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 Stormonu wrote:
I've played a lot of X-Wing and Wings of War/Glory (WoW/G got me started) and really like those type of systems - how does this game stack up against them? I'm curious because I'd like to grab the Tau and maybe Eldar forces to play.

It's a fairly simple game, the Taros campaign book have Rolling Area of Engagement and Low level flying which are nice addition to the game and should add some more interesting element into it. If AI has to go up against XWing, it didn't have the level of customization and distinction between the faction. There're stuff like 1 or 2 extra pilots, unique planes and crew in A/I but it adds very little to the game you can pretty much ignore it altogether. Maneuvers are also universal instead of being unique to the craft like X-Wing. Factions in A/I also feel more like different stat block with lack of unique mechanic that'd make them standout, maybe you can say that the new Eldar faction probably has the most "personality" into them.

Overall I'd advice you get the model, which is the best I've ever seen in these kind of "aircraft" game, and track down the original 2 rulebooks, and play a hybrid version of both original and new A/I, or just play the original. It'd still be fairly simple and not as customizable as X-Wing, but the original game have better core mechanic that'd require more thought and strategic planning:

-It's much harder to turn and control the planes in original A/I, game is played on normal board using cm measurement to move instead of hex board like new A/I.

-There are 9 attitude level instead of 5, it meant more difficulty to get target to shot at. Some plane cannot reach the highest attitude, making it difficult or impossible for it to shot at plane that can.

- Maneuver in original A/I are either dive, climb or none with strict attitude and speed changing element attached to them, in new A/I you can have all maneuver be dive or climb and adjust speed/attitude accordingly.

-Most guns in new A/I have unlimited ammo and many can shoot at both ground/aerial target, most gun in original A/I have very limited ammo and many of them have ground attack only rule, there're also extra rule to "help" you burn through ammo quicker in original A/I if you choose to.

-Upgrades in original A/I are more unique and lore accurate to the factions.

-The Lightning fighter have autocannon in original A/I, it didn't in the new one, due to it using the new, crappier pattern

Well obviously the most drastic change from old to new version is the guns that is "ground attack" in the original can shoot at air target, allow you to have more choice in your dogfighting squad (while also make no sense if you're into more lore accurate sim of the 40k setting).

Decided to follow my heart and ordered the box set. Even if the game doesn't receive much more support I'm fine with that I love these flyers.

A couple of stores in Aus sold out of all the individual kits within a fraction of a second of going up for sale. I think they actually sold thru their allocation before even going live. I watched a couple sites that showed quantities left dwindle every time I refreshed.

So best of luck folks wherever you are for ordering, hope you get what you want. May your flyers stay true and hold fast.

So the Phoenix and Storm Eagles are pretty poor value, only 1 sprue and 3 or 2 models but they charge the same as the two sprue kits.

I'm a bit surprised how quick it's sold out at independents and the official NZ store (still on the Oz official store though).

I wonder if it's sold well, or they simply didn't make many of them.

If it exceeded expectations hopefully it prompts them to keep making stuff for it.

 Stormonu wrote:
I've played a lot of X-Wing and Wings of War/Glory (WoW/G got me started) and really like those type of systems - how does this game stack up against them? I'm curious because I'd like to grab the Tau and maybe Eldar forces to play.

Like Snakes and Ladders stacks up to Go.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
So the Phoenix and Storm Eagles are pretty poor value, only 1 sprue and 3 or 2 models but they charge the same as the two sprue kits.

I'm a bit surprised how quick it's sold out at independents and the official NZ store (still on the Oz official store though).

I wonder if it's sold well, or they simply didn't make many of them.

If it exceeded expectations hopefully it prompts them to keep making stuff for it.

I imagine plastic Eldar flyers are a Big Deal for Epic players.

Looks like the Cards have already sold out on GW uk!

 zedmeister wrote:
Looks like the Cards have already sold out on GW uk!

GW try to meet demand challenge (impossible)

I can get the models selling out as they can be used for Epic, but cards selling out seems to imply someone is playing this version of AI, which is bizarre.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I imagine plastic Eldar flyers are a Big Deal for Epic players.

Yes. Although the SM flyers are also a big deal, TBH.

But there are less good eldar flyer proxies out there.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I can get the models selling out as they can be used for Epic, but cards selling out seems to imply someone is playing this version of AI, which is bizarre.

Or simply for collection.

Joke aside, there are people playing the game.

I'm a bit sad there is no campaign book, this time. It was always nice to read the background.

Have we confirmed there won't be a campaign book?

I still get the feeling we'll get the campaign book in a few weeks when the Thunderhawk comes out. The main thing that makes we think we might not is that the blurb for the Eldar cards only mentions the Nightwing and Phoenix, so maybe that'll be all we get for Eldar. But Space Marines still look to be getting the Thunderhawk and a Fire Raptor, and I think those will likely come in the campaign book.

EDIT: It looks like the rules for using different models comes in the boxes for this release, so maybe that's further evidence that we aren't getting a campaign book.

In the US rumor is stores were allocated 1 copy of each product (I shouldn't say this is a rumor, as I was straight up told this by 3 different store managers in the past few days). If thats also true in other regions, then the sell-outs are because there isn't much stock rather than rabid demand for the game.

As for the cards - I preordered them. There are in fact people who play the game, not many of us it seems, but we exist damnit.

chaos0xomega wrote:
In the US rumor is stores were allocated 1 copy of each product (I shouldn't say this is a rumor, as I was straight up told this by 3 different store managers in the past few days). If thats also true in other regions, then the sell-outs are because there isn't much stock rather than rabid demand for the game.

As for the cards - I preordered them. There are in fact people who play the game, not many of us it seems, but we exist damnit.

Looking at online stores here, one I checked had 12 copies in stock when I checked this evening (about 6 hours after release).

I wasn't really paying attention at the start of the day to know how many they had in stock when they first dropped.

I ordered 2 starter boxes from one online store, so hopefully they can fulfil that order otherwise I'll be a bit annoyed.

I can imagine that Rolling area of engagement and Low level flying is the peak of creativity of this game since it's so simple. If i have to be optimistic about the whole no book thing I'd say a rule revamp is on the way next year. But I'd still try to hoard stuffs now regardless.

Chopstick wrote:
I can imagine that Rolling area of engagement and Low level flying is the peak of creativity of this game since it's so simple. If i have to be optimistic about the whole no book thing I'd say a rule revamp is on the way next year. But I'd still try to hoard stuffs now regardless.

I like the rolling area of engagement, but the low level flying to me needs to be fleshed out more, it's currently horribly unbalanced and the amount of terrain shown in the images is terrible if you're playing something like Orks.

It feels a bit like they invented the handling characteristic before deciding what they were going to use it for.

As for a revamp, I'd love to see one, but I'm not hopeful. Given they now have 5 factions they could conceivably write an all encompassing rulebook rather than the piecemeal campaign books we have now, it'd be nice if they did that, but I doubt they will.

Chopstick wrote:

It's a fairly simple game, the Taros campaign book have Rolling Area of Engagement and Low level flying which are nice addition to the game and should add some more interesting element into it. If AI has to go up against XWing, it didn't have the level of customization and distinction between the faction. There're stuff like 1 or 2 extra pilots, unique planes and crew in A/I but it adds very little to the game you can pretty much ignore it altogether. Maneuvers are also universal instead of being unique to the craft like X-Wing. Factions in A/I also feel more like different stat block with lack of unique mechanic that'd make them standout, maybe you can say that the new Eldar faction probably has the most "personality" into them.

Overall I'd advice you get the model, which is the best I've ever seen in these kind of "aircraft" game, and track down the original 2 rulebooks, and play a hybrid version of both original and new A/I, or just play the original. It'd still be fairly simple and not as customizable as X-Wing, but the original game have better core mechanic that'd require more thought and strategic planning:

This post is so wrong, so obviously made by someone who has not played either version, that I had to make an account just to point out how wong it is.

-It's much harder to turn and control the planes in original A/I, game is played on normal board using cm measurement to move instead of hex board like new A/I.

It uses inches, and every single aircraft desinged for air-to-air has either "high" or "very high" maneuverability, which include 180 flips and 90 degree turns. You could also play the maneuever card at any point during your move, giving you a high amount of control as to the final position of the aircraft at pretty much any speed.

-There are 9 attitude level instead of 5, it meant more difficulty to get target to shot at. Some plane cannot reach the highest attitude, making it difficult or impossible for it to shot at plane that can.

This is true in the new version of the AI too, some aircraft cannot reach altitude 5. If you've ever actually played a game of old AI, you'd realize the 9 levels of altitude don't really come into play as much as you'd think they do, especially not during dogfights, which basically end up using 3-4 levels of altitude as aircraft without a clean shot try to avoid fire by ducking up or down one level.

- Maneuver in original A/I are either dive, climb or none with strict attitude and speed changing element attached to them, in new A/I you can have all maneuver be dive or climb and adjust speed/attitude accordingly.

Yes, strict altitude and speed changing elements like "you may climb to gain one altitude and lose one speed, or you may dive to lose one altitude and gain one speed, choose after performing the maneuever". Which is the same as the new system. Barring a few special maneuevers in the old system designed specifically to interact with altitude, like Power Dive or splitting the 180 into two different maneuevers which mandate a climb/dive, most of the maneuever cards in the old system were just as flexible in allowing altiude adjustments. Moreseo in some cases- the new system only lets you trade 2 speed for 2 altitude if you're going speed 6 or above.

-Most guns in new A/I have unlimited ammo and many can shoot at both ground/aerial target, most gun in original A/I have very limited ammo and many of them have ground attack only rule, there're also extra rule to "help" you burn through ammo quicker in original A/I if you choose to.

A lot of people who have skimmed the old rules but never played any games with it bring this up a lot as if the old system had you carefully deciding if you should spend ammo shooting or not, but when you actually end up playing the game, you take whatever shots you get handed 99% of the time, because otherwise you die. The designer himself even writes this in the Tactica Aeronautica expansion book. It's certainly a neat thematic touch, but it's hardly adding a deep complex tactical choice to the shooting phase like people who have heard the old system had limited ammo but not actually played with it seem to claim.

-Upgrades in original A/I are more unique and lore accurate to the factions.

This is the most standout baldfaced lie of the bunch. Basically every single upgrade carries over in it's current form! The Imperials can buy an armoured cockpit which grants a single 6+ save against the last point of damage in the old version. The orks get the same, but it also costs a point of speed. Both carry over. The Imperials can take infrared targeting which negates some penalties of night fighting, and the Tau have their version of that too. They both carry over. The Orks can take an upgrade which increases min and max speed by one. That carries over (though it no longer mandates the miniature to be painted red, sadly).
In the cases there aren't 1-1 parallels from the old version (Like the Tau target lock system), there are new upgrades that are just as "unique" to the faction, such as an engine upgrade for the Barracuda, or rear gunner drones for any Tau aircraft.

-The Lightning fighter have autocannon in original A/I, it didn't in the new one, due to it using the new, crappier pattern

This is just stating something that is true without expounding on why it's bad. The new Lightning has more wing hardpoints for missiles, does that somehow make the new AI a better game? It helps that the new one isn't piss ugly and doesn't even look like it fits into the universe like the old model, so it has that going for it, at least.

Well obviously the most drastic change from old to new version is the guns that is "ground attack" in the original can shoot at air target, allow you to have more choice in your dogfighting squad (while also make no sense if you're into more lore accurate sim of the 40k setting).

It would be more accurate to say "Some guns gained or lost the Ground/Aerial attack special rule". The most notable example being the Marauder Destroyer's nose guns, but the rear gun gained Aerial Attack, which it didn't have before. Your complaint about this seems to not be balance (which is a much more fair concern to have) but lore accuracy, which is absurd. The Thunderhawk's Turbolaser was Ground Attack only in the old version, yet you might notice it's mounted on top of the aircraft, with no ability to depress the gun without blowing the cockpit off. The new version seems to have it firing at all targets, so long as they're at or above it's altitude, which is much more lore accurate (unless the lore you've been reading has a lot of descriptions of Thunderhawks plowing into the ground at mach 2 on a ground attack mission). Similarly, the Ground Attack rule makes sense for weapons that are guided, like missiles and bombs, because they have literally no way of hitting air targets. Why should "some guns in the nose" be Ground Attack only for the Marauder Destroyer but not the Thunderbolt? Remember, you can't use balance reasons here (not least because you can just price the aircraft higher if you need to), only Lore ones. Is it because the Marauder is slow and lumbering and will find it very tricky to bring it's guns to bear? That's reflected in it's slow speed and low maneuverability.
What an abysmal post, I rate it 0 stars out of 100, which if my maths is correct, is the lowest possible rating for a post. You should rewrite it and try again.

I don't see it on the US store yet. Am I missing something?

 CptJake wrote:
I don't see it on the US store yet. Am I missing something?

Things get put on the Aussie webstorer earlier than anywhere else, so people just switch their region to Australia if they want to look at newest stuff a few hours earlier.

 CptJake wrote:
I don't see it on the US store yet. Am I missing something?

What time does stuff normally come out in the US? It's on the UK store now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
I don't see it on the US store yet. Am I missing something?

Things get put on the Aussie webstorer earlier than anywhere else, so people just switch their region to Australia if they want to look at newest stuff a few hours earlier.

NZ is first, Australia is about 3 hours later. It was up on the Oz store about 16 hours ago, so it must be pretty close to going live on the US store I guess.

1pm Eastern(13 minutes from now) on Saturdays.

Sometimes it "preloads" at 12:50pm Eastern though.

 Bambridge wrote:
Why should "some guns in the nose" be Ground Attack only for the Marauder Destroyer but not the Thunderbolt? Remember, you can't use balance reasons here (not least because you can just price the aircraft higher if you need to), only Lore ones. Is it because the Marauder is slow and lumbering and will find it very tricky to bring it's guns to bear? That's reflected in it's slow speed and low maneuverability.

It might be reflected in the low speed and low manoeuvrability, however that's a poor representation. Both because low manoeuvrability in AI is barely a crutch at all, and also because getting an enemy plane within your front 120° arc is only part of the difficulty of getting shots on target. In anything other than a nose to nose game of chicken, the Marauder would struggle to get guns on target against an agile fighter even if the fighter fell within its 120° front arc.

The fixed guns on the Marauder are for precision strafing attacks, not air-to-air dogfighting, hence why it used to be a ground attack weapon.

 Bambridge wrote:

This is the most standout baldfaced lie of the bunch. Basically every single upgrade carries over in it's current form! The Imperials can buy an armoured cockpit which grants a single 6+ save against the last point of damage in the old version. The orks get the same, but it also costs a point of speed. Both carry over. The Imperials can take infrared targeting which negates some penalties of night fighting, and the Tau have their version of that too. They both carry over. The Orks can take an upgrade which increases min and max speed by one. That carries over (though it no longer mandates the miniature to be painted red, sadly).
In the cases there aren't 1-1 parallels from the old version (Like the Tau target lock system), there are new upgrades that are just as "unique" to the faction, such as an engine upgrade for the Barracuda, or rear gunner drones for any Tau aircraft.

I was told not to argue in here, so I just bring up this point here where you contradicting yourself. Every single upgrade does not carry over, Imperial lost their victory paint scheme, Ork no longer have rokkit boosta (which isn't very great, but would be nice if it got its own evolution)

Tau had suffered the most, basically it's "copy Imperial Navy but not too obvious". But writer still made a blunder by having Tau still using infra red (probably stolen tech from Imperium) instead of their own equivalent, now this isn't a big deal but it made me question if whoever wrote this actually care or know the (basic) fluff.

Armored cockpit? Another stolen Imperium tech.

Tail gun drone? invisible upgrade that didn't even exist on the model or any history of it, why is this even here? Tau above all other factions should have the easiest time to make up rule for upgrade with their vehicle battle system and support system, which in the original, rule writer made an effort to present them in the game.

TL;DR : stolen tech, copy paste rule are boring, with wrong name being the cherry on top, the original have copy paste rule between faction too, but it is lore-accurate, and being the original with little competition for comparison or expectation for a better, improve version to be made like the successor, there're also a clear effort of trying to make unique upgrade related to the faction. Oh and the "Rocket booster" rule in the new one is a mess.

Also one impressive thing about the original is how rule writer really understand the aircraft, Tau "seeker missile" seem to have "ground attack" on some aircrafts(barracuda, Tiger Shark, Orca) , and none on the other (AX-1-0, Remora, Manta), this is intentional because the latter carry networked markerlight which allow them to target air unit while the rest had to rely on the ground force (which has no rule, but we can assume there're always pathfinder or stealthsuit hiding somewhere) to mark the target.

And weldome to the forum! it's an honor to be your first post.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:
Looks like the Cards have already sold out on GW uk!

GW try to meet demand challenge (impossible)

To be fair Aeronautica stuff has taken ages to shift before. You could and probably still can find Navy/Ork Ace cards without much issue. Even with Marines, I do wonder if they just printed far less cards this time around.

Really amazed that GW are still going ahead with an absolute awful release method for this game system.

The core boxes don't contain reference cards, and only has a cheap paper mat. All their other games that are boardgame hybrids contain both reference cards, and a solid mat in the core box set.

That and the slow drip feed of the factions makes their rules scattered over several books.

Shame as AI is a great little game, just sadly in the hands of GW who have allowed greed to cloud their judgment.

I pre-ordered the box and the Eldar dice. What are the cards used for? Simply to keep track of stuff that is contained in the book you get with the box?

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
I pre-ordered the box and the Eldar dice. What are the cards used for? Simply to keep track of stuff that is contained in the book you get with the box?

You get cards with stats for the planes, so you can have them there as a quick reference. You also get cards with missiles and upgrades and stuff, so if you have a plane with missiles you can keep track of which ones have been fired, or which planes have certain upgrades.

They're a nice idea, but way too expensive for my liking. Instead I've just made a few summary sheets with aircraft stats which I can print out, then use some counters to represent missiles.

It looks like the new aircraft also have their rules in the box on the back of the instruction manual, making cards less useful as a reference.

Preview some contents of new box.

Obvious low hanging fruit critique :

-none of the SM crafts have Rocket Booster rule despite being known as capable voids combat fighters Easy solution.

- seem like rules for unique crafts, T-hawk, fire raptor etc will be exclusive to the card pack, kinda annoying but not a huge problem.

The Good :
-Xiphon, night wing, phoenix are below 25 points, so 50 pts game can still be played with good amount of variety for Eldar.

- Extra main guns for Eldar are fixed at 3 points, so no insane price hike like +8 for weapon replacement like T'au.

-Thunderhawk can hover now, which is a lore accurate improvement over the original. (not in video, but in card preview)

-Phoenix has bombs now, so Ground attack mission no longer a problem, the default missile on the phoenix is also quite strong with UL ammo, still no transport for Eldar.


Not a critique but Xiphon still have Ork-tier handling despite being piloted by humanity finest warrior, recover from spin, falling behind or crashing into terrain will be devastating.

Chopstick wrote:

- seem like rules for unique crafts, T-hawk, fire raptor etc will be exclusive to the card pack, kinda annoying but not a huge problem.

The rules for this release of aircraft seem to be attached to the back of the instruction manual, so assuming they continue with that, the Thunderhawk and Fire Raptor rules will be in their boxes.

Is there anything confirming that a campaign book isn't on the way? It seems to me like there will be one coming and they're either stretching out the release or maybe they found that too many people previously bought the boxed set or the campaign book and they're trying to milk more people to buy both.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
The rules for this release of aircraft seem to be attached to the back of the instruction manual, so assuming they continue with that, the Thunderhawk and Fire Raptor rules will be in their boxes.

Is there anything confirming that a campaign book isn't on the way? It seems to me like there will be one coming and they're either stretching out the release or maybe they found that too many people previously bought the boxed set or the campaign book and they're trying to milk more people to buy both.

I do hope a book is coming. They may be doing wave releases and will have the campaign book later with the Thunderhawk. Could be they're holding it back as it'll spoiler a release? I can't believe they just have two Eldar Aircraft in their card deck. No Vampire Hunter, Vampire Raider, Crimson Hunter or even Lynx? Though, saying that, they did say Fire Raptor is included in the Marine deck, so who knows

No confirmation one way or another - I'm very much hoping for the book and future releases (including future factions and an expansion into the non-Forgeworld flyers), but I'm not holding my breath.

The text for the Eldar card pack says that there are 21 aircraft cards in it, including the two traditional named flyers.

21 Asuryani Aircraft cards make ideal references for your Nightwing and Phoenix Bomber aircraft. Also includes the ‘Shadow Reaver’ and ‘Crimson Warrior’ named aircraft

I wouldn’t think that they have 19 cards for just the nightwing and phoenix. But there will be at least 6 nightwing and 3 phoenix cards, which leaves a maximum of 10 cards for any new models. I wouldn’t have high hopes for any 6-strong small aircraft boxes, but vampires would indeed be nice.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thinking about it, if they go with the absolute minimum numbers of cards (box sizes), we could see:

6 Nightwing,
3 Phoenix,
6 Crimson Hunter, and
2 each of both Vampire variants

That would be nice!