Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Martel732 wrote:
I'm not putting my expensive ass eliminators in smite range. Or double tap range.

Those kinds of things are situational. Thing is - you put them in front of a unit and force them as a charge target - you can completely block a charge and force them to fight 3 crummy eliminators.

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Did you guys just miss how awesome eliminators overwatch ability is? They can overwatch and then move. The ultimate screening unit. Can use to block or get out of dodge.

No, I did not miss this, I've been taunting my buddy who plays GSC relentlessly with these updates.

Now that's just cruel

As nice as the Ultramarine Doctrine is, Tallarn have had the same thing for free too and it hasn't exactly been gamebreaking.

It will be a big bonus for things like Repulsors, but a lot of Marine tanks wouldn't be seen much, don't move all that often because they have no reason to, or already have Power of the Machine Spirit.

 JNAProductions wrote:

The Newman wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Did you guys just miss how awesome eliminators overwatch ability is? They can overwatch and then move. The ultimate screening unit. Can use to block or get out of dodge.

Once per game. If the Serg is carrying the Carbide, which probably replaces his proper gun. Still a good ability, but not quite as good as it looks at first glance.

From the wording, it appears to be once per TURN, not once per GAME.

Edit: Rules pic.

Hurray for ambiguous wording. You're probably right though, when GW means once per game they tend to spell that out.

 Sentineil wrote:
As nice as the Ultramarine Doctrine is, Tallarn have had the same thing for free too and it hasn't exactly been gamebreaking.

It will be a big bonus for things like Repulsors, but a lot of Marine tanks wouldn't be seen much, don't move all that often because they have no reason to, or already have Power of the Machine Spirit.

Repulsors are already PotMS as well. Assbacks can ebenfit, but they lose the AP. Predators will benefit with being able hide and pop out to shoot. That's pretty much it for vehicles that want it.

It's really the marines themselves. And perhaps having really killer marines won't be bad, but I just don't like a setup where they ignore all the rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

The Newman wrote:


Hurray for ambiguous wording. You're probably right though, when GW means once per game they tend to spell that out.

Seems fine to me as you can keep doing overwatch if the charge is failed.

I like the Ultramarines doctrine. I wonder if everyone is going to get a doctrine?

Anyway I'm excited for aggressors hoping out of the new rhino or repulsor and shooting twice since they count as not moving. Mobile heavy weapons seems great and judging by this rule UM are going to be the mass infantry army archetype. I expect doctrines will not affect vehicles unless it says otherwise

Edit: oh Jeez doctrines effect vehicles. There is no chill here

 Sentineil wrote:
As nice as the Ultramarine Doctrine is, Tallarn have had the same thing for free too and it hasn't exactly been gamebreaking.

It will be a big bonus for things like Repulsors, but a lot of Marine tanks wouldn't be seen much, don't move all that often because they have no reason to, or already have Power of the Machine Spirit.

It's massive for redemptor dreads

How is shooting like having not moved that powerful ? I can see my predator being very happy, but I would have enjoyed "no -1 after falling back" better. Vehicles are still pretty much useless of they fall back and shoot !

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
My flamer Aggressors will now disembark from a transport and hit a unit with 100 Ap-1 auto hits.

I think the only saving grace is that it will be hard to have enough units in range. You'll certainly overkill the gak out of IS though.

Little consolation though.

A Repulsor can only hold 5 of the dudes, that's only 70 attacks on average. The Impulsor can only hold 3 assuming it can carry Aggressors at all (and it would be kind of a bummer if it couldn't) which is only 42. With rerolls the Boltstorms get 84 and 51 hits respectively. But when you need to fire overwatch...

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Sentineil wrote:
As nice as the Ultramarine Doctrine is, Tallarn have had the same thing for free too and it hasn't exactly been gamebreaking.

It will be a big bonus for things like Repulsors, but a lot of Marine tanks wouldn't be seen much, don't move all that often because they have no reason to, or already have Power of the Machine Spirit.

It's massive for redemptor dreads

I'm not sure it's massive for redeptors dreadnaughts yes, predators maybe.

But it doesn't do anything for PotMS Vehicals, doesn't start untill turn 2, marine vehicals arn't exactlly durability kings.

If anything I suspect Ultramarines might be the way to play mechanised infantry army a little oddly but fair enough. But not vehicals.

 godardc wrote:
How is shooting like having not moved that powerful ? I can see my predator being very happy, but I would have enjoyed "no -1 after falling back" better. Vehicles are still pretty much useless of they fall back and shoot !

On paper it isn't horrible when you gain back a simple -1. The flexibility it provides, however, can be strong. It shines most with bolter rules.

 godardc wrote:
How is shooting like having not moved that powerful ? I can see my predator being very happy, but I would have enjoyed "no -1 after falling back" better. Vehicles are still pretty much useless of they fall back and shoot !

Yeah. The chapter tactic is garbage - hopefully this is to make up for that. Aint no one gonna be playing ultras for the chapter tactic I assure you. Really giving marines relentless is what they have needed since forever. Freaking finally!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ice_can wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Sentineil wrote:
As nice as the Ultramarine Doctrine is, Tallarn have had the same thing for free too and it hasn't exactly been gamebreaking.

It will be a big bonus for things like Repulsors, but a lot of Marine tanks wouldn't be seen much, don't move all that often because they have no reason to, or already have Power of the Machine Spirit.

It's massive for redemptor dreads

I'm not sure it's massive for redeptors dreadnaughts yes, predators maybe.

But it doesn't do anything for PotMS Vehicals, doesn't start untill turn 2, marine vehicals arn't exactlly durability kings.

If anything I suspect Ultramarines might be the way to play mechanised infantry army a little oddly but fair enough. But not vehicals.

Well - turn 1 a redemptor is getting -2 ap on all its guns minus storm bolters. Then turn 2 it's moving and shooting all its guns with no penalty and getting ap-1 on it's storm bolters. That is pretty big. redemptor dread is basically out most durable vehicle for it's points.

Ultramarines Leviathans, I can smell the salt already.

Ice_can wrote:
Ultramarines Leviathans, I can smell the salt already.

Tricorner or die, baby.

Martel732 wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
Ultramarines Leviathans, I can smell the salt already.

Tricorner or die, baby.

Why not 1 shot with smash captain?

Because there's only one, and I keep him away from invulns when possible.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 godardc wrote:
How is shooting like having not moved that powerful ? I can see my predator being very happy, but I would have enjoyed "no -1 after falling back" better. Vehicles are still pretty much useless of they fall back and shoot !

Yeah. The chapter tactic is garbage - hopefully this is to make up for that. Aint no one gonna be playing ultras for the chapter tactic I assure you. Really giving marines relentless is what they have needed since forever. Freaking finally!

You keep saying that, but it continues to not be true.

Ice_can wrote:
Ultramarines Leviathans, I can smell the salt already.

Honestly they do better with the devestator docterine. ap-3 with that. I like the successor with 3+ range for 11" flamers and 27 inch cannons with some kind of defensive trait for it's second tactic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 godardc wrote:
How is shooting like having not moved that powerful ? I can see my predator being very happy, but I would have enjoyed "no -1 after falling back" better. Vehicles are still pretty much useless of they fall back and shoot !

Yeah. The chapter tactic is garbage - hopefully this is to make up for that. Aint no one gonna be playing ultras for the chapter tactic I assure you. Really giving marines relentless is what they have needed since forever. Freaking finally!

You keep saying that, but it continues to not be true.

God lord dude. It is terrible. Other tactics actually do things. Falling back and hitting on 5's is fething useless. Pretty much every unit in the army ether has fly keyword or is competent in melle. It is almost equal to not having a tactic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:
Because there's only one, and I keep him away from invulns when possible.

Why? Im pretty sure with 14+ attacks you are gonna 1 shot anything. It's never failed to kill mine usually without fighting twice. Keep in mind now...smash captains are getting buffed right here - you re getting an additional attack.

The Newman wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
If one of the Sub-codexes isn't GK I will literally stop playing and sell all this crap. This is SSJ levels of power keep. Not like in OG: Dragon Ball, were everyone is the same basic power level (about 100). Now you have the Zeno sage of 40k, where the SMs are Goku, and the GK are basically Yamcha.

From the Chapter Tactics preview:

** If you’re a fan of the Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Grey Knights or Deathwatch, don’t worry – you can look forward to official rules updates coming soon via free PDF download. And remember, you Heretic Astartes players out there will also be gaining Shock Assault for your units in a similar update!

GKs are at least on tap to get some sort of update, but probably not one of those REDACTED books. Hopefully their .pdf is fairly extensive.

There's enough in the picture for all the 'Vanilla' founding chapters; UM, White Scars, Iron Hands, Salamanders, Raven Guard, and Imperial Fist. No bets on whether they actually do it that way, or if they group them up somehow (Templars and CF bundled in with IF for instance), or if some.of the books are dedicated to completely new chapters or fleshing out the chapters like Emperor's Spears that were introduced in White Dwarf.

Don't do that.....don't give me hope!

I wouldn't get excited about vehicles with doctrines yet, WHC have already made mistakes with this release (dude showed off painted SW Centurions on FB page, lol). Dreads might get them, but I doubt other vehicles will.
I'm just waiting for the WHC oops response.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

The Newman wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
If one of the Sub-codexes isn't GK I will literally stop playing and sell all this crap. This is SSJ levels of power keep. Not like in OG: Dragon Ball, were everyone is the same basic power level (about 100). Now you have the Zeno sage of 40k, where the SMs are Goku, and the GK are basically Yamcha.

From the Chapter Tactics preview:

** If you’re a fan of the Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Grey Knights or Deathwatch, don’t worry – you can look forward to official rules updates coming soon via free PDF download. And remember, you Heretic Astartes players out there will also be gaining Shock Assault for your units in a similar update!

GKs are at least on tap to get some sort of update, but probably not one of those REDACTED books. Hopefully their .pdf is fairly extensive.

There's enough in the picture for all the 'Vanilla' founding chapters; UM, White Scars, Iron Hands, Salamanders, Raven Guard, and Imperial Fist. No bets on whether they actually do it that way, or if they group them up somehow (Templars and CF bundled in with IF for instance), or if some.of the books are dedicated to completely new chapters or fleshing out the chapters like Emperor's Spears that were introduced in White Dwarf.

Don't do that.....don't give me hope!

It's probably just the change from ATSKNF to angels of death. I wouldn't get too excited

Have to believe this will get positively stupid when FW starts getting into the primaris game.

With any luck, FW is shut down.

 bullyboy wrote:
I wouldn't get excited about vehicles with doctrines yet, WHC have already made mistakes with this release (dude showed off painted SW Centurions on FB page, lol). Dreads might get them, but I doubt other vehicles will.
I'm just waiting for the WHC oops response.

Yeah but even if it's not an oops it doesn't actually make much difference to repulsors or landraiders, it only effects predator, razorbacks and vindicators not exactly seen many of those for a while, predators might be spammed but they also die like flies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:
With any luck, FW is shut down.

WoW so much Hate even when GW keep making FW unit's worse than Codex units universally.

 bullyboy wrote:
I wouldn't get excited about vehicles with doctrines yet, WHC have already made mistakes with this release (dude showed off painted SW Centurions on FB page, lol). Dreads might get them, but I doubt other vehicles will.
I'm just waiting for the WHC oops response.

First I'd heard about that, confirmed somewhere that SW aren't getting Cents?

Martel732 wrote:
With any luck, FW is shut down.

Good so I can stop facing all those game breaking renegade guard units and marines lose access to those vindicator laser destroyers ruling the competitive scene.

Martel732 wrote:
Well, you've got ork charges and +1 A. Not a bad start.

Not a bad start, but there's going to have to be some salt-inducing levels of melee boosts to rival the Ultramarine boni from Tactical Doctrine.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Well, you've got ork charges and +1 A. Not a bad start.

Not a bad start, but there's going to have to be some salt-inducing levels of melee boosts to rival the Ultramarine boni from Tactical Doctrine.

I would hope for a stratagem that BT LRC gained the assault vehical rule.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Well, you've got ork charges and +1 A. Not a bad start.

Not a bad start, but there's going to have to be some salt-inducing levels of melee boosts to rival the Ultramarine boni from Tactical Doctrine.

I would hope for a stratagem that BT LRC gained the assault vehical rule.

You mean the ironically named rule as you can't charge after disembarking from an assualt vehical.

They would be better served with a rule that allowed them to charge on the turn they disembark.

Though I suspect the roid marines players would be salty about such a rule.

 Sentineil wrote:
As nice as the Ultramarine Doctrine is, Tallarn have had the same thing for free too and it hasn't exactly been gamebreaking.

It will be a big bonus for things like Repulsors, but a lot of Marine tanks wouldn't be seen much, don't move all that often because they have no reason to, or already have Power of the Machine Spirit.

Because the Guard codex isn't chock-full of units that do special things when they don't move. You've got Leman Russes, which don't benefit much from the Tallarn doctrine, and that's it.

Conversely everything in the SM codex with a bolt weapon gets Bolter Drill, plus there are units like Aggressors and the new hovertank which can fire twice if they remain stationary. It's a much more significant buff.