Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

No it's white knighting if I say "GW IS GENIUS BY DESIGNING THESE RULES LIKE THIS" saying "It could be they're deliberatly trying to ensure the chapter rules in white dwarf are specialist and intreasting but not mathamicly superior specificly to avoid making a limited avaliability magazine a must buy"

likewise the "you don't have to use these CTs" is GW providing cover to someone who just gets into 40k and paints up a blood ravens army 6 months from now, can't track down a back issue and runs into "that guy" who insists that he can't play his army unless he uses rules in a codex he doesn't have" There is a differance between white knighting and taking a stab at guessing "what the feth was the intent here?"

BrianDavion wrote:
No it's white knighting if I say "GW IS GENIUS BY DESIGNING THESE RULES LIKE THIS" saying "It could be they're deliberatly trying to ensure the chapter rules in white dwarf are specialist and intreasting but not mathamicly superior specificly to avoid making a limited avaliability magazine a must buy"

likewise the "you don't have to use these CTs" is GW providing cover to someone who just gets into 40k and paints up a blood ravens army 6 months from now, can't track down a back issue and runs into "that guy" who insists that he can't play his army unless he uses rules in a codex he doesn't have" There is a differance between white knighting and taking a stab at guessing "what the feth was the intent here?"

My apologies then I missed the invisible could and just saw what you wrote “it means they deliberately wrote fun fluffy rules that power games wou;dn't have any intreast in” as such you can see why I thought you were defending the rules by saying they were intentionally gak.

As for not mathematically superior that’s a minor understatement to say the least, mathematically in a bubble I guess that’s true but the real issue with them is that in most games there never going to trigger unless you run up against a lot of super heavies or I guess massed plasma fire but then only if fired overcharged.

The Chapter Tactics are just mathematically,statistically and pretty much categorically bad even without comparison to other marine CT’s and honestly any type of defending them is pretty much just trying to defend gakky rule writing.

When are you NOT facing either a bunch of plasmas, enemy mechs punching face, smash captains going ham, stomping knights and/or to-wound modifiers on S5 weapons?

If you run primaris or termis then-some defense against the S8 weapons out there DOES help.
Even if not, it helps against stuff like VotLW
And at the very least, it makes knight stomps hurt less.

Things wounding your dudes on 2+ comes up more often than most people realize.
And against anything wounding on 2+, its a straight upgrade over iron hands. add that to a pretty darn good psyker bonus-and you get a trait that is overall nice albit situational.

true I mean the way some people talk you'd think every unit in the game carried a plasma gun

BrianDavion wrote:
or it means they deliberately wrote fun fluffy rules that power games wou;dn't have any intreast in to avoid cries of white dwarf pay to win. which is TBH a pretty fair thing considering it can be hard to track down back issues.

Funny how that never stopped FW, their books and models being full of pay to win junk despite being far harder to acquire and far more expensive to buy. When half of your company output is broken garbage to the point tournament SM/CSM list consist of six FW dreadnought models, it's kind of hard to believe in them suddenly loving fluff.

And WD is not even that hard to acquire, I see dozens of online shops in my country carrying them, old issues too, and we're on fringes of target market...

 BoomWolf wrote:
And against anything wounding on 2+, its a straight upgrade over iron hands. add that to a pretty darn good psyker bonus-and you get a trait that is overall nice albit situational.

Mind explaining to us how 1/6 bump of survival rate that triggers on like 3% of wounds is better than 1/6 bump of survival rate that works all the time?

Not to mention IH one being vastly superior in that it allows you to save any individual wound, not just shot in general. When you roll a 6 with BR trait, you're saving a single overcharged plasma shot. With IH, that marine effectively negates two plasma shots per save, you're getting two chances to save, not one, and the trait doesn't become instantly useless in case of bikes, centurions and gravis. Even in case of venerable dreads, where FNP doesn't stack and you could try to argue for BR, BR one doesn't work unless enemy brings Str 14+ guns. Meh. If it was 1-3, not 1-2, maybe it would be equal to others.

And I like how people still project this trait as good thinking of TS/BA/GK/CSM psykers, not what SM actually have, never mind the fact the trait doesn't even want to synergize with their own chapter stratagem or special character in any way and all three are in fact detrimental to each other...

Christ above people.

It's a little bit of fluff to help you either run your own dudes with a more unique flavour or to put rules to models, so to speak, if you actually collect Blood Ravens. Oh? It's not better than x or y and as such is automatically dismissed? Boo fething hoo, you personally might not get any use out of it, but others might, and hell, some people might give it a go for gaks and giggles.

I suspect many need to chill the feth out, and realise not everything has to be better than or equal to each other in order for people to have fun with it.

But it's not true 40k if you aren't simulating the entire game in Microsoft Excel before putting any spacemans on the table. /s

 Dr. Mills wrote:
Christ above people.

It's a little bit of fluff to help you either run your own dudes with a more unique flavour or to put rules to models, so to speak, if you actually collect Blood Ravens. Oh? It's not better than x or y and as such is automatically dismissed? Boo fething hoo, you personally might not get any use out of it, but others might, and hell, some people might give it a go for gaks and giggles.

I suspect many need to chill the feth out, and realise not everything has to be better than or equal to each other in order for people to have fun with it.

as someone WITH a blood ravens army I'm kinda glad I can now safely count on not seeing a legion of people suddenly claiming to be true blue blood ravens players as they all build their tweeked out tourny lists.

I'm also TBH expecting to once the negitivity dies down a bit to see people putting this to trait to sue in libby filled supreme command detachments.

 BoomWolf wrote:
When are you NOT facing either a bunch of plasmas, enemy mechs punching face, smash captains going ham, stomping knights and/or to-wound modifiers on S5 weapons?

If you run primaris or termis then-some defense against the S8 weapons out there DOES help.
Even if not, it helps against stuff like VotLW
And at the very least, it makes knight stomps hurt less.

Things wounding your dudes on 2+ comes up more often than most people realize.
And against anything wounding on 2+, its a straight upgrade over iron hands. add that to a pretty darn good psyker bonus-and you get a trait that is overall nice albit situational.

Modifiers are mostly tied to Strategems for wounding so it'll not happen more than once a turn. Knights are also all shooting so I don't care about the stomping.
And plasma isn't even an issue since the first few codices were released.

The fact you have to stretch THAT far to try and defend the crap is rules is grade A white knighting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dr. Mills wrote:
Christ above people.

It's a little bit of fluff to help you either run your own dudes with a more unique flavour or to put rules to models, so to speak, if you actually collect Blood Ravens. Oh? It's not better than x or y and as such is automatically dismissed? Boo fething hoo, you personally might not get any use out of it, but others might, and hell, some people might give it a go for gaks and giggles.

I suspect many need to chill the feth out, and realise not everything has to be better than or equal to each other in order for people to have fun with it.

Pray tell how it's unique at all and tying into Blood Ravens.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Dr. Mills wrote:
Christ above people.

It's a little bit of fluff to help you either run your own dudes with a more unique flavour or to put rules to models, so to speak, if you actually collect Blood Ravens. Oh? It's not better than x or y and as such is automatically dismissed? Boo fething hoo, you personally might not get any use out of it, but others might, and hell, some people might give it a go for gaks and giggles.

I suspect many need to chill the feth out, and realise not everything has to be better than or equal to each other in order for people to have fun with it.

Pray tell how it's unique at all and tying into Blood Ravens.

Pray tell why that has any bearing on it's ability for people to use it or not if they want to? Feel it's not unique enough? Don't use it. Don't like the fluff blurb of the rule? Don't use it.

Your argument is flawed. People use whatever chapter tactic they want to for "their dudes", either a fluff, thematic or simple old "it's the best fit to the models I have" reason. You coming in with that argument means you missed the point entirely.

 BoomWolf wrote:
When are you NOT facing either a bunch of plasmas, enemy mechs punching face, smash captains going ham, stomping knights and/or to-wound modifiers on S5 weapons?

My entire local meta is none of those things.

 Dr. Mills wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Dr. Mills wrote:
Christ above people.

It's a little bit of fluff to help you either run your own dudes with a more unique flavour or to put rules to models, so to speak, if you actually collect Blood Ravens. Oh? It's not better than x or y and as such is automatically dismissed? Boo fething hoo, you personally might not get any use out of it, but others might, and hell, some people might give it a go for gaks and giggles.

I suspect many need to chill the feth out, and realise not everything has to be better than or equal to each other in order for people to have fun with it.

Pray tell how it's unique at all and tying into Blood Ravens.

Pray tell why that has any bearing on it's ability for people to use it or not if they want to? Feel it's not unique enough? Don't use it. Don't like the fluff blurb of the rule? Don't use it.

Your argument is flawed. People use whatever chapter tactic they want to for "their dudes", either a fluff, thematic or simple old "it's the best fit to the models I have" reason. You coming in with that argument means you missed the point entirely.

People shouldn't use the rules out of principle because they're insulting to the fanbase and for the people that happened to pick the "wrong" army.

I already explained how the Crimson Fist rules weren't very well thought out, but the Blood Ravens rules are absolutely LAZY.

Feel insulted. We don't care.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Dr. Mills wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Dr. Mills wrote:
Christ above people.

It's a little bit of fluff to help you either run your own dudes with a more unique flavour or to put rules to models, so to speak, if you actually collect Blood Ravens. Oh? It's not better than x or y and as such is automatically dismissed? Boo fething hoo, you personally might not get any use out of it, but others might, and hell, some people might give it a go for gaks and giggles.

I suspect many need to chill the feth out, and realise not everything has to be better than or equal to each other in order for people to have fun with it.

Pray tell how it's unique at all and tying into Blood Ravens.

Pray tell why that has any bearing on it's ability for people to use it or not if they want to? Feel it's not unique enough? Don't use it. Don't like the fluff blurb of the rule? Don't use it.

Your argument is flawed. People use whatever chapter tactic they want to for "their dudes", either a fluff, thematic or simple old "it's the best fit to the models I have" reason. You coming in with that argument means you missed the point entirely.

People shouldn't use the rules out of principle because they're insulting to the fanbase and for the people that happened to pick the "wrong" army.

I already explained how the Crimson Fist rules weren't very well thought out, but the Blood Ravens rules are absolutely LAZY.

If YOU don't want to use the rules out of some sense of 'principle', that's fine - you do you, man.

But don't you DARE tell me what I can or cannot do based on my own principles. Not everybody plays the game the same way, and just because you find a rule to be lackluster doesn't mean someone else can't enjoy it. That attitude you keep displaying on this topic is detrimental to the hobby - no one appointed you sole arbiter of how other people get to have fun.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Dr. Mills wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Dr. Mills wrote:
Christ above people.

It's a little bit of fluff to help you either run your own dudes with a more unique flavour or to put rules to models, so to speak, if you actually collect Blood Ravens. Oh? It's not better than x or y and as such is automatically dismissed? Boo fething hoo, you personally might not get any use out of it, but others might, and hell, some people might give it a go for gaks and giggles.

I suspect many need to chill the feth out, and realise not everything has to be better than or equal to each other in order for people to have fun with it.

Pray tell how it's unique at all and tying into Blood Ravens.

Pray tell why that has any bearing on it's ability for people to use it or not if they want to? Feel it's not unique enough? Don't use it. Don't like the fluff blurb of the rule? Don't use it.

Your argument is flawed. People use whatever chapter tactic they want to for "their dudes", either a fluff, thematic or simple old "it's the best fit to the models I have" reason. You coming in with that argument means you missed the point entirely.

People shouldn't use the rules out of principle because they're insulting to the fanbase and for the people that happened to pick the "wrong" army.

I already explained how the Crimson Fist rules weren't very well thought out, but the Blood Ravens rules are absolutely LAZY.

If YOU don't want to use the rules out of some sense of 'principle', that's fine - you do you, man.

But don't you DARE tell me what I can or cannot do based on my own principles. Not everybody plays the game the same way, and just because you find a rule to be lackluster doesn't mean someone else can't enjoy it. That attitude you keep displaying on this topic is detrimental to the hobby - no one appointed you sole arbiter of how other people get to have fun.

Amen, the additude of some people in this game is disgusting, GW puts out a new set of rules and people scream how we should be insulted because they're not brokenly OP. As someone WITH a blood ravens army.. I'm pretty happy with these rules. not gonna lie they could be better but I don't see them as somehow a personal insult. I also find it insulting that people who might suggest that "ya know I might be able to use these rules" are dismissed and insulted with childish school yard taunts such as "white knight" frankly the mods need to start cracking down on people tossing that word about as the personal attack we all damn well know it is

Back on topic of news and rumours - has anyone else noticed the relic bolt pistol can replace a heavy bolt pistol? AFAIK the heavy bolt pistol is not currently selectable by any character - new codex incoming that finally gives primaris characters wargear options?

The stratagem seems a bit weird giving out the chief librarian keyword - this currently does nothing I believe?

Insularum wrote:
Back on topic of news and rumours - has anyone else noticed the relic bolt pistol can replace a heavy bolt pistol? AFAIK the heavy bolt pistol is not currently selectable by any character - new codex incoming that finally gives primaris characters wargear options?

The stratagem seems a bit weird giving out the chief librarian keyword - this currently does nothing I believe?

proably just GW covering their bases and trying to future proof things

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Dr. Mills wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Dr. Mills wrote:
Christ above people.

It's a little bit of fluff to help you either run your own dudes with a more unique flavour or to put rules to models, so to speak, if you actually collect Blood Ravens. Oh? It's not better than x or y and as such is automatically dismissed? Boo fething hoo, you personally might not get any use out of it, but others might, and hell, some people might give it a go for gaks and giggles.

I suspect many need to chill the feth out, and realise not everything has to be better than or equal to each other in order for people to have fun with it.

Pray tell how it's unique at all and tying into Blood Ravens.

Pray tell why that has any bearing on it's ability for people to use it or not if they want to? Feel it's not unique enough? Don't use it. Don't like the fluff blurb of the rule? Don't use it.

Your argument is flawed. People use whatever chapter tactic they want to for "their dudes", either a fluff, thematic or simple old "it's the best fit to the models I have" reason. You coming in with that argument means you missed the point entirely.

People shouldn't use the rules out of principle because they're insulting to the fanbase and for the people that happened to pick the "wrong" army.

I already explained how the Crimson Fist rules weren't very well thought out, but the Blood Ravens rules are absolutely LAZY.

If YOU don't want to use the rules out of some sense of 'principle', that's fine - you do you, man.

But don't you DARE tell me what I can or cannot do based on my own principles. Not everybody plays the game the same way, and just because you find a rule to be lackluster doesn't mean someone else can't enjoy it. That attitude you keep displaying on this topic is detrimental to the hobby - no one appointed you sole arbiter of how other people get to have fun.

The only thing detrimental to the hobby is garbage rules writing. Can you honestly say, with a straight face, these rules are inspired in any way, shape, or form?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

The only thing detrimental to the hobby is garbage rules writing. Can you honestly say, with a straight face, these rules are inspired in any way, shape, or form?

I can honestly say with a straight face that these rules feel inspired by the well known video game series chapter of space marines known to have a higher than average amount of pskers among their rank and are whispered to be loyalist Thousands Sons. You can't see that within the rules with all the psyker stuff and an artifact that also happens to be a quite common type weapon (flame pistols) for Thousand Sons?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Dr. Mills wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Dr. Mills wrote:
Christ above people.

It's a little bit of fluff to help you either run your own dudes with a more unique flavour or to put rules to models, so to speak, if you actually collect Blood Ravens. Oh? It's not better than x or y and as such is automatically dismissed? Boo fething hoo, you personally might not get any use out of it, but others might, and hell, some people might give it a go for gaks and giggles.

I suspect many need to chill the feth out, and realise not everything has to be better than or equal to each other in order for people to have fun with it.

Pray tell how it's unique at all and tying into Blood Ravens.

Pray tell why that has any bearing on it's ability for people to use it or not if they want to? Feel it's not unique enough? Don't use it. Don't like the fluff blurb of the rule? Don't use it.

Your argument is flawed. People use whatever chapter tactic they want to for "their dudes", either a fluff, thematic or simple old "it's the best fit to the models I have" reason. You coming in with that argument means you missed the point entirely.

People shouldn't use the rules out of principle because they're insulting to the fanbase and for the people that happened to pick the "wrong" army.

I already explained how the Crimson Fist rules weren't very well thought out, but the Blood Ravens rules are absolutely LAZY.

If YOU don't want to use the rules out of some sense of 'principle', that's fine - you do you, man.

But don't you DARE tell me what I can or cannot do based on my own principles. Not everybody plays the game the same way, and just because you find a rule to be lackluster doesn't mean someone else can't enjoy it. That attitude you keep displaying on this topic is detrimental to the hobby - no one appointed you sole arbiter of how other people get to have fun.

The only thing detrimental to the hobby is garbage rules writing. Can you honestly say, with a straight face, these rules are inspired in any way, shape, or form?

Over-the-top powerful =/= inspired. So, yes - I can say they're inspired.

Welcome to the ignore list, pal.

I'd argue the rules are a positive sign. most chapter tactics as been "all your army gets X" which often really isn't that eh.. the blood ravens gives a mild tinsy boost to all your units, well specificly rewarding taking units of a partiuclar type associated with the chapter. go ask a white scars player if they'd like something added to their CT that makes bikes specificly better.

 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

The only thing detrimental to the hobby is garbage rules writing. Can you honestly say, with a straight face, these rules are inspired in any way, shape, or form?

I can honestly say with a straight face that these rules feel inspired by the well known video game series chapter of space marines known to have a higher than average amount of pskers among their rank and are whispered to be loyalist Thousands Sons. You can't see that within the rules with all the psyker stuff and an artifact that also happens to be a quite common type weapon (flame pistols) for Thousand Sons?

AH yes, all the Psyker stuff. The bleh bonus for Librarians is so fluffy, OH and getting one more power from a bad table at the cost of a CP! So inspired!
Also there's nothing about the Pistol being Thousand Sons inspired. You're making that up in your head. You're stretching really thin to defend the bad rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Dr. Mills wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Dr. Mills wrote:
Christ above people.

It's a little bit of fluff to help you either run your own dudes with a more unique flavour or to put rules to models, so to speak, if you actually collect Blood Ravens. Oh? It's not better than x or y and as such is automatically dismissed? Boo fething hoo, you personally might not get any use out of it, but others might, and hell, some people might give it a go for gaks and giggles.

I suspect many need to chill the feth out, and realise not everything has to be better than or equal to each other in order for people to have fun with it.

Pray tell how it's unique at all and tying into Blood Ravens.

Pray tell why that has any bearing on it's ability for people to use it or not if they want to? Feel it's not unique enough? Don't use it. Don't like the fluff blurb of the rule? Don't use it.

Your argument is flawed. People use whatever chapter tactic they want to for "their dudes", either a fluff, thematic or simple old "it's the best fit to the models I have" reason. You coming in with that argument means you missed the point entirely.

People shouldn't use the rules out of principle because they're insulting to the fanbase and for the people that happened to pick the "wrong" army.

I already explained how the Crimson Fist rules weren't very well thought out, but the Blood Ravens rules are absolutely LAZY.

If YOU don't want to use the rules out of some sense of 'principle', that's fine - you do you, man.

But don't you DARE tell me what I can or cannot do based on my own principles. Not everybody plays the game the same way, and just because you find a rule to be lackluster doesn't mean someone else can't enjoy it. That attitude you keep displaying on this topic is detrimental to the hobby - no one appointed you sole arbiter of how other people get to have fun.

The only thing detrimental to the hobby is garbage rules writing. Can you honestly say, with a straight face, these rules are inspired in any way, shape, or form?

Over-the-top powerful =/= inspired. So, yes - I can say they're inspired.

Welcome to the ignore list, pal.

IOW, I can't actually defend the rules so I'm not gonna bother trying and decide to ignore the member that proved me wrong.

Other Chapter Tactics are bad, but they're still more inspired than this garbage.

sure some other chapters have equally inspired CTs. Space Wolves is a wonderfully inspired chapter tactic, bonuses to hit in melee and increased allowances for a heroic intervention for their chartacters. really a great idea. others meanwhile are... not . minus hit penalties, feel no paion etc. it works, but let's face it. not exactly inspired.

you might not like what blood ravens got, but some thought into giving them something differant, and one that rewarded taking a unit that was closely associated with the blood ravens, clearly was made. I bet white scars would have lvoed to see some rules enchouragin them to take and use bikes.

BrianDavion wrote:
sure some other chapters have equally inspired CTs. Space Wolves is a wonderfully inspired chapter tactic, bonuses to hit in melee and increased allowances for a heroic intervention for their chartacters. really a great idea. others meanwhile are... not . minus hit penalties, feel no paion etc. it works, but let's face it. not exactly inspired.

you might not like what blood ravens got, but some thought into giving them something differant, and one that rewarded taking a unit that was closely associated with the blood ravens, clearly was made. I bet white scars would have lvoed to see some rules enchouragin them to take and use bikes.

They're not a BIKE Chapter, they just like Bikers. They already have rules to encourage Bikers, and the issue is Bikers aren't that good (well Scout ones are) and no Assault after Advancing.

are you really saying the white scars chapter tactic is somehow a great rule? I'm simply arging that blood ravens actually is inspired because GW's finally abandoned the conceit of marine chapter tactics having to apply 100% to all infantry bikes and dreads.

BrianDavion wrote:
are you really saying the white scars chapter tactic is somehow a great rule? I'm simply arging that blood ravens actually is inspired because GW's finally abandoned the conceit of marine chapter tactics having to apply 100% to all infantry bikes and dreads.

It's better and more inspired than the Blood Ravens one, so they have that at least.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
are you really saying the white scars chapter tactic is somehow a great rule? I'm simply arging that blood ravens actually is inspired because GW's finally abandoned the conceit of marine chapter tactics having to apply 100% to all infantry bikes and dreads.

It's better and more inspired than the Blood Ravens one, so they have that at least.

I'm sorry we'll have to disgree, at this point I honestly think we're using the term inspired differantly. I use the term INSPIRED to refer to a set of rules that are imaginative and think outside the boix. which.. ain;t white scars. Blood ravens meanwhile is a completely differant take on trying for resiliance. paired with a rule that increases the utility of librarians, (for which blood ravens are known) I agree the resilience rule is somewhat less then the raven guard or iron hands, but it's a differant take (and I would argue if it was mathamicly on par, or superior to it'd be unfair to iron hands) so I can appreciate that.

I'm insulted that the Chief Librarian rule is Blood Ravens only! Boo! Hiss!

 Crazyterran wrote:
I'm insulted that the Chief Librarian rule is Blood Ravens only! Boo! Hiss!

even as a Blood raven player I am dissappointed. I'd have liked to see them add in a chief libarian and a high reclusiarch stratigium in the space marine 2.0 codex

BrianDavion wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
I'm insulted that the Chief Librarian rule is Blood Ravens only! Boo! Hiss!

even as a Blood raven player I am dissappointed. I'd have liked to see them add in a chief libarian and a high reclusiarch stratigium in the space marine 2.0 codex

You mean like how the Chapter Master Strategem is only in Codex Marines instead of the Angels codices, even though they CLEARLY have successors?

Wow it's almost as though I'm right in that consolidation would help fix the dumb inconsistencies that the unnecessary extra codices bring to the table!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
are you really saying the white scars chapter tactic is somehow a great rule? I'm simply arging that blood ravens actually is inspired because GW's finally abandoned the conceit of marine chapter tactics having to apply 100% to all infantry bikes and dreads.

It's better and more inspired than the Blood Ravens one, so they have that at least.

I'm sorry we'll have to disgree, at this point I honestly think we're using the term inspired differantly. I use the term INSPIRED to refer to a set of rules that are imaginative and think outside the boix. which.. ain;t white scars. Blood ravens meanwhile is a completely differant take on trying for resiliance. paired with a rule that increases the utility of librarians, (for which blood ravens are known) I agree the resilience rule is somewhat less then the raven guard or iron hands, but it's a differant take (and I would argue if it was mathamicly on par, or superior to it'd be unfair to iron hands) so I can appreciate that.

A different take only works if there's a reason to go for it, which there isn't for the Blood Ravens.

Also there's nothing in the fluff really going out of the way to state they're durable in some form. So that's strike two already.