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So this is where I'm at. I'm starting with this for an RTT next week;



But when I obtain enough transports it's going to be more this;



Both have CC support, robots, mortar tanks, and dunecrawlers. Not sure I love how few basic infantry I have but I think it still ticks all the boxes.

Thanks Suzuteo, food for thought. So i guess if you have to go mono-FW then it should still always be Mars?

@Hulksmash: what’s the reasoning behind the 2x10 Vanguard over 4x5 Vanguard? Wouldn’t splitting them help them for morale and give them another attack by having a second Alpha?

@Pomguo

I use them in the transports mostly for wrath of mars. So the full squads give me more mortals. I'd only split them if I was going special weapon crazy which I wouldn't with vanguard.

Also, I would say Mars is the only pure force. But cawl does make up for a lot of issues that come from today's meta.

@Hulksmash
Not enough dakka! Lol. Just kidding.

You are trading firepower for a bit of mobility to play the objectives better. Does help that the Riders have a ton of Heavy Stubber shots though.

My list is still doing the "cram as many threats into 2000 points as possible" thing.

Here it is from a few pages back:

I might cut the Crawlers and a Robot for 4x Las Striders though. Those things are amazingly good. They excel in the anti-aircraft role and they threaten T8 targets.

That being said, I am wondering if I really want to get three more Skorpiuses. I got 6x Crawlers. Burned by Rule of Three. I got 3x Drills. Burned by infiltration nerf. Just barely avoided buying Drop Pods in 7E too. Sigh.

 Hulksmash wrote:
@Pomguo

I use them in the transports mostly for wrath of mars. So the full squads give me more mortals. I'd only split them if I was going special weapon crazy which I wouldn't with vanguard.

Also, I would say Mars is the only pure force. But cawl does make up for a lot of issues that come from today's meta.

Do you ever find taking 10 man vanguard squads being an issue with that ITC marked for death mission? They're PL7 and count for it. Same for rangers annoyingly

@MrMoustaffa
I would LOVE it if someone marks one of my Skitarii for death. I would just take him and immediately hide him in the deepest, darkest ruin I can find. I just paid 70-80 points for 1 VP.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
@Pomguo

I use them in the transports mostly for wrath of mars. So the full squads give me more mortals. I'd only split them if I was going special weapon crazy which I wouldn't with vanguard.

Also, I would say Mars is the only pure force. But cawl does make up for a lot of issues that come from today's meta.

Do you ever find taking 10 man vanguard squads being an issue with that ITC marked for death mission? They're PL7 and count for it. Same for rangers annoyingly

I will admit that my old list had 5 units of 10 models that were all PL7. So I gave that up on the regular. Both new lists actually play it better now. But they turn back over the 10+ Wound vehicles. It was 4 and now it's 7-9. But those are probably harder than 6-10 infantry. The power level thing for ITC is annoying, especially in older armies that jump from 4 to 7 by adding a single model over starting.

@Suzeto

I like your list. I wouldn't drop for the las dragoons. I know you love them but I don't think they play out well in exchange for crawlers and bots. I also think I just hate paying 80pts for 2 lascannon shots.

I think the skorpius just solves to many issues not to feature in any pure admech list. Hell I plan on starting any of my mixed imperial lists with Cawl plus crawlers and skorpius because they are so danged point efficient.

I'm going to test stuff out and see if the CC is required. I might be trying to hard to keep the current elements of my list but transitioning is hard. Still not sold on the robots. Dropping them gives me back a lot. But for now I wanna keep playing with CC support and all the bullets


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 Suzuteo wrote:
@MrMoustaffa
I would LOVE it if someone marks one of my Skitarii for death. I would just take him and immediately hide him in the deepest, darkest ruin I can find. I just paid 70-80 points for 1 VP.

This only works if someone forgets to bring non-los shooting in ITC. Which if they are picking that one they normally haven't.

@Hulksmash
40 points per Lascannon shot is not bad, given ours can get +2 to hit. The most efficient is still 26 each for Heavy Weapons, but they're BS4. If you account for that, they're effectively 43 points. (Or, more accurately, our Lascannons are effectively 24 points each.)

100% agreed. They have great durability and output. And the Mortar is great for taking out enemy non-LOS and a variety of meta threats.

In that case, I would hide them in a transport for the rest of the entire game. Gotta deny them secondaries.

@Hulksmash

Balistarii are very effective cost-wise. And surprisingly versatile. Dunestrider allows them to advance on 2d6 and shoot, with PDT at their full BS. So you can hunt down any vehicle on the map if you want, or make a cheeky grab of the objective at the far side of the map. Cognis Overwatch allows them to shoot Overwatch on their BS, and their bases are large enough to make capturing in combat difficult without double activation.

And if you want to skimp on points, 3 Autocannon Balistarii are eating a Demon Prince per shooting phase, as I found out just a week ago. Granted, you have to clear his screen beforehand, but high amount of dakka is not something Admech misses actually. And with the mortars, the hidden screen will no longer be a problem either.

useful video re- magnetising the Skorpius - see the last 5 mins or so.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AdeptusMechanicus/comments/c9qtqd/looks_like_itll_be_quite_easy_to_switch_between/

dadamowsky wrote:
@Hulksmash
Balistarii are very effective cost-wise. And surprisingly versatile. Dunestrider allows them to advance on 2d6 and shoot, with PDT at their full BS. So you can hunt down any vehicle on the map if you want, or make a cheeky grab of the objective at the far side of the map. Cognis Overwatch allows them to shoot Overwatch on their BS, and their bases are large enough to make capturing in combat difficult without double activation.

And if you want to skimp on points, 3 Autocannon Balistarii are eating a Demon Prince per shooting phase, as I found out just a week ago. Granted, you have to clear his screen beforehand, but high amount of dakka is not something Admech misses actually. And with the mortars, the hidden screen will no longer be a problem either.

Yeah. People miss out on how efficient Striders are once you squadron them up and give them +2 to hit. There is nothing out there that offers BS1 shooting at this price point. They also move very far (I find Dunestrider's best use is to snipe enemy characters that my opponent had thought safe) and have that surprise BS3 Overwatch. Finally, having S9 is valuable for fighting off Dreadnoughts. I find that most of our weapons are typically S6-7; the Grator's S8 gun will probably be less-used, and Ryzaphrons technically have S15 once you account for Plasma Specialists.

The only significant advantages of 3x Crawler are that they are much more durable and don't need CP to function.

Anyhow, I figured this would be better than cutting a Dakkabot:

Basically, shuffled things around, went down to 2x Mortar Grators. I will try it as 3x first though, but this army is pretty much identical to my current one, only with 2 Grators replacing my Breachers as the screen.

 The Forgemaster wrote:
useful video re- magnetising the Skorpius - see the last 5 mins or so.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AdeptusMechanicus/comments/c9qtqd/looks_like_itll_be_quite_easy_to_switch_between/

Yeah, looks like a pivot joint. So as long as the ramp is kept together, it's swappable. Just need some small magnets on the far side to hold it in better during transport.

What comes to my mind. Now we actually have bigger incentive to move balistari from the get go with transport that can shield for them. Most of line of sight blocking won't be enough to protect targets from balistarii if they can move 12 and have wall of transports that bodyblock any melee threat. That can actually be safe way to for example find that basilisk hiding in corner behind ruins and get good trade. Previously that maneuver was to dangerous now on other hand it may be doable.

Now I'm wondering on effectiveness of Arcriffle rangers vs Vanila vanguards in transport. Comparable point wise (43vs40) vanguards have more shoots and -T aura in combat. Rangers have better strength, higher maximum range but lover optimal range(12"vs18"). We now have stubbers for days, so amount of daka isn't big problem for us, while this squad could benefit from cheap upgrade in quality. I think that 4pts for this weapon is affordable and expendable at the same time. Maybe someone did the math? Previously it was no no, because we didn't have many ways to effectively use rapid-fire on rangers, but with transport that changed. Thoughts?

This 3rd place list is what fully optimized AdMech looks like https://www.40kstats.com/masterscity

.

Seems like this list is popping up repeatedly now with minor variations. Performing much better than Cawlstar Mars (which struggles as most pure gunlines do, I guess?) for results, anyway.

I never thought I'd see the day Katas outshined Cawlstar.

That list is far to match up dependent for me. Glad people are having success with variants using destroyers but that list cant beat flyers and that list is starting to pop up everywhere. It feels far to all in on a single unit. Kudos for him though

 Hulksmash wrote:
That list is far to match up dependent for me. Glad people are having success with variants using destroyers but that list cant beat flyers and that list is starting to pop up everywhere. It feels far to all in on a single unit. Kudos for him though

Thats the meta for ya. You need to be prepared for gatekeepers, and it smelts flyer lists by destroying everything else that list does have, either via kataphrons or fulgurites. But is weak against tau, and hat will hold it back. Other than that, standard list, works good(in ITC, in ETC not so much).

I'm listening to the Chaos Knights codex review and I think the Kataphrons meta might be ending. Because there's a possibility there will be a 4++ S9 knights, or double Avenger, one being S8 damage flat 3 knights. Or a cheaper (around 500 pts) Valiant with a Flamer +1S and +1D as well... Or all of them in the same list.

Get to your Lascannons wounding on 4+ boys.

 Spera wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
That list is far to match up dependent for me. Glad people are having success with variants using destroyers but that list cant beat flyers and that list is starting to pop up everywhere. It feels far to all in on a single unit. Kudos for him though

Thats the meta for ya. You need to be prepared for gatekeepers, and it smelts flyer lists by destroying everything else that list does have, either via kataphrons or fulgurites. But is weak against tau, and hat will hold it back. Other than that, standard list, works good(in ITC, in ETC not so much).

I feel like that's someone who hasn't dealt with a good flyer list. Without indirect fire that's a rough list to run in itc. I'm glad he did well but I cant see it carrying a larger event.

Quick question since you guys would know. Is there a time limit a model has to be out before it can be used in an ITC event? Had a TO tell me he thought it had to be out 30 days before the event but I'd never heard that one before. It's gonna be on the 20th this month so it definitely would be before the 30 day minimum.

If so that's gonna suck for this tournament. I really wanted to go pure admech but without Skorpius tanks I'm gonna have to ally some guard.

Rtt's where I am are just a week generally especially for single units and not codexes. Most gt's to my knowledge are 2 weeks. The 30 day was standard back during 7th but it's generally been shortened though each place has its foibles

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Quick question since you guys would know. Is there a time limit a model has to be out before it can be used in an ITC event? Had a TO tell me he thought it had to be out 30 days before the event but I'd never heard that one before. It's gonna be on the 20th this month so it definitely would be before the 30 day minimum.

If so that's gonna suck for this tournament. I really wanted to go pure admech but without Skorpius tanks I'm gonna have to ally some guard.

Grace period and its not only for units but game as a whole, errata faqs and so on. And it is what TO tells you.

There is also superb. Mars lists with Cawl and 30 Breacher .

But it s. More tankish and playy the mission while in the open field .

You can. Make a stygies list to defeat the planes but you will waste your list only or that .

I have already said about ryza + mixed / or 2-3 dogmas can be brutal.

Still the priests drills are more experienced and till more lethal but depend on playtyle . If you don't practice it it drops performance . Or you are not trained in melee oriented .
Said it again. Make a plan they work ATM. And ad mech is really playing hard now. Soon the Etc lists will be pubished I will post mine. you

 axisofentropy wrote:
This 3rd place list is what fully optimized AdMech looks like https://www.40kstats.com/masterscity

I posted this list in the old thread. I think it has a lot of bad matchups; the pilot says he struggles against Eldar and Tau. Very high risk.

Do you all use omnispexes? I know you should take boys over toys, but they seem like a good force multiplier for larger squads or MSU sniper rangers. The problem is that so many characters have invulns, and the arquebuses have good AP as is.

Looking at the data sheets, against most main HQ units (e.g. SM captain, guard commander) the AP is sufficient to deal with armor and cover before running into invulns. Secondary HQ units (e.g. librarians, tech priests, commissars, daemon princes strangely enough) don't seem to have many invulns so you can really eat into their armor save with an omnispex. Exceptions would include daemons, eldar, necrons, and ork HQ's in force fields (everything has an invuln) and nids, t'au, and ork HQ's out of force fields (who don't have as many strong invulns). But I don't know what to make this. It still seems like things could go either way.

dadamowsky wrote:
I'm listening to the Chaos Knights codex review and I think the Kataphrons meta might be ending. Because there's a possibility there will be a 4++ S9 knights, or double Avenger, one being S8 damage flat 3 knights. Or a cheaper (around 500 pts) Valiant with a Flamer +1S and +1D as well... Or all of them in the same list.

Get to your Lascannons wounding on 4+ boys.

If true this makes Neutrons wound easier than Las or Ryzaphrons, but I still feel like point-for-damage Ryzaphrons would likely still come on top just due to sheer volume of fire (Neutron’s D3 shots will always cripple it against any target with an invuln). Other than that not much difference to before.

Against T9, Neutron Crawlers would edge out because the damage stat is better (6 S10 shots versus 8 S9 shots) and because the body is more durable.

Problem is, Neutron Crawlers are inferior against the much more common T6-8. Also against anything with minus to hit.

Daemon Princes have a 5++, and rarely gain cover.

The main fear in the chaos knights is part of the same stratagem not a stock rule.
They suffer a mortal wound and roll a D3 to get +1T, +1S/D on a weapon, or +2move and +1 to advance/charge rolls. Or, suffer D3 mortals to choose one of them.

They will never be T9 AND have the bonus damage on the weapon and they risk suffering 3 mortal wounds to pick the one they want, which could easily offset the benefit from it in the first place.

Strong, but i wouldnt call it meta-defining.