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IF you are going to end up having a minority or disenfrachised group as a character.......you should hire an actor that is that group
Or you end up with situations where you have a ciswome portraying a transwomen, when that could have gone to some one who is actually trans.
Or it can lead to people thinking "Well just like this actor is pretending to be a lesbian, so are other lesbians" which i have seen, where people actually think that lesbianism is an act/phase

 Compel wrote:
It's a little more complicated than that.

Broadly speaking, minority roles are rare in Hollywood, especially in comparison to the the makeup of the CWs markets.

And you simply just don't get a better makeup and mix without providing visible rolemodels when the opportunity arises.

Seeing an out LGBT+ actor playing an out LGBT+ character ultimately encourages more LGBT+ actors to be their authentic selves, and therefore, better actors, because they're not having to act as a character while acting as a public persona while having to pretend to be straight. - That's a lot of brainpower that's being used which could be used perfecting their craft.

Ultimately, it's good for the long term benefit of their business.

You know they are actually over-represented, right? In 2015 GLAAD analysed the film releases of seven major film studios and their affiliates and found that out of 161 movies released in 2014, 25 featured characters with non-traditional sexual preferences such as homosexuality or bisexuality – a total of 15.5 percent. The major film studios were more likely to feature gay characters – nearly 18 percent of their films did so, compared to just 11 percent of those released by their smaller, “indie”-style affiliates.

Considering a 2015 Gallup poll found that only 3.4 percent of the U.S. population identifies as homosexual, lesbian, bisexual or transgender, the number of films featuring homosexual characters would seem to be inordinately large. https://www.glaad.org/sri/2015


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 hotsauceman1 wrote:
IF you are going to end up having a minority or disenfrachised group as a character.......you should hire an actor that is that group
Or you end up with situations where you have a ciswome portraying a transwomen, when that could have gone to some one who is actually trans.
Or it can lead to people thinking "Well just like this actor is pretending to be a lesbian, so are other lesbians" which i have seen, where people actually think that lesbianism is an act/phase

Do you not know what acting is? Do you hire a murderer to play a murderer in a movie? Do you hire an actual spy to play James Bond?

Dude.....that is such a weak argument and you know it.
Its about how LGBT are underepresented in media, so if you are going to have someone play someone who is that you hire someone.
just like if you need an asian character, you dont hire a white guy to just play them or a black actor to play a black guy.
Also how many of those actors are playing someone who is LGBT+?

gotta agree with BCB that kind of thinking would have denied us Rob Lowe in Behind the Candalabra, and got that Scarlett Johansson film canned

but if we need an well off unstable bisexual who likes a scrap for a new Batlass I think Johnny might be able to give us some input...

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Dude.....that is such a weak argument and you know it.
Its about how LGBT are underepresented in media, so if you are going to have someone play someone who is that you hire someone.
just like if you need an asian character, you dont hire a white guy to just play them or a black actor to play a black guy.
Also how many of those actors are playing someone who is LGBT+?

And if you need a Ginger character, you hire a black actor! Or does it only work one way? Call me old fashioned, but you should hire people on their merit, their ability to do the job.

I don't think we're quite there yet, I think we need a little positive discrimination in some walks of life to ensure equity before we reach equality.

However, in terms of LGTBQ and the entertainment industry? Not so much.

I'm not saying that the whole industry is equal and that nobody ever got discriminated against for being a minority, but I think as a whole they're further down the road than some, possibly most.

So I think hiring the best actor for the role should be the thing, and declaring you're going to hire a gay actor before you've apparently started recruitment might even be litigable.

But the optics for The CW's main demographic is good, and that's the real reason driving it.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Dude.....that is such a weak argument and you know it.
Its about how LGBT are underepresented in media, so if you are going to have someone play someone who is that you hire someone.
just like if you need an asian character, you dont hire a white guy to just play them or a black actor to play a black guy.
Also how many of those actors are playing someone who is LGBT+?

And if you need a Ginger character, you hire a black actor!

Spoiler:

Or does it only work one way? Call me old fashioned, but you should hire people on their merit, their ability to do the job.

Sigh.........
When you take a minority character and make them not their minority(Typically you make them white, and a straight guy, and Cis) you are decreasing diversity
When you take a White character(Or Non LGBTQ character) and make them a Minority, you are INCREASING diversity
And yes you are being old fashioned, Old fashioned where "Ability to do the Job" is a dog whistle for "I dont think Minorites can do any job"

Don't put words in his mouth.

Especially not those words.

I have seen enough people say "I just want who is good enouogh for the job to get it" as nothing more than a cover for racist/bigoted tendencies. Even if it is not intended that way, the phrase itselt comes up no matter what whenever diversity casting is mentioned. It is not a coincidence.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Don't put words in his mouth.

Especially not those words.

Agreed!

You guys are going to Third Rail this thread right out of existence.

The "General CW Arrowverse discussion" thread no less!

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I have seen enough people say "I just want who is good enouogh for the job to get it" as nothing more than a cover for racist/bigoted tendencies. Even if it is not intended that way, the phrase itselt comes up no matter what whenever diversity casting is mentioned. It is not a coincidence.

So what you're saying is that because you've seen some people say a thing and mean another thing, you're automatically assuming that everyone else who says anything similar holds the same beliefs?

 Alpharius wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Don't put words in his mouth.

Especially not those words.

Agreed!

You guys are going to Third Rail this thread right out of existence.

The "General CW Arrowverse discussion" thread no less!

Fair enough
As to another thing I really didnt like about these batches of seasons

Especially Flash and to a Lesser extent super girl, the two halve(Before and After Crisis) felt totally disconnected and useless.
I feel crisis should have maybe have been like the opener for all of them.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Dude.....that is such a weak argument and you know it.
Its about how LGBT are underepresented in media, so if you are going to have someone play someone who is that you hire someone.
just like if you need an asian character, you dont hire a white guy to just play them or a black actor to play a black guy.
Also how many of those actors are playing someone who is LGBT+?

And if you need a Ginger character, you hire a black actor!

Spoiler:

Or does it only work one way? Call me old fashioned, but you should hire people on their merit, their ability to do the job.

Sigh.........
When you take a minority character and make them not their minority(Typically you make them white, and a straight guy, and Cis) you are decreasing diversity
When you take a White character(Or Non LGBTQ character) and make them a Minority, you are INCREASING diversity
And yes you are being old fashioned, Old fashioned where "Ability to do the Job" is a dog whistle for "I dont think Minorites can do any job"

I could turn that around and say you simply dog whistling XYZ Race aren't good enough to get jobs on merit, the Soft Bigotry of Low Expectations.

But you won't, because we're trying to collectively pull up and not fly into the mountain, right?

 Azreal13 wrote:
But you won't, because we're trying to collectively pull up and not fly into the mountain, right?

pfft we are way up the clouds, admittedly its a bit odd that one has a ski-lift....

Flash is moving to what they call a 'graphic novel' setup for the seasons, not having a single season long villain and instead just telling their story however long it takes.

And, to be honest, I think it's a really good idea. I think it provides for more focused stories where things aren't dragged out for... Ev.... Er and let's us explore more villains more deeply but having a definite end to their story

Well it'll hopefully mitigate the whole idea of establishing the threat, then maintaining a narrative stress position on whichever character has been marked out for imminent danger™ this season for 12 episodes before the power of friendship® pulls everyone together and allows them to triumph in the final few shows.

 Compel wrote:
Flash is moving to what they call a 'graphic novel' setup for the seasons, not having a single season long villain and instead just telling their story however long it takes.

And, to be honest, I think it's a really good idea. I think it provides for more focused stories where things aren't dragged out for... Ev.... Er and let's us explore more villains more deeply but having a definite end to their story

See, i liked the season long villains, the problem was with villains like "The Thinker" in which they won only because it wasn't their time to lose yet.
There where not victories over him, just, losses
Cicada did it nicely IMO because why had their wins and losses against them. With one Major win.
IDK if im going to like the change,
IMO, of all the shows(Barring Legends) had their best line ups during the first 2 or so seasons. Yes they had their Season long villains, but they didn't become a big deal/worked in the shadows, until the end. This allowed for more episodic story telling, but with an overarching story. Meta/Alien/Other Dude of the day
Recent episodes/seasons are all tied together.
IDK, im just worried if flash goes from villain every like 5 episodes, it might make the seasons feel disjointed. That is how part one vs part two felt.

 Compel wrote:
Flash is moving to what they call a 'graphic novel' setup for the seasons, not having a single season long villain and instead just telling their story however long it takes.

Moving to? Already done with Bloodwork and then Mirror Master (but that last one got mucked up 'cause'a COVID).

I like the little self-contained smaller stories. Agents of SHIELD did that during one season, where they had 3 "pods" as they called them - the 'Ghostrider' pod, the LMD pod, and the VR Hydra future POD - and it worked really well. Allowed them to tell complete stories without dragging a single thread out over 22 episodes.

Some shows don't need that kind of thing - Legends and Black Lightning have generally shorter, more focused* season. Arrow has always needed fewer episodes, the exception (IMO) being Season 2 where they had an extra episode for 23 episodes, which was necessary to give breathing room after the shocking death of Moira Queen. Flash could live to be shorter, and Supergirl has a tendency to drag things out (even if their last two season, not counting the most recent one, have easily been the show's strongest).

I understand why TV shows are 22 episodes, but it would be better if they were shorter.

*Or as focused as Legends can manage; that show is wild!

I find focussing on Legends fairly simple for Lotz of reasons

Be interesting to see if the new format pays off, the 20ep and change runs do appear to tread water a bit, then again part of that might be having grown up with UK telly when anything over 8 is/was unusual

Good news everyone! The Twitter mob have cancelled an Arrowverse actor for incredibly mild comments he made nearly a decade ago.

That's right, Hartley Sawyer, aka The Flash's Elongated Man, has been fired for flagrantly racist tweets made 8 years ago. Behold the sheer vileness of his actions in all their magnitude:

"The only thing keeping me from doing mildly racist tweets is the knowledge that Al Sharpton would never stop complaining about me."

The horror! The horror.





Twitter just needs to fething die.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Good news everyone! The Twitter mob have cancelled an Arrowverse actor for incredibly mild comments he made nearly a decade ago.

That's right, Hartley Sawyer, aka The Flash's Elongated Man, has been fired for flagrantly racist tweets made 8 years ago. Behold the sheer vileness of his actions in all their magnitude:

"The only thing keeping me from doing mildly racist tweets is the knowledge that Al Sharpton would never stop complaining about me."

The horror! The horror.





Twitter just needs to fething die.

I mean, the CW and the actors who work for them made their bed, now they get to sleep in it.

Hartley Sawyer fired over old racist tweets

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/hartley-sawyer-fired-flash-misogynist-tweets-surface-1297483
There goes one of the best characters still.
Flash looks to be shaping up to slow down and crash soon.

You were ninja'd.

Except his twets where way worse than what was said, saying things about abusingwomen and dogs.
Dude literally said he would beat his wife if he had one
https://twitter.com/skaijackson/status/1269017350730211329/photo/2
and here is more
https://mlpnk72yciwc.i.optimole.com/cqhiHLc-NUJJdijA/w:auto/h:auto/q:75/https://bleedingcool.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/sawyertweets.jpg

Secret ladys lumps ? Like I wasnt already baffled by the form and now I find out theres secret bits

but silly man, any chance we can get Dogwelder to replace him

I mean, if there is anyone you can do an actore replacement with, its Ralph dipney. Just say he is somehow locked in a new form.
BUT! its is not going to be the same, he was the last actually fun guy one there and when he was with other Characters he would actually be fun.
But like, now what? you got perpetual sad face Barry, "MUH FAMILY" Iris, Killer Frost is actually fun, but too little than her, Mr Hates His Life and perpetually miserable Cisco. And whatever lame concept for a Wells they can think of.
If i wrote Crisis, i would have had earth 2 wells come back with his memories restored.
Not to mention all the other side characters they can bring in thaat dont get enough time(They introduced like 2 this season)

To be fair, after those tweets, if it turned out he was a real life Dogwelder, I wouldn't be surprised...

In saying that, it does feel slightly hypocritical considering what Warner have done with James Gunn...

Personally I'm kind of hoping there's more to it, such as them asking him to explain / apologise for the statements and refusing... Or a continued pattern of behaviour.

I can kinda start thinking that maybe the Arrowverse did end with Arrow after all...

I mean, if so, its not a bad run of like, 6-7 years of a shared universe.
And it seems like, they MIGHT be kinda seeing the writing on the wall with them setting shows in other Earths, therefore not really needing to cross over but still "There" kinda. And with earth prime believing they are they only ones left, no reason for them to go to other earths.
The problem always is ending a show. Melissa Benoit has 2 more seasons atleast, so its douptful if she stays because she has a kid on the way i think it will likely end at that. It seems Flash is running out of steam and legends, as silly as it is, its quickly becoming the Agents of Shield of it, where its technically part of the universe, but is so wholly detached it doesn't matter

So, as is obvious to anyone with 3/8 of a brain, he confirmed in his apology that they were intended as jokes.

It's z list material, yes, but only intended as humour. From nearly a decade ago.