars right now.......not so much in making spare parts. The cars still get you from point a to b, this is not engine failure or being stuck on the side of the road. If you bother reading any of these lists they will tell you the other cars on these lists are actually unriliable....as in won't run, or WILL leave you stranded, the Tesla issues are minor. This is also reflected in the satisfaction surveys as Teslas come out on the list as most satisfied owners.......thats HUGE!

Ive had my car for awhile and I'm still waiting for my badging and spoiler......not really a big deal to me. The cars themselves are reliable. As consumer reports said the complaints that they received were fit and finish issues, not cars malfunctioning.

To show you how respected Teslas are Der Speigel wrote an article about them, which is a major endorsement. Der Speigel has historically been a major Tesla basher, and while it does have criticisms this well respected German publication clearly says thier own automakers should feel put on notice. https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-rave-reviews-der-spiegel/

Necros......If you end up buying one, i have a code that will get you 1000 miles of free supercharging, ill happily give you my code.

I read about those referals, was going to get one from a random youtuber if I buy one but sure PM me your code and I'll use it. But if you win a roadster because of me then you have to share it.

I probably won't be ready to buy till this summer, maybe june or july. I read that at the end of a quarter they usually have good deals on buying slightly used test drive cars so I might look into that. Just worried though that I won't like the ride height or lack there of, so if that's the case I may end up waiting for the model Y after all. But 2 years is a long time to wait, who knows what other cool new EVs might come out by then. Pretty much decided my next car will be EV though. I saw somewhere VW is bringing back their old hippy van, but as an EV. Looked pretty cool.

 Necros wrote:
I read about those referals, was going to get one from a random youtuber if I buy one but sure PM me your code and I'll use it. But if you win a roadster because of me then you have to share it.

I probably won't be ready to buy till this summer, maybe june or july. I read that at the end of a quarter they usually have good deals on buying slightly used test drive cars so I might look into that. Just worried though that I won't like the ride height or lack there of, so if that's the case I may end up waiting for the model Y after all. But 2 years is a long time to wait, who knows what other cool new EVs might come out by then. Pretty much decided my next car will be EV though. I saw somewhere VW is bringing back their old hippy van, but as an EV. Looked pretty cool.

I would take one for a test drive for sure. If you lived anywhere near me I'd totally take for a spin. Yeah, so ask for cars with adjustments. Mine was a floor model that had 2800 miles on it and they took off $6500. How much longer they will do that I don't know. Demand for their cars is pretty high, plus right now you get $3750 tax rebate from the government and I think that will expire in June.

 Andrew1975 wrote:


Firstly, Nercos is askiing specifically about the model 3, the model S was designed when Tesla had very little build experience and it shows, the doors rattle, but again for the most part these are still fit and finish issues. I also like how you never site where your stats are coming from.

It is the model 3 that's clogging a service infrastructure that could barely support smaller numbers of model S and X. It's too early for M3 to show in reliability lists, but the anecdotal data doesn't look good.

Like I said, and most of the reports show, Most of these were fit and finish issues especially with the model 3. Most of the cars still run and work properly. Tesla has grown so fast that is does lack infrastructure to do the repair in a timely manner. Having odd panel gaps is an issue for sure, but its not really a reliability issue. Does it take tesla a long time to remove a panel and place it properly....YES, they are stretched a bit thin. Replacement parts are also hard to come by as they are dedicating production to making cars right now.......not so much in making spare parts. The cars still get you from point a to b, this is not engine failure or being stuck on the side of the road.

Fit and finish might seem like non-issues to you (though people who are used to paying 50-60K on a car usually do differ) but the underlying problem is it means that if you have a crash, even if it's minor it's going to stay months off the road waiting for parts. And relatively minor damage will total your car and hit you with severe depreciation.

But besides that, there are definitely running gear and other key component failures, too. Motor replacements, battery pack replacements, suspension links breaking, charging ports not working, car rebooting while driving.... the fb and whatsapp for tesla owner groups tone is now majority negative.

If you're lucky enough to get a good one, Teslas are great cars as long as you can squeeze the electric car routines in your daily life. If you get a lemon (and all evidence points at there being many more lemons than average) you'll be left hung to dry, with contradicting answers on if/when your problem can be fixed... if you get a reply at all.

I think I read you have till the end of June for the $3750 tax credit, after that it's cut in half till the end of the year, then it's gone. The credit for PA is $1750, but not sure if/when that ends. But I like the idea of getting $5500 back. Right now I'm would probably end up going with the standard range +, I'd like to get long range but I don't know if I could afford that.

I think other EVs have the full $7500 credit but Teslas have been selling good enough that the government is cutting back on them. So that's something to consider. I was planning to check out the chevy bolt, but I saw one driving by the other day and it looked so tiny, I don't think I'd like it. Something like a buick encore is the smallest I think I could live with. VW has some cool options coming but I think they're a couple years away.

Here are a couple of interesting reports via BoingBoing, about security flaws in Tesla cars.

https://boingboing.net/2019/03/31/mote-in-cars-eye.html

https://boingboing.net/2019/03/30/greentheonly.html

While these are studies done on Teslas, it's likely that these kind of faults exist in most or perhaps all current generation vehicles with any significant amount of self-driving ability and on-board computing.

Yeah I worry about the high tech stuff a little. Definitely not only a Tesla thing though. I have a 2015 jeep renegade, after I bought it, I came across an article about some hackers were able to get into the car through a paired cell phone and basically just shut the engine down in the middle of a highway. It was a controlled test with no danger at the time, but still.

Teslas are always connected to the internet for over the air updates, so even if you don't have a phone, it could happen. I guess Chevy's are too since they are always talking about how they have wifi. Just a matter of time till Skynet takes over.

 Necros wrote:
Yeah I worry about the high tech stuff a little. Definitely not only a Tesla thing though. I have a 2015 jeep renegade, after I bought it, I came across an article about some hackers were able to get into the car through a paired cell phone and basically just shut the engine down in the middle of a highway. It was a controlled test with no danger at the time, but still.

Teslas are always connected to the internet for over the air updates, so even if you don't have a phone, it could happen. I guess Chevy's are too since they are always talking about how they have wifi. Just a matter of time till Skynet takes over.

Its a worry, but Tesla actually has contests to find vulnerabilities in its products. They actually just gave a Model 3 away to someone who was able to hack it. They appear to be pretty on top of it. I think a total of 4 Teslas have been stolen and not recovered, thats a pretty good track record.

Fit and finish might seem like non-issues to you (though people who are used to paying 50-60K on a car usually do differ) but the underlying problem is it means that if you have a crash, even if it's minor it's going to stay months off the road waiting for parts. And relatively minor damage will total your car and hit you with severe depreciation.

But besides that, there are definitely running gear and other key component failures, too. Motor replacements, battery pack replacements, suspension links breaking, charging ports not working, car rebooting while driving.... the fb and whatsapp for tesla owner groups tone is now majority negative.

If you're lucky enough to get a good one, Teslas are great cars as long as you can squeeze the electric car routines in your daily life. If you get a lemon (and all evidence points at there being many more lemons than average) you'll be left hung to dry, with contradicting answers on if/when your problem can be fixed... if you get a reply at all.

Again you are overstating the case. Nobody makes perfect cars, Tesla currently has the highest customer satisfaction rating according to consumer reports, so if they were as bad as you keep trying to make them, customers wouldn't be so satisfied. Im a member of many of the Tesla community groups, their tone is far from negative. Yeah, there are some people who are critical...many don't even understand their cars. I was just reading about a guy complaining that his summon only moved his car ten feet he felt cheated and underwhelmed.......well yeah, thats what summon does, unless you have advanced summon.....which he didn't. Most of the crying you see on the forums is people that haven't bothered to even read their manual or just expected too much from their car. "my regenerative braking is too aggressive and I'm afraid its going to eat my brakes" yeah, you can adjust the regenerative braking and regenerative braking doesn't use the brakes. The amount of people crying about their badgeing is rediculous. No, i havent gotten my carbon fiber spoiler of my Dual Motor Performance badge yet and I've had my car for awhile. Would it be nice to have them...sure, but there is no need to pitch a fit about it. It doesn't affect my driving experience and it will come eventually. Are people getting their car delivered with them now, while I still wait. YEP! To some people thats a big deal, not to me.

Again you are overstating the case. Nobody makes perfect cars,

Ah younglings, they know not what they say. Behold the 427 Shelby Cobra!

It's not perfect. It doesn't have wire spoke wheels.

http://www.shelbyforums.com/gallery/files/1/9/3/6/CSX2310.jpg

 Kilkrazy wrote:
It's not perfect. It doesn't have wire spoke wheels.

http://www.shelbyforums.com/gallery/files/1/9/3/6/CSX2310.jpg

Wire spoke wheels are inefficient. 427 is the answer to the question, What Would RaptorJesus Drive?

The purpose of a sports car isn't to be efficient.

The purpose is to cool and elegant

Wire spoke wheels are inherently cooler and more elegant.

Personally like the spoke wheels better too

I always think about how I'm gonna bling out my new car, then 4 years later I'm trading it in the same way I bought it, just with a lot more crumbs in the carpet. In fact, probably more crumbs than carpet at that point..

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The purpose of a sports car isn't to be efficient.

The purpose is to cool and elegant

Wire spoke wheels are inherently cooler and more elegant.

Inefficient for the weight. The purpose of the 427 was to beat Ferraris on the track. Being street legal was a minor secondary concern.
We'll say its personal preference.

For the Brits, another perfect automobile, with spoked wheels!

 Frazzled wrote:

Again you are overstating the case. Nobody makes perfect cars,

Ah younglings, they know not what they say. Behold the 427 Shelby Cobra!

It's great for bombing around having fun. Some possibilities for picking up easily-impressed girls... or boys, if that's your thing.

Not the most fuel-efficient car for idling in heavy traffic during rush hour, though. Two seats, limits it's use for families. No cargo capacity worth speaking of; not good for getting groceries or hauling furniture. And the off-road capability is laughable; not a replacement for a good 4x4.

It's exceptional at what it does, yes. But it doesn't do so much it can hardly be considered 'perfect'.

 Vulcan wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

Again you are overstating the case. Nobody makes perfect cars,

Ah younglings, they know not what they say. Behold the 427 Shelby Cobra!

It's great for bombing around having fun. Some possibilities for picking up easily-impressed girls... or boys, if that's your thing.

Not the most fuel-efficient car for idling in heavy traffic during rush hour, though. Two seats, limits it's use for families. No cargo capacity worth speaking of; not good for getting groceries or hauling furniture. And the off-road capability is laughable; not a replacement for a good 4x4.

It's exceptional at what it does, yes. But it doesn't do so much it can hardly be considered 'perfect'.

Oh contraire. As you stated, its perfect for what it does. Its the perfect sports car. Like the humble but terrifying wiener dog, its the perfect predator.