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Dear lord Ossiarchs are bonkers, Katakros is hilarious. I’m not really sure what they were thinking. I feel bad coz my brother who got them just wants a fun time playing but no one can actually fight him without saying GG first turn.

Then they are playing as gw intended and they should either git gud and buy a better army or concede that theyll get flattened until their chosen army gets to be over the top bonkers.

But hey if its all about drinking beer and slinging dice then none of that should matter anyway!

Main thing against bonereapers is making sure you have abilities that can remove selected models.
They are still insanely sturdy, but losing the hekatos hurts them a lot.

The other key point is mobility.
You need to be able to move around and pick off certain units early on.
In a large blob army you don’t want force multipliers being left alive, so characters and harvesters have to go and quickly.


My chaos dwarves struggle with them quite a bit.
I have to commit to taking out any catapults early on.
Bull centaurs tend to make short work of most things though.

My clan moulder army was made purely for fun and theme anyway.
They quite literally bounce off them (as they do with most other armies)

My grey water fastness army does just fine though (pure dwarf)
Gyros gun through large mobs while being pinned in place.
Gotrek is there purely for killing harvesters, large mobs and characters as he really doesn’t care what it is, it will die.

I play Free Peoples, Gitz and Sylvaneth. And my mate plays Maggotkin and Skaven and neither of us have managed to beat the Bonereapers yet. We mainly play for fun and narrative so it’s alright for the most part, though it does hurt the narrative slightly when it’s all just Bonereapers winning forever haha. It’s most likely the units we use, I only use 1 unit of Greatswords and Gryph Knights and my friend uses a pretty random selection of Skaven units.
Just a shame that Ossiarchs seem a little on the nuts side. Are they as insane for other peeps, or is it just our meta?

It depends what they're running.

They are nuts with:
1. Lots of Mortek Guard
2. Harvesters near the Guard
3. Petrifax Elite

If they're doing all 3 of those, no casual list stands a chance to be honest. If they aren't doing any of those things then Bonereapers really aren't that scary.

If it becomes a serious issue for the group, I'd consider asking the Bonereaper player if it would be ok to play against them not running Petrifax Elite some time, just for fun.

Honestly Petrifax is what makes Ossiarchs broken - a flat +1 to all saves on models that already have good saves is very powerful. It's a bit of a pain too because Petrifax just overwhelmingly overpowers the other themed armies which are all fun in their own way.

I'd agree if it gets to be an issue just encourage them to use one of hte other fun themes like Crematorian - undead firebomb army!

Absolutely. Its definitely where I would target nerfs.

Maybe instead: once per unit, per phase - ignore a failed save roll. Something like that would still be decent (very good on leaders), but not be so oppressive to play against!

I would go even smaller; replace +1 to saves with re-roll save rolls of 1. Still useful, and it is redundant for mortek guard so providing some incentive to run the bigger stuff that Petrifax do in the fluff.

Even with no save buff at all Petrifax would be taken to gain access to a superb command ability, decent command trait, and an awesome artifact. The tradition is forcing a player to take less potent but more fluffy traits/artifacts in exchange for a benefit that can be built for. Petrifax gives a fantastic artifact that people would be taking even were it generic, the command trait stacking with said artifact is a potent combination, then the command ability & save buff are good for any army. One could build an Ossiarch army meant to utilize any of the other sub-factions, and said army would still be better in Petrifax.

Reroll 1s would be a very simple and neat fix!

It also nicely moves it into line with the others. Right now a blanket +1 save is just so much better it makes it almost a brainless choice to make over the others; which is a shame as it competitively shuts down other options.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also updated the master post with the new info on the two new battletomes. This means just ONE MORE tome needs to be announced for release and ALL of AoS will be running 2.0.

Seraphon appear to be heralding the completion with a ROAR!

I haven't had any problems with them yet, and i have seen Mawtribes just eat them up as well. I'll try to get a few more games vs them before i make final judgement, but honestly i don't see them as a problem so far.

Is the save and minor healing really that big of a problem for many people?

Idoneth aren't running a 2.0 book. Nor are Maggotkin or Daughters.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Idoneth aren't running a 2.0 book. Nor are Maggotkin or Daughters.

Yes they are - they were the first of the new breed of Battletomes and are fully 2.0 compliant. The only thing they "lack" is terrain and endless spells (which Urruks and Cities of Sigmar also lack). GW doesn't need to make a whole new battletome for them to get either of those additions. Heck Daughters have been one of the strongest armies of 2.0 for a fairly long while.

There's more to it than simply "they lack terrain and endless spells". There was a very big design shift with 2.0 that we kinda/sorta saw with the preceding books, but if you don't have it then it's problematic.

And let's be clear here: Daughters aren't "one of the strongest armies of 2.0". They've had builds that were strong, mainly centered around Khinerai or Melusai.

It's like saying "Idoneth is a strong book!" while ignoring that it's the Eel spam that is strong.

Also:
Cities might lack Endless Spells or scenery, but they do get benefits to Endless Spells.

Daughters builds were scented around Witch aelves and buffing them. Melusai based armies were also pretty strong, but it was Hag Nar armies with witch aelves backed up with lots of queens that was, and still is, one of the stronger powerbases.

Khinerai are freaking cool models but were never a power-play part of the force in the same way. Not weak, just not the somewhat broken/op level of power that witch aelves have/had. I think that the point cost adjustments have lowered their overall power, but didn't really disable it.


Regardless strength wasn't really a measure of 2.0 features. I agree there were some shifts in writing style and abiltiies that appeared steadily as the 2.0 battletomes evolved; however some of them have been errata'ed into the earlier books over time. Regardless those books are still very much 2.0 battletomes. They are VASTLY different to the earlier 1.0 and 1.5 Tomes that GW released (heck the 1.0 were just warscrolls and pretty much nothing else for rules).


Of course those earlier armies might see upgrade books or a second wave release of models; but overall they are still running modern and up to date rules for the 2.0 system. The only army that isn't now (or isn't soon now that we've two new announced books) is Seraphon.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
I haven't had any problems with them yet, and i have seen Mawtribes just eat them up as well. I'll try to get a few more games vs them before i make final judgement, but honestly i don't see them as a problem so far.

Is the save and minor healing really that big of a problem for many people?

You probably haven't been playing against a properly run Ossiarch army. Ossiarchs are one of those factions where if the controller does not know what he's doing they become very bad very quickly.

He doesn’t play Petrafex, but he has Katakros who does the same thing and gives them all +1 to hit and takes away your CP on a 4+ and his aura is huge and is 300pts less than Archaon. But he’s such a badass model that it seems such a shame for him not to use him.

While petrefex is a pain to fight, I’d still rather fight them than go up against a full crematorium spam army.

Arkhan, a couple of characters, pair of harvesters and blocks of guards become an issue very quickly when you are taking endless mortal wounds that you can’t avoid getting hit by.

These lists really are typical 1 trick ponies though.




One thing I’ve not really looked into though is ironjawz.
Been tinkering with the idea for a while now.
Been mainly looking at cantering a list around Gordrakk but never any more than that.
On paper he looks pretty good, but just wondering if anyone runs him for some proper info if possible.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
I haven't had any problems with them yet, and i have seen Mawtribes just eat them up as well. I'll try to get a few more games vs them before i make final judgement, but honestly i don't see them as a problem so far.

Is the save and minor healing really that big of a problem for many people?

You probably haven't been playing against a properly run Ossiarch army. Ossiarchs are one of those factions where if the controller does not know what he's doing they become very bad very quickly.

Nah, he knows how to play it, thats not a problem. We are playing a lot lately to practice for Adepticon, hoping to go 3 wins this year (2 wins last year) and we have 2 teams helping each other, so when someone makes a mistake we call them out on it.

From what I can see Ossiarchs can be broken if you can either stall them or work out their game plan and break it. Whilst they have some faster units and some speed-up abiltiies; by and large they are slow moving. If you can get ahead and stay ahead with objectives you can beat them that way; or if you can tarpit them even a single turn not moving is a pain for them.

That and learning things like avoiding Mortek and going for the Harvesters can also be a huge thorn in their side.

Taking down the Harvesters is crucial against a somewhat optimised Bonereapers list. Some armies can do that fairly easily, but others (with no or limited reliable shooting) are going to have a really bad time.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
I haven't had any problems with them yet, and i have seen Mawtribes just eat them up as well. I'll try to get a few more games vs them before i make final judgement, but honestly i don't see them as a problem so far.

Is the save and minor healing really that big of a problem for many people?

If you saw the game MWG posted, I wouldn't go by that. The Bonereaper player just crammed two starter-boxes together, and literally took the worst options in the book. :-p

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
I haven't had any problems with them yet, and i have seen Mawtribes just eat them up as well. I'll try to get a few more games vs them before i make final judgement, but honestly i don't see them as a problem so far.

Is the save and minor healing really that big of a problem for many people?

If you saw the game MWG posted, I wouldn't go by that. The Bonereaper player just crammed two starter-boxes together, and literally took the worst options in the book. :-p

No, i mean in real life, i haven't watched any Batreps on them yet.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
I haven't had any problems with them yet, and i have seen Mawtribes just eat them up as well. I'll try to get a few more games vs them before i make final judgement, but honestly i don't see them as a problem so far.

Is the save and minor healing really that big of a problem for many people?

If you saw the game MWG posted, I wouldn't go by that. The Bonereaper player just crammed two starter-boxes together, and literally took the worst options in the book. :-p

No, i mean in real life, i haven't watched any Batreps on them yet.

I wouldn’t call it minor healing. Maybe it’s just our meta, but bringing back 3 models for 4 units a turn with Katakros and the Bone shaper, and bringing back other models when they’re destroyed on a 4+ from the harvester means the dmg you struggle to do vs their 3+ re-rollable save and 6+ shrug, is typically negated quite ruthlessly.

Well, im used to other factions healing where 2-3 is minor compare to 9-30 lol.

Its small enough that if you kill 15 out of a 20block you you can deal with it next turn without trying, sometimes you leave 1 FeC or skeleton, or something else alive and now its back up to 20 with CP, spells, abilities, etc..

Yeah they have a 3+/6+++, even if it is re-roll, -2 to their save (I treat re-roll as a 2nd save in my head for easy math even tho its worst b.c they don't always get to have a full re-roll due to not re-rolling modifiers) is 5+/5+/6+++ thats equal to many other death units that are 5+/5+++/6+++ (or 5+/6+++/6+++, or even 5+ ignore -1rend, 6+++/6+++) but they are 1/2 the cost or heals twice as much and sometimes are doing both.

So for me the numbers ends up being the same other than they have less models on the table.

The difference is that those basic skeletons dont have a rerollable 3+ save. You're having to fight bitterly for every single wound. So 1 returned is worth a heck of a lot more.

 Stux wrote:
The difference is that those basic skeletons dont have a rerollable 3+ save. You're having to fight bitterly for every single wound. So 1 returned is worth a heck of a lot more.

B.c almost 90% the time its -2 to saves sometimes -3 if i can get a spell off, but a lot of the times 1 of them is a modifier (you can not re-roll mods) so its a 5+ that cant re-roll any 3, making it 5+/5+ then a 6+++ and its not always skeletons, many death units (Nighthaunt for example) are 2 saves but 4+ then a 6+++ is almost equal to w 5+ saves and a 6+

But again then you have the ability to bring back 2x or 3x the amount at times.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 Stux wrote:
The difference is that those basic skeletons dont have a rerollable 3+ save. You're having to fight bitterly for every single wound. So 1 returned is worth a heck of a lot more.

B.c almost 90% the time its -2 to saves sometimes -3 if i can get a spell off, but a lot of the times 1 of them is a modifier (you can not re-roll mods) so its a 5+ that cant re-roll any 3, making it 5+/5+ then a 6+++ and its not always skeletons, many death units (Nighthaunt for example) are 2 saves but 4+ then a 6+++ is almost equal to w 5+ saves and a 6+

But again then you have the ability to bring back 2x or 3x the amount at times.

What army do you use? My armies don’t get nearly that much rend on anything but 1-2 units.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 Stux wrote:
The difference is that those basic skeletons dont have a rerollable 3+ save. You're having to fight bitterly for every single wound. So 1 returned is worth a heck of a lot more.

B.c almost 90% the time its -2 to saves sometimes -3 if i can get a spell off, but a lot of the times 1 of them is a modifier (you can not re-roll mods) so its a 5+ that cant re-roll any 3, making it 5+/5+ then a 6+++ and its not always skeletons, many death units (Nighthaunt for example) are 2 saves but 4+ then a 6+++ is almost equal to w 5+ saves and a 6+

But again then you have the ability to bring back 2x or 3x the amount at times.

What army are you using that has this endless supply of -2 or better rend?
Generally it’s hero’s and monsters only, so short supply that can be killed off.

I play SoC and BoC, but my BoC has almost every unit i play with -1 or -2 and ways to give out -1 or even -2 (or -3).

For my BoC i play with 2 shamans, 2-3 Doombulls, or 1-2 DB and 1 BL, 50+ bestigors, and some Bullgors (I stopped playing EToD unless it is a tournament, then i use them over Bullgors). Then i have 2 ways to give out -1, most the time its always -2 at least. I love Doombulls and i can safety say theya re worth playing multiples now, having 1 with +2D and other other with extra rend helps too.

The Doombulls/Bullgors are is -2/3D, my relic i have to take is an addition -1/-2/-3 rend (addition -1 rend for every 10 models in a unit to a max of 3) so 1 of my Doombulls will be -3/-4 rend for 3D, the other DB is -2/5D, if both gets to swing its over for almost any horded base unit. Bestigors are -1 but i try to get the spell or stone onto something for an additional -1. , i try not to hit to hard until turn 2 and i am a 1 drop so i set it up for double turns, if i get it im golded, if not i still am good b.c i can move 12-15" and still charge.


My other army (that i'm taking to adepticon) is SoC, their rend is only -1, but it doesnt matter as its 15 Scourgerunner chariots, 40 Shadow Warriors, and 2 Hurricanum's. The 2 Hurricanum's are 3D3 MWs on a 2+, the chariots at least 2/3 of them will gain a +1 to hit buff, they all have 1 that also is a +1 to hit, and at least 3 units will be +1 to wound, they are -1 for D3, and 6's are instead D3 MW's. Its normally 10 D3 MW's if you cant kill any of the chariots or wound the 2 Hurricanum's on top of the 6 unsaved wounds vs them (ends up being a hard average 26 wounds to a unit of M Guard after all saves) and that is before the 2nd shooting profile and before the Shadow warriors. To be fair that list will be nerf and chariots will be 80/210 for 3 in the GH2020, the local IDK, OBR, Mawtribes, Orruks, wont play against it without me letting them tailor their lists. But i normally try to kill off important units first, as the chariots move very fast in TE and i can spend CP to move farther and still shoot.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
I play SoC and BoC, but my BoC has almost every unit i play with -1 or -2 and ways to give out -1 or even -2 (or -3).

For my BoC i play with 2 shamans, 2-3 Doombulls, or 1-2 DB and 1 BL, 50+ bestigors, and some Bullgors (I stopped playing EToD unless it is a tournament, then i use them over Bullgors). Then i have 2 ways to give out -1, most the time its always -2 at least. I love Doombulls and i can safety say theya re worth playing multiples now, having 1 with +2D and other other with extra rend helps too.

The Doombulls/Bullgors are is -2/3D, my relic i have to take is an addition -1/-2/-3 rend (addition -1 rend for every 10 models in a unit to a max of 3) so 1 of my Doombulls will be -3/-4 rend for 3D, the other DB is -2/5D, if both gets to swing its over for almost any horded base unit. Bestigors are -1 but i try to get the spell or stone onto something for an additional -1. , i try not to hit to hard until turn 2 and i am a 1 drop so i set it up for double turns, if i get it im golded, if not i still am good b.c i can move 12-15" and still charge.


My other army (that i'm taking to adepticon) is SoC, their rend is only -1, but it doesnt matter as its 15 Scourgerunner chariots, 40 Shadow Warriors, and 2 Hurricanum's. The 2 Hurricanum's are 3D3 MWs on a 2+, the chariots at least 2/3 of them will gain a +1 to hit buff, they all have 1 that also is a +1 to hit, and at least 3 units will be +1 to wound, they are -1 for D3, and 6's are instead D3 MW's. Its normally 10 D3 MW's if you cant kill any of the chariots or wound the 2 Hurricanum's on top of the 6 unsaved wounds vs them (ends up being a hard average 26 wounds to a unit of M Guard after all saves) and that is before the 2nd shooting profile and before the Shadow warriors. To be fair that list will be nerf and chariots will be 80/210 for 3 in the GH2020, the local IDK, OBR, Mawtribes, Orruks, wont play against it without me letting them tailor their lists. But i normally try to kill off important units first, as the chariots move very fast in TE and i can spend CP to move farther and still shoot.

So you don’t have masses of -2 or better rend as you stated?
BoC do have a good amount of rend depending on build.
Your other army, you talk about MW instead.
Tons of armies lack decent rend so saying “it’s easy, just use high rend” doesn’t really apply.
It’s like saying you have to just shoot something and assume every army has massed shooting.

If it were really as easy as spamming high rend units, no one would really have an issue against them.
Petrefex would just be considered good at that point rather than extreme.

The main issue is that rend, MW and shooting are all army dependent.
Some armies literally lack multiple of these, meaning they lose multiple viable ways of dealing with certain things.


This is the main reason that my moulder army is used for rogue trader style friendly tournaments. (That and the conversion potential makes them fun)