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 Orlanth wrote:
Angst surges and joke comments not withstanding I would like to add my pennies worth as to why Atlantic should make WW2 Germans.

Like others have said Third Reich forces are the space marines of historical plastics, though they should share that with Napoleonic French. Making either is a good idea as they are gateway products, just like space marines are. A plastic boxset of Wehrmacht grenadiers is all it takes, it would be nice to give the kit purpose and add more with heavy weapons officers etc.

I'd rather they finally do this for the Raumjagers. The not!-Armageddon Steel Legion needs them just as much as the not!-Death Korps of Krieg/Vostroyans.

Marines are overrepresented and always have been.
Other factions don't sell as well as Marines, because GW doesn't give them support anywhere close to Marines.
No matter how angry you get you won't change the fact these things are facts.

Somebody doesn't know what the word "fact" means.

 judgedoug wrote:

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
Well, I only know of Artizan who make panzer lehr figures in 28mm, and those are metal. Though one could make the argument that maybe they aren't popular/desired enough, or that there weren't historically enough of them, to justify a plastic kit. Sure, it also makes regular tank crew, but again how many of those would you need? But there weren't a huge number of british riflemen, or a lot of battle with french partisans, and they made those.

plastic Panzer Lehr is _fantastic_ news, as yeah, Artizan is the only company I know of that makes just-okay Panzer Lehr (and only a dozen sculpts or so).

The Panzer Lehr fought at several major engagements (Caen, Ardennes/Bulge/Bastogne, etc) and were exceedingly well-equipped - finally justifying people's panzergrenadier armies with all-half tracks and Panthers. The fact that they had different uniforms and jackets from all the other German troops has made it nearly impossible for basically all of wargaming history to represent them in 28mm (other than the limited selection of Artizan poses). The battles they fought in are some of the most exciting of the late war western front against American and British troops and they often fought to the bitter end, making these guys PERFECT for all of us WW2 scenario players.

They were also the protagonists of the last good Company of Heroes game:



If I were to buy the WGA Lehr, I'd paint them just like that, for purely nostalgic reasons.

 Albino Squirrel wrote:

Marines are overrepresented and always have been.
Other factions don't sell as well as Marines, because GW doesn't give them support anywhere close to Marines.
No matter how angry you get you won't change the fact these things are facts.

Somebody doesn't know what the word "fact" means.

According to Merriam-Webster, a piece of information presented as having objective reality. And Marines being overrepresented is objective reality, as they're one faction out of around twenty, but they've been getting around 30% of the releases for a very long time.

Please let's not talk about Space Marines in this thread. Of all the threads on Dakka, this really isn't the one where those are remotely relevant.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
This feels kind of like the Sister arguments all over again. We have to make more space marines (WW2 minis) because we know they sell, but this one tiny niche armor mark hasn’t been ported over to plastic yet. Sisters of Battle, Eldar, IG, and all the other stuff (Sci fi kits, historical kits that aren’t WW2, Napoleonics or Romans) can wait because no one buys them when we aren’t making them.

Fortunately, WA has Boxers and Aztecs coming. Hopefully the sales numbers will be big enough to encourage them to explore more times and places.
How did the Lizardmen sell? I had the impression they were pretty successful.

While I agree that some of the well-trodden paths are not the most interesting, I feel it's a bit disingenuous to list those oversaturated ranges as "WW2, Napoleonics or Romans". I have little interest in the former two, but it's clear that only certain nations are vastly overrepresented while others have no or few models available to them, let alone in plastic. In a way, it makes more sense to release something that fills a gap in that range than to create a single plastic set for a period where nobody else makes anything. Though I'd like to see them, a plastic set for Trojan-era Greek chariots wouldn't be much use without accompanying infantry and Trojan opponents. Additionally, saying "Romans" are overdone feels odd considering the vast timespan they cover. As far as I'm aware, the upcoming 3rd-4th Century Romans from WA would have different helmets, armour, clothing, shields and weapons from the various periods covered by Victrix or Warlord Games. It's like saying there is no need for plastic WW2 French because there are already so many French Napoleonics!

Would the Trojan-era Greeks be from the late Bronze Age? If WGA released than and the Trojans, they could expand to the Sea Peoples, Egyptians, etc. and have a whole time period to themselves instead of hoping enough people were just waiting for a specific jacket cut on their Nazis or slightly different (I said it) Romans. It might be a risk opening up a whole untapped historical period, but the rewards if they succeed would surely be better than trying to chip away at Victrix or Warlord’s domination of their chosen periods.

I’m really frustrated with how stagnant historical Wargames feel.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For another GW anecdote, I remember for years the debate among WHFB fans whether GW should start a new faction and create some new ideas to get new blood, or whether they should focus on the same old same old until the existing armies were complete, done and balanced. Those last guys won, and WHFB died. AOS gave the market new things, new factions, and has steadily increased in sales and relevance beyond anything WHFB achieved in its last decade of existence.

At least when it comes to Romans, there were a few different looks that the armies had over the centuries they were doing things.

My hope is the late stuff could almost double for generic dark age figures if given some proper heads and shield options.

WW2 stuff seems like one of those bread and butter mainstay type kits if it's done up to standards (of which I'm sure WGA is going to make sure it is). I may not have much use for it but I'm sure they'll see action across a ton of game systems.

Yeah to be honest theres a much higher difference in the aesthetics and composition of republican 200 BC roman hastatti, princeps and triari , 100 BC post-Marian reform legionaries, 400 AC west roman empire late troops, and lets not even enter into eastern romans, than WW2 troopers, a 6 year long war in a day and age were uniforms between nations were, by the most part, extremely similar.

But people loves their WW2.


But we really really need good plastic egypt kits. Bronze Age early kingdom infantry, High Egypt Numidian dinasties, Low Egypt ones, Ptolemaic ones, more conan-like fantasy egyptians, no matter. All are good options.

The problem is... theres a market for them? Is harder to sell miniatures for periods that have no games to use them into.

 Galas wrote:
Yeah to be honest theres a much higher difference in the aesthetics and composition of republican 200 BC roman hastatti, princeps and triari , 100 BC post-Marian reform legionaries, 400 AC west roman empire late troops, and lets not even enter into eastern romans, than WW2 troopers, a 6 year long war in a day and age were uniforms between nations were, by the most part, extremely similar.

But people loves their WW2.


But we really really need good plastic egypt kits. Bronze Age early kingdom infantry, High Egypt Numidian dinasties, Low Egypt ones, Ptolemaic ones, more conan-like fantasy egyptians, no matter. All are good options.

The problem is... theres a market for them? Is harder to sell miniatures for periods that have no games to use them into.

Clearly we need WW2 Romans.

So Axis Italians?

Not that it's totally relevant, but last I checked, AOS certainly gave us a whole lot more factions than the last few years of WFB ever gave us.

There were certainly some neat stuff released towards the end, but they all filled niches in existing armies.

The problem of saying that WHFB died because WHFB , ignores that AOS was a dead game at launch and GW was also killing 40k in those years.

The dead of WHFB was 100% GW's fault. Nothing inherently with the setting, or the system, or the fanbase. (And I say this as someone that thinks GW's playerbase right now is much, much more healthier than the one it had 15 years ago, but maybe thats more to do with "geek" stuff becoming more mainstream, and people becoming more mature, and socially inept behaviours being less tolerated.)

@Orlanth, very well said.

 lord_blackfang wrote:


I am happy to inform you WA already makes not one but two versions of Space Germans

But what about my Cold War turns hot Germans?

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
@Orlanth, very well said.

 lord_blackfang wrote:


I am happy to inform you WA already makes not one but two versions of Space Germans

But what about my Cold War turns hot Germans?

Then you'll need to kitbash those with Warlord Games biker chick sprues

I'm not a historical gamer, but this new Panzer Lehr box gets my attention because of all the variety in the bits. I could definitely find more uses for this than the bog standard WW2 infantry platoon.

So yeah, there's lots of WW2 German kits out there, but I haven't seen one quite like this before.

I have to agree, you make the easy sales so you can afford to take risks on weirder things down the road.

Panzer Lehr are distinct enough to warrant a kit IMO, those minis can pull double duty with some conversion work as 40k guard or as any number of alt-history/weird ww2 style troops due to their variation from the typical german uniform, etc. and they aren't a unit that is already covered in plastic by 3 different manufacturers.

So next week for the new poll then do we think?

Today for new poll!

https://wargamesatlantic.com/blogs/news/heat-2-starts-now-heat-2-round-1


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh noooo, looks like the Nobody-knows-what-the-submitter-even-meant-Hussars didn't make it

Well i'm interested in absolutely none of those.

A somewhat dismal showing for this new heat.

I see too many things already covered by other companies... but that seems to the conversation we were just having about WW2 Germans.

I'd be down for a box of cavemen, maybe more especially if they converted well into shaggy barbarian types.

Werewolves and Neanderthals/Cavemen got my vote.

Although to be honest I'm only interested in the werewolves if they come with interesting heads and aren't all wearing tattered pants...

Plastic neanderthals... That would be just what I need.

No love for Zapatistas? or WWI Ottomans

The bandits should go well with the gunfighters. I’m also in for Neanderthals. Werewolves exist in some forms, but I’m assuming WA will give them some nice Sci fi or fantasy options.

Female partisans should be something WA releases anyway, without having to rely in a vote.

Can't see Heat 1 entries anymore and I don't really remember what was where and what dropped out, but there's plenty of entries that are "pretty cool" here. I voted for 8 or 9 of the 15. A pox on everyone who wants more generic dwarfs tho and on their kids and pets too.

This round doesn't interest me much. Just Female Partisans and Multi-species aliens. Still unlimited votes though. As for the Ottomans, I'll wait for the 13-15th century kit (assuming it made the cut).

Well

My votes:
Landsknecht ogres- my first choice!!
Landsknecht - the warlord ones are small and I don’t love them. Though I do have 2 boxes
Werewolves- I have uses for these
Female partisans- I don’t have a use but more females the better.

I would buy all of these though.., it’s a shame that there can be only one!

Huh, a lot of good choices made it in, including Landsknecht Ogres, which were probably my favorite of the things I didn't come up with that was on the list.

Not too fond of WW1 Ottomans, that kind of leaves the same ill taste in my mouth as WW2 Germans...

I am happy that classic fantasy trolls made it through to the second round. I added them alongside dwarves, werewolves and kobolds

Not really terribly excited about these concepts just from the names. A multi-species alien kit could be awesome or terrible. Werewolves are potentially interesting, but easy to screw up. Cavemen could be cool, but are they going to be distinct enough from Frostgrave's tribals to be worth it? Female resistance at least offer some options for pulp-era roleplaying if they aren't too specifically WW2 (e.g. all toting MP-40s), especially if they come with a good range of non-weapon hands.

Wow, only stinkers in the first round
Guess all the good stuff is still to come.
Went with Landsknechts, but that was a pure best-of-the-worst decision.