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Made in us
Esteemed Veteran Space Marine




San Jose, CA

Sterling191 wrote:
Spoiler:
Cronch wrote:

As pointed out, this is from a video game, not canon material. However, let's assume this is in fact canon, and Tau do practice state-enforced birth control for conquered species, that's still nowhere near the same level of hate towards human life that Imperium displays on regular basis.


I see we've entered into the "degrees of genocide" portion of our internet scream fest.


Sterling191 wrote:
Cronch wrote:

As pointed out, this is from a video game, not canon material. However, let's assume this is in fact canon, and Tau do practice state-enforced birth control for conquered species, that's still nowhere near the same level of hate towards human life that Imperium displays on regular basis.


I see we've entered into the "degrees of genocide" portion of our internet scream fest.

Tau do it with a smile, then a gun, Imperium forgoes the smile....still the same thing.

The only good guys are the Cabal.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/11/11 20:22:29


 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Racerguy180 wrote:
Sterling191 wrote:
Spoiler:
Cronch wrote:

As pointed out, this is from a video game, not canon material. However, let's assume this is in fact canon, and Tau do practice state-enforced birth control for conquered species, that's still nowhere near the same level of hate towards human life that Imperium displays on regular basis.


I see we've entered into the "degrees of genocide" portion of our internet scream fest.


Sterling191 wrote:
Cronch wrote:

As pointed out, this is from a video game, not canon material. However, let's assume this is in fact canon, and Tau do practice state-enforced birth control for conquered species, that's still nowhere near the same level of hate towards human life that Imperium displays on regular basis.


I see we've entered into the "degrees of genocide" portion of our internet scream fest.

Tau do it with a smile, then a gun, Imperium forgoes the smile....still the same thing.

The only good guys are the Cabal.


Nah, Necrons
Just welcome your new Robotic overlords.
I joke, of course...we all know its Orks.

I mean, they are the purest form of meritocracy. Don't want to get krumped? Just get stronger. Want to move up in life? Get stronger.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/11 20:29:25


What I have
~4100
~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in fr
Hallowed Canoness





Racerguy180 wrote:
The only good guys are the Cabal.

Wrong. It's grox. Grox are the good guys.

 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps




Kdash wrote:
So, this points to the previous belief that Chaos won't be getting any points changes.

It does, however, remain to be seen what the "Champions of Ruin" section is all about, and whether it affects CSM in a similar way to "successors". Might just be a fluff introduction though.

Its one page. Whatever it is, and an introduction is most likely, it isn't going to do much. It certainly isn't going to pack 4+ datasheets.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Damn. That's... a lot of stuff for Marines. Guess that's the downside to being a new army that isn't out yet. No rules for you new Sisters... not yet anyway.

I mean we joke (some of us do anyway) about the Marines getting tons of stuff whereas everyone else gets gak. And here we are, after a Marine Codex and 6 supplements with another book filled with Marine rules. And the next book is about Blood Angels. Yikes...



the_scotsman wrote:
Orks, Tau, Eldar, Harlequins, hell even Genestealer Cults and maybe Tyranids in general are closer to moral "good guys" than the imperium.
Hardly.

the_scotsman wrote:
CWE and Harlequins are working to preserve their species, they simply do not view humans as intelligent life on the same tier as themselves, in much the same way as we humans would kill a gorilla (F to pay respect) if we thought it was threatening a child.
They view us as vermin that should be exterminated.

the_scotsman wrote:
Tau are pretty much the same level of oppressive as the imperium, except that they will allow alien races to be subjugated rather than eradicated.
Assuming you say yes to their offer. Say no and they'll wipe you out.

the_scotsman wrote:
Orks operate on an entirely different moral framework to humans, because fighting and war are entertainment and reproduction to them.
They still crave wanton destruction. They are inherently malevolent.

the_scotsman wrote:
GSC are rebelling against a corrupt and evil empire. They are unwittingly inviting destruction, but do possess superior morals to the imperium despite that ignorance.
They're also brainwashing everyone into what is essentially a smaller-scale gestalt intelligence. Their "rebellion" is nothing but a dressed up form of alien invasion by way of genetic subversion.

the_scotsman wrote:
And tyranids are just predatory animals acting on instinct.
You do a disservice to the very aware and very dangerous Hive Mind.


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/11/11 22:01:58


   
Made in gb
Wight Lord with the Sword of Kings






UK

Damn. That's... a lot of stuff for Marines. Guess that's the downside to being a new army that isn't out yet. No rules for you new Sisters... not yet anyway.


Well its been so long since the Marines got stuff - oh wait its not.

Same old same old.

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps




 Dranu wrote:
Anyone see that new prophecy on the Warhammer site? They planning to end-times 40k? I sure hope not.


It almost sounds like a lead-in to a 'psychic post-humans' faction.
Though given how psychic armies tend to work out in practice...

But who knows anyway- these prophecies don't seem to mean much.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in gb
Wight Lord with the Sword of Kings






UK

Voss wrote:
 Dranu wrote:
Anyone see that new prophecy on the Warhammer site? They planning to end-times 40k? I sure hope not.


It almost sounds like a lead-in to a 'psychic post-humans' faction.
Though given how psychic armies tend to work out in practice...

But who knows anyway- these prophecies don't seem to mean much.


Yeah we had the nearly-end times when Cadia fell and the galaxy split in half.

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in gb
Stalwart Tribune




Legit Info: Psychic Awakening ends with IoM losing and then 9th Edition hits post collapse of the IoM. With Space Marines + Imperium Forces forced into fleet based e.g. think human craftworlds/possible human webway usage. With more Primarchs Awakening with a dead Emperor. - Not Alpha Legion 2019.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/11/11 22:41:19


 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut





Cronch wrote:
Except the tau don't. Tau don't exterminate it's own citizens, Tau don't abandon their own citizens, and Tau care about the well being of their own citizens, and even their client races to a large extent. I can think of one instance of Tau forces going overboard against human opposition, and they got quickly slapped on the wrist by the Ethereal caste for acting too much like their human enemies. So no, they don't "do it".

Um, completely wrong. Look at Tau books by Phil Kelly (wasn't he promoted to GW lore director or something recently?) - they are terribad, but they are the only recent look at the Empire, and it isn't pretty. Space marines board colony ship full of innocent Tau civilians? Ethereal casually orders evacuation of everyone with high rank (and troops, we need to expand the Empire, after all) then orders self destruction of the ship, because astartes chapter is worth more to Imperium than a few million civilians to Empire, making it 'favorable trade'. And that was after Farsight estimated they can retake the ship, just with heavy losses in fire cadre (read - a few thousand at best).

As for extermination, hahahahaha, no. After fourth sphere expansion went bonkers due to submerging into the warp too deeply, they started slaughtering human (and other psychic) Tau empire citizens - because demons and other warp entities make them mad with fear and humans are tied to them. Guess what, no one cared. And that's not even considering FFG rpg books, where humans aligned with Tau are forced to become space Isis and blow themselves up with nuclear suicide belts in Imperial cities and near Imperial units to help Tau take over the sector. Such care, much wow

In fact, the mere continued existence of Tau proves the point that Imperium is wrong in all aspects. Despite being faced with older, meaner, and generally evil-acting races (except for Eldar, who just do eldar things), Tau expand and prosper, without resorting to all the things that Imperium resorts to (which, let's not forget, are also largely against Emperor's vision for humanity back before he became a chair).

Wrong again. Not only there are hints of Tau AI starting going Men of Iron path, the above fourth expansion made warp beings being aware of Tau and possibly created a greater daemon of greater good, something looking very much like proto-Slaanesh being fed emotions of billions of brainwashed beings Tau forced into singlemindedness. Guess how well this can potentially end?

Cronch wrote:
Tau are nowhere near as bad as the Imperium. Imperium's policy towards any technological alien race is automatic destruction if possible. Tau will try to incorporate you by diplomacy first and then by force if they can, but they do give you the option for peaceful incorporation, and they won't genocide you if they win, they just make you a subject of the Ethereals.

Wrong. Imperium has vassal races, too. And besides, most of Imperium's interactions with xenos we see are with Tyranids and Orks, two species you can't negotiate with. Funnily enough, Tau have the exact same approach to both - exterminate on sight. Great difference, eh?

As for being subject to ethereals, it's far more vile and evil than anything Imperium did. In Kelly's books, Tau sculptor keeps (very illegal) pistol under her pillow, taking colossal risk - why? Because she was earth caste, and creative stuff was reserved to water caste only, under threat of lobotomization for 'caste crossing' and being made into something very much resembling servitor. Said Tau was so scared of this fate she kept pistol to disintegrate herself the first moment some outsider discovers her sculptures by accident. Sounds wonderful, eh?

The caste crossing is so terrible crime that even Farsight, commander of whole planet in the middle of Space Marine invasion isn't safe from it - after he pushed a reset button in his suit (earth caste task only) he was nearly made into servitor on the spot and only managed to escape it by doing something even worse to his mentor on ethereal's orders (see below).

Or let's take ethereal needing more commanders. His solution? Take his best officer, lobotomize him with help of his student, put his experience into a chip, then lobotomize dozens of young officers with said chips to give them his experience. Their brains can't cope with that and they will go mad eventually? Not a problem, ethereal ordered them all executed after the battle (save for Farsight's friend who was smuggled out). Even Imperium doesn't do this to their soldiers.

   
Made in gb
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'





UK

ThatMG wrote:
Legit Info: Psychic Awakening ends with IoM losing and then 9th Edition hits post collapse of the IoM. With Space Marines + Imperium Forces forced into fleet based e.g. think human craftworlds/possible human webway usage. With more Primarchs Awakening with a dead Emperor. - Not Alpha Legion 2019.


What makes this legit? I highly doubt 40k 9th is gonna be battle star Galactica edition

 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

ThatMG wrote:
Legit Info: Psychic Awakening ends with IoM losing and then 9th Edition hits post collapse of the IoM. With Space Marines + Imperium Forces forced into fleet based e.g. think human craftworlds/possible human webway usage. With more Primarchs Awakening with a dead Emperor. - Not Alpha Legion 2019.
Not two months ago we had information saying how 40K is not an ongoing story, but is a setting, and that the Psychic Awakening isn't building to a new event, it's just telling a bunch of stories within the current status quo of the galaxy at large.

   
Made in gb
Resentful Grot With a Plan



UK

Looks like Blood of the Phoenix really didn't sell well at all (as many expected): Goblin Gaming in the UK still have over 100 copies and just sent out an email advertising 30% discount!

   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Good.

Maybe now they'll realise that obscene prices for ancient models aren't a good way to packaging up new releases.

   
Made in gb
Stalwart Tribune




 Latro_ wrote:
ThatMG wrote:
Legit Info: Psychic Awakening ends with IoM losing and then 9th Edition hits post collapse of the IoM. With Space Marines + Imperium Forces forced into fleet based e.g. think human craftworlds/possible human webway usage. With more Primarchs Awakening with a dead Emperor. - Not Alpha Legion 2019.


What makes this legit? I highly doubt 40k 9th is gonna be battle star Galactica edition


I was thinking more Battletech Franchise.
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Good.

Maybe now they'll realise that obscene prices for ancient models aren't a good way to packaging up new releases.

This.

Games Workshop definitely got too greedy with the Blood of the Phoenix box. The contents screamed of dust-gathering overstock.
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





ThatMG wrote:
 Latro_ wrote:
ThatMG wrote:
Legit Info: Psychic Awakening ends with IoM losing and then 9th Edition hits post collapse of the IoM. With Space Marines + Imperium Forces forced into fleet based e.g. think human craftworlds/possible human webway usage. With more Primarchs Awakening with a dead Emperor. - Not Alpha Legion 2019.


What makes this legit? I highly doubt 40k 9th is gonna be battle star Galactica edition


I was thinking more Battletech Franchise.


except you diodn't describe Battletech, at all. Humanity isn't running around on starships in Battletech, it's just been fractured into 5 (major) warring states fighting over the corpse of an intersteller empire. GW could do that with 40k, but not really sure there'd be any need to do it as the IoM is pretty fractured. and Battletech also didn't have aliens (and the Inner Sphere has a tendancy to unite, after a period of ineffective bickering) against outside threats, such as the clans or the Word of blake.


as for the space marine stuff, looking at what we're getting... I'm 90% sure this is mostly stuff that was removed from the codex due to lack of room. the chief libby strat we saw in the july white dwarf where we first saw an example of the custom chapter tactics. so GW's been sitting on that while.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/12 00:05:24


Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in us
Hellacious Havoc





Can anyone tell if the Crusader Squad down in the left corner next to the Salamanders are primaris or not?
[Thumb - 40kFaithFuryPreview-Nov11-Opener20hggc.jpg]

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/12 00:14:58


   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Right behind you.

They're not.
   
Made in us
Hellacious Havoc





Bummer, they seemed different at first.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/12 00:19:11


   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

They're the Sword Brethren minis, IIRC.

   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





The dudes in the trench next to the salamanders are 100% Sword Brethren.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Perfected Haemonculi Living Sculpture






 Galef wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:
Index chaos,
Codex CSM,
CA17,
CA18,
Vigilus Ablaze,
Codex CSM 2.0,
PA Faith and Fury,
CA19

8 sources in just over 3 years to play a single faction is insane. Especially when you realize the Chaos Codex is still busted and in need of a 9th attempt
While I certainly that anymore than ONE source for a single faction is too many, I think you are exaggerating by saying you need 8. 4-5 maybe but since CA19 replaces CA18 which replaced CA17, that's 2 less sources right there. Same with Codex CSM 2.0 replacing Codex CSM.

And many people ignore the Index at this point in 8E, so if we do the same, we are really just looking at:

Codex CSM 2.0
Vigilus Ablaze (optional)
PA Faith & Fury (potentially optional)
CA19

That's still too many sources, but considering there isn't a single faction that has a single source in 8E (IIRC), it's not exactly "unfair" compared to others

-


None of that had to do with my point though. If you played chaos at the start of 8th edition, that is how many sources over time you would have been sold in order to remain current. That's incredible considering it's one faction among how many, nearly 30?

   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





maybe on the other hand kvitching about having to buy a new book can be problematic, GW for whatever reason, decided chaos players would object to a new codex, but Vanilla marine players wou;dn't. the end result was CSM got a patch work 2nd codex, that was optional, there was nothing in it aside from the new stuff, if you bought Vigilius and dowlonaded the datacards, you could keep using your old codex, which meant GW didn't make changes to that codex. to the results we've seen. meanwhile the new Marine dex is required, not optional and well.. the results speak for themselves.

Me I don't mind buying a new codex if it actually means IMPROVEMENTS.

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
[***]







Did the Psychic Awakening Book 1 stuff contain any major background reveals?

Did Jain Zar or Dark Eldar Murder Man supreme ‘win’?

Did anything of note happen?
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User



East Tennessee

 Alpharius wrote:
Did the Psychic Awakening Book 1 stuff contain any major background reveals?

Did Jain Zar or Dark Eldar Murder Man supreme ‘win’?

Did anything of note happen?


Spoiler:
Everone dies

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/12 01:16:34


 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Custodes Shield Captain





Where ever the Emperor needs his eyes

John D Law wrote:
Can anyone tell if the Crusader Squad down in the left corner next to the Salamanders are primaris or not?


Manlet Marines I'm afraid.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Ephrael Stern shows up, so that's something.

   
Made in us
Furious Raptor




 Karthicus wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:

So more or less the same rules content as the supplement books is "basic lip service job to the legions"?

Coolcoolcool.

.


So, all the loyalists got:

-Effectively doubled chapter tactics for most chapters (most got an additional rule tacked on to their previous CT rule)
-CTs on all models including vehicles
-special doctrines adding -1 AP to whole categories of weapons
-A whole bunch of new stratagems added on to the base codex
-Successor Chapter buildabear chapter rules that allow you to get the bonuses and doctrines of one of the base chapters (meaning basically if you like the super-goodies of a chapter but don't like the CT rule, you can just swap that gak and have 11" flamers or whatever)
-Super doctrines for each chapter, adding extra rules/extra AP on top of the usual -1AP bonus
-A new psychic discipline for each chapter
-relics, strats, and wl traits for each chapter

And CSMs are getting:

-Relics, strats, and wl traits for each legion

And that's more or less the same to you?



So.... you are adding in what loyalists get from multiple books and comparing that to what CSM gets from just this one book? Am I reading that right? Seems a bit skewed doesn't it?

Ok so even if we accept your "it's ok sm got way more rules than anyone else because some of ours were in our NEW codex" argument (which I don't and I doubt very few other non sm players do) what about the rules disparity in this book?

Loyalist marines are getting the ability to "promote " their hqs for 1 command point giving them extra abilities. Csm don't get that IN THE SAME BOOK.

Explain that.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





BrianDavion wrote:
maybe on the other hand kvitching about having to buy a new book can be problematic, GW for whatever reason, decided chaos players would object to a new codex, but Vanilla marine players wou;dn't. the end result was CSM got a patch work 2nd codex, that was optional, there was nothing in it aside from the new stuff, if you bought Vigilius and dowlonaded the datacards, you could keep using your old codex, which meant GW didn't make changes to that codex. to the results we've seen. meanwhile the new Marine dex is required, not optional and well.. the results speak for themselves.

Me I don't mind buying a new codex if it actually means IMPROVEMENTS.


SM and CSM both seem to have major range replacements/expansions planned for Shadowspear. I wonder if the difference between CSM 2.0 and SM 2.0 was not that GW hates CSM, but that GW had been planning on going the SM supplement route already, which required a further rework of the base SM codex to fit, which led to a bigger revamp than just a compilation codex like CSM got. GW knows that they can sell SM supplements, I mean I still have the books for Clan Raukaan and Sentinels of Terra. It may have been the plan all along to go the full supplement route for SM after getting all the base codices out for 8th. The legion upgrades in PA2, while lesser than the full revamped chapter traits + supplements, are coming out quickly enough that GW probably decided to do it post CSM 1.5 codex while working on the SM 2.0 book. The rules content for the legions involved are similar to the actual rules content of most of the SM supplements (not equal, and not equivalent to the supplement plus base SM codex changes, true)
   
 
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