Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes

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**the_Grak**

@Suzuteo: DJ Timms went 5-1 a couple of weeks ago using Graia Destroyers and Dakkabots, so mobile bots definitely seem viable.
He had 2 Graia battalions each being one of the special detachments, so I don't know how much you could plug it into your lists.
He also had 6 Stygies Dragoons that he used aggressively for board control. I assume this kept enough pressure off his destroyers/dakkabots for them to get some work in before having to spend CP once they got touched.

**lash92**

@Suzuteo:
I like both lists! Solid Mars Gunline with Stygies Dragoon for pressure / distraction and an Assassin.

@the_Grak:
I also saw this list and I´m pretty intrigued by it.

**Suzuteo**

@the_Grak
Yes, I saw that list. Initially, I was actually a bit critical of it, since it was Graia despite having the perfect setup for Ryza. However, I think I figured out why it works: by giving the Dominus the Graia WLT, the Robots (who have Assault weapons due to the Strafing Fire Run stratagem) and Destroyers can shoot into CC! (The latter with Flamers, if that is unclear.) This means it's virtually impossible to tie them up.

Still, not super sure about it. It can still just straight up lose to other shooting lists, due to the lack of mortal wounds from WoM, and maneuvering 11x Destroyers sounds painful.

**lash92**

Even maneuvering 9 Destroyers is painful, but hey we all also use 6 Dragoons

But not being able to be tied up is just such a huge boon.
Also note: Once you switch the flip on the robots you cant make their weapons assault anymore so max your Destroyers and infantry can shoot into CC.

**Suzuteo**

lash92 wrote:
Even maneuvering 9 Destroyers is painful, but hey we all also use 6 Dragoons
But not being able to be tied up is just such a huge boon.
Also note: Once you switch the flip on the robots you cant make their weapons assault anymore so max your Destroyers and infantry can shoot into CC.

Right. The strategy means you have to stay in Aegis to run and gun the entire time. Which is fine. You are durable, fast, and lots of strong S6 and S8 shooting. I actually think you can lose some Kataphrons and bring some Graia Blandguard in transports and play a Red Tide sort of army. I may give it a shot as a fun army.

I mean, I know for sure that the list I posted earlier would totally cream this army. Callidus to drain his CP pool, kill all of his impossible-to-hide Kataphrons on turn 1 with my Robots. Then outgun his Robots the next two turns. Hunt down stragglers with Mortars.

Anyhow, my thinking is this:
1) Robots counter all of our meta threats. Even in Aegis mode, they can threaten virtually anything due to Wrath of Mars.
2) Kataphrons with +1 to hit and reroll all have 88.88% chance to hit. Giving them +2 to hit and reroll 1s gives a 97.22% chance to hit, but costs 1 CP up front and 1 CP per turn. Mars also has safer plasma due to the ability to reroll all. So really, high cost for not much gained to run this non-Mars.
3) I should not expect to keep the Kataphrons alive against a significant shooting threat like Tau or Eldar. I should always seek to win by hitting harder than the opponent can hit me. Therefore, no need for the specialist detachment or its WLT.
4) I need some way to be able to remove enemies that hide out of LOS. Preferably, with enough firepower to reliably kill MSUs so I will always score Kill 1. This means 3x Mortar Grators. However, this is 333 points going into what is mostly a utility unit. It will have to double as my screen, and it seems to be decent for this role.
5) I can use Dragoons to threaten the opponent, block movement, and/or counter-charge.
6) I need an Assassin to handicap a lot of matchups, as my most vulnerable turn is turn one.

**lash92**

So in your list you are using the Kataphrons just for getting a +1 to hit for your Robots?

You are right with Kataphrons durability. Had a game recently against a competitve Guard list, where I could not hide my big unit of Ryzaphrons. He put Old Grudges on it and smoked the unit from the table T1, feels bad...

I second your point with the Assassin. Also he is super crucial against CC hordes, because an Eversor just eats Genestealers, Boys and Co.

**Ideasweasel**

This is what I’m tempted to try

Using coloured loom bands for the bases. Very similar to your list Suzuteo but I don’t rate the new transport and am not a fan of vanguards

*edited due to formatting death*

**Slayer-Fan123**

VladimirHerzog wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
So the new transport adds nothing of value. How is the tank though? It looks slightly silly but there's a charm to that.

the transport adds a lot to the army, it gives cheap mobility to our less mobile units, is a brick so it blocks line of sight and has decent weapons for its cost. Its job isnt to kill stuff.

So with the latest errata/faq, electropriests cannot use their feel no pain at all it seems? i think many people mightve played it wrong since ive seen it defended that you could choose which one to apply.

Q: Can a Graia model that has the Refusal to Yield ability
also make use of rules that allow them to ignore lost wounds,
such as Fanatical Devotion?
A: No.

For almost the cost of a Rhino, no it adds nothing of value. You can get a Drill instead. Also that didn't really answer my question.

**Vineheart01**

youre one of those people that think "if it cant kill big things or hordes of things on its own it sucks" arent you?

12 S4 shots at 36" hitting on 3s is nothing to scoff at, especially when its on a "useless" tank platform big enough to block a chokepoint or block LOS from something threatening your short models.
I guarantee nobody is gonna shoot it unless its got stuff inside or theres 0 other multiwound models to hit. That gives it annoyingly good area control with how huge it is for its cost. Unless were at like T4+ i would WANT you to shoot it because until that point i have much deadlier things those shots should be going to.

Area control is something a lot of people in 40k are immensely bad at handling. And by area control i dont mean "keeping everything dead in this spot of the map" i am referring to "forcing my opponent to act how i want him/her to act in this area"

**Slayer-Fan123**

Vineheart01 wrote:
youre one of those people that think "if it cant kill big things or hordes of things on its own it sucks" arent you?

12 S4 shots at 36" hitting on 3s is nothing to scoff at, especially when its on a "useless" tank platform big enough to block a chokepoint or block LOS from something threatening your short models.
I guarantee nobody is gonna shoot it unless its got stuff inside or theres 0 other multiwound models to hit. That gives it annoyingly good area control with how huge it is for its cost. Unless were at like T4+ i would WANT you to shoot it because until that point i have much deadlier things those shots should be going to.

Area control is something a lot of people in 40k are immensely bad at handling. And by area control i dont mean "keeping everything dead in this spot of the map" i am referring to "forcing my opponent to act how i want him/her to act in this area"

Yeah if I wanted area denial I can add in different units instead. The unit is useless, not durable, and a terrible transport.

**Suzuteo**

I don't think the transport is useless. It is fast, gives Skitarii legs (haha), blocks LOS for said Skitarii, provides good anti-infantry support, and above all else, is very cheap. The Rhino with a second Stormbolter is the closest you get, and the Rider gets 12x S4 shots to its 8x. These shots get Cognis rules too. The S6 vs. S7 is cancelled out by Canticles mostly; S7 has 4s instead of 3s to wound but 2s instead of 3s to save.

I can totally see a Stygies list with Riders. Infiltrate then advance onto an objective. Deploy the Rangers before or after depending on how far you need to go. Acquisition stratagem to hang onto the objective if they challenge you for it. It's 73+35 points to score two VP because very few people are going to go for this transport, and Rangers in Rapid Fire range plus the Stubbers can kill a lot of T3 and T4 infantry.

**lash92**

On Facebook I saw some similiar list idea with Plasma Vanguards.
Infiltrate Duneriders with Plasma Vanguard + Dragoons for max T1 pressure.

**VladimirHerzog**

So i tried out the skorpius in my first "real" game last weekend.

My list was :

Spoiler:

I played them in the past but it was against a friend that was beginning to play admech (was more of a coaching match).

As usual, this isnt high level tournament gameplay, its the weekly league night that we have at my LGS so my evaluation is from that point of view.

I ended up being matched against the "LGS Raidboss", he was playing a dreadnought salamander list (ran a c-beam contemptor, lascannon contemptor, autocannon leviathan, 2x redemptors, a chaplain dread, he played a droppod (?!) and the GW marines flier transport (storm something, i always mix them up. All in all, a pretty unique list as far as i can tell.

I ended up winning the game andit was in great part because of the transport. T1 i managed to lock one of his redemptor in combat with fulgurites and block off a chokepoint with my dunestrider. The dakka on my tanks + kataphrons managed to pop the other redemptor and bracket the flyer.

The redemptor ended up locked until t3 with my fulgurites/dunestrider, at which point the game was basically already decided because of the number of VP i had accumulated, still, he deepstruck the leviathan with the drop pod, chewed through my kataphrons in 2 turns while my infiltrators killed his warlord and locked themselves in combat agaisnt the drop pod on an objective to become untouchable.

Overall, the skorpius did great, having a fast moving cheap brick like the transport is great to give us some control on the enemy movement (kinda reminded my of when i play drukhari raiders, just a tad worse).
The 12" movement on the tanks was also great to reposition quickly.

I'll have to play them more but from a first impression, they did good.

**lash92**

By the way: AdMech with a strong showing at Midnight Sun GT making 1st(!) and 4th place. Also both lists featured our new mortar tank.

1st place:

Spoiler:

4th place:

Spoiler:

**VladimirHerzog**

hmm, is that first list literally just taking the maniple to spam 5++ invulns on its breachers?

also, im glad corpscarii are seeing some play.

**lash92**

Depending on the opponent you don't even need it tbh. Say you play against tau which have mass ap -1 and ap-2 then your 3+ gets to a 5+ max save a few weapons and you can spend the CP elsewhere.

I'm actually more intrigued, that both are Mars lists featuring 0 Robots!
And yeah also glad to see Electropriest. If you think about it there are great in the meta. Lots of S5 attack with many shots (great against plaguebearers, aberants, boys etc ). And being mars with double canticle you can reliable get the reroll 1 so they don't need to have a babysitter. And they make a decent replacement target for WoM. Sure not nearly as good as Robots or Infiltrators, but not bad either.

**VladimirHerzog**

lash92 wrote:
Depending on the opponent you don't even need it tbh. Say you play against tau which have mass ap -1 and ap-2 then your 3+ gets to a 5+ max save a few weapons and you can spend the CP elsewhere.

I'm actually more intrigued, that both are Mars lists featuring 0 Robots!
And yeah also glad to see Electropriest. If you think about it there are great in the meta. Lots of S5 attack with many shots (great against plaguebearers, aberants, boys etc ). And being mars with double canticle you can reliable get the reroll 1 so they don't need to have a babysitter. And they make a decent replacement target for WoM. Sure not nearly as good as Robots or Infiltrators, but not bad either.

Are the specialist detachment determined in listbuilding or could you choose not to pay the 1cp depending on the matchup?

**JNAProductions**

By RAW? Not part of list building.

But, ask your TO/opponent how they feel.

**lash92**

The specialist detachment has to be choosen when list building, but the stratagem for the 5++ you were talking about happens before each game.

**U02dah4**

All tourneys i've been to count it as list building as above with the 5++

**lash92**

You are running mainly ETC I suppose?

**U02dah4**

Mainly.

**Suzuteo**

@lash92
Yeah. The tanks have ridiculously point efficient shooting. They are mobile and have great LOS blocking too. As I pointed out before, if you thought Breachers had great shooting, consider that you can replace a 4x unit with a single Mortar Grator, which has even MORE dakka. It's also harder for Nids to chew through them.

Also, Ryzaphrons still outdamage the Ferrum Grators, but they're also really point efficient if you want to run Mars or Stygies. Two of them have better output than a Calladius. Downside is that you can only bring three of them.

Anyhow, I also kept looking for Dakkabots, but they weren't there. I get the concept of the list: it's just hyper-efficient on points. Mars gunline with 3x Mortars and 2x Crawlers, which is one of the concepts that I and Hulksmash have been pitching around. But why waste the CP for Servitor Maniple without any Servitors or Dominus? Just to waste more points on the 5++? Also would like to see Dragoons instead of the Drill + Priests, though I acknowledge that Jazz Hands are seriously underrated. Bringing them Lucius with Mars Infiltrators are two nice deep strike options.

My Stygies list from a couple of pages back:

Spoiler:

I might actually just run this competitively in the future, but I am behind on painting right now. Need to finish these Grators or suffer from Duncan's Disdain. (It's a house rule stratagem that lets you give one unit reroll hits against an unpainted unit. Though I guess I can just coat all my unpainted models in a layer of gray contrast. Haha.)

**axisofentropy**

lash92 wrote:
The specialist detachment has to be choosen when list building, but the stratagem for the 5++ you were talking about happens before each game.

I think this is correct.

**lash92**

U02dah4 wrote:
Mainly.

That´s the "problem". ITC lets you adjust those things on a game by game basis. This is also true for WLT, Psychic Powers etc.
If you also check the wording of the Specialist detachment stratagem and the 5++ one its worded pretty differently.

@Suzuteo:
I like the Stygies list! Lot´s of mobile efficient shooting and enough CP, since you only really rely on 1CP stratagems.

**Yoda79**

So the etc lists can be found now so I LL POSt mine.

I changed from my testing I had been doing from February mainly cause they faq changed the rules. And before you start about pure ad mech list to my own defence I really tried.

But a) new tank was not an option yet in etc lists . B) breachers screening reduce affe faq fly rule. C) it's an 8 man tour so there are some needs to be covered. D) specific tournament rules options etc.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spoiler:

The concept was to swap breacheers for exprcists while gain mobility from fliers as well as keeping high durability besides same dakka.

(+5 points cause manipulus is 85 in E TC with flamer )

**Octovol**

Anyone care to share their non-mars paint-job for their skorpius? Just trying finalise how im going to paint them, looking for inspiration but every one i see painted is just a box of a single colour which im not keen on.

**Suzuteo**

Octovol wrote:
Anyone care to share their non-mars paint-job for their skorpius? Just trying finalise how im going to paint them, looking for inspiration but every one i see painted is just a box of a single colour which im not keen on.

If you are patient, I will finish mine by Thursday night. It's a three-tone design of sky blue, basalt gray, and red ochre. With the usual silver and brass, of course. xD

**Heafstaag**

I have almost accidentally come into possession of 3 of the new dunestrider transports/tanks. They are not built as of now, and I was considering trading my admech anyway...

BUT

I don't think I will. It seems like the tank version are more plug and and play, but I like the look of the transports, and I'm thinking I'm going to build all 3 as the transports and pack them full of vanguard for a mobile element- maybe to keep up with...knights? maybe. I don't know. It not a lot of points to have 3 kitted out vanguard squads with the transports and send em out objective grabbing/blocking, attacking a flank/etc.

**Vineheart01**

i would have mine built/painted by now but my flgs accidentally ordered ironstriders for some reason lol.
I have them now but i dont paint quick enough to paint something that big in a day lol