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 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Are you getting that from the video? The text articles don't give enough information to decide, but given that the profile shown is for bolt rifles, plural, I would suggest you're not correct. One stand makes one shooting attack.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The "In the box2 section of the new website https://warhammer40000.com/apocalypse/ shows a couple of datasheets. The only one we can see in full is the Morkanaut, but you can just make out that the Harlequin Troupe has three stat lines listed; one for five models, one for 10 and one for 12 (which is an unusual number. Presumably it'll be clearer in context, perhaps that's how characters are added to units.

Watch the example for making attacks closely with the Ork Boyz, and you'll see that they have attacks 2 when at 10-man, the "X3" stat on their choppas gets highlighted, and 6 dice are shown on the screen for their attacks.

All basic squad-level weapons will be done this way, with you making a number of attacks based on the Attacks stat of your unit (which also goes down when your unit is Critically Damaged).

For the Primaris Marines example, presumably Rapid Fire will work the same way as it does in base 40k, so a unit of 5 Primaris Intercessors would roll 1 die at range, and 2 dice at half range for their bolt rifles.

I'd like to note that you can see from the Harlequin Troupe datasheet shown that "Troupe Pistols" and "Troupe weapons" are the only two options.

That's amazing. They actually managed to make Harlequins MORE homogenous and generic than they are in 8th edition

Anyone want to take a bet that the distinction between Grav-guns Plasma Guns Flamers Meltas Multi-Meltas Missile Launchers Heavy Bolters Lascannons and Plasma Cannons will be preserved for marines, but the distinction between a shuriken pistol and a fusion pistol is "Eh, it's just one of those weird clown eldar weapons, who cares, they're basically all the same."

Don't think it was mentioned, but on the game board in the video, there are a trio of renegade knights nestled nicely into the scene.

Our gaming group plays a lot of 2v2 and 3v3 games. Because 8th is so slow and hard at massive points we always dropped everyone's points to around a 1000.

With Apoc, it looks like we can go standard 2000 each. Can anyone tell at all what min point game will work for Apoc? (1v1 and higher)

I suspect that’s something we’ll find out by playing it.

Given how quickly you can kill stuff, and damage being applied at the end of the game round, it could be that low level games are over very quickly?

I wonder how unbalanced the factions will be without Command Assets. I’d like to see if it’s possible to play without them, and revert Psyker powers back to normal 40k style.

 Da-Rock wrote:
Our gaming group plays a lot of 2v2 and 3v3 games. Because 8th is so slow and hard at massive points we always dropped everyone's points to around a 1000.

With Apoc, it looks like we can go standard 2000 each. Can anyone tell at all what min point game will work for Apoc? (1v1 and higher)

No one has even played it yet and it doesn't use 40k points or power level (although I'm sure you could if you wanted)

I've got the following so far for a Marine vs Nids royal rumble in Apocalypse....

Marines
======
10 scouts
6 Primaris
6 tactical
5 Fenris wolves

Tyranids
=======

12 Hormagaunts
20 Genestealers
5 Termagaunts

...but surely thats just a regular game of 40K! ^_^

SamusDrake wrote:
I've got the following so far for a Marine vs Nids royal rumble in Apocalypse....

Marines
======
10 scouts
6 Primaris
6 tactical
5 Fenris wolves

Tyranids
=======

12 Hormagaunts
20 Genestealers
5 Termagaunts

...but surely thats just a regular game of 40K! ^_^

That's.. not even a regular game of 40k. It's like a kid bought some used models :p

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Don't think it was mentioned, but on the game board in the video, there are a trio of renegade knights nestled nicely into the scene.

Yeah they showed up in some of the pics in the Chaos faction article as well. I'd put money on them coming up for order before the end of July.

 Kirasu wrote:


That's.. not even a regular game of 40k. It's like a kid bought some used models :p

...and on that note, I think I shall quit while I'm ahead!


Seriously though! Watching the video...you need at least one detachment? And the minimum for a battalion detachment is 3 troop units? And going by the size of the trays, thats 5-10 models in a unit? Hmmm...

Tyranid Battalion detachment
=======================
2 x Genestealer Units( 10 models each )
1 x Hormagaunt Unit( 10 models )
1 x Termagaunt Unit( 10 models )

...thats going to be a power rating of 22, going against a Castallan and 2 Helverins with a 48 rating...oooooooh, nasty. Bugs are gonna be squashed!

So the daemons article was interesting....

But also included a random, irrational and completely unexplained name change.

Even when daemonic legions were actual army lists, they weren't called 'legiones daemonica.' Not sure which Romance language they're trying to offend with that mess.

Demons up:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/06/21/apocalypse-faction-focus-legiones-daemonicagw-homepage-post-4/

Includes examples how ++ saves work, Inferno ability, and summoning...

 Irbis wrote:
Demons up:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/06/21/apocalypse-faction-focus-legiones-daemonicagw-homepage-post-4/

Includes examples how ++ saves work, Inferno ability, and summoning...

Nitpick: it does none of those things. Daemonic invulnerability is an army special rule that lets them swap 1d6 for 1d12 when making saves, infernal gateway is a tzeentch psyker only command card special power, and the denizens of the warp command card lets you redeploy a dead unit if you roll above their Power on 2d12

Voss wrote:
Nitpick

*shrug* Bravo for taking colloquial use of the above three terms, and valiantly arguing they aren't 200% adherent to textbook name (and just name, I like how you ignored substance of it still being adding extra unit to the battlefield). Here, have one Captain Obvious point

Edit: Also, I like how in your rush to nitpick you failed to read both my post and the article, I meant Skarbrand example demonstrating (IIRC) for the first time new ability...

 Imateria wrote:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Are you getting that from the video? The text articles don't give enough information to decide, but given that the profile shown is for bolt rifles, plural, I would suggest you're not correct. One stand makes one shooting attack.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The "In the box2 section of the new website https://warhammer40000.com/apocalypse/ shows a couple of datasheets. The only one we can see in full is the Morkanaut, but you can just make out that the Harlequin Troupe has three stat lines listed; one for five models, one for 10 and one for 12 (which is an unusual number. Presumably it'll be clearer in context, perhaps that's how characters are added to units.

The Harlequin Troupe maxes out at 12 in 40K (presumably because there's 6 in a box), from what we've seen so far min and max sizes for squads are matching those in 40K.

Yes, but the movement trays take 5 models, hence 12 being a bit strange.

 Irbis wrote:

Voss wrote:
Nitpick

*shrug* Bravo for taking colloquial use of the above three terms, and valiantly arguing they aren't 200% adherent to textbook name (and just name, I like how you ignored substance of it still being adding extra unit to the battlefield). Here, have one Captain Obvious point

Edit: Also, I like how in your rush to nitpick you failed to read both my post and the article, I meant Skarbrand example demonstrating (IIRC) for the first time new ability...

Ok... let me be less polite.

There is absolutely no reason to think the Daemonic Invulnerability army rule is the same as an invulnerable saves.

Summoning refers to absolutely nothing in the article (rezzing a dead unit and summoning new units are very distinct mechanics in 40k), and the inferno tag on Skarbrand's bellow is unexplained, so I was giving you the benefit of the doubt by referencing the ability that is explained.

How about we all stay polite?

I think the safer conclusion is that the ability rules between 40k and Apocalpse have even less of a connection to each other, than the same abilities across editions of 40k do.

It won't be surprising if similar abilities get similar treatment, but given GW's love of special snowflake rules we certainly need to expect strange creative inconsistencies.

Voss wrote:

 Irbis wrote:

Voss wrote:
Nitpick

*shrug* Bravo for taking colloquial use of the above three terms, and valiantly arguing they aren't 200% adherent to textbook name (and just name, I like how you ignored substance of it still being adding extra unit to the battlefield). Here, have one Captain Obvious point

Edit: Also, I like how in your rush to nitpick you failed to read both my post and the article, I meant Skarbrand example demonstrating (IIRC) for the first time new ability...

Ok... let me be less polite.

There is absolutely no reason to think the Daemonic Invulnerability army rule is the same as an invulnerable saves.

Summoning refers to absolutely nothing in the article (rezzing a dead unit and summoning new units are very distinct mechanics in 40k), and the inferno tag on Skarbrand's bellow is unexplained, so I was giving you the benefit of the doubt by referencing the ability that is explained.

Combine the Damonic Instability rule with the Kustom Force Field and we can already start to see a pattern where invulnerable saves as we know them aren't a thing in Apocalypse but now do different things for different armies, with -1 to wound for Orks and Daemons always taking saves on a D12, which is useful for large blast markers but not small ones. There's no need to get super picky about terminoligy at this point.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Are you getting that from the video? The text articles don't give enough information to decide, but given that the profile shown is for bolt rifles, plural, I would suggest you're not correct. One stand makes one shooting attack.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The "In the box2 section of the new website https://warhammer40000.com/apocalypse/ shows a couple of datasheets. The only one we can see in full is the Morkanaut, but you can just make out that the Harlequin Troupe has three stat lines listed; one for five models, one for 10 and one for 12 (which is an unusual number. Presumably it'll be clearer in context, perhaps that's how characters are added to units.

The Harlequin Troupe maxes out at 12 in 40K (presumably because there's 6 in a box), from what we've seen so far min and max sizes for squads are matching those in 40K.

Yes, but the movement trays take 5 models, hence 12 being a bit strange.

True, but it looks like the movement trays are there to help rather than be a requirement of the game.

Does anyone know if these new Apocalypse boxes will be available from 3rd party sellers?

 dan2026 wrote:
Does anyone know if these new Apocalypse boxes will be available from 3rd party sellers?

You mean "stores"? Yes, they're available at most game stores that stock GW. Quantities are always variable tho.

Voss wrote:
So the daemons article was interesting....

But also included a random, irrational and completely unexplained name change.

Even when daemonic legions were actual army lists, they weren't called 'legiones daemonica.' Not sure which Romance language they're trying to offend with that mess.

Keyword fix, so that Nurgle Daemons and Daemons of Nurgle and Nurgle Marked Daemons can be different things, and you don't need to worry about your strats also covering Mortarion and Plagueburst Crawlers etc.
Daemons of Chaos codex is it's own faction, so only a few specific things then spread to other daemon or god units, rather than almost every aura that didn't list specific units.

Asuryani faction focus

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/06/22/apocalypse-faction-focus-asuryanigw-homepage-post-4/

Kinda sad that they only put 1 photo into the whole craftworld article! Makes one wonder if the photographers are all working on something else Eldar related and don't have time or the models setup to be taking photos of "old models" for Apoc I also note that their Apoc kit is all the newer plastics as is the photo - not even a guardian or weapon platform on show

 Overread wrote:
Kinda sad that they only put 1 photo into the whole craftworld article! Makes one wonder if the photographers are all working on something else Eldar related and don't have time or the models setup to be taking photos of "old models" for Apoc I also note that their Apoc kit is all the newer plastics as is the photo - not even a guardian or weapon platform on show

There are three squads of Guardian Defenders and 1 Storm Guardian squad in the midground. Also, the two FW titans are pretty old now.

I agree one pic is a bit weird though, and the lack of Aspect warriors is conspicuous.

After watching the how to video, I am really excited to try this out.

Tastyfish wrote:

Voss wrote:
So the daemons article was interesting....

But also included a random, irrational and completely unexplained name change.

Even when daemonic legions were actual army lists, they weren't called 'legiones daemonica.' Not sure which Romance language they're trying to offend with that mess.

Keyword fix, so that Nurgle Daemons and Daemons of Nurgle and Nurgle Marked Daemons can be different things, and you don't need to worry about your strats also covering Mortarion and Plagueburst Crawlers etc.
Daemons of Chaos codex is it's own faction, so only a few specific things then spread to other daemon or god units, rather than almost every aura that didn't list specific units.

As usual tho, GW went with the worst option of a name. We also can bet it was for copywrite reasons not playability (since so much of 8th is poorly written).

Now, instead of issuing one FAQ that simply states how the demon keyword works across codices you have to issue another faq for every ability that references chaos demons. That's not easier at all.

It's also a stupid name

 Kirasu wrote:

Tastyfish wrote:

Voss wrote:
So the daemons article was interesting....

But also included a random, irrational and completely unexplained name change.

Even when daemonic legions were actual army lists, they weren't called 'legiones daemonica.' Not sure which Romance language they're trying to offend with that mess.

Keyword fix, so that Nurgle Daemons and Daemons of Nurgle and Nurgle Marked Daemons can be different things, and you don't need to worry about your strats also covering Mortarion and Plagueburst Crawlers etc.
Daemons of Chaos codex is it's own faction, so only a few specific things then spread to other daemon or god units, rather than almost every aura that didn't list specific units.

As usual tho, GW went with the worst option of a name. We also can bet it was for copywrite reasons not playability (since so much of 8th is poorly written).

Now, instead of issuing one FAQ that simply states how the demon keyword works across codices you have to issue another faq for every ability that references chaos demons. That's not easier at all.

It's also a stupid name

or you put out an entire new fething codex. which is proably the plan, since the deamons codeex came out we've gotten a ton of new slaanish stuff and a tiny bit of khorne stuff.

im not so fond of the new rules, they seem really good but not for playing whit 28 mm figures.
why should i put down 5 marines to get what, 1 attack and 2 wounds that allone shows the rules ar written
to be played whit unit stands. thats why you will get the movement trays so they will act like the stand of marines
like epic. and whit all the tokens the table will be full off stuff. all your models en all the tokens, you will see no table any more

i think i will play this whit my epic collection and play old appoc, not perfect but all my models will have an impact on the game
not mutch but 5 marines will have 5 attacks and 5 wounds will they survive better. i dont think so. but thats war

 skeleton wrote:
im not so fond of the new rules, they seem really good but not for playing whit 28 mm figures.
why should i put down 5 marines to get what, 1 attack and 2 wounds that allone shows the rules ar written
to be played whit unit stands. thats why you will get the movement trays so they will act like the stand of marines
like epic. and whit all the tokens the table will be full off stuff. all your models en all the tokens, you will see no table any more

i think i will play this whit my epic collection and play old appoc, not perfect but all my models will have an impact on the game
not mutch but 5 marines will have 5 attacks and 5 wounds will they survive better. i dont think so. but thats war

Power to you for doing so but epic had 5 marines on 1 base which does 1 attack the exact same? It's just an abstraction based on the scale, the cumulative bullets of the 5 dudes = that 1 die roll, just as in 40k, a clip of ammo for a marine = 1-2 shots.