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Where is the points cost for obliterators, as 115ppm? Is it in the shadowspear? I checked the Chaos and vigilus ablaze faq, but it was not there..

I assume they are in the same place as castellans, so in the general FAQ.

For those that didn't read all the FAQ's, here is the rundown:

- The Castellan nerf. 100 point increase and a max of 4++ save is huge. They are still hella good, but now they're more manageable from an opponents perspective.

- FLY units can now charge over enemy units again, just not anything with a BUILDING keyword. Thank god for that change!

- AIRCRAFT (a new keyword for anything with the FLY keyword and a minimum move distance) now no longer blocks moving. As long as you don't end your movement on their base, you can move underneath them, so the old tactic with blocking a charge with a flyer is dead. (Heldrake is not affected by this, as it doens't have a minimum move requirement.)

- The beta bolter rule got removed from vehicles (except dreadnoughts and helbrutes). In addition Deathwatch lost it on their speciality ammo, which was WAY too good. Good changes overall, so hurricane bolter vehicles and 2+ to wound infantry doesn't murder the enemy at any given time.

- Orks got a nerf with the combining-units-stratagem, that is twofold. First off, it can only be used on Boyz now, so Lootahs are out. Secondly you have to do it before you set up units, that can deploy outside your zone (so no more infiltrate and combine for cheeky 60 boyz squad 12'' from the enemy.)

- Aeldar got a massive hit, with their psychic powers Doom, Guide and Jinx only being usable by Craftworld Aeldar units. No more debuffing enemies and unload with your Drukhari units. It only works on their own codex now.

- It now cost 2 CP to use the Assassin stratagem, where you include it in your normal detachment, you can only do it once per game (so no more 4 assassins in one list, unless you bring a whole detachment) and Fallen can no longer take assassins. No rule changes to the units themselves.

- Mental Onslaught is now passed on a 6, regardless of leadership values.

- Iron Grip from Imperial Knights is now passed on a 6, regardless of strength and toughness value.

From a chaos perspective, there are a few changes.

- Obliterators are back to 115 points. I was hoping they would meet in the middle, so don't expect to see many Obliterators anymore. 115 points is way too expensive.

- You can now only take 3 Daemon princes, regardless of what codex they are from. You can summon in though, to break the rule of 3. (it is even specifically stated that you can do this).

- The new renegade legions now have god-specific tags attached to them. Nurgle for Purge, Tzeentch for Scourged, Slaanesh for Flawless Host and Khorne for Brazen. No more Slaanesh Purge units.

- Legion traits now affect Characters, Infantry, Bikes and Helbrutes. This means that Juggerlord, Discsorcerer, etc. and Lord Discordant now have legion trait.

- The Voice of Lorgar warlord trait now also applies to Dark Apostles prayers. So you get +3'' to their effects.

- The Curzed Crozius and Black Mace can replace both a Powermaul and the new crozius weapon that Dark Apostles have.

Overall, not too shabby! I am happy with most of the changes and they do make sense. I might have missed some parts, but for me these are the key takeaways.

 Spreelock wrote:
Where is the points cost for obliterators, as 115ppm? Is it in the shadowspear? I checked the Chaos and vigilus ablaze faq, but it was not there..

Check CSM again. It is not in magenta.

No clarification on "army" for Renegade Traits. Not that it mattered, everyone was just ignoring the line that said your army needs to be taken from a Renegade Chapter so they can keep doing the Heretical 17. Yet these same people were arguing that RAW oblits were 65 because of the latest book. Funny how min/maxers selectively pick what RAW they apply.

Well, my LRC back to my display case.

My DW bikers no more a must in.

Now assault squads are a bit more usable.

I was hopping get Chapter Tactics on Vehicles.

Wayniac wrote:
No clarification on "army" for Renegade Traits. Not that it mattered, everyone was just ignoring the line that said your army needs to be taken from a Renegade Chapter so they can keep doing the Heretical 17. Yet these same people were arguing that RAW oblits were 65 because of the latest book. Funny how min/maxers selectively pick what RAW they apply.

You have an American flag next to your name, so you must know that reading is un-American. Are you implying filthy communist readers are in our midst?

Thanks Nordicus!

I don't fully understand the implications of Ork strategum nerf, but less deepstrike shenanigans sounds like a game improvement. I thought mob up could only be used on boyz anyway tbh!

 Dysartes wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:
My Shining Spears have been shelved from 2nd editions when I bought them up until I decided to try them again in 8th.

You bought Shining Spears in 2nd edition? What sort of conversion did you do, as they weren't released as a kit until 3rd edition (metal add-on to the plastic jetbike, IIRC).

 Xenomancers wrote:
There is no way the FAQ is released this month at this point...If by some miracle it is - what exactly was the logic behind releasing it mid week on the very last day of april? Other than procrastination?

Nothing wrong with the occasional bit of procrastination.

OHHHHH SNAP lying eldar player EXPOSED point about Shining Spears only ever having been good in one single edition of 40k COMPLETELY INVALIDATED fake news CONFIRMED!!!

 Kroem wrote:
Thanks Nordicus!

I don't fully understand the implications of Ork strategum nerf, but less deepstrike shenanigans sounds like a game improvement. I thought mob up could only be used on boyz anyway tbh!

From what I understand, some would infiltrate some boyz of some kind in the deployment and the first action they did, was to use the stratagem. Then they could merge them at the infiltrated units location, effectively being 12'' away from the opponent turn one, before movement.

I personally haven't seen it, but it sounds nasty!

 Nordicus wrote:

 Kroem wrote:
Thanks Nordicus!

I don't fully understand the implications of Ork strategum nerf, but less deepstrike shenanigans sounds like a game improvement. I thought mob up could only be used on boyz anyway tbh!

From what I understand, some would infiltrate some boyz of some kind in the deployment and the first action they did, was to use the stratagem. Then they could merge them at the infiltrated units location, effectively being 12'' away from the opponent turn one, before movement.

I personally haven't seen it, but it sounds nasty!

Mostly 2nd turn only, but you could get shorter charges on large deepstriking units.

Common example would've been a small unit of Stormboyz in a Battlewaggon or so. They run up, advance and all and get within, say 4" of an enemy unit. Then the 30 Stormboyz deepstrike behind it and Mob Up with the unit just 4" away. Voila, 4" charge (before bonuses, etc..) from deepstrike.

Sounds like GW found a very clear and light-handed way to say "Well, that's bs" to a wide array of stupid things people found ways to do.

 Nordicus wrote:
- The Castellan nerf. 100 point increase and a max of 4++ save is huge. They are still hella good, but now they're more manageable from an opponents perspective.

*Looks at Danish flag on profile*
*Looks at northern Californian slang*

w1zard wrote:

 Nordicus wrote:
- The Castellan nerf. 100 point increase and a max of 4++ save is huge. They are still hella good, but now they're more manageable from an opponents perspective.

*Looks at Danish flag on profile*
*Looks at northern Californian slang*

Ha! I lived for a couple of years in LA. Some things just stick with you.

 Nordicus wrote:

 Kroem wrote:
Thanks Nordicus!

I don't fully understand the implications of Ork strategum nerf, but less deepstrike shenanigans sounds like a game improvement. I thought mob up could only be used on boyz anyway tbh!

From what I understand, some would infiltrate some boyz of some kind in the deployment and the first action they did, was to use the stratagem. Then they could merge them at the infiltrated units location, effectively being 12'' away from the opponent turn one, before movement.

I personally haven't seen it, but it sounds nasty!

No, nothing like that. The mob up changes targeted two things:
- Loota bomb. Having 25 lootas benefit from always hitting and generating extra shots on 5+ and shooting twice that could all be protected by a single grot shield was extremely powerful, now only available for 15 lootas. Still strong, but no longer bonkers.
- Dragging reserves into combat. If you had a unit of boyz (MANz, nobz) really close to the enemy, you could mob them up with a unit that just arrived from reserves to shorten the 9" charge. Nothing about turn 1 anything, orks just have regular deep strikes which ara not allowed before turn 2. Not really powerful, so it probably just got the axe for being unintended and counter-intuitive.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Nordicus wrote:

 Kroem wrote:
Thanks Nordicus!

I don't fully understand the implications of Ork strategum nerf, but less deepstrike shenanigans sounds like a game improvement. I thought mob up could only be used on boyz anyway tbh!

From what I understand, some would infiltrate some boyz of some kind in the deployment and the first action they did, was to use the stratagem. Then they could merge them at the infiltrated units location, effectively being 12'' away from the opponent turn one, before movement.

I personally haven't seen it, but it sounds nasty!

No, nothing like that. The mob up changes targeted two things:
- Loota bomb. Having 25 lootas benefit from always hitting and generating extra shots on 5+ and shooting twice that could all be protected by a single grot shield was extremely powerful, now only available for 15 lootas. Still strong, but no longer bonkers.
- Dragging reserves into combat. If you had a unit of boyz (MANz, nobz) really close to the enemy, you could mob them up with a unit that just arrived from reserves to shorten the 9" charge. Nothing about turn 1 anything, orks just have regular deep strikes which ara not allowed before turn 2. Not really powerful, so it probably just got the axe for being unintended and counter-intuitive.

Pretty much this, I don't think the Loota bomb was broken to begin with though. 17pt model capable of on average 2 shots hitting on 5s. Honestly, this just means to me that Lootas need a price drop since we can't castle them up into 25 squads and shoot twice with dakka on 5s. Realistically they are priced based on using 2 2CP strats a turn, so now that they are limited to 15 loota squads they need a price cut.

As for the unintended consequence of nerfing Mob up....yup, but realistically it was never used except on Lootas anyway. Occasionally you would use it on boyz squads but even then rarely because it was usually better to keep them separated so you could use Green Tide on one of them when they got reduced.

Honestly, this just removes the Orkz ability to play at the top tables and giving the Castellan 100pt cost increase doesn't matter to us.

At least a max squad of Tankbustas that jump in can actually put some hurt (and potentially double bracket it) on a 4++ Knight now.

SemperMortis wrote:Pretty much this, I don't think the Loota bomb was broken to begin with though. 17pt model capable of on average 2 shots hitting on 5s. Honestly, this just means to me that Lootas need a price drop since we can't castle them up into 25 squads and shoot twice with dakka on 5s. Realistically they are priced based on using 2 2CP strats a turn, so now that they are limited to 15 loota squads they need a price cut.

Realistically, bad moon lootas just using the shoot twice stratagem blow index KMB right out of the water efficiency wise, and those were awesome. The efficiency of single lootas doesn't drop just because there are less of them.

Honestly, this just removes the Orkz ability to play at the top tables and giving the Castellan 100pt cost increase doesn't matter to us.

Many top table lists have already dropped lootas and done very well, while 15 lootas with more dakka shooting twice are still great.

BaconCatBug wrote:At least a max squad of Tankbustas that jump in can actually put some hurt (and potentially double bracket it) on a 4++ Knight now.

You might want to do the math on that before making such tall statements.

You bought Shining Spears in 2nd edition? What sort of conversion did you do, as they weren't released as a kit until 3rd edition (metal add-on to the plastic jetbike, IIRC).

3rd then, still, they've been more or less shelved since I got them.