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 Kanluwen wrote:

So more or less the same rules content as the supplement books is "basic lip service job to the legions"?

Coolcoolcool.

.

So, all the loyalists got:

-Effectively doubled chapter tactics for most chapters (most got an additional rule tacked on to their previous CT rule)
-CTs on all models including vehicles
-special doctrines adding -1 AP to whole categories of weapons
-A whole bunch of new stratagems added on to the base codex
-Successor Chapter buildabear chapter rules that allow you to get the bonuses and doctrines of one of the base chapters (meaning basically if you like the super-goodies of a chapter but don't like the CT rule, you can just swap that gak and have 11" flamers or whatever)
-Super doctrines for each chapter, adding extra rules/extra AP on top of the usual -1AP bonus
-A new psychic discipline for each chapter
-relics, strats, and wl traits for each chapter

And CSMs are getting:

-Relics, strats, and wl traits for each legion

And that's more or less the same to you?

Ah, the salt mine is open on Monday morning. Am I really seeing complaints about Salamanders not getting something when they just got a supplement?

Reading the preview, looks like we will have a good chunk of content from the book. Will be nice for BT to get a shot in the arm for the first time since.... 3rd?

Eh. Marines aren't actually getting releases for models with the book, just an independent release of the Shadowspear sprue.
They don't really need anything more, what with just having had a codex drop and a wildly too lengthy spread out release.

Glad to see Sisters coming in though. The new Chaos Sorcerer is nice too.

Cute to see people still hoping they will get new models for BT's. Or new Traits for the CSM Legions.

We already know we won't have any new model for any army except the Chaos Sorcerer that was previewed last week. And we also know there will be no revamped Legion Traits for the CSM.

Interesting the daemon weapon does not preclude using a command re-roll.

That khorne one would be pretty nasty i guess on a khorne WE prince.

6 s10/11 (average), hitting on 2's with a re-roll -5 2dmg attacks. About 9 wounds off a knight on the charge.

the_scotsman wrote:
Also, a melee weapon with an AP of -5.

Adorable, GW. Very cute.

What's wrong with that? It removes a 2+ armour save. I'm sure 2+ units without an invulnerable save like Sanguinary Guard or units affected by some debuff that takes their invulnerable save wouldn't like to face that thing.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

So more or less the same rules content as the supplement books is "basic lip service job to the legions"?

Coolcoolcool.

.

So, all the loyalists got:

-Effectively doubled chapter tactics for most chapters (most got an additional rule tacked on to their previous CT rule)
-CTs on all models including vehicles
-special doctrines adding -1 AP to whole categories of weapons
-A whole bunch of new stratagems added on to the base codex
-Successor Chapter buildabear chapter rules that allow you to get the bonuses and doctrines of one of the base chapters (meaning basically if you like the super-goodies of a chapter but don't like the CT rule, you can just swap that gak and have 11" flamers or whatever)
-Super doctrines for each chapter, adding extra rules/extra AP on top of the usual -1AP bonus
-A new psychic discipline for each chapter
-relics, strats, and wl traits for each chapter

And CSMs are getting:

-Relics, strats, and wl traits for each legion

And that's more or less the same to you?

So.... you are adding in what loyalists get from multiple books and comparing that to what CSM gets from just this one book? Am I reading that right? Seems a bit skewed doesn't it?

 Karthicus wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

So more or less the same rules content as the supplement books is "basic lip service job to the legions"?

Coolcoolcool.

.

So, all the loyalists got:

-Effectively doubled chapter tactics for most chapters (most got an additional rule tacked on to their previous CT rule)
-CTs on all models including vehicles
-special doctrines adding -1 AP to whole categories of weapons
-A whole bunch of new stratagems added on to the base codex
-Successor Chapter buildabear chapter rules that allow you to get the bonuses and doctrines of one of the base chapters (meaning basically if you like the super-goodies of a chapter but don't like the CT rule, you can just swap that gak and have 11" flamers or whatever)
-Super doctrines for each chapter, adding extra rules/extra AP on top of the usual -1AP bonus
-A new psychic discipline for each chapter
-relics, strats, and wl traits for each chapter

And CSMs are getting:

-Relics, strats, and wl traits for each legion

And that's more or less the same to you?

So.... you are adding in what loyalists get from multiple books and comparing that to what CSM gets from just this one book? Am I reading that right? Seems a bit skewed doesn't it?

Chaos SM have 3 books now to get that aswell, so yes it's about fair.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Redemption wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Also, a melee weapon with an AP of -5.

Adorable, GW. Very cute.

What's wrong with that? It removes a 2+ armour save. I'm sure 2+ units without an invulnerable save like Sanguinary Guard or units affected by some debuff that takes their invulnerable save wouldn't like to face that thing.

And every other unit with an invulnerable will laugh his ass off?
I mean GW allready threw out invuls like candy and we have no other indication if the daemonweapons will be free.

 Latro_ wrote:
Interesting the daemon weapon does not preclude using a command re-roll.

That khorne one would be pretty nasty i guess on a khorne WE prince.

7 s10/11 (average), hitting on 2's with a re-roll -5 2dmg attacks. About 9-10 wounds off a knight on the charge.

sorry 7 attacks! with hateful assault

so more like a strong 10 wounds vs a knight

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Redemption wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Also, a melee weapon with an AP of -5.

Adorable, GW. Very cute.

What's wrong with that? It removes a 2+ armour save. I'm sure 2+ units without an invulnerable save like Sanguinary Guard or units affected by some debuff that takes their invulnerable save wouldn't like to face that thing.

And every other unit with an invulnerable will laugh his ass off?
I mean GW allready threw out invuls like candy and we have no other indication if the daemonweapons will be free.

It looks to be a relic, so I imagine it would have the same costs as any other relic in the game so far.

Index chaos,
Codex CSM,
CA17,
CA18,
Vigilus Ablaze,
Codex CSM 2.0,
PA Faith and Fury,
CA19

8 sources in just over 3 years to play a single faction is insane. Especially when you realize the Chaos Codex is still busted and in need of a 9th attempt

the_scotsman wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

So more or less the same rules content as the supplement books is "basic lip service job to the legions"?

Coolcoolcool.

So, all the loyalists got:

-Effectively doubled chapter tactics for most chapters (most got an additional rule tacked on to their previous CT rule)

This was done in the main codex. Additionally, I really wouldn't be shocked if there's something similar done with this.

-CTs on all models including vehicles

Codex--and doesn't actually apply to all models including vehicles. Read the Raven Guard trait, for example, which specifically calls out Vehicles as being unable to benefit.

-special doctrines adding -1 AP to whole categories of weapons

Codex--and frankly, handled rather poorly.

-A whole bunch of new stratagems added on to the base codex

Bolded for emphasis.

-Successor Chapter buildabear chapter rules that allow you to get the bonuses and doctrines of one of the base chapters (meaning basically if you like the super-goodies of a chapter but don't like the CT rule, you can just swap that gak and have 11" flamers or whatever)

Guess where these are found...
Additionally, some aspects of the CT rules aren't present--"Stealthy", for example, does not grant the -1 to be hit while in cover that the RG trait bestows on infantry.

-Super doctrines for each chapter, adding extra rules/extra AP on top of the usual -1AP bonus
-A new psychic discipline for each chapter
-relics, strats, and wl traits for each chapter

First time you've actually mentioned something in one of the supplements!

And CSMs are getting:

-Relics, strats, and wl traits for each legion

And that's more or less the same to you?

Reading is fundamental.
You'd have an argument if, say, we were talking six pages of relics for the supplements, six pages of warlord traits, no name generators, yadda yadda yadda.

As it stands?
Daemon Weapons seems to have taken the place of the "Special Issue Wargear"(which is intended to allow for a Successor Chapter to take advantage of) that the supplement books come with, you get half as many Stratagems as the supplement books, but the rest looks to be about on par.

How are people surprised that the Crusader Squad is in the book?? We knew that was coming already! Were you seriously hoping they'd force every Black Templars player to rip off all the chainsword and bolt pistol arms from their Marines?

 Red Corsair wrote:
Index chaos,
Codex CSM,
CA17,
CA18,
Vigilus Ablaze,
Codex CSM 2.0,
PA Faith and Fury,
CA19

8 sources in just over 3 years to play a single faction is insane. Especially when you realize the Chaos Codex is still busted and in need of a 9th attempt

Didn't you forget shadowspear booklet?
That had traits in it aswell and was used to invalidated old obliterators.
So that would be the 10th if anything.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
How are people surprised that the Crusader Squad is in the book?? We knew that was coming already! Were you seriously hoping they'd force every Black Templars player to rip off all the chainsword and bolt pistol arms from their Marines?

I don't think anyone is - given that most Marine Chapters have signature units its a pity that GW is so constrained by the no models rule that they can not be represented except on the priverlaged Chapters.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Index chaos,
Codex CSM,
CA17,
CA18,
Vigilus Ablaze,
Codex CSM 2.0,
PA Faith and Fury,
CA19

8 sources in just over 3 years to play a single faction is insane. Especially when you realize the Chaos Codex is still busted and in need of a 9th attempt

While I certainly that anymore than ONE source for a single faction is too many, I think you are exaggerating by saying you need 8. 4-5 maybe but since CA19 replaces CA18 which replaced CA17, that's 2 less sources right there. Same with Codex CSM 2.0 replacing Codex CSM.

And many people ignore the Index at this point in 8E, so if we do the same, we are really just looking at:

Codex CSM 2.0
Vigilus Ablaze (optional)
PA Faith & Fury (potentially optional)
CA19

That's still too many sources, but considering there isn't a single faction that has a single source in 8E (IIRC), it's not exactly "unfair" compared to others

-

 Mr Morden wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
How are people surprised that the Crusader Squad is in the book?? We knew that was coming already! Were you seriously hoping they'd force every Black Templars player to rip off all the chainsword and bolt pistol arms from their Marines?

I don't think anyone is - given that most Marine Chapters have signature units its a pity that GW is so constrained by the no models rule that they can not be represented except on the priverlaged Chapters.

Crusader Squads do have models though - that's why the Chapter Upgrade Sprue from 4th edition (?) exists. If it didn't already exist Crusader Squads would probably have been pruned already.

 Marshal Loss wrote:
If Kor Phaeron appears on-screen and is not simply directing the fleet form Sicarus, this will be his first ever actual appearance in non-Heresy lore

And quite possibly the last. No model = no plot armor.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
How are people surprised that the Crusader Squad is in the book?? We knew that was coming already! Were you seriously hoping they'd force every Black Templars player to rip off all the chainsword and bolt pistol arms from their Marines?

I don't think anyone is - given that most Marine Chapters have signature units its a pity that GW is so constrained by the no models rule that they can not be represented except on the priverlaged Chapters.

Crusader Squads do have models though - that's why the Chapter Upgrade Sprue from 4th edition (?) exists. If it didn't already exist Crusader Squads would probably have been pruned already.

yes thats my point - its sad that everything revolves around the no models rule - well except for Grandmaster Babycarriers

 Galas wrote:
the Tau Empire is literally Plato's Republic in action

You just spent a paragraph describing them as Imperial Rome circa 100 BCE onward though

JWBS wrote:

 Galas wrote:
the Tau Empire is literally Plato's Republic in action

You just spent a paragraph describing them as Imperial Rome circa 100 BCE onward though

They work as the Roman Empire in how they are run as an empire, expansion and military wise, and their interactions with the auxiliar races, but their society is Plato's Republic: From the caste of Wise Men, to the Military caste that even has planified reproduction, to the more free earth caste, etc...

the_scotsman wrote:
Eldar PA book had what, 20 pages of rules total? Most of which were a full copy-paste from an already printed white dwarf article?

60 pages of rules in the first book where we have power armored factions again

Also, good to see new rules content for Codex: Space Marines. That faction was really forgotten and languishing, I'm glad they get another half-dozen warlord traits, relics and stratagems to use, they didn't have enough.

All day this.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 Marshal Loss wrote:
If Kor Phaeron appears on-screen and is not simply directing the fleet form Sicarus, this will be his first ever actual appearance in non-Heresy lore

And quite possibly the last. No model = no plot armor.

Yeah he'll probably get decked by a random Primaris Lieutenant

Anyone see that new prophecy on the Warhammer site? They planning to end-times 40k? I sure hope not.

 Dranu wrote:
Anyone see that new prophecy on the Warhammer site? They planning to end-times 40k? I sure hope not.

Not really any reason to do so.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Eldar PA book had what, 20 pages of rules total? Most of which were a full copy-paste from an already printed white dwarf article?

60 pages of rules in the first book where we have power armored factions again

Also, good to see new rules content for Codex: Space Marines. That faction was really forgotten and languishing, I'm glad they get another half-dozen warlord traits, relics and stratagems to use, they didn't have enough.

All day this.

An Englishman and Scotsman walk into a Bugmans' bar.

Any GW staff drinking nearby quickly shuffle outside.

 xttz wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Eldar PA book had what, 20 pages of rules total? Most of which were a full copy-paste from an already printed white dwarf article?

60 pages of rules in the first book where we have power armored factions again

Also, good to see new rules content for Codex: Space Marines. That faction was really forgotten and languishing, I'm glad they get another half-dozen warlord traits, relics and stratagems to use, they didn't have enough.

All day this.

An Englishman and Scotsman walk into a Bugmans' bar.

Any GW staff drinking nearby quickly shuffle outside.

In shame

 Galas wrote:

JWBS wrote:

 Galas wrote:
the Tau Empire is literally Plato's Republic in action

You just spent a paragraph describing them as Imperial Rome circa 100 BCE onward though

They work as the Roman Empire in how they are run as an empire, expansion and military wise, and their interactions with the auxiliar races, but their society is Plato's Republic: From the caste of Wise Men, to the Military caste that even has planified reproduction, to the more free earth caste, etc...

Ah ok I see. I suppose there's nothing stopping GW making them both Republic and Empire simultaneously.

 Marshal Loss wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 Marshal Loss wrote:
If Kor Phaeron appears on-screen and is not simply directing the fleet form Sicarus, this will be his first ever actual appearance in non-Heresy lore

And quite possibly the last. No model = no plot armor.

Yeah he'll probably get decked by a random Primaris Lieutenant

Or a Black Templars^TM Primaris Chaplain^TM with the Master of Sanctity^TM stratagem!

 xttz wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Eldar PA book had what, 20 pages of rules total? Most of which were a full copy-paste from an already printed white dwarf article?

60 pages of rules in the first book where we have power armored factions again

Also, good to see new rules content for Codex: Space Marines. That faction was really forgotten and languishing, I'm glad they get another half-dozen warlord traits, relics and stratagems to use, they didn't have enough.

All day this.

An Englishman and Scotsman walk into a Bugmans' bar.

Any GW staff drinking nearby quickly shuffle outside.

Very good, you actually made me lol.

Well played incalculable intelligence from beyond the stars...well played.