Apocalypse and other reinforcements up for preorder

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**Spoletta**

Sir Heckington wrote:
This just in:
Buffer SM units seem to have forgot their guns!

Single boltgun shot have been ignored for the scale of the game.
Same for devastator squads, they have no bolter, only special weapons most of the time.

**Sir Heckington**

Spoletta wrote:
Sir Heckington wrote:
This just in:
Buffer SM units seem to have forgot their guns!

Single boltgun shot have been ignored for the scale of the game.
Same for devastator squads, they have no bolter, only special weapons most of the time.

However the same doesn't apply to single pulse shots, as Tau HQs still have their weapons.

**Spoletta**

Sir Heckington wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Sir Heckington wrote:
This just in:
Buffer SM units seem to have forgot their guns!

Single boltgun shot have been ignored for the scale of the game.
Same for devastator squads, they have no bolter, only special weapons most of the time.

However the same doesn't apply to single pulse shots, as Tau HQs still have their weapons.

A T'au without a gun is naked and they didn't want the game to be rated 18+.

**Sweetcurse**

A booster or SB is too small scale but a sword slash is fine? Hmmmmm

**Spoletta**

If the sword slash is on a character it represents multiple slashes.

Rimember that everything that has an attack, is something that can potentially wipe a squad.
The odd ones out are indeed the T'au character guns.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:
hm.... I'll have to see some of this stuff in action.

If Sniper truly doesn't grant the abiltiy to target characters even if they're not the closest, and almost all charcters are 1W, then how do you avoid having your characters blown out of the water in Apoc, I wonder?

a couple things you can tease together I've found so far:

Rules we don't yet know:

-Terror Troops (Death Jester)
-Infiltrators
-Supercharge
-Inferno (though I'm fairly sure it'll be auto-hit)
-Anti-Air
-Supersonic

Things we have learned:

-Deep strike is still 9" away (From the preview they placed deep striking units quite close, so I wasn't quite sure)
-Fall Back is still a thing, since Hellions have a rule that references it. If you start the turn in melee, you still have to Fall Back - unclear how that interacts with the new orders system.

We also know that the cover rule has been likely been replaced with the obscuration rule and that everything that has a -1 to be hit now has stealth.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

TL/DR....

But I’ve noticed that single character, notably Vargard Obyron is, one his own, far, far less Killy than a unit of Lychguard with Warscythes.

Less attacks, and the attacks are less potent.

Which I guess as ‘one dude against five dudes’ does make a narrative sense?

**Crablezworth**

So with the movement trays, does that bode well for the existence/relevance of terrain in apoc?

**lord_blackfang**

I'm glad that every model ever made is covered, but it's also plainly obvious that stats and points were assigned by throwing darts at a wall.

**Prometheum5**

Plague Marines cannot be taken in the proper unit sizes... who the heck takes a squad of 10? Nurgle is sad.

**zend**

Crablezworth wrote:
So with the movement trays, does that bode well for the existence/relevance of terrain in apoc?

As long as the rules don’t forbid you from being within an inch of terrain features like Fantasy did. There’s also nothing stopping you from playing without the trays, so far the rules only say you have to maintain half inch unit coherence, which is still easy to do with conga lines.

One benefit of the tray is that for like $25 you can get 5 x 5 units of Intercessors if you buy the 5 man Dark Imperium squad and third party MDF trays. Just stick one Intercessor on each tray and you’re good, because each one will still have the same table space and rules as a full unit of models.

Where are people seeing the Forgeworld units? I downloaded the ork sheets and don’t see em

**xttz**

zend wrote:
So
Where are people seeing the Forgeworld units? I downloaded the ork sheets and don’t see em

There's a separate FW section further down the page

**Ice_can**

xttz wrote:
zend wrote:
So
Where are people seeing the Forgeworld units? I downloaded the ork sheets and don’t see em

There's a separate FW section further down the page

Or you download everything in the zip file but eitherway FW are in a seperate file.

**lord_blackfang**

Crablezworth wrote:
So with the movement trays, does that bode well for the existence/relevance of terrain in apoc?

Here's an interesting tidbit from the Burna-Bommer sheet

Burna Bombs: After this unit makes a Move action, select one enemy unit it moved over whilst
making that Move action. Roll three D6, subtracting 1 from each result if that unit is a Character
and adding 1 to each result if that unit is garrisoning a Defensible Terrain feature; for each result of
4+ place one blast marker next to that unit.

**zend**

xttz wrote:
zend wrote:
So
Where are people seeing the Forgeworld units? I downloaded the ork sheets and don’t see em

There's a separate FW section further down the page

Ah, on mobile you have to filter to show it.

Edit: Haha, they made it so you can’t load the Kustom Stompa with nothing but more Dakka like in 8th edition.. You have to swap the Lifta Droppa for the Deffkannon. They also goofed, one page says it’s 40 power, the other says 38.

**Kirasu**

I have no idea why they decided to keep all the re-rolls. Apoc needs to be fast and re-rolls is one of the key reasons that 40k is so slow now.

Should be just +1 to relevant roll, as you're using D12s now so its the same thing except much faster.

I like how Striking scorpions are 16 power rating, but 10 wraithguard are only 14 and 10 intercessors only 12.

**topaxygouroun i**

Hierophant Bio-titan: 95 PL, 8 wounds.
Warhound Titan: 60 PL, 12 wounds.
Reaver Battle Titan: 100 PL, 24 wounds.

What even, GW?

**Ice_can**

Kirasu wrote:
I have no idea why they decided to keep all the re-rolls. Apoc needs to be fast and re-rolls is one of the key reasons that 40k is so slow now.

Should be just +1 to relevant roll, as you're using D12s now so its the same thing except much faster.

I like how Striking scorpions are 16 power rating, but 10 wraithguard are only 14 and 10 intercessors only 12.

I'm guessing it's due to some rules interactions or value we haven't seen yet as I've noticed a buch of keywords that seem to have meaning in the game that we haven't seen yet.
Wraithguard are also 15 for 10 not 14 that's wraithblades who don't have deepstrike infiltration or shadowstrike special rules.

**Daedalus81**

Spoletta wrote:
Reading over tyranids i have to say that i find them a bit plain.
Tyranids are a faction with lot of weird rules, and in apoc that does not translate well.
They are surely functional, but they lose a bit of flavour. What is really cool is that the few quirks left are now quite cinematic due to the apoc rules. The toxic effect now don't have a change of inflicting a mortal wound, they have a chance of asphixiating a whole squad. Same for acid blood.
They also consolidated together a lot of different options, for example the warriors have "bio melee weapons", whatever weapon you give them. This in a way is fine, since i won't have to change loadouts between 40K and Apoc.

I believe this will come across more with the asset cards.

**xttz**

topaxygouroun i wrote:
Hierophant Bio-titan: 95 PL, 8 wounds.
Warhound Titan: 60 PL, 12 wounds.
Reaver Battle Titan: 100 PL, 24 wounds.

What even, GW?

Warhounds and Reavers have a 5+ save, Hierophants have a 3+ save. Nearly all the time these will be on a D6, so Imperial titans will shed wounds much faster than the bug. Reavers also have to pay extra PL for most other weapon options, and can cost up to 154.

I'm most curious to see what the Tyrand command assets will offer too. It will almost certainly allow for some form of Ignore Damage or regeneration, hopefully it can be used on the Hierophant.

Edit: I've had a look around other factions and 3+ saves are really rare in Apoc. Generally they're only on 1-2 wound count named characters like Gulliman or Valoris. If there are any easily accessible abilities to re-roll saves that Hierophant is gonna be hard to put down.

**Spoletta**

The only other 3+ i found are deathwing knights.

**Jadenim**

So what the hell is an Ork kart in the GW pdf??

**xttz**

Jadenim wrote:
So what the hell is an Ork kart in the GW pdf??

They're the looted vehicle rules from the last Chapter Approved. Karts are chimera/rhino equivalents, wagons are looted russes / predators, a battle fortress is a looted baneblade / shadowsword.

Edit: they need to fix the PL values for those a bit. Wagons are 3 PL like a Kart (Russes are around 10), Battlefortresses show 8PL/12PL depending which page you look at (Baneblades are 25-28).

**LunarSol**

What's the expected PL this is played at?

Do we know anything about what the detachment requirements look like?

**Formerly Wu**

Imperial Guard have a datasheet for Schaeffer's Last Chancers! That's a nice unexpected callback.

**Not Online!!!**

Formerly Wu wrote:
Imperial Guard have a datasheet for Schaeffer's Last Chancers! That's a nice unexpected callback.

They even thought about the bsf units, unaligned and Heretic Astartes have the datasheets for the badies.

**Ice_can**

LunarSol wrote:
What's the expected PL this is played at?

Do we know anything about what the detachment requirements look like?

It doesn't map across 100% but if this works down to 100 to 150 thats pretty close to a current 40k 2k list

**Da-Rock**

I'm guessing here, but if you play 2v2 games then 2000 points = 100 Power Level for each player.

So in a 2v2 game it would be 4000 points per side or 200 PL.

**LunarSol**

Wouldn't the intention for armies to be larger than 2000 pt equivalents?

**Spoletta**

2000 is more in the apocalypse range than in the standard 40k range. The standard 1750 game is already pushing it.

The PL look to be about equivalent with the ones from the original game, so at 100 PL having 3 detachments will be the average. With 3 detachments you can have a quick fun game, about equivalent to a 1000 point game (10-11 units).

**Ice_can**

LunarSol wrote:
Wouldn't the intention for armies to be larger than 2000 pt equivalents?

Depends on what your trying to achieve, really but if this scales down to 150-200 ish easily I can see it being preferred by some over the monotony of waiting fro your opponent to finish their 200 model spam list movement phase after you've finished the coffee I just had time to walk to the coffee shop for and walk back having finished said coffee. While carrying my second coffee for thwir upcoming 1/2 hour shooting phase of all the lasguns.