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When I look at Age of Sigmar, it seems almost every army is now based around special characters, centrepiece models or special characters who are themselves centrepiece models.

e.g. Vampire Counts (or whatever stupid, trademarked name they go by these days) apparently revolve around taking either Nagash (or one of the other special characters) or else a Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon.

Ghouls similarly revolve around Ghoul Kings on Terrorgheists or Zombie Dragons.

Sylvaneth have Alarielle the Everqueen.

etc.

My question is, is there any AoS army that's based around infantry-sized models? At least with regard to its heroes (I don't mind monsters existing in the army, I just don't want my heroes to have to ride them to be worth a damn). And when I say 'infantry -sized', I don't mean 'infantry-sized model... righting a huge beast' but actually infantry-sized.

Also, Please note that I'm not counting armies where you can take infantry-sized heroes but cripple yourself in the process (because they're orders of magnitude worse than the special characters or centrepiece models).

Do any armies like this still exist or am I just barking up the wrong tree?

Beasts of Chaos. They have no named heroes.

TBF Legions of Nagash does not need Nagash or a VLoZD to do well (some winning tourney lists don't have either). I think what you are seeing may be a result of such centerpiece models being readily visible and easily noticed whereas more low-profile armies are the opposite.

But anyways: Dispossessed, Bonesplittaz, Freeguild, Khorne, Fyreslayers, Skaven, Gloomspite, and Nighthaunt are all totally viable using an army mostly or entirely infantry, with no monster-mounted characters (Dispossessed, Bonesplittaz and Nighthaunt don't even have any). Stormcast too, though I'm not sure if they are too big for your taste.

I don’t yet own the Everqueen or even the other special character for my Sylvaneth. I’ll run some Treelords or a Treelord Ancient, but my General is usually a Branchwraith.

 Kurgash wrote:
Beasts of Chaos. They have no named heroes.

Huh, I didn't realise they even had a battletome.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
TBF Legions of Nagash does not need Nagash or a VLoZD to do well (some winning tourney lists don't have either). I think what you are seeing may be a result of such centerpiece models being readily visible and easily noticed whereas more low-profile armies are the opposite.

All I'll say is that this is the opposite I've heard when I've asked for advice elsewhere. It basically boiled down to 'I mean, you can play without the special characters and zombie dragons... if you have a serious grudge against ever winning a game.'

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

But anyways: Dispossessed, Bonesplittaz, Freeguild, Khorne, Fyreslayers, Skaven, Gloomspite, and Nighthaunt are all totally viable using an army mostly or entirely infantry, with no monster-mounted characters (Dispossessed, Bonesplittaz and Nighthaunt don't even have any). Stormcast too, though I'm not sure if they are too big for your taste.

Stormcast very much aren't my thing I fear. Nighthaunt could be interesting, though.

 AduroT wrote:
I don’t yet own the Everqueen or even the other special character for my Sylvaneth. I’ll run some Treelords or a Treelord Ancient, but my General is usually a Branchwraith.

And that works?

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
I don’t yet own the Everqueen or even the other special character for my Sylvaneth. I’ll run some Treelords or a Treelord Ancient, but my General is usually a Branchwraith.

And that works?

Yes?

@NinthMusketeer, do you have any links or examples of Vampire lists that have done will without any of the special characters or centrepiece models?

I'll have to see if I can find some links--I know them from seeing the armies in person. But the basic idea is using the Death March battalion in Grand Host with a general that has the Lord of Nagashizzar command trait. 10-man unit of black knights, big unit of grave guard with great weapons, and two/three 40-man units of skeletons (the latter is what's actually auto-take for LoN). Chronomantic cogs makes turn 1 charges very possible, and the strategic value of hero-phase movement cannot be understated.

I run both my Khorne demons & Freeguilds (my Dogs of War mercs from editions long past) perfectly fine without centering either around some giant "centerpiece" model.

If you skip the dragons in FEC you can play it without focusing on centrepiece models.

Bonespltters.

No monsters, no special character (Except maybe the JuJu shaman) and biggest thing you get are crazy naked orcs riding boars.

Plus a painted horde does look great and intimidating! (A shame its all bark and no bite currently! Im really hoping BS and Ironjawz get rolled together)

Gir Spirit Bane wrote:
Bonespltters.

(A shame its all bark and no bite currently!

you sure? with everyone wanting to take giant monster lists those maniaks are just itching to kill some big gribblies. Like wasn't there a recent GT where bonesplitters took 2nd along with a crazy high points killed score?

edit: found it, can't find the GT name but here were the results

Holy, well looks like I need to eat humble pie! Thanks for showing me

... I already collect gloomspite, ironjawz.... should I add a ravening horde of bonesplittas.....

I find it funny that in the “favorite game” column, Hedonites are NOT very popular. Seems like people don’t like them in tournies.

Being killed before you swing is generally pretty unfun. Coupled with when you do swing they get to summon new models for you damaging their characters, then those characters heal...

The battletome seems to have been designed with the more traditional 30-40% points spent on characters in mind. That the nature of depravity would naturally lead to the inverse was not accounted for, for whatever reason. But even then it is really the keepers that push things to crazy levels, and IMO half of that is just the one weapon option.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Being killed before you swing is generally pretty unfun. Coupled with when you do swing they get to summon new models for you damaging their characters, then those characters heal...

The battletome seems to have been designed with the more traditional 30-40% points spent on characters in mind. That the nature of depravity would naturally lead to the inverse was not accounted for, for whatever reason. But even then it is really the keepers that push things to crazy levels, and IMO half of that is just the one weapon option.

Out of interest, which weapon option is that?

Legion of Grief fits your bill quite nicely.

The reason why people insist on taking the VLOZD (often with ethereal amulet), is that your general is a very key model, and if he falls, your major ability to resurrect is gone...

Legion of Grief can't take vampires, but they sure as hell got some fun tricks up their sleeve... But it won't be a top tier army I reckon.

One keeper works fine for me. Anything more than that id only use in a nutcrusher environment.

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Being killed before you swing is generally pretty unfun. Coupled with when you do swing they get to summon new models for you damaging their characters, then those characters heal...

The battletome seems to have been designed with the more traditional 30-40% points spent on characters in mind. That the nature of depravity would naturally lead to the inverse was not accounted for, for whatever reason. But even then it is really the keepers that push things to crazy levels, and IMO half of that is just the one weapon option.

Out of interest, which weapon option is that?

The healing hand (it has a different name, but it's the healing hand). So long as it kills at least one model in the combat phase (rather easy for a keeper) it heals d3. That gives a decent chance of netting 2d3 healing a round, on top of what is offered by the lore spell. Note that taking those wounds in the first place generated depravity, compounding the effectiveness of healing even further. That interaction is extremely potent, and since all equipment options are the same point cost the keeper needs to be costed assuming the best option is taken.

IMO an errata saying that the healing hand needs to do the killing to trigger the heal would go a long way to curbing the keeper and Slaanesh as a whole.

Stormcast Eternals do very well with most of their standard infantry heroes.

Idoneth Deepkin, although a large number of their good units ride steeds (eels, a seahorse) so I don't know if that qualifies.

Legion of Grief, as already mentioned, although some of their good heroes also ride a throne or are on steeds (flying or otherwise).

Unfortunately, Age of Sigmar is all about epic fantasy battles. That means big monsters. Even if you skirt away from named heroes, a lot of the "good" pieces in armies tend to also be big monsters because rule of cool (Verminlords, Lords of Change, Magmadroths, etc.)

Beast of Chaos is basically just Gors lol.

My main list is lots of Ungors, Ungor Raiders and 40 Bestigors, with 4 heroes (Bestlord, just a Gor, and 3 Shamans, tho 1 is on a Disk to cast the Bull) and i take 1 unit of 6-9 Disks for a hammer hitting unit. You dont need the Disks, you can just take more Bestogirs and Ungors.

Part of the issue with smaller characters is that as there's no built-in protection against just getting shot you tend to want to put your auras/support abilities on tougher platforms, which tends to mean big centerpiece cavalry/monsters.

I might suggest looking at one of the old-fantasy elf armies (Wanderers and Darkling Covens are the most complete); they don't have support abilities hard-locked to the big monsters the way the newer AoS armies tend to, and they have useful inexpensive/redundant foot heroes that can contribute to the game via ranged attacks and spells without exposing themselves to getting whacked in melee.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Part of the issue with smaller characters is that as there's no built-in protection against just getting shot you tend to want to put your auras/support abilities on tougher platforms, which tends to mean big centerpiece cavalry/monsters.

I might suggest looking at one of the old-fantasy elf armies (Wanderers and Darkling Covens are the most complete); they don't have support abilities hard-locked to the big monsters the way the newer AoS armies tend to, and they have useful inexpensive/redundant foot heroes that can contribute to the game via ranged attacks and spells without exposing themselves to getting whacked in melee.

You can give them relics tho, ther eis a relic for 1 phase you cannot target as an example.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Part of the issue with smaller characters is that as there's no built-in protection against just getting shot you tend to want to put your auras/support abilities on tougher platforms, which tends to mean big centerpiece cavalry/monsters.

This was a big part of my initial point. It seems characters aren't allowed to be tough anymore unless they're sitting on a dragon.

 DV8 wrote:

Idoneth Deepkin, although a large number of their good units ride steeds (eels, a seahorse) so I don't know if that qualifies.

There's only one character type(Akhelian Kings) that ride mounts. It's the schtick of the Akhelians, they're a warrior caste that essentially grew up on the tales Teclis had told the Idoneth about the Dragon Princes of Caledor and the Silver Helms.

Unfortunately, Age of Sigmar is all about epic fantasy battles. That means big monsters. Even if you skirt away from named heroes, a lot of the "good" pieces in armies tend to also be big monsters because rule of cool (Verminlords, Lords of Change, Magmadroths, etc.)

Important to note that not everything that's "big" is a "monster". The Eidolon of Mathlaan, for example, isn't a Monster nor are the Akhelian Kings while the Allopex(shark) is.

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Part of the issue with smaller characters is that as there's no built-in protection against just getting shot you tend to want to put your auras/support abilities on tougher platforms, which tends to mean big centerpiece cavalry/monsters.

This was a big part of my initial point. It seems characters aren't allowed to be tough anymore unless they're sitting on a dragon.

No, there are still plenty of smaller heroes that are tough. Like the Dragon Ogre Shaggoth 10 wounds 4+ save or the Ironjawz Megaboss he is 7 wounds 3+ save. There are many many more like that, a 3+ or 4+ save with 7-10 wounds on a 120-160pt character is really good and they are not much bigger than their normal troop model.

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Part of the issue with smaller characters is that as there's no built-in protection against just getting shot you tend to want to put your auras/support abilities on tougher platforms, which tends to mean big centerpiece cavalry/monsters.

This was a big part of my initial point. It seems characters aren't allowed to be tough anymore unless they're sitting on a dragon.

Not sure I really agree with this. Some of the monstrous mounts aren't as "tough" as you might think.

Disciples of Tzeentch can run pretty much with just infantry (sorcerers), though some are riding discs of Tzeentch and/or chariots. I don't think Kairos Fateweaver or a Lord of Change are necessary. The thing is, however, if you bought and painted up an awesome model like these centerpieces, you'll want to use them in battle. Wargaming is a sport of spectacle, after all.

People love them their low model count forces.

Less to collect.
Less to paint.
Less to transport.
Less to mess with in a game.

So yes armies can work without those models but they are crazy popular because low model count army preferred.

I play a lot of pure mortal lists with my Khorne, unless you count daemon options for summoning. Like half my games with 1-3 Bloodthirsters the other half mortals. Works well in my local meta, is pretty easy to change how hard the list is and hitting the other other army in melee almost always makes it feel like a good game. 3 Bloodthirsters can be a lot more hit or miss with the game being over early.