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 CodeKantorBlue wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:
Google anime mecha from the 60s to the 80s and try not to see a bunch of multi color space marines. Most have large shoulders and flared legs.

Giant robots from Mazinger, Gundam (especially the Zaku) and even Macross. You can see where the space marine has its roots.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

There's only so many ways to articulate an armoured suit, some similarities are inevitable but coincidental. To say Space Marines are rooted in anime is to ignore what Citadel Miniatures were producing in the mid 80's and what their influences were. 40k is literally the original Warhammer in space with medieval fantasy sensibilities e.g. melee combat. The only futuristic designs Citadel were producing prior to that were based on 2000ad licenses. That's why the Space Marine bikes look like Judge Dredd's Lawmaster motorcycle.

The very first were just space knights, I agree. But the design that made GW millions and is the one everybody in the hobby is aware of is inspired by Japanese giant robot cartoons. And it is fine that they are. Those kinds of shows were pretty popular at the time (80s-90s) in the West and have very cool and noticable designs that would look great on the table (and did look great).

Jes acknowledges this so I think SM players who have been making fun of Tau need to come to terms with the fact that they have been playing the "anime" army all along (other than the Eldar who are so anime their guns shoot ninja stars).

Mandragola wrote:
Yeah, a Primaris codex is what I'd expect too. The range is now large enough to support itself.
I imagine it won't fully supersede the existing marine codex, but that maybe they'll leave the mini marines alone from now on.

I don't know, I'm kind of expecting to see something revising some things from the old Marines into single units rather than multi-units like they are now(Land Raiders, Terminators, Captains, Librarians, Chaplains, and Veterans notably) to kind of pare things down.

Looking at it:
3x Land Raider profiles that could be reworked into at least two.
Terminators are in 4 different profiles(Tartaros, Cataphractii, Assault, Terminator) that could be condensed into two(Assault and Terminator) that just have bespoke rules for Tartaros, Cataphractii, or 'vanilla'.
Captains have 4 profiles(Terminator/Cataphractii, Vanilla, Bike) that can be condensed into just a Captain profile with bespoke rules for the wargear they might buy.
Librarians and Chaplains have 3 profiles(Terminator, Jump Pack and Vanilla) which can do the same.
Veterans have 3 entries(Company, Sternguard, Vanguard) which could be rolled into one and given bespoke rules for wargear.

That's a whopping 20 profiles that could be rolled down into 8.
Hell, and I forgot Bikes and Attack Bikes! Could put them as a single squad option and bump 22 into 10. That's...yeah. That opens up some room for the Vanguard stuff.

I think they’ll print a primaris codex when they commit to squatting Space Marines.

Was there ever any more info on the that rumored codex for a chapter that’s never had their own before?

The silver Templars got their own background book with Warhammer conquest, but there were no new rules with it

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
The silver Templars got their own background book with Warhammer conquest, but there were no new rules with it

I like the helmet in the image shown in this thread. And the chest armor is different from standard mark x as well. Makes you wonder...

With all of Cawl’s upgrades he’s designed, I wonder if the Primaris rhino will have a forward ramp, or still just the back and sides.

 Kanluwen wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Rogerio134134 wrote:
I would love a re sculpt of centurions, I think the idea of them is good and they should be a replacement for deveststors but they need to look less terrible.

Looking forward to a new marine book and I might actually use my crimson fists as crimson fists for once instead of Deathwatch.

don't expect any major changes, just rolling new marine units into the book.

If this were the case, the book would have been out with Shadowspear and the CSM release.

no it wouldn't have, we've got new units upcoming, the book'll be out with the marine release that comes with the release of multipart kits of the shadowspear stuff

BrianDavion wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Rogerio134134 wrote:
I would love a re sculpt of centurions, I think the idea of them is good and they should be a replacement for deveststors but they need to look less terrible.

Looking forward to a new marine book and I might actually use my crimson fists as crimson fists for once instead of Deathwatch.

don't expect any major changes, just rolling new marine units into the book.

If this were the case, the book would have been out with Shadowspear and the CSM release.

no it wouldn't have, we've got new units upcoming, the book'll be out with the marine release that comes with the release of multipart kits of the shadowspear stuff

Sure it would have, because everything else could have came out around it too.

This has been a very long time frame between a release of monopose kits and the full kits with regards to the Vanguard stuff.

Will there be an option for units of Primaris Leftenents? That is what's holding me back from starting Space Marines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And will they be led by Primaris Rightenents?

 Kanluwen wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Rogerio134134 wrote:
I would love a re sculpt of centurions, I think the idea of them is good and they should be a replacement for deveststors but they need to look less terrible.

Looking forward to a new marine book and I might actually use my crimson fists as crimson fists for once instead of Deathwatch.

don't expect any major changes, just rolling new marine units into the book.

If this were the case, the book would have been out with Shadowspear and the CSM release.

no it wouldn't have, we've got new units upcoming, the book'll be out with the marine release that comes with the release of multipart kits of the shadowspear stuff

Sure it would have, because everything else could have came out around it too.

This has been a very long time frame between a release of monopose kits and the full kits with regards to the Vanguard stuff.

Not really. GW never releases two big releases at once, those cannibalize sales (someone like me who plays both armies would have proably spent half of what they will with this release schedule)

let's consider some facts here. The last boxed set similer to Shadowspear we got, introduceing two armies worth of new units, was Dark Imperium. Which gave us wave 1 of Primaris marines, and Deathguard.

Dark Imperium was released in June 2017, followed by Space Marines in July 2017 as the first major codex release of 8th edition. Deathguard waited until september 2017 a good 3-4 months later.

now then Shadowspear and Codex Chaos Space Marines came out in March. it is now July. about 4 months later. so assuming a late July to early/mid august releaste date.. it's a good 4 or so months late.

Meanwhile Deathwatch Overkill came out for 7th edition in Febuary 2016, and it took until the SUMMER for GW to finally put out codex death watch and GSC. a 6 and 7th month wait respectivly.

So despite your claiming it's a "very long time" when one steps back and looks at GW's past release schedules. if the new Marines Vanguard stuff comes out in Late July or sometime in August...

It's actually about right on schedule.

I'm not getting into this in-depth, but suffice to say:

If they were concerned about "cannibalizing sales"? They wouldn't have released the CSM full kit within 2 weeks of the box.
Death Guard was a full range release, not simply resculpts or a few characters. Anyone expecting them immediately after the drops we saw in the start of 8th(Primaris was effectively a whole range drop and we saw a huge chunk of books released between DI and DG, including GK and CSM) was deluding themselves.
Deathwatch: Overkill was a board game, previewing a new range...and it was while they were working on 40k 8th edition.

Last but not least, we literally have had things implied that after Sororitas are released? They've got plans to revise the early released books.

Oh, and if I want to add another footnote:
Look at the way Stormcast were done.

Deathwatch: Overkill was a board game, previewing a new range...and it was while they were working on 40k 8th edition.

irrelevant both death weatch and GSC came out for 7th edition.

my point is simply that the wait has, when one looks at the facts not been super long.

If they were concerned about "cannibalizing sales"? They wouldn't have released the CSM full kit within 2 weeks of the box.

Irrelevant, I bought a buncha CSMs and shadowspear.

if they had had the vanguard come out alongside CSMs I would have had to make a chocie as to what to buy. I am one of the people who plays both Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
Yeah, a Primaris codex is what I'd expect too. The range is now large enough to support itself.
I imagine it won't fully supersede the existing marine codex, but that maybe they'll leave the mini marines alone from now on.

I don't know, I'm kind of expecting to see something revising some things from the old Marines into single units rather than multi-units like they are now(Land Raiders, Terminators, Captains, Librarians, Chaplains, and Veterans notably) to kind of pare things down.

Looking at it:
3x Land Raider profiles that could be reworked into at least two.
Terminators are in 4 different profiles(Tartaros, Cataphractii, Assault, Terminator) that could be condensed into two(Assault and Terminator) that just have bespoke rules for Tartaros, Cataphractii, or 'vanilla'.
Captains have 4 profiles(Terminator/Cataphractii, Vanilla, Bike) that can be condensed into just a Captain profile with bespoke rules for the wargear they might buy.
Librarians and Chaplains have 3 profiles(Terminator, Jump Pack and Vanilla) which can do the same.
Veterans have 3 entries(Company, Sternguard, Vanguard) which could be rolled into one and given bespoke rules for wargear.

That's a whopping 20 profiles that could be rolled down into 8.
Hell, and I forgot Bikes and Attack Bikes! Could put them as a single squad option and bump 22 into 10. That's...yeah. That opens up some room for the Vanguard stuff.

Could go even further, especially if they loosened the "no part in the box, no options" limit.
Captain- option to take bike or jump pack. Or swap armor and weapons for indomitus, cataphractii or tartaros armor and terminator wargear (drops 5 entries into one with 6 options)
Primaris captain- weapon options, or trade armor and weapons for gravis armor or phobos armor and matching gear(drops 3 entries into 1)
Librarian- jump pack, TDA, bike options. (3 entries into 1 with 4 options)
Primaris Librarian- can swap for phobos armor and vanguard powers (2 entries into 1)
Chaplain- jump pack, TDA, bike options (2 entries into 1 with 4 options)
Primaris Lieutenant- Phobos Armor option (2 entries into 1)
Ancient- one per can upgrade to chapter ancient. (2 entries into 1)
Company veterans- may upgrade into either sternguard, vanguard, or honor guard. Vanguard get extra ccw and options for jump packs, Honour guard get artificer armor, sternguard get special issue ammo (4 entries into 1)
Champion- one per army can upgrade into chapter champion (2 entries into 1)
Terminators- allow mixed assault and melee squads. May upgrade to tartaros or cataphractii armor. (4 entries into 1)
Dreadnought- may upgrade to venerable or ironclad (3 entries into 1)
Land Raider- Crusader loadout base, may swap hurricane bolters for flamestorm cannons and fuel tanks -4 troop capacity, or lascannons and capacitors (-6 troop capacity) Freely swap heavy bolters or assault cannons. (3 entries into 1)
Repulsor- freely swap hull and rear weapons and pintle mount, may swap normal turret and side storm bolters for executioner turret. (2 entries into 1)

37 entries into 13 with more customization options.

sadly well this wpould save space it seems GW is avoiding this from a design philophsy POV, but the question is, will Marines force GW to change this design philophesy for a future edition? I think so. the Marine codex is getting to a size where GW's going to have to make a hard choice. and it'll come down to the following.

1: Trim out old or "unnesscary" units. (GW could for example expand the options terminators can take and just treat cataphracti and taratos as purely a cosmetic choice. They could also drop vanguard and sternguard veterns and simply make them "veterns") this would limit choices and see some grumbling.

2: Divide the space marine codices into codex Space Marines and Codex Primaris Marines. this runs the risk of embedding the old vs new community divide and IMHO is proably the worst choice here.

3: change their "data sheet for every variation of a unit" philoiphesy and go back to the old "one data sheet that is modded by wargear that you know the rules for. such as a single captain entry that simply says "may upgrade to terminator armor fo X points. may take a jump [ack for Y points")

IMHO 3 would be the most popular choice for the player base, and I suspect 1 might be where GW might consider going. I mean right now company veterns is something I could very easily see being cut.

My guess is from the (admittedly blurry) bits shown that it'll be a Primaris command squad with lots of bits and options so that they can open up some choices for the models.

 warboss wrote:
My guess is from the (admittedly blurry) bits shown that it'll be a Primaris command squad with lots of bits and options so that they can open up some choices for the models.

Ooo, I could maybe see that. Maybe a dual kit of Infiltrators (there are definitely Infiltrators based on the image with the hands point at the Lieutenant) and a Command Squad?

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 warboss wrote:
My guess is from the (admittedly blurry) bits shown that it'll be a Primaris command squad with lots of bits and options so that they can open up some choices for the models.

Ooo, I could maybe see that. Maybe a dual kit of Infiltrators (there are definitely Infiltrators based on the image with the hands point at the Lieutenant) and a Command Squad?

could be, or it could be they where previewing a 5 man command squad and a 5 man infiltrator squad to throw us off scent. remember back when Primaris first came out, you could buy 5 man combat squad boxes?

 warboss wrote:
My guess is from the (admittedly blurry) bits shown that it'll be a Primaris command squad with lots of bits and options so that they can open up some choices for the models.

Would be a really easy way to release an Ancient and some Lieutenants outside of Dark Imperium...but I'm not expecting Command Squads for Primaris personally.

I would expect stuff to end up more akin to the Heresy/Crusade organization thanks to Guilliman's influence. It's why I'm wondering if what appears to be a model wearing a camo-cloak in that group shot might be our first look at a Moritat-inspired Lieutenant.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 warboss wrote:
My guess is from the (admittedly blurry) bits shown that it'll be a Primaris command squad with lots of bits and options so that they can open up some choices for the models.

Would be a really easy way to release an Ancient and some Lieutenants outside of Dark Imperium...but I'm not expecting Command Squads for Primaris personally.

I would expect stuff to end up more akin to the Heresy/Crusade organization thanks to Guilliman's influence. It's why I'm wondering if what appears to be a model wearing a camo-cloak in that group shot might be our first look at a Moritat-inspired Lieutenant.

my guess is he'll be the primaris Lt in Phobos armor, and when the full codex drops we'll have a choice of eaither the grav chute or cloak


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So I'm going to make a prediction. Pre-orders of Augest tenth. my reasons? we have Volume 2 of the Uriel Ventris Chronicals AND Knights of Macragge both up for pre-order that day. GW doesn't really tie novel releases into mini releases too much anymore and the more obvious releases when they do, tend not to be advertised, but given we have two ultramarine books both valaibler at the same time makes we suspect.

 warboss wrote:
Whoah.. my throwaway joke about the Quebecois...



I suppose it is thematic to have former colonial overlords making fun of the provincial American accents though given that tomorrow is the 4th of July. It makes me glad to live in America where we only need to look from sea to shining sea for a wealth of silly accents! From my personal New England favs like NY/NJ extra on a gangster movie to the Da Bears superfan to the unintelligible at times Southern drawl to the nails on a chalkboard that is Boston's take on English, we need to look no further! Happy 4th of July tomorrow!

I know we've moved on, but hold up a second here. Did you just say NY/NJ were New England?

Them's fightin' words, boy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 zend wrote:
I think they’ll print a primaris codex when they commit to squatting Space Marines.

Was there ever any more info on the that rumored codex for a chapter that’s never had their own before?

Rumours continue to point to it being White Scars.

First Primaris(SW) SC box incoming https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/07/07/coming-soon-something-for-everyone/.

GoatboyBeta wrote:
First Primaris(SW) SC box incoming https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/07/07/coming-soon-something-for-everyone/.

Not a bad deal, but not a great deal. unless I've miscalculated, basicly you get the space Wolf Battle leader and a space wolf primaris upgrade for free. this'll be a decent deal for space wolf players but it's not something non space wolf primaris players are going to line up to buy. Know no Fear is proably still the best start collecting box for basic primaris.

Disagree. KNF isn't full kits while this is.

Someone can also resell the Space Wolf Battle Leader and Primaris Upgrade or even just use it for making some Deathwatch if they so chose.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Disagree. KNF isn't full kits while this is.

Someone can also resell the Space Wolf Battle Leader and Primaris Upgrade or even just use it for making some Deathwatch if they so chose.

Ok. Looks ETB to me though.

JWBS wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Disagree. KNF isn't full kits while this is.

Someone can also resell the Space Wolf Battle Leader and Primaris Upgrade or even just use it for making some Deathwatch if they so chose.

Ok. Looks ETB to me though.

it's not. it's essentially the contents of tooth and claw sans the dreadnought.

JWBS wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Disagree. KNF isn't full kits while this is.

Someone can also resell the Space Wolf Battle Leader and Primaris Upgrade or even just use it for making some Deathwatch if they so chose.

Ok. Looks ETB to me though.

All the models have sculpted pads from the SW upgrade sprue. Those are not compatible with the ETB kits.

I wonder if the other codex variant chapters will get a box as well? Instead of Agressors BA could have Inceptors and the DA could have a 5 man Helblaster squad. While a vanilla box without any upgrade sprues could have two 10 man squads.

BrianDavion wrote:

GoatboyBeta wrote:
First Primaris(SW) SC box incoming https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/07/07/coming-soon-something-for-everyone/.

Not a bad deal, but not a great deal. unless I've miscalculated, basicly you get the space Wolf Battle leader and a space wolf primaris upgrade for free. this'll be a decent deal for space wolf players but it's not something non space wolf primaris players are going to line up to buy. Know no Fear is proably still the best start collecting box for basic primaris.

Got to agree, I aren't sure why they used the wolves for this, does feel like if it ditched the wolves sprue and the battle leader, pop in a librarian/chaplain/captain, bang a £50 sticker on and enjoy the sales.

Dudeface wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

GoatboyBeta wrote:
First Primaris(SW) SC box incoming https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/07/07/coming-soon-something-for-everyone/.

Not a bad deal, but not a great deal. unless I've miscalculated, basicly you get the space Wolf Battle leader and a space wolf primaris upgrade for free. this'll be a decent deal for space wolf players but it's not something non space wolf primaris players are going to line up to buy. Know no Fear is proably still the best start collecting box for basic primaris.

Got to agree, I aren't sure why they used the wolves for this, does feel like if it ditched the wolves sprue and the battle leader, pop in a librarian/chaplain/captain, bang a £50 sticker on and enjoy the sales.

because by doing this they can get people looking for a space wolf specific Primaris HQ to spend 100 bucks instead of 30.

BrianDavion wrote:

JWBS wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Disagree. KNF isn't full kits while this is.

Someone can also resell the Space Wolf Battle Leader and Primaris Upgrade or even just use it for making some Deathwatch if they so chose.

Ok. Looks ETB to me though.

it's not. it's essentially the contents of tooth and claw sans the dreadnought.

Ah ok. Looking at the T&C marines they've done a better job of showcasing that it's a full kit squad there than they have done here. Should the Aggressors have some sort of missiles if they're full spec, or are those just optional bits?

JWBS wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

JWBS wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Disagree. KNF isn't full kits while this is.

Someone can also resell the Space Wolf Battle Leader and Primaris Upgrade or even just use it for making some Deathwatch if they so chose.

Ok. Looks ETB to me though.

it's not. it's essentially the contents of tooth and claw sans the dreadnought.

Ah ok. Looking at the T&C marines they've done a better job of showcasing that it's a full kit squad there than they have done here. Should the Aggressors have some sort of missiles if they're full spec, or are those just optional bits?

They should if they're built with boltstorm gauntlets if you look closely you'll be able to see the ones in the preview pic are built with flamers. The agressors in T&C where built the same way. This really IS T&C without the dread