Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

These expansion books tend to be limited run rather than permanent stock. I wonder if GW will reprint the same BT rules in a proper codex supplement once PA2 goes out of print, and release new Primaris BT at the same time.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:


Hopefully BT will get a stand alone 2.0 supplement in the future with some real models updates.

From everything we know from the rumours of this release the PA volume 2 IS BTs 2.0 supplement book with a few other factions thrown in for fluff/cash grabby reasons.

Apparently the legions each get a page with stratagems, relic(s) and WL trait(s). I suspect that'll be it for every faction that isn't BT.

You forgot and "rules for design a subfaction"

but yes that'll proably be it. still a page of subfaction traits, relics and stratagems could be a real blessing for some armies. and possiably eneugh to keep them on an even keel with marines

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
I meant Primaris.

I hate primaris personally, but the writing's on the wall. It's primaris or nothing now.

I can't bring myself to buy them because I hate most of everything that's been released except for intercessors.

I can't bring myself to buy old marines because they're going to get squatted and their proportions look terrible now compared to a lot of GW newer models

I’ve seen a couple of “nods” towards the Primaris melee unit being released in 2020. Date wise it’s still unclear though – also it’s not known whether these are the Hellfury units previously mentioned or something else.


Before anyone decries “yet more Marine releases”, I’ve been told by someone in sales, and essentially GW could currently stop selling everything but Marines and still walk away with a yearly profit right now.

As for new PA thoughts –
PA 2 is practically certain to be BT vs Chaos with all the other factions in there for “narrative purposes”.
PA 3 in December is def going to be BA vs Nids,
And PA 4 in Jan is all but confirmed to be SW vs Orks.

It’s also said, that while there are no new models for PA 2, there will be models for PA 3 and PA 4. Not sure how many though, and the only rumoured one so far is Primaris Mephiston.

Beyond the Jan release, I’ve not heard anything at all.

BrianDavion wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:


Hopefully BT will get a stand alone 2.0 supplement in the future with some real models updates.

From everything we know from the rumours of this release the PA volume 2 IS BTs 2.0 supplement book with a few other factions thrown in for fluff/cash grabby reasons.

Apparently the legions each get a page with stratagems, relic(s) and WL trait(s). I suspect that'll be it for every faction that isn't BT.

You forgot and "rules for design a subfaction"

but yes that'll proably be it. still a page of subfaction traits, relics and stratagems could be a real blessing for some armies. and possiably eneugh to keep them on an even keel with marines

They're not going to have EC or WE design your own subfaction traits. They're already a subfaction.

It depends what the relics, stratagems etc are as to whether it puts them on an even keel with marines, regardless, as has literally been said on the previous page - this isn't the topic for that. Stop bringing it up.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:


Hopefully BT will get a stand alone 2.0 supplement in the future with some real models updates.

From everything we know from the rumours of this release the PA volume 2 IS BTs 2.0 supplement book with a few other factions thrown in for fluff/cash grabby reasons.

Apparently the legions each get a page with stratagems, relic(s) and WL trait(s). I suspect that'll be it for every faction that isn't BT.

You forgot and "rules for design a subfaction"

but yes that'll proably be it. still a page of subfaction traits, relics and stratagems could be a real blessing for some armies. and possiably eneugh to keep them on an even keel with marines

They're not going to have EC or WE design your own subfaction traits. They're already a subfaction.

It depends what the relics, stratagems etc are as to whether it puts them on an even keel with marines, regardless, as has literally been said on the previous page - this isn't the topic for that. Stop bringing it up.

This was my understanding as well… The only thing CSM are getting is a page of relics, strats and traits per faction (whether or not this is per Legion I don’t know).

Kdash wrote:


This was my understanding as well… The only thing CSM are getting is a page of relics, strats and traits per faction (whether or not this is per Legion I don’t know).

Yea I believe it's per legion but rumours be rumours.

I'd not be too suprised if we got a "Warband traits" rules for CSMs.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
If they were smart, they'd just make new Noise Marine/Terminator/Specialist unit and Berzerker Marines/Terminators/Specialist units, a bunch of characters, a unique vehicle/Daemon Engine or two, a Daemon Primarch, a terrain piece and a Codex for each.

Touche. I wouldn't be MAD if they did that, by any means. But if given the choice between an upgrade kit or using the old models (including the Failcast stuff), I would take the upgrade kit in a heartbeat.

Naa, outside of Loyalist Marines GW doesn't do upgrade sprues anymore.

Noise Marines will get a nice box of 6 Marines (and 1 dead eldar for scenery) for the same price as the 7 Plague Marines.
With the box you'll be able to build two Marines with Bolter, 1 Sonic Blaster, 1 Blastmaster, 1 with Sword of Seduction and Screecher pistol and Sergeant with Doom Siren and Power whip.
Ruleswise you'll still be able to equip all with bolter/Blaster or Sword+ Pistol, 1 guy in a squad with blastmaster.
Sword of seduction is a power sword, for every killed model you roll a die, on a 5+, its unit can't fall back (5pts). Screecher pistol is a bolt pistol with ignores cover (2pts.)

I don't get Noise Marines with Bolters. What's the point? People only ever use them for the noise weapons. That should be their default loadout if anything to make them worth their points.

It will be, once their box-of-six-for-the-price-of-seven-which-is-actually-ten-when-you-think-about-it re-release comes out.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Apparently the legions each get a page with stratagems, relic(s) and WL trait(s). I suspect that'll be it for every faction that isn't BT.

Well, let's hope they don't forget Death Guard again.

 Jidmah wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Apparently the legions each get a page with stratagems, relic(s) and WL trait(s). I suspect that'll be it for every faction that isn't BT.

Well, let's hope they don't forget Death Guard again.

Death Guard are their own faction/book.

It's funny that there's an implied "only" for this kind of thing though. The recent rumor post concerning this stuff was that each subfaction gets a page for Relics, a page for Stratagems, and a page of Warlord Traits...which is basically the same as the Marine supplements.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Apparently the legions each get a page with stratagems, relic(s) and WL trait(s). I suspect that'll be it for every faction that isn't BT.

Well, let's hope they don't forget Death Guard again.

Death Guard are their own faction/book.

It's funny that there's an implied "only" for this kind of thing though. The recent rumor post concerning this stuff was that each subfaction gets a page for Relics, a page for Stratagems, and a page of Warlord Traits...which is basically the same as the Marine supplements.

Ignoring the super doctrines, Marine supplements also got a psyker disipline.

Well, let's hope they don't forget Death Guard again.

No trait more worthless then ever then DG

Altough a general trait rework would be appreciated.

Not Online!!! wrote:

Well, let's hope they don't forget Death Guard again.

No trait more worthless then ever then DG

Altough a general trait rework would be appreciated.

yeah a lotta armies could use a trait re-work.

"-1 to hit is fair and balanced, compared to reroll morale"


GW, 2019.

Not Online!!! wrote:
"-1 to hit is fair and balanced, compared to reroll morale"


GW, 2019.

One subfaction gets:

Reroll morale

One subfaction gets:

Reroll morale
5+ overwatch
6++ FNP
Vehicles Degrade Slower
Move and fire heavy weapons
RR 1s with heavy weapons
extra -1 AP on heavy weapons
If they run out of stuff with heavy weapons, they can choose to exchange the last 3 for -1AP on bolt weapons

very hot balance takes from new GW, so glad they've changed their ways.

the_scotsman wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
"-1 to hit is fair and balanced, compared to reroll morale"


GW, 2019.

One subfaction gets:

Reroll morale

One subfaction gets:

Reroll morale
5+ overwatch
6++ FNP
Vehicles Degrade Slower
Move and fire heavy weapons
RR 1s with heavy weapons
extra -1 AP on heavy weapons
If they run out of stuff with heavy weapons, they can choose to exchange the last 3 for -1AP on bolt weapons

very hot balance takes from new GW, so glad they've changed their ways.

i meant more the internal balance of the old dexes.
But he we are now officially at 8th 2.0

Not Online!!! wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
"-1 to hit is fair and balanced, compared to reroll morale"


GW, 2019.

One subfaction gets:

Reroll morale

One subfaction gets:

Reroll morale
5+ overwatch
6++ FNP
Vehicles Degrade Slower
Move and fire heavy weapons
RR 1s with heavy weapons
extra -1 AP on heavy weapons
If they run out of stuff with heavy weapons, they can choose to exchange the last 3 for -1AP on bolt weapons

very hot balance takes from new GW, so glad they've changed their ways.

i meant more the internal balance of the old dexes.
But he we are now officially at 8th 2.0

Or we would be, if there was any indication that other factions were getting anywhere near the same level of massive blanket army-wide buffs?

Army-wide RR 1s, move and fire heavy, and extra -1AP on heavy weapons would be considered the best set of chapter tactics available in many codexes. If a Guard army could have that, holy crap. But we've already had the Eldar "2.0" release, and did Ulthwe go from having a 6++ to getting a 6++ and half a dozen other armywide buffs, a bunch of unique strats, and their own psychic discipline? No, they did not. They got choose your own adventure chapter tactics, which are balanced against the other 1.0 level chapter tactics from their book which were unchanged. Eldar were what, the fourth codex released? They were certainly back in the era when all the chapter tactics looked like they'd be copy/pastes of each other, before the guard book went off those rails.

the_scotsman wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
"-1 to hit is fair and balanced, compared to reroll morale"


GW, 2019.

One subfaction gets:

Reroll morale

One subfaction gets:

Reroll morale
5+ overwatch
6++ FNP
Vehicles Degrade Slower
Move and fire heavy weapons
RR 1s with heavy weapons
extra -1 AP on heavy weapons
If they run out of stuff with heavy weapons, they can choose to exchange the last 3 for -1AP on bolt weapons

very hot balance takes from new GW, so glad they've changed their ways.

Is this for real??? Excuse the stupid question, but I'm not informed about the new marine stuff. If it is, this is incredible stupid.

Waaaghbert wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
"-1 to hit is fair and balanced, compared to reroll morale"


GW, 2019.

One subfaction gets:

Reroll morale

One subfaction gets:

Reroll morale
5+ overwatch
6++ FNP
Vehicles Degrade Slower
Move and fire heavy weapons
RR 1s with heavy weapons
extra -1 AP on heavy weapons
If they run out of stuff with heavy weapons, they can choose to exchange the last 3 for -1AP on bolt weapons

very hot balance takes from new GW, so glad they've changed their ways.

Is this for real??? Excuse the stupid question, but I'm not informed about the new marine stuff. If it is, this is incredible stupid.

This is what you get if you take a pure IH army and stay in Devastator doctrine all game. (Plus a unique list of stratagems, relics, warlord traits, and your own Iron Handomancy psychic discipline.

and you better believe all the other chapters also get similar stuff, they just aren't as bonkers as IH)

BrianDavion wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Apparently the legions each get a page with stratagems, relic(s) and WL trait(s). I suspect that'll be it for every faction that isn't BT.

Well, let's hope they don't forget Death Guard again.

Death Guard are their own faction/book.

It's funny that there's an implied "only" for this kind of thing though. The recent rumor post concerning this stuff was that each subfaction gets a page for Relics, a page for Stratagems, and a page of Warlord Traits...which is basically the same as the Marine supplements.

Ignoring the super doctrines, Marine supplements also got a psyker disipline.

& as part of their book, updated Chapter traits which apply to vehicles - something that CSM are badly in need of, but are evidently not receiving in PA2.

 Marshal Loss wrote:

& as part of their book, updated Chapter traits which apply to vehicles - something that CSM are badly in need of, but are evidently not receiving in PA2.

Only where applicable though.

Raven Guard, for example, specifically disallows vehicles from benefiting from the -1 to be hit when in/on terrain.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Marshal Loss wrote:

& as part of their book, updated Chapter traits which apply to vehicles - something that CSM are badly in need of, but are evidently not receiving in PA2.

Only where applicable though.

Raven Guard, for example, specifically disallows vehicles from benefiting from the -1 to be hit when in/on terrain.

I've had it with these apologetics! I DEMAND rules that allow my Thousand Sons vehicles to benefit from my chapter tactic RIGHT NOW!

And once my land raider has +6" range to all its psychic powers, then...then the world shall TREMBLE.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Marshal Loss wrote:

& as part of their book, updated Chapter traits which apply to vehicles - something that CSM are badly in need of, but are evidently not receiving in PA2.

Only where applicable though.

Raven Guard, for example, specifically disallows vehicles from benefiting from the -1 to be hit when in/on terrain.

I've had it with these apologetics! I DEMAND rules that allow my Thousand Sons vehicles to benefit from my chapter tactic RIGHT NOW!

And once my land raider has +6" range to all its psychic powers, then...then the world shall TREMBLE.

There are all sorts of ways that the TS could be expanded on. Resurrecting the Prosperine Cults, for example, to allow you to tailor Rubric units for specific roles. I mean, GW won’t do that, but they COULD.

Kdash wrote:

I’ve seen a couple of “nods” towards the Primaris melee unit being released in 2020. Date wise it’s still unclear though – also it’s not known whether these are the Hellfury units previously mentioned or something else.


Before anyone decries “yet more Marine releases”, I’ve been told by someone in sales, and essentially GW could currently stop selling everything but Marines and still walk away with a yearly profit right now.

As for new PA thoughts –
PA 2 is practically certain to be BT vs Chaos with all the other factions in there for “narrative purposes”.
PA 3 in December is def going to be BA vs Nids,
And PA 4 in Jan is all but confirmed to be SW vs Orks.

It’s also said, that while there are no new models for PA 2, there will be models for PA 3 and PA 4. Not sure how many though, and the only rumoured one so far is Primaris Mephiston.

Beyond the Jan release, I’ve not heard anything at all.

So.... going by this bit of rumor, Vol2 is the only volume to not get new models? Thats fairly lame actually. I can't speak for the CSM half, but BT could sure as hell use some updates for their chapter bits at minimum. It just doesn't make sense to me that we would get new models in the other 3 volumes, but not this one. That feels like a let down. That's IF this information is accurate.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Marshal Loss wrote:

& as part of their book, updated Chapter traits which apply to vehicles - something that CSM are badly in need of, but are evidently not receiving in PA2.

Only where applicable though.

Raven Guard, for example, specifically disallows vehicles from benefiting from the -1 to be hit when in/on terrain.

Well yeah, obviously.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Marshal Loss wrote:

& as part of their book, updated Chapter traits which apply to vehicles - something that CSM are badly in need of, but are evidently not receiving in PA2.

Only where applicable though.

Raven Guard, for example, specifically disallows vehicles from benefiting from the -1 to be hit when in/on terrain.

I've had it with these apologetics! I DEMAND rules that allow my Thousand Sons vehicles to benefit from my chapter tactic RIGHT NOW!

And once my land raider has +6" range to all its psychic powers, then...then the world shall TREMBLE.

Yes, and Word Bearer tanks being occasionally braver than usual isn't particularly useful either. Conversely, some traits on vehicles would be brilliant. If most traits were updated to gain an extra ability as part of their Legion tactics, just as the Loyalist chapter traits were updated, these issues would be minimized. It doesn't matter if not all Legions have traits that apply to vehicles, but an arbitrary and wholesale exclusion is utterly nonsensical

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Apparently the legions each get a page with stratagems, relic(s) and WL trait(s). I suspect that'll be it for every faction that isn't BT.

Well, let's hope they don't forget Death Guard again.

Death Guard are their own faction/book.

It's funny that there's an implied "only" for this kind of thing though. The recent rumor post concerning this stuff was that each subfaction gets a page for Relics, a page for Stratagems, and a page of Warlord Traits...which is basically the same as the Marine supplements.

No, i was referring to the fact that TS and DG were one of the few armies who got absolutely nothing out of Vigilus. I'd like to have slightly more than absolutely nothing from Psychic Awakening, and I'd totally be fine with a relic, a warlord trait and a stratagem - considering that most subfactions have 2-3 times as many stratagems as death guard does.

Again:
Death Guard are their own faction/book. They showed up certainly, but so did the Skitarii...and the only AdMech stuff had nothing to do with what actually featured in the book.

Kdash wrote:
PA 2 is practically certain to be BT vs Chaos with all the other factions in there for “narrative purposes”.

Yeah I mean there is a Fleur de Lys prominently on display on everything about the PA2, this all points toward a 100% BT-oriented issue.

BrianDavion wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:


Hopefully BT will get a stand alone 2.0 supplement in the future with some real models updates.

From everything we know from the rumours of this release the PA volume 2 IS BTs 2.0 supplement book with a few other factions thrown in for fluff/cash grabby reasons.

Apparently the legions each get a page with stratagems, relic(s) and WL trait(s). I suspect that'll be it for every faction that isn't BT.

You forgot and "rules for design a subfaction"

but yes that'll proably be it. still a page of subfaction traits, relics and stratagems could be a real blessing for some armies. and possiably eneugh to keep them on an even keel with marines

Strats, Relics, WL Traits and Subfaction rules? That's way more than DE got out of PA.