Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Was looking at the power levels. and point changes in the new FAQ. Our Chaos Tyrant with volcano cannon is as cheap as the imperial version now at 635 points. That is rather interesting. You can take a superheavy detachment with that as the warlord, and 2 war dogs, and you would still have at least 1000 points to take something else in another detachment if you want to soup.

Another thing I just thought about. I know the missions have been tough for us. But has anyone considered taking a superheavy detachment of 1 Tyrant, and like 6 war dogs ? The war dogs are not titanic. So, even if they kill the Tyrant, they can't max points VP for that titan killing secondary. And 1 titanic and 6 war dogs can run around and cover a lot more ground and objectives than say 4 titanics.

Also, you can place say 2 of the war dogs in reserve so they come in from the flanks on either turn 2 or 3.

Also another point about reserves. Has another considered putting a Harpoon and confrag cannon Tyrant into reserve? Based on the faq, it costs 4 CP which is hefty. But we get more CP to play with anyway in the new edition.

A confrag cannon Tyrant's guns are all mid ranged anyway. So, it gets no benefit starting on the board on 1st turn to be shot at. Coming in on turn 2 at the flanks of the midboard, 9 inches away almost seems like the perfect range for it. Literally all of its guns (even the 4 melta guns), will be in range the minute it comes from strategic reserves 9 inches from the opponent. And it would be able to roast a ton of stuff. Then pay full tilt to make a 7 inch charge onto a mid board objective and kill even more stuff. It sounds really cool to me. The table size is smaller now, and knights can step over infantry models to get where they want. So, once the knight is in the midboard, just about anything will be within its reach from there.

also, with the conflagration tyrant - none of its primary weapons are blast, so you can still use them, and the double meltas in CC.

I was thinking about melee knights yesterday... Infernal household might be good for more melee centric knights. The infernal demon surge can choose to give a +2 to move and a +1 to advance and charge. Combine that with full tilt (advance and charge), and then take warlord eager for the kill that gives yet another +1 to advance and charge. Now you have a total of +2 move, +2 to advance and then +2 to charge (which is a net +6).

So, your infernal knight with the surge will have a treat range of 12 + 6 + 3d6 ... lol. That is a maximum potential treat range of 36 inches lol. If there is space, you could literally be deep within enemy deployment zone with one move advance + charge.

Plus as a dreadblade, you can pick negative dreadpact damnations that basically don't matter to a melee knight like warp rage (as if a melee knight will ever fall back from combat lol).

Meanwhile, some dreadblade pacts like Archfiend are amazing on such a melee knight. Imagine having a treat range of 36 inches already, and then after you wipe out something in combat, to have a potential heroic intervention range of 6 inches lol,

That relic chain blade The Teeth That Hungers is also amazing on a melee knight. its like a chainsword, so you always get a +1 attack from it, even if you used your stompy feet against some infantry. Also, the same warlord trait Eager for the kill also gives you a +1 attack for being wholly in opponent's deployment zone. With a 36 inches treat range, not going to be difficult to get into enemy deployment zone and the negative from the relic chain blade, which is it may cause a mortal wound on you if it doesn't kill a model, is much less of a negative on a melee knight that can and will be fighting in melee every round.

So, on turn 1, an infernal Rampager with the warlord trait and relic blade which I described above can move advance and charge potentially 36 inches to end up wholly within enemy deployment zone, and after that, will have 7 relic reaper chain blade attacks (which explodes for more hits on 6s) and do str 16, -4 AP, damage 6 attacks on a WS of 2... lol

Oh, and screens don't really work that well on such a knight, since it can literally move over infantry models. Can it charge over infantry models as well? (Not sure). anyway, an opponent who is playing you the first time and doesn't deploy properly is in for a world of hurt if you go first lol.

Run a custom household with Abominable Constitution and swap in the Quicksilver Throne. Move 15”, advance D6+3, charge 2D6+3. Averages out to 31”. You won’t kill as much on arrival, and I have to assume that gimmick will only work on someone once, but still.

Its very fierce if your opponent isn't prepared for it. I almost feel as if I shouldn't be explaining what exactly it can do before the game... :X

Anyway, I only have 3 knights and zero wardogs, so I am kind of fiddling around with lists which are 3 knights plus soup. Because I am not sure if going all in knights makes it just so hard to play the mission.

So, I don't know if I should be posting this here or on the daemons thread. I am thinking of 3 knights souped with daemons to shore up the knights weaknesses, which is they have trouble with objectives because they prefer to be fighting rather than sitting on objectives.

So, whats a good nurgle patrol for maybe 500 to 600 points to have that can shore up knight weaknesses ? I would definitely go nurgling, but what else? Even a mixed daemons patrol can be considered. Or maybe tons of horrors instead? Because knights prefer to kill big stuff or elite stuff instead of horde infantry.

If maybe even a nurgle mixed CSM faction instead of nurgle daemons so that I have more options. Because beyond the nurglings, not sure what else would synergise with a 3 knights main force.

Expanding on that, maybe instead a nurgle patrol souped in with 2 nurglings troops and 1 pox walker troop. Then a plague burst crawler and a Nurgle CSM sorceror. So, the Plague burst crawler can stay in the backfield, lob shells and be resilient. 1 pox walker troop also as backfield objective holder. And the 2 nurgling troops as mid board objective holders. And the nurgle CSM sorceror provides psychic.

I soup knights and daemons/csm quite a bit, and if you only have 500-600pts to spare, I think you can't really improve upon:

Exalted Lord of Change, Impossible Robe

5xNurglings

5xNurglings

5xNurglings

550pts, -4CP

 grouchoben wrote:
I soup knights and daemons/csm quite a bit, and if you only have 500-600pts to spare, I think you can't really improve upon:

Exalted Lord of Change, Impossible Robe

5xNurglings

5xNurglings

5xNurglings

550pts, -4CP

So based on your experience, do you think the power of 3 knights is enough? Because other than being objective holders, the nurglings will literally be nothing else.

The LoC is a significant dude too, and can be tailored to do different jobs in your lists - either tanking or AoE mortal wounds for example.

(I prefer to soup with World Eaters, personally.)

A castigator, a desecrator and a tyrant could fit in with that daemon patrol, with a little bit of trimming. That's not a very friendly list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
(My standard WE list is chaos lord, 3x5 zerkers, 3 rhinos, 3 big knights, and about 80pts spare to spend.)

Hmm, interesting. So do you run the shooty Tyrant or the harpoon tyrant? I am really tempted to spend the 3 CP to reserve a harpoon Tyrant to see how that goes.

With some very mean all vehicle lists kicking around, I think a lot of lists are bringing more anti-tank these days. I don't know if I would call 3 knights unfriendly ... lol

I don't really run tyrants that much tbh, I much prefer knights in the 400s range.

Agreed on the anti-tank meta, with eradicator spam being a bit of a pain for knights.

Most of my lists leave me with 695pts for soup - daemons fit okay, as do zerkers, and while nurglings bring some of the best obsec in the game, I've had more success letting zerkers profit in the shadow of 3 big knights, and pulling surviving rhinos to sit on base objectives T2 onwards. It's a hell or high water kind of list, as your opponent can maybe kill your rhinos or a knight turn one, but either way you can inflict a big damage spike turn two.

Hey guys,
A few things to report: I’ve just finished my 4th game of 9th and second with Chaos Knights. The game now being all about objectives can’t be overstated and at first I felt I would really struggle with that. In the end, I think Knights (especially the Valiant Tyrant!) are very well suited to threatening and flattening any enemy units that have to venture to any non-home objectives. The Conflagration Cannon in particular is a melter of all that is objective secured. I focused on running durability on the Tyrant, going Vow of Dominance, Veil and Herpetrax for the Zombie warlord trait.
Looking to the future , I’m planning on running WarDog heavy, all using the glaive/melta with Harrying Packs and the Constitution traits. Since we don’t have bodies unless we ally them in, having ultrafast wardogs that can fall forward out of combat and still charge seems to be a nightmare for opponents trying to hold objectives.

Has there been more thought into custom houses?

Hey, what do you think about this list for 1000 pts (solo and doubles) ?

Iconosclast
Custom house (abominable and fueled Fury)

Melee despoiler (4++ Relic and Obsec WLT)

Melee despoiler dreadblade (5++ Relic and + + 1M/1A if wholly within enemy zone)

Wardog with autocanons

Thanks a lot !

Looks awesome, in a 1k game, I’m not sure most armies have many good answers for two
Knights, let alone ones that are running at you to smash your brains in. I’m not sure Pride Fueled Fury is the best choice but I could be very wrong seeing in how many times I’ve had a low wound knight stumble into combat and completely crap the bed.

Let us know how it goes!

Is there a reason we wouldn’t play 3 x Shooty Tyrant with the Endless Torment trait? Isn’t this enough fire power to really take down anything threatening to them in a single round of shooting and leave us about 90 points for summoning nurglings?

Are Chaos Knights competitive? I just picked up this battlegroup and the first thing I noticed is a decided lack of firepower. Other than the Tyrant of course.

Of course Chaos Knights are competitive. Too much focus is put on lists and results from high level play. The reality of large tournaments is that the granular nature of armies and lists only really comes into play at the top tier of the events. Player skill trumps army book choice and it isn’t close.

Knights (both loyal and chaos) are a unique skew army that some folks and armies just can’t deal with. If a player can’t play around mass T8 wounds with invulnerable saves, you’re probably going to win. If they can down a knight a turn or *gasp* even two a turn, you’re probably going to lose. This is why pure knights lists aren’t taken often and why knights with allies were much more popular in 8th. Allies used to serve two roles: command point generation and board control with screening. Those were the main two weaknesses of knights in 8th and allies fixed that.

In 9th, taking allies costs command points but are probably still needed to actually score on the primary and complete secondary actions. This is a discussion that is all but dead on these boards, especially on the imperial side where it’s basically doom and gloom.

IMO, chaos demons in the flavor of Nurglings shore up a big problem with pure chaos knights. Early deployment of ob sec units on objectives can start a scary uphill battle for your opponents. Again, people focus on lists when they should be focusing on a plan.

I feel like I’m rambling but whatever.

The problem with Knights is that you don't have to kill them in order to beat them. You just have to out-score them. They are bad at holding objectives and scoring secondary objectives, and offer really good secondary objectives to the opponent. Until something changes I think Knights are toward the bottom of all army options.

I’ve been working on some very Warglaive heavy lists using a custom Iconoclast house running Constitution and Pride fueled Fury. The list runs around with the idea of having very quick melee focused Wardogs as the primary threat backed up by 2 Thermal Knights, 1 thermal knight/1 desecrator or 1 shooty tyrant, each with enough points to summon at least 1 (or in some cases three!) units of nurglings onto objectives off of one of the shooting big boys.


The army build disincentives taking titan Hunter (especially the single tyrant build) and wants your opponent to take bring it down instead. Since your trait allows severely wounded Dogs to move at full and fight at basically the same efficiency with even 1w left, your opponent can’t simply ‘disable’ your dogs into oblivion.

Seems like a fun one to play and will plan on reporting back on how it goes, have a game against Ad Mech in a week or so.

I'm liking all this talk of needing War Dogs

How do people think my existing Iconoclast Household will fair in 9th edition

1 Desecrator (warp haunted hull, the diamonas, thunderstrike gauntlet)
1 Despoiler (tzeentchian pyrothrone, avenger gatling cannon, thermal cannon)
4 War Dogs (thermal spear, reaper chain cleaver)
2 War Dogs (war dog autocannons)

I love the list idea, they can’t max Titan Hunter and as I said, I love the melee WarDog. I’m not sold on paying more points for a worse load out (the auto cannons) and if you have the arms magnetized, I would try running them all as Warglaives. What traits are you using?

 Brymm wrote:
I love the list idea, they can’t max Titan Hunter and as I said, I love the melee WarDog. I’m not sold on paying more points for a worse load out (the auto cannons) and if you have the arms magnetized, I would try running them all as Warglaives.

No, not magnetised, but I've always found the autocannons quite good.

 Brymm wrote:
What traits are you using?

I've not actually played my Chaos Knights since before the pandemic hit, and I didn't buy Engine War. What would you recommend?

The list of the premade households and custom traits are available both on BattleScribe and the Warhammer 40K app and I believe the actual pages are linked somewhere on Imgur.

I don’t have a strong pull to any of the premade households as each of the specific relics and warlord traits aren’t that good IMO. The custom trait chart is pretty cool though and you can take some pretty incredible bonuses. Endless Torment is a custom trait that allows a reroll for the number of shots of a random gun PER GUN is just crazy, upping damage across the board for the whole army.

Alas mobility and survivability to get to and score objectives seems to be paramount in 9th, so I tend to focus on traits to support that.

 Brymm wrote:
The list of the premade households and custom traits are available both on BattleScribe and the Warhammer 40K app

I do use Battlescribe, I've just not really thought to look through the Engine War additions.

 Brymm wrote:
Endless Torment is a custom trait that allows a reroll for the number of shots of a random gun PER GUN is just crazy, upping damage across the board for the whole army.

Now that does sound useful for autocannons and thermal weapons (of which my list has 9 in total).

I should clarify, you reroll a SINGLE die per gun, so if the auto cannons are 2d3 shots per gun, you can reroll a single d3 per gun. This still ups their productivity quite a bit, it’s not as good as rerolling all of them.

It really shines on dual thermal knights who can reroll both of the thermals and the missile rack up top.

Personally, I have been building towards a single melee despoiler with melta and Stormspears and a bunch of the most expensive War Dogs with a patrol of TS under the Cult of Duplicity. I have been building with House Lucaris mostly.

Why? Iconoclast rules increase the melee capacity of the War Dogs, and I have been giddy at the idea of a despoiler that auto hits in melee, striking first in combat. Which means, do I want to autohit with 6 chainswords or 18 stomps?

Why the most expensive War Dogs and the melta\Stormspear on the Despoiler? None of them are blast, meaning that I can use them in melee. Why the meltas? A disencentive for melee. Why TS\Cult of Duplicity? DP with Death Hex (No Invuls) & Sorcerous Facade (Redeploy\DS).

Adding 1 to hit rolls that are already 2+ doesn’t make them automatically hit, a natural 1 always fails. Stacking a +1 to a 2+ WS allows you to bypass a single -1 to hit modifier though. If you’re using a 2+ WS model and want to squeeze the last bit out of them, you probably want to get a reroll 1s buff on them, again unless you expect to be fighting a -1 hit army.

On the wardogs though, since they are 3+ WS a +1 to hit buff is HUGE, and I imagine it will probably make the whole plan worth it.

So I haven't played 9th (at all really) and just started putting together a semi-fun list. I wanted to run a super-heavy detachment of only armiger moiraxs... Battlescribe is throwing me an error as I don't have a character in the detachment(?) but when I reference the CK Codex, Engine war and the 9th edition tome (and faqs) i'm not finding where it needs me to take a character to complete this detachment.

I must be missing something very obvious - can a kind soul point me in the right direction (Page number or FAQ)?

As a P.S. to make this CK relevant - is there a widely regarded 'best' loadout for moiraxs after the IA update? I've run my titanics as iconoclast historically (taking mortals sucks) but by the same token i'm thinking about giving infernal a whirl with the lightning locks - the negative 2 AP with ignore cover etc. (effectively neg 3 against stealthy etc.) looks promising - and I can pump one gun per armiger (For d3 mortals though [ouch!]).

orkswubwub wrote:
So I haven't played 9th (at all really) and just started putting together a semi-fun list. I wanted to run a super-heavy detachment of only armiger moiraxs... Battlescribe is throwing me an error as I don't have a character in the detachment(?) but when I reference the CK Codex, Engine war and the 9th edition tome (and faqs) i'm not finding where it needs me to take a character to complete this detachment.

I must be missing something very obvious - can a kind soul point me in the right direction (Page number or FAQ)?

As a P.S. to make this CK relevant - is there a widely regarded 'best' loadout for moiraxs after the IA update? I've run my titanics as iconoclast historically (taking mortals sucks) but by the same token i'm thinking about giving infernal a whirl with the lightning locks - the negative 2 AP with ignore cover etc. (effectively neg 3 against stealthy etc.) looks promising - and I can pump one gun per armiger (For d3 mortals though [ouch!]).

try making one of them a dreadblade, or barring that consider taking a desecrator for the rerolls. A single titanic model isn't a terrible investment... especially if you choose to keep it in reserve until turn 3.

Thanks for the feedback - doesn't adding the titanic make it start costing 6 CP instead of 3CP? Seems a heavy investment. I wanted to run it with magnus who is kind of my pseudo knight.

P.S. Thanks for the dreadblade suggestion cleared it up in battlescribe - i found the sentence where a character is chosen (even a wardog) on page 62 of ck codex for super heavy detachments.

So the list I'm thinking of is:
3x keeper of secrets
3x 10x deamonettes
Magnus
4 Moirax armigers (1 unit of 2, 2 units of 1) - All infernal with dual lighting locks

Basically just go for objectives / banners if needed with daemonettes and sit in back field with armigers while magnus gives access to deathhex and some mortal wound output (plays midfield with armigers) while the KOS (all exalted - likely -1 to wound) fly up the board and distract opponent for hopefully 2-3 turns... I would run the dreadblade with the +1 CP Strat so I'm only paying -2 to take the super heavy detachment - adding the exalted for the KOS I think the list arrives with 7 CP (Magnus will be warlord).

There is some flex as the 4th moirax armiger could become an aegis for each KOS and inject 3x fiends... have to play around with it a bit.

With the moirax's kitted this way I was thinking of going Warpvision custom house - the extra AP against termies etc. in cover (takes them from a 1 up to a 4up) might make the lightning locks a bit more meaty when they connect (should be wounding most non-custodes on 3?)

The other way I was looking at it would be to maybe take all graviton pulsars and go with either endless torment (more consistent guns) or be daring and think about dark forging for the range + 1 other houshold trait (going from 24 to 30 inch range) -> not sure how relevant that would be though given the smaller boards now and the already high base movement for the armiger (12 inches).

Currently leaning towards the lightning locks - the list i'm running does 'ok' with elites (KOS and magnus) but might need more horde clear. At the same time the graviton pulsars add some punch for fatties even wounding on 5+ if a few get through at -3 AP and 3 DMG (ouch).

Thoughts on the pulsars vs locks? Should i be running a mix of moiraxs (2 with x2 gravitons and 2 with x2 locks)? That could be thing... Would have to figure out the household trait though... I need a few to sit on the objectives as the daemonettes will die to any and all direct/indirect fire.

Is Magnus titanic? Moirax have a rule that allows them to heroically intervene 6 inches to help big guys. I might be getting their rule wrong (it might be house specific) but I'm away from my books right now.