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2019/05/30 19:22:40
Subject: Re:What do you think about electric cars?
Or maybe that its roasting high end German cars on your own turf. Thats a BMW M2 trying to pass the Tesla....it can't.
I like electric cars and think they ahave a major part to play, but no, that does not show it "roasting high end German cars on your own turf".
1) That's an M2. It is not high end. It is the same price as the Tesla. It's low to mid range performance car in the same market as the Tesla.
2) That's the Nürburgring, not a race track. It is an open session. The M2 is following the Tesla, and keeping up no problem.If the M2 was trying to pass one of them would have been black flagged.
3) The Tesla driver, frankly, is driving like a bit of a gakker. The M2 drives very sensibly, waiting for other drivers to pull right to let him pass. The Tesla is following cars far to close and trying to bully them out of the way.
At best that shows that the Tesla 3's performance is similar to equivalent cars. Not even current ones. The M2 is now end of life, and the Model 3 is brand new.
Seriously, Tesla's are not bad cars, but they are not better than the competition, unless you take some very specific metrics and ignore their history of woeful reliability and their inability to meet demand, both for new cars and parts when something goes wrong.
Interesting opinions there. Most reports I've read have the M2 as a pretty decent drivers car in most repects better than an M3, The M2 clearly gets dusted on acceleration repeatedly, you are also clearly allowed to pass on the track, so i don't know what you are talking about. Nobody said this guy was a professional driver in fact there are three people in the Tesla. Just another FUDer whos got to FUD.
So here are some other numbers. "During its initial test under the hands of the professional driver, the Model 3 Performance lapped the track in 1:23.90. Equipped with Track Mode’s “release version,” the electric sedan completed the same course in 1:21.49. That time pretty much matches the record of the 2016 Porsche Cayman GT4, and is far quicker than the Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio’s 1:22.78 lap. Perhaps more remarkable was that the Model 3 Performance’s new record in the Willow Springs Streets actually ended up beating one of Motor Trend‘s Best Driver’s Car winners in the past — the 2011 Ferrari 458 Italia, which completed the course in 1:22.30.
I had a wtf moment when I saw minute and a half times for Nurburgring then a googled a bit and saw those are for the much shorter Willow springs.
Then I tried to get Nurburgring times for the Tesla M3P and I couldn't find any, and probably this is the cause:
Or maybe that its roasting high end German cars on your own turf. Thats a BMW M2 trying to pass the Tesla....it can't.
I like electric cars and think they ahave a major part to play, but no, that does not show it "roasting high end German cars on your own turf".
1) That's an M2. It is not high end. It is the same price as the Tesla. It's low to mid range performance car in the same market as the Tesla.
2) That's the Nürburgring, not a race track. It is an open session. The M2 is following the Tesla, and keeping up no problem.If the M2 was trying to pass one of them would have been black flagged.
3) The Tesla driver, frankly, is driving like a bit of a gakker. The M2 drives very sensibly, waiting for other drivers to pull right to let him pass. The Tesla is following cars far to close and trying to bully them out of the way.
At best that shows that the Tesla 3's performance is similar to equivalent cars. Not even current ones. The M2 is now end of life, and the Model 3 is brand new.
Seriously, Tesla's are not bad cars, but they are not better than the competition, unless you take some very specific metrics and ignore their history of woeful reliability and their inability to meet demand, both for new cars and parts when something goes wrong.
Interesting opinions there. Most reports I've read have the M2 as a pretty decent drivers car in most repects better than an M3, The M2 clearly gets dusted on acceleration repeatedly, you are also clearly allowed to pass on the track, so i don't know what you are talking about. Nobody said this guy was a professional driver in fact there are three people in the Tesla. Just another FUDer whos got to FUD.
So here are some other numbers. "During its initial test under the hands of the professional driver, the Model 3 Performance lapped the track in 1:23.90. Equipped with Track Mode’s “release version,” the electric sedan completed the same course in 1:21.49. That time pretty much matches the record of the 2016 Porsche Cayman GT4, and is far quicker than the Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio’s 1:22.78 lap. Perhaps more remarkable was that the Model 3 Performance’s new record in the Willow Springs Streets actually ended up beating one of Motor Trend‘s Best Driver’s Car winners in the past — the 2011 Ferrari 458 Italia, which completed the course in 1:22.30.
Yes, the M2 is considered a decent drivers car, but that’s not the same as a high end performance car, which was your statement. And yes, people are clearly allowed to pass, but you are not allowed to race or be aggressive. It is a public road after all, so anyone involved in “trying” to pass would be black flagged. Slower cars have to move over to facilitate passing and faster cars have to wait until the slower car moves over. If you read the background of this clip the drivers are friends and neither car is pushing it, it was just a ride round they filmed. It shows nothing.
insaniak wrote: Sometimes, Exterminatus is the only option.
And sometimes, it's just a case of too much scotch combined with too many buttons...
AndrewGPaul wrote: As Steve points out, the Nurburgring isn’t a race track; it’s a public road, subject to all the same rules and laws as any other road in Germany.
Yea but it sounds really cool, like you may pass some Valkyries or something.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2019/05/30 20:22:11
Subject: Re:What do you think about electric cars?
Or maybe that its roasting high end German cars on your own turf. Thats a BMW M2 trying to pass the Tesla....it can't.
I like electric cars and think they ahave a major part to play, but no, that does not show it "roasting high end German cars on your own turf".
1) That's an M2. It is not high end. It is the same price as the Tesla. It's low to mid range performance car in the same market as the Tesla.
2) That's the Nürburgring, not a race track. It is an open session. The M2 is following the Tesla, and keeping up no problem.If the M2 was trying to pass one of them would have been black flagged.
3) The Tesla driver, frankly, is driving like a bit of a gakker. The M2 drives very sensibly, waiting for other drivers to pull right to let him pass. The Tesla is following cars far to close and trying to bully them out of the way.
At best that shows that the Tesla 3's performance is similar to equivalent cars. Not even current ones. The M2 is now end of life, and the Model 3 is brand new.
Seriously, Tesla's are not bad cars, but they are not better than the competition, unless you take some very specific metrics and ignore their history of woeful reliability and their inability to meet demand, both for new cars and parts when something goes wrong.
Interesting opinions there. Most reports I've read have the M2 as a pretty decent drivers car in most repects better than an M3, The M2 clearly gets dusted on acceleration repeatedly, you are also clearly allowed to pass on the track, so i don't know what you are talking about. Nobody said this guy was a professional driver in fact there are three people in the Tesla. Just another FUDer whos got to FUD.
So here are some other numbers. "During its initial test under the hands of the professional driver, the Model 3 Performance lapped the track in 1:23.90. Equipped with Track Mode’s “release version,” the electric sedan completed the same course in 1:21.49. That time pretty much matches the record of the 2016 Porsche Cayman GT4, and is far quicker than the Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio’s 1:22.78 lap. Perhaps more remarkable was that the Model 3 Performance’s new record in the Willow Springs Streets actually ended up beating one of Motor Trend‘s Best Driver’s Car winners in the past — the 2011 Ferrari 458 Italia, which completed the course in 1:22.30.
I had a wtf moment when I saw minute and a half times for Nurburgring then a googled a bit and saw those are for the much shorter Willow springs.
Then I tried to get Nurburgring times for the Tesla M3P and I couldn't find any, and probably this is the cause:
Or maybe that its roasting high end German cars on your own turf. Thats a BMW M2 trying to pass the Tesla....it can't.
I like electric cars and think they ahave a major part to play, but no, that does not show it "roasting high end German cars on your own turf".
1) That's an M2. It is not high end. It is the same price as the Tesla. It's low to mid range performance car in the same market as the Tesla.
2) That's the Nürburgring, not a race track. It is an open session. The M2 is following the Tesla, and keeping up no problem.If the M2 was trying to pass one of them would have been black flagged.
3) The Tesla driver, frankly, is driving like a bit of a gakker. The M2 drives very sensibly, waiting for other drivers to pull right to let him pass. The Tesla is following cars far to close and trying to bully them out of the way.
At best that shows that the Tesla 3's performance is similar to equivalent cars. Not even current ones. The M2 is now end of life, and the Model 3 is brand new.
Seriously, Tesla's are not bad cars, but they are not better than the competition, unless you take some very specific metrics and ignore their history of woeful reliability and their inability to meet demand, both for new cars and parts when something goes wrong.
Interesting opinions there. Most reports I've read have the M2 as a pretty decent drivers car in most repects better than an M3, The M2 clearly gets dusted on acceleration repeatedly, you are also clearly allowed to pass on the track, so i don't know what you are talking about. Nobody said this guy was a professional driver in fact there are three people in the Tesla. Just another FUDer whos got to FUD.
So here are some other numbers. "During its initial test under the hands of the professional driver, the Model 3 Performance lapped the track in 1:23.90. Equipped with Track Mode’s “release version,” the electric sedan completed the same course in 1:21.49. That time pretty much matches the record of the 2016 Porsche Cayman GT4, and is far quicker than the Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio’s 1:22.78 lap. Perhaps more remarkable was that the Model 3 Performance’s new record in the Willow Springs Streets actually ended up beating one of Motor Trend‘s Best Driver’s Car winners in the past — the 2011 Ferrari 458 Italia, which completed the course in 1:22.30.
I had a wtf moment when I saw minute and a half times for Nurburgring then a googled a bit and saw those are for the much shorter Willow springs.
Then I tried to get Nurburgring times for the Tesla M3P and I couldn't find any, and probably this is the cause:
Impossible Opinion??? is that possible? Please explain.
1hadhq, you should just ignore Andrew, as he's demonstrated repeatedly that he is 1, a Tesla Fanboy and *nothing* they do can be wrong. and 2, he does not know what he is talking about, as I shall now prove (and not the first person to do so)
See, he claims that 1 million units of a given vehicle is "impossible. . .
If you see here, Ford has done it again with their POS F-150. 1 million units in a year.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Steve steveson wrote: It is a public road after all, so anyone involved in “trying” to pass would be black flagged. Slower cars have to move over to facilitate passing and faster cars have to wait until the slower car moves over. If you read the background of this clip the drivers are friends and neither car is pushing it, it was just a ride round they filmed. It shows nothing.
Nurburgring isn't quite a public road, at least not in the same sense as Circuit de la Sarthe is. . . . But you are absolutely correct in that in the "open day" sessions they run throughout non-race weekends during the summer, during the drivers' brief they tell you all the rules, and they are just as they are on the open highways: stay to the right basically at all times, if you see another car coming up behind you, stay to the right, etc.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/30 21:48:11
Just Tony wrote: Okay, so time for some clarity: what the feth is a FUD?
google tells me a few things. . . one, its an acronym for "fear uncertainty and doubt" . . . and two, its scottish slang, and rather rude slang for "certain lady bits"
2019/05/31 05:49:57
Subject: Re:What do you think about electric cars?
Impossible Opinion??? is that possible? Please explain.
1hadhq, you should just ignore Andrew, as he's demonstrated repeatedly that he is 1, a Tesla Fanboy and *nothing* they do can be wrong. and 2, he does not know what he is talking about, as I shall now prove (and not the first person to do so)
See, he claims that 1 million units of a given vehicle is "impossible. . .
If you see here, Ford has done it again with their POS F-150. 1 million units in a year.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Steve steveson wrote: It is a public road after all, so anyone involved in “trying” to pass would be black flagged. Slower cars have to move over to facilitate passing and faster cars have to wait until the slower car moves over. If you read the background of this clip the drivers are friends and neither car is pushing it, it was just a ride round they filmed. It shows nothing.
Nurburgring isn't quite a public road, at least not in the same sense as Circuit de la Sarthe is. . . . But you are absolutely correct in that in the "open day" sessions they run throughout non-race weekends during the summer, during the drivers' brief they tell you all the rules, and they are just as they are on the open highways: stay to the right basically at all times, if you see another car coming up behind you, stay to the right, etc.
Officially during public sessions it is legal classed as a one way public toll road with no speed limit. All German road laws apply.
Just Tony wrote: Okay, so time for some clarity: what the feth is a FUD?
google tells me a few things. . . one, its an acronym for "fear uncertainty and doubt" . . . and two, its scottish slang, and rather rude slang for "certain lady bits"
I think he is trying to imply that I’m not unconditionally praising the model 3 because I don’t understand and fear it because it is new... I didn’t even say it was bad, just that it is not as good as claimed. They are good cars and have their place. They are about as fast as the competition round a track, but by all accounts no where near as engaging and enjoyable. They are cheap to run but also about the worst for reliability and after sales support. The biggest problem is the owners who will defend them to the hilt and put off people who are vaguely positive. I have said before that I like electric cars, and may well buy one as my next car, but not a Tesla. Nothing to do with performance or range, both of which are adequate, but because I can’t have a car that is likely to go wrong and when it does possibly have to wait weeks for parts. I also don’t want to be on a waiting list to buy a car for months or years unless it is something seriously special, not a family saloon.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/31 06:10:32
insaniak wrote: Sometimes, Exterminatus is the only option.
And sometimes, it's just a case of too much scotch combined with too many buttons...
Glad to see this thread is still as entertaining as always.
I think the post above hits the nail on the head for what Tesla's problems are in the real world, and more so in Europe than in the US I suspect. The Model 3 isn't available for most people yet because it's either sold out or not even on sale at all. Tesla's reliability issues are a concern, as is the lack of support for servicing and repairs. Ultimately, if I buy an EV from literally any other manufacturer I get all the benefits of an EV and the benefits of that manufacturer's servicing and repair infrastructure. I don't think anyone's doubting the specs of the Tesla and how good the technology is but after a certain point that stops being the primary concern and things like reliability and price enter into the equation. I think this is when Tesla might start to struggle. Initially they were the only really practical EV on the market but as more and more manufacturers start producing cars with ranges above 200 miles I think Tesla stops being as attractive as it once was.
Most people in Europe would be happy with a reliable range of 100 miles as long as they could be sure of finding a charger when they arrive.
For example my daily commut is 25 miles each way.
if I drive to the Cotswolds for a weekend, it's about 50-60 miles so I'll be fine if I can charge while I'm parked.
The last long trip I made was to take my daughter to university in Exeter. That's about 150 to 180 miles, depending on the route. If my car had 100 miles range, I would need to plan a charging stop in the middle, which would be the equivalent of a coffee and wee stop in a conventional car.
Before that I had a holiday in Corwall. It was about 200+ mile drive to get there, so I would plan in two charging stops.
It certainly would be nice to have a 200 mile range but what EVs really need is more charging points.
150 miles is the range we're looking at and would be happy with but there are a few cars either on the market or coming soon that have over 200 miles of range and won't cost £70,000+. The Model 3 is one but Kia and Hyundai both have EVs with that kind of range too.
Agree that the real change that's needed is more chargers. It'd be nice if every EV didn't have to come with an app built-in that shows the nearest charging points. What we should be moving towards is having charging points be the norm in any large car park or service station. And not just the half a dozen a lot of these locations currently have, but enough that you don't have to worry about being able to use them.
Just Tony wrote: Okay, so time for some clarity: what the feth is a FUD?
Feline Underground Dweller! Aka Sewer Kitties!
No?
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
If driving an EV narrows your world view so much, you start to think Germans = gassing people, maybe get a real car and open your eyes. Its not the 1900 anymore.
It is easy to pass a Tesla, usually they are standing around charging.... not even a challenge for pedestrians!
I bet you take far more time out of your day fueling your car than I do, i just plug it in when i get home and wake up to a fresh car. No need to drive around, look for a gas station and wait for 15 minutes.
The majority of kilometres i drive is for work. And we get paid for the time we are at the gas station, i am making money when refueling Plus, range of vehicles i drive is usually 700-800 km. Won't be at a gas station more than 1x-2x a month.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/05/31 14:23:59
Target locked,ready to fire
In dedicatio imperatum ultra articulo mortis.
H.B.M.C :
We were wrong. It's not the 40k End Times. It's the Trademarkening.
2019/05/31 19:15:46
Subject: Re:What do you think about electric cars?
Yeah , I listed how many times cars have sold 1 million units globally, its been done six times. The model 3 has been available in Germany for a whopping 5 months...if even. Nobody has ever sold 1 million units of a specific model in Germany in one year EVER!
So literally under those conditions has any car ever been a big hit in Germany.
VW bug was. Interestingly it was firstly a pre-order car. Many (most) who originally pre-ordered never saw them as the whole 'hey lets invade Russia! What could go wrong?' thing didn't work out as planned...
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
There a fairly solid idea. But they lack range right now.
Also the fact is to recharge can take hours.
I can fill up my petrol engine in 5 minutes and be on my way for longer than said electric car to boot.
That and the costs are quite serious if you need to replace a battery or repair. Thousands of pounds.
Now.
Hybrids, hrydotgen, high efficency frictionless drive conventional engines with ability to use brake energy gathering and battery boost hybrid systems etc.
Pure electric may not be the answer but I can be part of the solotion.
Now I do a short commute, so yes a electric might work for me but there also alot more expensive to buy though.
I can buy a OK ish small car for 2k, I doubt I could get a decent eketreic for 20k.
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
I have a question about electric cars. Is it unfeasible to carry an extended range battery in one, maybe in the trunk or backseat, maybe one the size of a suitcase?
Cryptek Keeper wrote: I have a question about electric cars. Is it unfeasible to carry an extended range battery in one, maybe in the trunk or backseat, maybe one the size of a suitcase?
Maybe. But for one they weigh a fair bit.
Two. The materals that make them up are fairly intense if ignited, so they for protection and weight place that down into thr chasis and lower body.
Maybe, but it depends on density, the Wright of a large ernough battery would have to be low ernough, and discharge fast ernough to charge the car, and extend range by a fair bit. Rather than a short distence to worth it.
For refrence I checked. The Teslas main battery weighs about half a ton.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/09 14:40:24
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
Cryptek Keeper wrote: I have a question about electric cars. Is it unfeasible to carry an extended range battery in one, maybe in the trunk or backseat, maybe one the size of a suitcase?
Maybe. But for one they weigh a fair bit.
Two. The materals that make them up are fairly intense if ignited, so they for protection and weight place that down into thr chasis and lower body.
Maybe, but it depends on density, the Wright of a large ernough battery would have to be low ernough, and discharge fast ernough to charge the car, and extend range by a fair bit. Rather than a short distence to worth it.
For refrence I checked. The Teslas main battery weighs about half a ton.
skip to about the 3:50 mark, and they actually change the batteries on this non-Tesla EV. . . I don't think Tesla's batteries are much smaller than this car's.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Electric cars are useful and have a place in the world. They have the ability to eliminate gas burners in very large numbers as they can replace them for a lot of people a lot of the time. They can be used in cities and over shorter distances that a lot of peolle deal with.
People who routinely drive longer distances will likely need to stick with gas cars, but even if electric cars "only" eliminate half of gas burners it's huge in terms of co2 emissions and fossil fuel usage.
And i'd imagine electric cars can replace more than half of cars by a fair margin.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/09 18:45:11
Automatically Appended Next Post: Electric cars are useful and have a place in the world. They have the ability to eliminate gas burners in very large numbers as they can replace them for a lot of people a lot of the time. They can be used in cities and over shorter distances that a lot of peolle deal with.
People who routinely drive longer distances will likely need to stick with gas cars, but even if electric cars "only" eliminate half of gas burners it's huge in terms of co2 emissions and fossil fuel usage.
And i'd imagine electric cars can replace more than half of cars by a fair margin.
Plenty of room for hybrids, or hydrogen cars. Also ultra effichant engines developed to furful the long distance requirements.
Electric will not yet fur full the long range section of transport, but yeah as a nip into town, drop the kids off, or so.
Its ideal. Though right now there alot of money vs a regular gasoline powered model. Basix cars, and low end ones might not be electric for a long time on mass.
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
If the savings of using an electric car for my daily commute were sufficient, I'd be happy to own one and then rent an ICE car for the one or two times a year where I have a long-distance drive. The only problem in the long term is that passing my driving test in an electric might mean I'm not eligible to drive an ICE car due to the different drivetrain and controls.
2019/06/10 20:27:49
Subject: Re:What do you think about electric cars?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Electric cars are useful and have a place in the world. They have the ability to eliminate gas burners in very large numbers as they can replace them for a lot of people a lot of the time. They can be used in cities and over shorter distances that a lot of peolle deal with.
People who routinely drive longer distances will likely need to stick with gas cars, but even if electric cars "only" eliminate half of gas burners it's huge in terms of co2 emissions and fossil fuel usage.
And i'd imagine electric cars can replace more than half of cars by a fair margin.
Plenty of room for hybrids, or hydrogen cars. Also ultra effichant engines developed to furful the long distance requirements.
Electric will not yet fur full the long range section of transport, but yeah as a nip into town, drop the kids off, or so.
Its ideal. Though right now there alot of money vs a regular gasoline powered model. Basix cars, and low end ones might not be electric for a long time on mass.
I'm pretty sure that the next car in our household will be electric, though the economics are not there yet.
However electric vehicles come with their own challenges.
To replace all UK-based vehicles today with electric vehicles (not including the LGV and HGV fleets), assuming they use the most resource-frugal next-generation NMC 811 batteries, would take 207,900 tonnes cobalt, 264,600 tonnes of lithium carbonate (LCE), at least 7,200 tonnes of neodymium and dysprosium, in addition to 2,362,500 tonnes copper. This represents, just under two times the total annual world cobalt production, nearly the entire world production of neodymium, three quarters the world’s lithium production and at least half of the world’s copper production during 2018.
And that's just for the UK, now look at it from a global perspective.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/10 20:30:57
2019/06/10 23:00:01
Subject: Re:What do you think about electric cars?
hat and the costs are quite serious if you need to replace a battery or repair. Thousands of pounds.
Think this one probably needs to be put to bed. Take a look at some of the Prius' (preiii? No idea how to write the plural ) with 200K + and 10 years old, still running on the original batteries. Yes at some point they will lose efficiency, but it's not likely to shorten the lifespan of the vehicle any further than the components on a petrol or diesel engined vehicle.
Future War Cultist wrote: Is it possible to have one vehicle with the options for both a hybrid engine and a full electric motor? VW do it with the Golf don’t they?
There are a few models out now that do this. As you say there is a Golf E that is a plug-in hybrid - keep it charged up (think range is about 40 miles?), but can run on petrol motor the rest of the time. You can choose to alternate between which motor you run on (i.e. switch to battery only if toodling around the city centre or at slow speed).
Toyota and Hyundai do similar, again you have the choice between recharging hybrid, plug-in hybrid or full electric.
I see there were some German posters above commenting about electrics not really being suitable. Having done some driving in Germany recently I can kind of see why - I would say at least 50% of the traffic seems to be big German motorway cruisers (BMWs, Audis etc.) doing 80/90mph+ on the autobahns for long stretches of time.
I've got a hybrid (petrol/electric combo) and there is no advantage at all to having that type of car on those roads - you may as well just get a big diesel and do 50/60mpg cruising at 80.
Where the hybrid comes into its own is on the UKs bendy B-roads, stopping and starting all of the time and cruising at low speed, where I think that type of road is a lot more common in the UK.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/10 23:02:37
Future War Cultist wrote: Is it possible to have one vehicle with the options for both a hybrid engine and a full electric motor? VW do it with the Golf don’t they?
It is, but that tends to lead to compromises that are undesirable. Generally speaking you're better off developing an electric from the ground up. The Golf, for example, has quite a short range for an electric, and I suspect that's at least partially down to it being based on a regular ICE car. The Chevy Bolt is pretty much a bodge-job based on a city car rather than building it "properly" from a blank sheet of paper. It works well enough as is but could probably be even better if developed as an EV from scratch. That costs money, though, and for most manufacturers it's more ecenomicaly viable to shove an electric motor and batteries in an existing car.
Radio 4 had an interesting report this morning about Porto Santo, an island in Portugal where they currently import most of their energy in the form of diesel.
They want to go sustainable and have plenty of potential for solar and wind, but they need a battery storage solution for calm/dark times.
They have teamed up with Renault to provide electric cars which can charge during peak production and feed back power into the local grid at night.
The cars only spend about 20% of their time being driven, so the rest of the time they can act as the island's power reserve.
Kilkrazy wrote: Radio 4 had an interesting report this morning about Porto Santo, an island in Portugal where they currently import most of their energy in the form of diesel.
They want to go sustainable and have plenty of potential for solar and wind, but they need a battery storage solution for calm/dark times.
They have teamed up with Renault to provide electric cars which can charge during peak production and feed back power into the local grid at night.
The cars only spend about 20% of their time being driven, so the rest of the time they can act as the island's power reserve.
Was also on the BBC News on TV this morning. It's interesting but I was a bit confused about some of the practicalities. The biggest concern most EV owners have is range and charging time and this system seemed to reduce range by taking energy from the car, while then also meaning you may need to charge more often when you want to use the car as an actual car rather than an energy storage unit. Admittedly I wasn't paying full attention as I was making breakfast at the time so these questions may have been answered.
Please explain. 
) with 200K + and 10 years old, still running on the original batteries. Yes at some point they will lose efficiency, but it's not likely to shorten the lifespan of the vehicle any further than the components on a petrol or diesel engined vehicle.
