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So apparently the impulsor is abse 75 points, so yeah it's damn cheap. review I'm reading says of the new stuff, these are the stars.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
So, Sternguard with a Chaplain and Tactical Doctrine can now have AP-3 30" bolters with Bolter Discipline that wound on 2+ against T4 and 4+ against T8 if you pop their stratagem. That's pretty juicy.

Make them Crimson Fists or Imperial Fists for those sweet sweet 6s for additional hits.

Out of curiosity, how many points is a Rhino now? Given how much more durable the new Impulsor thingy is, 70+ points for a tin box in relation seems a tad silly.

 Sherrypie wrote:
Out of curiosity, how many points is a Rhino now? Given how much more durable the new Impulsor thingy is, 70+ points for a tin box in relation seems a tad silly.

93pts gets you a 4++ on the Impulsor, on top of the -2" to enemy charges. As a screening unit they're arguably better than the old stuff.

edit: I believe the Rhino is 65pts now

Any leak about the stormraven ?

 godardc wrote:
Any leak about the stormraven ?

no changes.

so looking at a preview of the "make your own chapter tactics" and it looks like blood ravens was a quiet preview of the make your own.

edit: ohh the vanguard warlord traits made the codex. which is nice, I wasn't expecting that as the CSM ones didn't make theirs. (god every bit of detail on this codex makes it clear how LAZY the 2.0 chaos dex was)

Not even a points drop ? :(
Speaking about Blood Raven, did they make it in the codex or should we still use the WD ?

 godardc wrote:
Not even a points drop ? :(
Speaking about Blood Raven, did they make it in the codex or should we still use the WD ?

If you want to use the BLOOD RAVENS keyword, or any of the named Characters, or any of the relics, etc, you have to use the White Dwarf rules. If you want to be the BLUD RAEVENS you can make your own successor chapter just fine.

 xttz wrote:

 Sherrypie wrote:
Out of curiosity, how many points is a Rhino now? Given how much more durable the new Impulsor thingy is, 70+ points for a tin box in relation seems a tad silly.

93pts gets you a 4++ on the Impulsor, on top of the -2" to enemy charges. As a screening unit they're arguably better than the old stuff.

edit: I believe the Rhino is 65pts now

Ok, so you can get a fast, resilient, effective at its job transport and a Redemptor for dakka (all for 248 points) or a single Repulsor for quite a bit more. I think the latter is pretty much defunct.

Thunderhammers 40 points now (for characters).

That's gotta sting for mostly the only Space Marine models most people built in the last year or so .. lol.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 godardc wrote:
Not even a points drop ? :(
Speaking about Blood Raven, did they make it in the codex or should we still use the WD ?

If you want to use the BLOOD RAVENS keyword, or any of the named Characters, or any of the relics, etc, you have to use the White Dwarf rules. If you want to be the BLUD RAEVENS you can make your own successor chapter just fine.

Blood ravens are not in the codex, but their chapter tactics can be recreated via the "Create a chapter" rules and the rules specificly say blood raven players don't have to use the tactics involved and can instead "use one that you feel best suits the chapter" so you can basicly use the create a chapter rules for blood ravens and then get access to the relic and chief librarian strat.

thats actually pretty good all considered

edit: and yeah literally the ONLY thing blood ravens get unique to them is the chief librarian strat, unless the review I'm reading just missed it

So if this has been answered sorry, but if I have the old codex do I need a new one or are the data sheets/points coming out seperately?

mightymconeshot wrote:
So if this has been answered sorry, but if I have the old codex do I need a new one or are the data sheets/points coming out seperately?

you're going to need the new one. GW has, wisely abandoned the idea of "well you won't 100% need this new codex" so that they can give us a good codex rather then a lazy patch job.

mightymconeshot wrote:
So if this has been answered sorry, but if I have the old codex do I need a new one or are the data sheets/points coming out seperately?

If you have a variant chapter book like DA,BA, or SW, they're coming out with a pdf to add some of the new primaris units though I suspect they'll be replaced in the next year or two as well. If you've got the 2017 vanilla marine codex then this is a full on replacement and you have a two year old doorstop or drink tray unfortunately.

 warboss wrote:

mightymconeshot wrote:
So if this has been answered sorry, but if I have the old codex do I need a new one or are the data sheets/points coming out seperately?

If you have a variant chapter book like DA,BA, or SW, they're coming out with a pdf to add some of the new primaris units though I suspect they'll be replaced in the next year or two as well. If you've got the 2017 vanilla marine codex then this is a full on replacement and you have a two year old doorstop or drink tray unfortunately.

Well, and also White Dwarf apparently.

Gotta be awkward to juggle, say, "old" Space Wolves Codex (8 months now?), a pdf, new Marines Codex, probably some White Dwarf stuff and a few unit sheets from the miniature boxes until GW get's around to compile it into a 2.0 Space Wolves Codex, probably about 3 weeks before they bring out Space Marines 3.0 or simply 9th Edition.

So apparently the U;tramarines have a psykic power that allows them to generate a command point.

BrianDavion wrote:
So apparently the U;tramarines have a psykic power that allows them to generate a command point.

Yeah nothing new there really. Thousand Sons pretty much had that, but it was restricted to a re-roll. Fits the Ultramarine theme as well.

Some takes from watching a review:

Intercessor sergeants can now have thunder hammers. Assault bolters really are 3 shots now and still only 1 point. Stalkers still seem to be free – but look even more stupid now eliminators exist.

The Vigilus stratagems to let the various different bolt rifles fire at RF2, auto hit at close range, or snipe characters, are all in there. They work on any intercessors – not just veterans. They cost 2CPs though, or 3 to let stalkers shoot characters. You can make squads into veterans too, at 1 CP or 2 for squads of 6+. And there’s one to let a unit fire as if it was standing still.

Chaplains might be worth taking. They’re cheap and they now do something kind of new. And they aren’t terrible at fighting.

Reivers are unchanged. Seriously. Aggressors and inceptors both got an extra wound and aggressors have 3 attacks, so they are far better. Poor reivers.

Burning blade is now D2, which makes it vastly better – and thereby makes a lot of Primaris guys who can only have a power sword better. A Primaris captain with the burning blade is nasty, and even a lieutenant with one is decent.

Incursor is 19. Infiltrator 22. Intercessor still 17. I can actually see a strong case for taking Incursors instead of infiltrators. They lose the 12” deep strike bubble but they still get to deploy forward, and cost 3ppm less.

Impulsor 75. The guns for this are kind of lame but it can have a 4++, so it will. I thought maybe people would be able to fire out but they can’t. I expect to see this thing’s points go up, because right now it’s very low in my opinion. Can't transport aggressors though, which is a big deal. No catapulting flamer guys miles forward.

Invictor 90 – but wargear adds a lot to that I think. I think the fist might be free but you’ve got the two ironhail stubbers, heavy bolter, frag launcher and the main gun to pay for. Blurry so I couldn’t see that price. That said, these guys look fantastic to me – loads of dakka (15+D6 shots) on a thing that infiltrates and has a 10” move. Fantastic and well worth the ~140-150 that I think it’ll cost.

There’s a fun strat for if a land raider or repulsor dies. It can explode or fire a gun with its undamaged BS. Revenge!

I’m kind of amazed they didn’t fix reivers, given how many other toys they gave us. That unit remains absolute trash tier. It's not really a problem because I don't like them anyway, but it's a bit lame.

What does making a squad veteran do?

 warboss wrote:
What does making a squad veteran do?

assuming nothing from VD has changed it's +1 to attacks and leadership, they also gain the veteran keyword.

it's pretty solid, you'll have intercessors with 4 attacks each on the charge.

Mandragola wrote:
Some takes from watching a review:

Intercessor sergeants can now have thunder hammers. Assault bolters really are 3 shots now and still only 1 point. Stalkers still seem to be free – but look even more stupid now eliminators exist.

The Vigilus stratagems to let the various different bolt rifles fire at RF2, auto hit at close range, or snipe characters, are all in there. They work on any intercessors – not just veterans. They cost 2CPs though, or 3 to let stalkers shoot characters. You can make squads into veterans too, at 1 CP or 2 for squads of 6+. And there’s one to let a unit fire as if it was standing still.

Chaplains might be worth taking. They’re cheap and they now do something kind of new. And they aren’t terrible at fighting.

Reivers are unchanged. Seriously. Aggressors and inceptors both got an extra wound and aggressors have 3 attacks, so they are far better. Poor reivers.

Burning blade is now D2, which makes it vastly better – and thereby makes a lot of Primaris guys who can only have a power sword better. A Primaris captain with the burning blade is nasty, and even a lieutenant with one is decent.

Incursor is 19. Infiltrator 22. Intercessor still 17. I can actually see a strong case for taking Incursors instead of infiltrators. They lose the 12” deep strike bubble but they still get to deploy forward, and cost 3ppm less.

Impulsor 75. The guns for this are kind of lame but it can have a 4++, so it will. I thought maybe people would be able to fire out but they can’t. I expect to see this thing’s points go up, because right now it’s very low in my opinion. Can't transport aggressors though, which is a big deal. No catapulting flamer guys miles forward.

Invictor 90 – but wargear adds a lot to that I think. I think the fist might be free but you’ve got the two ironhail stubbers, heavy bolter, frag launcher and the main gun to pay for. Blurry so I couldn’t see that price. That said, these guys look fantastic to me – loads of dakka (15+D6 shots) on a thing that infiltrates and has a 10” move. Fantastic and well worth the ~140-150 that I think it’ll cost.

There’s a fun strat for if a land raider or repulsor dies. It can explode or fire a gun with its undamaged BS. Revenge!

I’m kind of amazed they didn’t fix reivers, given how many other toys they gave us. That unit remains absolute trash tier. It's not really a problem because I don't like them anyway, but it's a bit lame.

What are you talking about for Reivers? They went down two points, terror troops now stacks, and Phobos lieutenants get terror troops.

 Apple Peel wrote:

What are you talking about for Reivers? They went down two points, terror troops now stacks, and Phobos lieutenants get terror troops.

The Lieutenant sucks though. He is a melee character without a melee weapon.

 Crimson wrote:

 Apple Peel wrote:

What are you talking about for Reivers? They went down two points, terror troops now stacks, and Phobos lieutenants get terror troops.

The Lieutenant sucks though. He is a melee character without a melee weapon.

he can get 5 attacks gaining additional hits wiuth every roll or 6. that's not BAD. especially as it can get AP -1 in the assault doctrine. it's not great no but if you're advancing him up with reivers you're proably not using him in melee vs a Knight.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Apple Peel wrote:

What are you talking about for Reivers? They went down two points, terror troops now stacks, and Phobos lieutenants get terror troops.

The Lieutenant sucks though. He is a melee character without a melee weapon.

he can get 5 attacks gaining additional hits wiuth every roll or 6. that's not BAD. especially as it can get AP -1 in the assault doctrine. it's not great no but if you're advancing him up with reivers you're proably not using him in melee vs a Knight.

And with him and Reivers, you are stacking at least -2 ld. Add in a Phobos librarian with the negative leadership power and you are at -3 ld. Don’t know how many times it will stack, but it does.

BrianDavion wrote:

he can get 5 attacks gaining additional hits wiuth every roll or 6. that's not BAD. especially as it can get AP -1 in the assault doctrine. it's not great no but if you're advancing him up with reivers you're proably not using him in melee vs a Knight.

It's bad. An intercessor sergeant outperforms him. For a dedicated combat character that is pathetic.

 Crimson wrote:

 Apple Peel wrote:

What are you talking about for Reivers? They went down two points, terror troops now stacks, and Phobos lieutenants get terror troops.

The Lieutenant sucks though. He is a melee character without a melee weapon.

Didn't the reiver carbine also go up to assault 3 to match the auto bolt rifle. I think it did. That's a lot of dakka to deepstrike in turn 2 with tactical doctrine.

I think the soldier blade ultramarine relic can be used on the phobos lieutenants now too since they get a combat knife.

dsraider1 wrote:

Didn't the reiver carbine also go up to assault 3 to match the auto bolt rifle. I think it did. That's a lot of dakka to deepstrike in turn 2 with tactical doctrine.

If it did I haven't seen any review mentioning it.

I think the soldier blade ultramarine relic can be used on the phobos lieutenants now too since they get a combat knife.

Yes, that is a good relic, but I'm super salty that it is not a generic one as it it is basically required for making that character functional and it is given to a chapter whose forte traditionally is not close combat.

Also he's not a dedicated close combat char, he's a support character. gone are the days when space marine characters where designed to be one man engines of destruction. they they're designed more as "buff bots"

BrianDavion wrote:
Also he's not a dedicated close combat char, he's a support character. gone are the days when space marine characters where designed to be one man engines of destruction. they they're designed more as "buff bots"

Then why is there a knife and pistol loadout? What's the point? And why can the normal Primaris lieutenant who is not a terror warrior with an ability to drop close to the enemy have a power sword? Why can sergeant of a shooty Intercessor squad?

Yes, that is a good relic, but I'm super salty that it is not a generic one as it it is basically required for making that character functional and it is given to a chapter whose forte traditionally is not close combat.

I'm sure some of the other chapters will get combat knife relics in their supplements, and those that don't can use pistol relics.