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Made in gb
Power-Hungry Cultist of Tzeentch




 Brometheus wrote:
deTox91 wrote:
Please please please PA book 4 don't be just a DA/GK codex with 3 stratagems and 3 relics for Thousand Sons, after the nerfs just received with CA we need something...


Honest question: Are you new to TS?


New-ish, why?
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





 Mr Morden wrote:
PA4 is going to to be the same as PA2 and PA3 - yet another Marine supplement in all but name - same as P5 but Wolves rather than Dark Angels

So 50% Dark Angels "Not Codex", 25% generic Marines Boosts, 13% Lore about Some form of Marines and 13% split between Grey Knights and Thousand Sons and maybe 4& on anythig non marine related.


Fun fact, I did a page count of PA2.

Pages devoted to Space Marines (including both the masters of the chapter stuff and the black templars stuff) 22. Of these ten pages are things ALL Marine players can use.
Pages devoted to CSM rules: 38(ok granted 6 or so of these are random name charts). Of these are 3 pages of stuff ALL CSM players can use.

So, PA2 actually devotes MORE Space to CSMs. the problem is that most of the space is devoted to stuff that is legion specific and stuff marines already have so it FEELS like less. I mean, if you're playing Iron Warriors you don't really get anything from the Alpha Legion rules, and someone who plays Black Legion (like me) got mearly 5 new relics out of the book. so despite more pages of CSM stuff, it feels like less value.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in fr
Elite Tyranid Warrior



France

 nintura wrote:
You can't argue with him, it won't work. All I need to see is the following:

https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2019/11/40k-top-list-of-the-week-november-27th-iron-hand-successors-strike-again.html

https://imgur.com/a/ORfF40J


Marines, 11 weeks on top. Imperial right behind. Both for games won, and armies played. And 40k stats pretty much confirms it with a massive 57% mono faction win rate that Astartes are too good.

I'm not defending marine at all because they are indeed overpower (IH were at least for sure) but 57 % win cannot be considered to be a "massive" win rate, especially when it is just in the next few month after release. Some specific marine chapter need a fix, that is true, but the whine on marine (and on marine codexes daaammnnnn) is also seriously aggravating. There's too much jalousy in this game really : some people here have posted dozens if not hundreds of posts just whining about the fact that SW/BA/DA are not in the main SM book and have specific units/restrictions.

I got my hand on the Faith and Fury and book and damn I'm a so bummed. Not even 100 pages, less than 10 page on black templar with almost no fluff, and 6 pages per heretic legion with no fluff at all.There are less than 20 page on the conflict on the Talledus system. The role of the Black Templars in the conflict is almost not explained : they come, they fight and that's it. Those PA book are a complete robbery : 32.5 € for that kind of thing is absurd. Compared to vigilus those books just suck completly. I'll still buy th 4th PA since it has DA in it and I'm a DA player but I'm not waiting for much.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/11/30 19:37:31


 
   
Made in ro
Longtime Dakkanaut





The PA books are showing a pattern consistent with initial rumors.

The bigger the competitive problems of your faction, the bigger the boost.

CWE and Aeldari were left mostly untouched, Chaos received some good stuff but nothing game breaking.

Nids received huge buffs, probably enough to propel them to SM level or just under that.
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




Spoletta wrote:
The PA books are showing a pattern consistent with initial rumors.

The bigger the competitive problems of your faction, the bigger the boost.

CWE and Aeldari were left mostly untouched, Chaos received some good stuff but nothing game breaking.

Nids received huge buffs, probably enough to propel them to SM level or just under that.


Are you drunk?

Chaos was far and away the most OP faction pre-Space Marines, sweeping everything from Adepticon to Slaughterfest, and got the most updates. Aeldari was a stale mono-build that was ok in ITC thanks to planes being able to score secondaries, but hadn't won anything in vanilla 40K, as everything non-flyers was (and remains) basically garbage-tier. The Tyranid boost doesn't look impressive, though I haven't seen people build lists with it yet.
   
Made in fr
Elite Tyranid Warrior



France

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
The PA books are showing a pattern consistent with initial rumors.

The bigger the competitive problems of your faction, the bigger the boost.

CWE and Aeldari were left mostly untouched, Chaos received some good stuff but nothing game breaking.

Nids received huge buffs, probably enough to propel them to SM level or just under that.


Are you drunk?

Chaos was far and away the most OP faction pre-Space Marines, sweeping everything from Adepticon to Slaughterfest, and got the most updates. Aeldari was a stale mono-build that was ok in ITC thanks to planes being able to score secondaries, but hadn't won anything in vanilla 40K, as everything non-flyers was (and remains) basically garbage-tier. The Tyranid boost doesn't look impressive, though I haven't seen people build lists with it yet.

Apparently Aeldari have some huge buff in the CA.

And to go in your way, the faith and fury PA have some nasty (and imo OP) stratagem for chaos (alpha legion most notably).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/30 20:26:59


 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




WhiteDog wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
The PA books are showing a pattern consistent with initial rumors.

The bigger the competitive problems of your faction, the bigger the boost.

CWE and Aeldari were left mostly untouched, Chaos received some good stuff but nothing game breaking.

Nids received huge buffs, probably enough to propel them to SM level or just under that.


Are you drunk?

Chaos was far and away the most OP faction pre-Space Marines, sweeping everything from Adepticon to Slaughterfest, and got the most updates. Aeldari was a stale mono-build that was ok in ITC thanks to planes being able to score secondaries, but hadn't won anything in vanilla 40K, as everything non-flyers was (and remains) basically garbage-tier. The Tyranid boost doesn't look impressive, though I haven't seen people build lists with it yet.

Apparently Aeldari have some huge buff in the CA.

And to go in your way, the faith and fury PA have some nasty (and imo OP) stratagem for chaos (alpha legion most notably).


Which is what I said. Chaos was already the strongest army out there (ignoring Nu-Marines) AND got by far the strongest buff from PA thus far (with the possible exceptions of Blood Angels). Which is the opposite of what Spoletta said, who claimed PA buffs were somehow proportionate to how good/bad the army was previously.
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





chaos might have been strong but was codex chaos marines? I ask because I've heard this plenty but you don't exactly hear a lot of CSM fans happy with their state of codex.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/30 23:22:35


Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in fr
Elite Tyranid Warrior



France

BrianDavion wrote:
chaos might have been strong but was codex chaos marines? I ask because I've heard this plenty but you don't exactly hear a lot of CSM fans happy with their state of codex.

I play chaos and DA. CSM is not weak per say, what people (rightly) whine about is that a chaos space marine lists are not viable : what is actually winning in tourney is chaos soup, with plague as troops or cultist. The CSM codex suck ass in terms of diversity, fluff and coherence, but there are a few very good units/combo/list that you can build out of it.

Sunny Side Up wrote:
WhiteDog wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
The PA books are showing a pattern consistent with initial rumors.

The bigger the competitive problems of your faction, the bigger the boost.

CWE and Aeldari were left mostly untouched, Chaos received some good stuff but nothing game breaking.

Nids received huge buffs, probably enough to propel them to SM level or just under that.


Are you drunk?

Chaos was far and away the most OP faction pre-Space Marines, sweeping everything from Adepticon to Slaughterfest, and got the most updates. Aeldari was a stale mono-build that was ok in ITC thanks to planes being able to score secondaries, but hadn't won anything in vanilla 40K, as everything non-flyers was (and remains) basically garbage-tier. The Tyranid boost doesn't look impressive, though I haven't seen people build lists with it yet.

Apparently Aeldari have some huge buff in the CA.

And to go in your way, the faith and fury PA have some nasty (and imo OP) stratagem for chaos (alpha legion most notably).


Which is what I said. Chaos was already the strongest army out there (ignoring Nu-Marines) AND got by far the strongest buff from PA thus far (with the possible exceptions of Blood Angels). Which is the opposite of what Spoletta said, who claimed PA buffs were somehow proportionate to how good/bad the army was previously.

I was agreeing with you

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/11/30 23:46:24


 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Sanctus Slipping in His Blade





Spoletta wrote:
Nids received huge buffs, probably enough to propel them to SM level or just under that.


You're out of touch. I don't see anything that would do that. I see situational buffs to weak units in strategem form, psychic powers that are mostly okay, relics that are better than the ones we get base, and a nu-warlord table for general unit use. Which it's better than I thought it'd be, but no where near making Tyranids upper competitive.

As for the traits we will have to see what people build out of these. A few look interesting, and there are a decent amount of them.
Will have to get the book to really go through it.

PourSpelur wrote:
It's fully within the rules for me to look up your Facebook page, find out your dear Mother Gladys is single, take her on a lovely date, and tell you all the details of our hot, sweaty, animal sex during your psychic phase.
I mean, fifty bucks is on the line.
There's no rule that says I can't.
Hive Fleet Hercual - 6760pts
Hazaak Dynasty - 3400 pts
Seraphon - 4600pts
 
   
Made in ro
Deranged Necron Destroyer




Spoletta wrote:
The PA books are showing a pattern consistent with initial rumors.

The bigger the competitive problems of your faction, the bigger the boost.

CWE and Aeldari were left mostly untouched, Chaos received some good stuff but nothing game breaking.

Nids received huge buffs, probably enough to propel them to SM level or just under that.


By this logic, by the time they get around to giving Necrons a psychic awakening book, it better give us an actual Gauss rifle to disintegrate our opponent with. None of those names suggest necrons to me, so we're waiting until April at the earliest. Back into stasis they go.
   
Made in gb
Lethal Lhamean




Birmingham

Spoletta wrote:
The PA books are showing a pattern consistent with initial rumors.

The bigger the competitive problems of your faction, the bigger the boost.

CWE and Aeldari were left mostly untouched, Chaos received some good stuff but nothing game breaking.

Nids received huge buffs, probably enough to propel them to SM level or just under that.

Are you nuts, Nids received slim pickings at best.
   
Made in sa
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Imateria wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
The PA books are showing a pattern consistent with initial rumors.

The bigger the competitive problems of your faction, the bigger the boost.

CWE and Aeldari were left mostly untouched, Chaos received some good stuff but nothing game breaking.

Nids received huge buffs, probably enough to propel them to SM level or just under that.

Are you nuts, Nids received slim pickings at best.


I guess that time will tell, but i'm seeing a lot of really broken stuff.

You just have to forget everything you knew about tyranids. Goodbye stealers, we don't need you any more.

This PA3 is giving me just so many new ideas...

Edit: Ok, exact wording of fleet adaptations is out. They were not as good as spoiled initially. Still, there is a lot of stuff i have to digest it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/01 02:45:59


 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Sanctus Slipping in His Blade





Spoletta wrote:
 Imateria wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
The PA books are showing a pattern consistent with initial rumors.

The bigger the competitive problems of your faction, the bigger the boost.

CWE and Aeldari were left mostly untouched, Chaos received some good stuff but nothing game breaking.

Nids received huge buffs, probably enough to propel them to SM level or just under that.

Are you nuts, Nids received slim pickings at best.


I guess that time will tell, but i'm seeing a lot of really broken stuff.

You just have to forget everything you knew about tyranids. Goodbye stealers, we don't need you any more.

This PA3 is giving me just so many new ideas...

Edit: Ok, exact wording of fleet adaptations is out. They were not as good as spoiled initially. Still, there is a lot of stuff i have to digest it.


Nothing here stops us from wanting Kraken stealers in a detachemnt of their own. They're still extremely good, and if anything, now have access to a Broodlord who can take a decent relic.

PourSpelur wrote:
It's fully within the rules for me to look up your Facebook page, find out your dear Mother Gladys is single, take her on a lovely date, and tell you all the details of our hot, sweaty, animal sex during your psychic phase.
I mean, fifty bucks is on the line.
There's no rule that says I can't.
Hive Fleet Hercual - 6760pts
Hazaak Dynasty - 3400 pts
Seraphon - 4600pts
 
   
Made in us
Swift Swooping Hawk





Spoletta wrote:
 Imateria wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
The PA books are showing a pattern consistent with initial rumors.

The bigger the competitive problems of your faction, the bigger the boost.

CWE and Aeldari were left mostly untouched, Chaos received some good stuff but nothing game breaking.

Nids received huge buffs, probably enough to propel them to SM level or just under that.

Are you nuts, Nids received slim pickings at best.


I guess that time will tell, but i'm seeing a lot of really broken stuff.

You just have to forget everything you knew about tyranids. Goodbye stealers, we don't need you any more.

This PA3 is giving me just so many new ideas...

Edit: Ok, exact wording of fleet adaptations is out. They were not as good as spoiled initially. Still, there is a lot of stuff i have to digest it.


Lmao, broken as in non-functional, right? Like, "here, have a 6+++. But only on monsters, and only one the long range ones!". Or "okay, I know we give Nids weaker stuff that could be possibly abused by hordes. So let's take the Expert Crafters trait like Eldar have, make it only re-roll hits, and only within 6'' of synapse. Because hordes could abuse that, right? What's that, it's anti-synergistic with hordes? Oh well, let's nerf it anyways!"

Please refute me Spoletta, I would love to be wrong, but I think you are living in fantasy land.
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority





Tyranids are my least favorite 40k army. And I feel bad about that, because while they don't interest me enough to ever go look into them (I've never even examined their sprues)... I'm aware enough that I know they get hosed by GW.

Mob Rule is not a rule. 
   
Made in sa
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Gene St. Ealer wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
 Imateria wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
The PA books are showing a pattern consistent with initial rumors.

The bigger the competitive problems of your faction, the bigger the boost.

CWE and Aeldari were left mostly untouched, Chaos received some good stuff but nothing game breaking.

Nids received huge buffs, probably enough to propel them to SM level or just under that.

Are you nuts, Nids received slim pickings at best.


I guess that time will tell, but i'm seeing a lot of really broken stuff.

You just have to forget everything you knew about tyranids. Goodbye stealers, we don't need you any more.

This PA3 is giving me just so many new ideas...

Edit: Ok, exact wording of fleet adaptations is out. They were not as good as spoiled initially. Still, there is a lot of stuff i have to digest it.


Lmao, broken as in non-functional, right? Like, "here, have a 6+++. But only on monsters, and only one the long range ones!". Or "okay, I know we give Nids weaker stuff that could be possibly abused by hordes. So let's take the Expert Crafters trait like Eldar have, make it only re-roll hits, and only within 6'' of synapse. Because hordes could abuse that, right? What's that, it's anti-synergistic with hordes? Oh well, let's nerf it anyways!"

Please refute me Spoletta, I would love to be wrong, but I think you are living in fantasy land.


Lol, not going to. Those 2 traits are terrible
   
Made in us
Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc






Battle Barge Impossible Fortress

deTox91 wrote:
 Brometheus wrote:
deTox91 wrote:
Please please please PA book 4 don't be just a DA/GK codex with 3 stratagems and 3 relics for Thousand Sons, after the nerfs just received with CA we need something...


Honest question: Are you new to TS?


New-ish, why?


I am asking because the only nerf I saw with TS in CA2019 was to the demon princes which are only abused in nurgle/other csm funky competitive lists. Tzaangors still do what they do at 8pts, no change there.
   
Made in us
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine





Puget sound region, WA

For me Psychic Awakening = GET OFF THE DAMNED THRONE ALREADY!!

 
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





PA2 and the new sisters codex makes mention of psykic events popping up, things like miracles getting more common etc

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in gb
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan






 Gene St. Ealer wrote:


Lmao, broken as in non-functional, right? Like, "here, have a 6+++. But only on monsters, and only one the long range ones!". Or "okay, I know we give Nids weaker stuff that could be possibly abused by hordes. So let's take the Expert Crafters trait like Eldar have, make it only re-roll hits, and only within 6'' of synapse. Because hordes could abuse that, right? What's that, it's anti-synergistic with hordes? Oh well, let's nerf it anyways!"

Please refute me Spoletta, I would love to be wrong, but I think you are living in fantasy land.


Well yes if you cherry-pick the worst examples of something it's always going to look bad.

Tyranids also got:

  • Multiple ways to make charging reliable, even from deep strike

  • Stacking abilities to improve AP of melee infantry

  • Many units can be more resilient, particularly Monsters.

  • Big improvements in monster damage output, to the point where ~140pt Trygons are a genuine threat to Knights


  • I'm not saying Tyranids are going to compete with Iron Hands any time soon, but this update does address a lot of long-standing concerns and I'm looking forward to seeing it work on the table.
       
    Made in gb
    Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta






    BrianDavion wrote:
     Mr Morden wrote:
    PA4 is going to to be the same as PA2 and PA3 - yet another Marine supplement in all but name - same as P5 but Wolves rather than Dark Angels

    So 50% Dark Angels "Not Codex", 25% generic Marines Boosts, 13% Lore about Some form of Marines and 13% split between Grey Knights and Thousand Sons and maybe 4& on anythig non marine related.


    Fun fact, I did a page count of PA2.

    Pages devoted to Space Marines (including both the masters of the chapter stuff and the black templars stuff) 22. Of these ten pages are things ALL Marine players can use.
    Pages devoted to CSM rules: 38(ok granted 6 or so of these are random name charts). Of these are 3 pages of stuff ALL CSM players can use.

    So, PA2 actually devotes MORE Space to CSMs. the problem is that most of the space is devoted to stuff that is legion specific and stuff marines already have so it FEELS like less. I mean, if you're playing Iron Warriors you don't really get anything from the Alpha Legion rules, and someone who plays Black Legion (like me) got mearly 5 new relics out of the book. so despite more pages of CSM stuff, it feels like less value.


    No Brian - it is less.

    PA 2 pages for all Marines - 10.
    PA 2 pages for Black Templar's only - 12 (presumably, if your numbers are correct).

    PA 2 pages for all CSM - 3. Much less than 10.
    PA 2 pages for Night Lords (equivalent to Black Templars) only - much less than 12.
    PA 2 pages for Alpha Legion only - much less than 12.
    PA 2 pages for World Eaters only - much less than 12.
    PA 2 pages for Emperors Children only - much less than 12.
    PA 2 pages for Iron Warriors only - much less than 12.
    PA 2 pages for Word Bearers only - much less than 12.

    Equality here would be if each Legion had a supplement level release, just as Marines are getting, in the PA books (if they don't already have them, of course). Obviously this hasn't happened. There are even a significant number more global rules for Marines than CSM. It's insane.
       
    Made in ca
    Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





     An Actual Englishman wrote:
    BrianDavion wrote:
     Mr Morden wrote:
    PA4 is going to to be the same as PA2 and PA3 - yet another Marine supplement in all but name - same as P5 but Wolves rather than Dark Angels

    So 50% Dark Angels "Not Codex", 25% generic Marines Boosts, 13% Lore about Some form of Marines and 13% split between Grey Knights and Thousand Sons and maybe 4& on anythig non marine related.


    Fun fact, I did a page count of PA2.

    Pages devoted to Space Marines (including both the masters of the chapter stuff and the black templars stuff) 22. Of these ten pages are things ALL Marine players can use.
    Pages devoted to CSM rules: 38(ok granted 6 or so of these are random name charts). Of these are 3 pages of stuff ALL CSM players can use.

    So, PA2 actually devotes MORE Space to CSMs. the problem is that most of the space is devoted to stuff that is legion specific and stuff marines already have so it FEELS like less. I mean, if you're playing Iron Warriors you don't really get anything from the Alpha Legion rules, and someone who plays Black Legion (like me) got mearly 5 new relics out of the book. so despite more pages of CSM stuff, it feels like less value.


    No Brian - it is less.

    PA 2 pages for all Marines - 10.
    PA 2 pages for Black Templar's only - 12 (presumably, if your numbers are correct).

    PA 2 pages for all CSM - 3. Much less than 10.
    PA 2 pages for Night Lords (equivalent to Black Templars) only - much less than 12.
    PA 2 pages for Alpha Legion only - much less than 12.
    PA 2 pages for World Eaters only - much less than 12.
    PA 2 pages for Emperors Children only - much less than 12.
    PA 2 pages for Iron Warriors only - much less than 12.
    PA 2 pages for Word Bearers only - much less than 12.

    Equality here would be if each Legion had a supplement level release, just as Marines are getting, in the PA books (if they don't already have them, of course). Obviously this hasn't happened. There are even a significant number more global rules for Marines than CSM. It's insane.



    Did I ever say they got equal billing? No I didn't. I've openly said that CSMs definatly feel like they got less due to the legion exclusivity of the bulk of their stuff. and noted that despite this, by pure page count, they technicly got more. but hey, you gotta pick a fight now doncha?

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/01 10:55:35


     
       
    Made in gb
    Power-Hungry Cultist of Tzeentch




     Brometheus wrote:
    deTox91 wrote:
     Brometheus wrote:
    deTox91 wrote:
    Please please please PA book 4 don't be just a DA/GK codex with 3 stratagems and 3 relics for Thousand Sons, after the nerfs just received with CA we need something...


    Honest question: Are you new to TS?


    New-ish, why?


    I am asking because the only nerf I saw with TS in CA2019 was to the demon princes which are only abused in nurgle/other csm funky competitive lists. Tzaangors still do what they do at 8pts, no change there.

    And these two things are not enough of a nerf? Yeah they still do the job at 8 points but that still gives me less points to work with, 2 princes (that I believe we still need) and 30 tzaangors is already +60 points to the list, even counting the the drop on rubrics (8pts per 5 man) this is hard to offset! In a world where the average army now has 100-150 points more in their list.
    The problem as I see is the TS army trait, it’s too good at filling a void in soup armies and give them access to great psychic support, while it doesn’t do that much I n a pure sons army as unless you play only HQs half or more of your models don’t have a chapter tactic at all.
    If for example you had to have the Tzeentch keyword in your whole army to use it, no nerf would be needed.
    I hate soup.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/01 11:15:57


     
       
    Made in gb
    Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta






    BrianDavion wrote:

    Did I ever say they got equal billing? No I didn't. I've openly said that CSMs definatly feel like they got less due to the legion exclusivity of the bulk of their stuff. and noted that despite this, by pure page count, they technicly got more. but hey, you gotta pick a fight now doncha?

    The problem is when you make a statement like 'CSM have more pages in PA 2 than SM' or 'they FEEL like they got less because "muh Legion exclusivity" it implies, pretty obviously, that you're trying to justify the massive disparity between what each factions get.

    Yes CSM got more PA 2 pages dedicated to them. This is not a relevant metric for anything though because unfortunately SM got another 7 books (codex + supplements) as well as a ton of this supplement dedicated to them. Which is obviously, vastly more overall content.

    As to picking a fight - not really. I just want to hear you admit that SM have had way, way, WAY more than anyone else for the last 6 months or so (and hence why you can see that players of other factions might be irritated).

    E - like when I have my Klan specific books and codex 2.0 I will gladly admit that we now have parity in terms of book releases. Unfortunately this seems unlikely to ever happen.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/01 11:32:19


     
       
    Made in gb
    Mighty Vampire Count






    UK

    BrianDavion wrote:
     An Actual Englishman wrote:
    BrianDavion wrote:
     Mr Morden wrote:
    PA4 is going to to be the same as PA2 and PA3 - yet another Marine supplement in all but name - same as P5 but Wolves rather than Dark Angels

    So 50% Dark Angels "Not Codex", 25% generic Marines Boosts, 13% Lore about Some form of Marines and 13% split between Grey Knights and Thousand Sons and maybe 4& on anythig non marine related.


    Fun fact, I did a page count of PA2.

    Pages devoted to Space Marines (including both the masters of the chapter stuff and the black templars stuff) 22. Of these ten pages are things ALL Marine players can use.
    Pages devoted to CSM rules: 38(ok granted 6 or so of these are random name charts). Of these are 3 pages of stuff ALL CSM players can use.

    So, PA2 actually devotes MORE Space to CSMs. the problem is that most of the space is devoted to stuff that is legion specific and stuff marines already have so it FEELS like less. I mean, if you're playing Iron Warriors you don't really get anything from the Alpha Legion rules, and someone who plays Black Legion (like me) got mearly 5 new relics out of the book. so despite more pages of CSM stuff, it feels like less value.


    No Brian - it is less.

    PA 2 pages for all Marines - 10.
    PA 2 pages for Black Templar's only - 12 (presumably, if your numbers are correct).

    PA 2 pages for all CSM - 3. Much less than 10.
    PA 2 pages for Night Lords (equivalent to Black Templars) only - much less than 12.
    PA 2 pages for Alpha Legion only - much less than 12.
    PA 2 pages for World Eaters only - much less than 12.
    PA 2 pages for Emperors Children only - much less than 12.
    PA 2 pages for Iron Warriors only - much less than 12.
    PA 2 pages for Word Bearers only - much less than 12.

    Equality here would be if each Legion had a supplement level release, just as Marines are getting, in the PA books (if they don't already have them, of course). Obviously this hasn't happened. There are even a significant number more global rules for Marines than CSM. It's insane.


    Did I ever say they got equal billing? No I didn't. I've openly said that CSMs definatly feel like they got less due to the legion exclusivity of the bulk of their stuff. and noted that despite this, by pure page count, they technicly got more. but hey, you gotta pick a fight now doncha?



    Clarity - they do not FEEL like they got less - each sub faction of Chaos Space Marines ACTUALLY GOT less than each sub faction Marines - correct?

    ALL Marines had just had a massive bost with Codex, and then they just had to cram in yet more boosts and rules into PA 2 because....
       
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    After watching the GMG review of Blood of Baal its practically a second blood angels supplement with a few pages of Tyranid stuff at the back. If you are only interested in the tyranid stuff...its quite expensive for what could have been a WD article.

    Mephiston does look rather swanky, but a new plastic Lictor/deathleaper or even The Red Terror would have been an ideal release for this episode of Psychic Awakening.

    Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

     
       
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     Mr Morden wrote:


    ALL Marines had just had a massive bost with Codex, and then they just had to cram in yet more boosts and rules into PA 2 because....


    ...REA$ON$.
       
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     Mr Morden wrote:


    ALL Marines had just had a massive bost with Codex, and then they just had to cram in yet more boosts and rules into PA 2 because....


    Money.

    The problem is that it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Loyalist Marines get an overwhelming majority of releases on a constant tap. Inevitably, more people play Space Marines for this reason. If other factions received this level of support, we'd likely see them narrow the popularity gap a good deal more. Look at Fantasy , ways back when, and how there wasn't too much disparity between numbers. AoS comes out and Sigmarines serve as the posterboys for years and end up being the majority of lineups, however as GW pulled back from that and actually devoted sizable releases to other armies without making every other release a Sigmarine (barring one off Not-Lieutenants) there's been a good deal more diversity compared to 40k when 50% of battles are Marine vs Marine.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/01 14:28:30


     
       
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    SamusDrake wrote:
    After watching the GMG review of Blood of Baal its practically a second blood angels supplement with a few pages of Tyranid stuff at the back. If you are only interested in the tyranid stuff...its quite expensive for what could have been a WD article.

    Mephiston does look rather swanky, but a new plastic Lictor/deathleaper or even The Red Terror would have been an ideal release for this episode of Psychic Awakening.


    This.

    It's an absolute disgrace, really.

    Pages dedicated to Blood Angels - 40.

    Pages dedicated to Tyranids - 9.

    GW are flipping the finger to Xenos players, at this point.
       
     
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