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zamerion wrote:
At this point, we can discard new miniatures for cult or star, right?

Seeing book5 model has been known for a while(shadowsun)...yes.


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Voss wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

I just find it odd you think a faction will get less from PA because it "feels" like a smaller faction.

Then you misunderstand. I'm not talking about 'feelings' or 'definitions of smaller'
Its simply easier to do supplementary material (relics, strats etc, the 'content' PA is consistently churning out) for a tiny faction like knights than it is for guard. It factually takes up less space. Thats all that means.

So I'm talking about the simple fact that knights ARE a small faction, and in the relevant PA book they are NOT getting new models. The pointless, endless debates on what various factions 'should get' or 'deserve' or whatever are completely pointless. All that matters is whats coming out with the book and we've known ahead of time what that is, in every single case.

What people have made up for felt like various factions should get for the last book, the current book, or the next book have just been wasted text, because we were told 'a character model' months ago. And lo, that's all that's come, barring bonus wargear in the form of a banner waver for Ghaz. For Engines of Destruction, we are getting Ad Mech units, and NOT getting knights, daemons or anything else.

Seeing guard isn't getting copo&paste datasheets they will get pretty much same page count as knights. Less as there's 2 knights.

Donno, without copy paste marine pages, the page count for this book can be wildly different.

Daemons don't really need new models at this point.
They need better rules!

Space marines have rules, upon buffs, upon rules, upon buffs.

Give Deamons some of that over powered love GW!

78 pts. for a changecaster, 99 pts. with M12 and FLY, is ridiculous. I can only hope that this points change was to account for rules changes in engine war.

 p5freak wrote:
78 pts. for a changecaster, 99 pts. with M12 and FLY, is ridiculous. I can only hope that this points change was to account for rules changes in engine war.

When I'm paying 90pts for a Neurothrope with M5" and FLY, I can't tell if you think that other unit is ridiculous good or ridiculous bad.

OrkPlayer137 wrote:
It's curious that the new artwork has Vostroyans, which aren't in production any more. I thought that GW 40k artwork generally only had in-production models these days. Probably too much to hope for plastic Vostroyans though!

I saw that too and it made my heart skip a beat.. but then someone on Facebook said it was old artwork so...

 xttz wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
78 pts. for a changecaster, 99 pts. with M12 and FLY, is ridiculous. I can only hope that this points change was to account for rules changes in engine war.

When I'm paying 90pts for a Neurothrope with M5" and FLY, I can't tell if you think that other unit is ridiculous good or ridiculous bad.

yeah but your neurothrope does more than cast spells and buff strenght. Giving an AoE -1 to hit, reroll 1's on psychic tests, synapse is pretty decent, especially since you can actually cast more than 1 spell and have a better defensive profile (3++ instead of 4++).

I still dont understand why GW upped the price on the tzeentch herald

-1 to Hit AoE on a Neurothrope? Sure you aren't combining the Neurothrope and the Malanthrope there?

The latter costs 120 points BTW, and he ain't no psyker...

Sub-100 points for a quick fly-caster is pretty great actually.

Add to that the ridiculous Daemon Loci that also cross to CSM with the right keywords and the fact that Chaos Spells still aren't Codex-locked like Eldar and can affect pretty much anything in the greater Chaos Soup, I think the Tzeentch Herald should probably be 20-40 points more, if anything.

I'm not a competitive player (much) but I was auto including Change Casters into all my lists, losing Locus in the process but viewing Gaze of Fate as much more valuable (especially when using Chaos Knights).

Change casters were in every ITC netlist, which (unfortunately) plays a huge role in deciding points changes/nerfs for their next CA.

Anyway, SUPER pumped for the next book. Buffs for my Knights??

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
-1 to Hit AoE on a Neurothrope? Sure you aren't combining the Neurothrope and the Malanthrope there?

The latter costs 120 points BTW, and he ain't no psyker...

Oh youre right, i got confused with all the brain dudes. He only gives -1 to psykers, i shouldve read the whole entry.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
-1 to Hit AoE on a Neurothrope? Sure you aren't combining the Neurothrope and the Malanthrope there?

The latter costs 120 points BTW, and he ain't no psyker...

Oh youre right, i got confused with all the brain dudes. He only gives -1 to psykers, i shouldve read the whole entry.

To be fair, that's all Tyranid synapse beasts. It's the Shadow in the Warp rule. They could honestly change a lot of the names from ---thrope.

With the Kronos Hivefleet that Neurothrope can dole out the mortal wounds with the Warlord trait forcing failed psychic tests to inflict 1D3 mortal wounds, and the Strategem that forces players to test on only 1D6.

 xttz wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
78 pts. for a changecaster, 99 pts. with M12 and FLY, is ridiculous. I can only hope that this points change was to account for rules changes in engine war.

When I'm paying 90pts for a Neurothrope with M5" and FLY, I can't tell if you think that other unit is ridiculous good or ridiculous bad.

You want to compare a neurothrope against a changecaster ?

Enemy psykers within 18" must subtract 1 from their psychic tests. Changecaster has no such ability.
Friendly models within 12" auto pass morale tests. Changecaster has no such ability.
When an enemy model is slain by smite you can heal a wound on a friendly zoanthrope. Changecaster has no such (similar) ability.
Can reroll 1s for psychic tests. Changecaster has no such ability.
5+ sv, 3+ inv. Changecaster has 6+ sv, 4+ inv.
Can cast 2 psychic powers. Changecaster can cast 1 psychic power.
M5". Changecaster has M6".
S4 T4 W5. Changecaster has S3 T3 W4.
1 melee attack. Changecaster has 2.
Changecaster adds 1 to the strength of tzeentch daemons, wooow.

Your neurothrope outperforms the changecaster in almost every way.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Deathwatch showed up in Saga of the Beast to help the Space Corgis take down the Orks, but then again we've received no official information on that book beyond the title so far.

Also, wasn't the "one model per book" thing referring to the announcement of Ritual of the Damned, The Greater Good, and Saga of the Beast? It's possible that it was JUST those books with the one model treatment, although I'll admit that I was optimistic that there might be more included due to the open-endedness of the original wording so perhaps I'm just jumping to conclusions by thinking it was only those books. After all, both Faith and Fury and Blood of Baal only had a single model release too.

Still, we know that Engine War is seeing a plethora of releases, and Blood of the Phoenix did get a few new kits even if they were poorly handled and shackled to an overpriced box set.

At the very least, we definitely know that The Greater Good and Saga of the Beast will only have a single model accompanying them, in this case Shadowsun and proooooooobably Ghazkull (plus Makari). We know what factions are gonna be in GG and Engine War, and that Engine War will have a lot of models. As for what happens after Engine War, well, we don't have any information on that yet, other than that everyone will get rules eventually.

Benionin wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if the Deathwatch showed up in Saga of the Beast to help the Space Corgis take down the Orks, but then again we've received no official information on that book beyond the title so far.

Also, wasn't the "one model per book" thing referring to the announcement of Ritual of the Damned, The Greater Good, and Saga of the Beast? It's possible that it was JUST those books with the one model treatment, although I'll admit that I was optimistic that there might be more included due to the open-endedness of the original wording so perhaps I'm just jumping to conclusions by thinking it was only those books. After all, both Faith and Fury and Blood of Baal only had a single model release too.

Still, we know that Engine War is seeing a plethora of releases, and Blood of the Phoenix did get a few new kits even if they were poorly handled and shackled to an overpriced box set.

At the very least, we definitely know that The Greater Good and Saga of the Beast will only have a single model accompanying them, in this case Shadowsun and proooooooobably Ghazkull (plus Makari). We know what factions are gonna be in GG and Engine War, and that Engine War will have a lot of models. As for what happens after Engine War, well, we don't have any information on that yet, other than that everyone will get rules eventually.

You think Saga of the Beast Won't have a primaris space wolf???? The absolutely ONLY reason you will be right is if the new space wolf codex is following very shortly after.

DW would be a good thematic fit for Saga of the Beast, considering the DW was originally formed during the War of the Beast following the Heresy.


Would be lucky for me, as that would make every army in that book one that I or my son plays.

Benionin wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if the Deathwatch showed up in Saga of the Beast to help the Space Corgis take down the Orks, but then again we've received no official information on that book beyond the title so far.

There's an aside in I believe FnF that has an entire Watch Fortress (and at least a full Watch Company) mobilizing to combat an Ork incursion. Given the pairings that are left, it fits.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

You think Saga of the Beast Won't have a primaris space wolf???? The absolutely ONLY reason you will be right is if the new space wolf codex is following very shortly after.

Considering that the Ghaz model got revealed at the LVO... yes. I think Saga of the Beast will have him, rather than a Space Wolf of any stripe.

Benionin wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

You think Saga of the Beast Won't have a primaris space wolf???? The absolutely ONLY reason you will be right is if the new space wolf codex is following very shortly after.

Considering that the Ghaz model got revealed at the LVO... yes. I think Saga of the Beast will have him, rather than a Space Wolf of any stripe.

There's also precedent from BT not getting a Primaris model with Faith & Fury.

Benionin wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

You think Saga of the Beast Won't have a primaris space wolf???? The absolutely ONLY reason you will be right is if the new space wolf codex is following very shortly after.

Considering that the Ghaz model got revealed at the LVO... yes. I think Saga of the Beast will have him, rather than a Space Wolf of any stripe.

Evidently Ghaz is coming and will be a character released for it, I think he won't be the only model though.

It looks like there is possibly going to be two characters in greater good, with Shadowsun and potentially a guard catachan character according to the rumour engine. There were two characters in Phoenix arising as well, just because the other books have included one, doesn't meant the rest will only have one.

Has the Space Wolf Primaris Lieutenant had an individual release yet? If not, they could release him alongside Saga.

Sterling191 wrote:

Benionin wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if the Deathwatch showed up in Saga of the Beast to help the Space Corgis take down the Orks, but then again we've received no official information on that book beyond the title so far.

There's an aside in I believe FnF that has an entire Watch Fortress (and at least a full Watch Company) mobilizing to combat an Ork incursion. Given the pairings that are left, it fits.

Correct and agreed, this is a sensible guess. If the Ork codex is to believed, it doesn't end well for the DW, however. Ghazzy has already slaughtered a Death Watch Company (or whatever they're called) I believe.

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 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Benionin wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

You think Saga of the Beast Won't have a primaris space wolf???? The absolutely ONLY reason you will be right is if the new space wolf codex is following very shortly after.

Considering that the Ghaz model got revealed at the LVO... yes. I think Saga of the Beast will have him, rather than a Space Wolf of any stripe.

There's also precedent from BT not getting a Primaris model with Faith & Fury.

*Sad Trombone*

I'd be surprised if SW didn't get anything in Saga of the Beast, their fans are calling for Russ, let alone a re-done Ragnar. Thinking about it that is the only situation I see them getting nowt - if Russ will appear at the end of the campaign.

E - rumour has it Ragnar is coming with Saga. We'll have to see if it's true but I can imagine it. He's THE oldest model, no?

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
It looks like there is possibly going to be two characters in greater good, with Shadowsun and potentially a guard catachan character according to the rumour engine. There were two characters in Phoenix arising as well, just because the other books have included one, doesn't meant the rest will only have one.

You've just given me a thought - most of us believe(d) that rumour engine pic was either an Ork Kommando or a Catachan. Why did no one think it could be a GSC character? It could fit their aesthetic too by the looks!

A DW company is only a captain and 4 kill teams to be fair. It's not like losing a company of marines in a full chapter.


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I mentioned it could be GSC character myself and was shot down in flames for suggesting it....

Benionin wrote:


Still, we know that Engine War is seeing a plethora of releases, and Blood of the Phoenix did get a few new kits even if they were poorly handled and shackled to an overpriced box set.

At the very least, we definitely know that The Greater Good and Saga of the Beast will only have a single model accompanying them, in this case Shadowsun and proooooooobably Ghazkull (plus Makari). We know what factions are gonna be in GG and Engine War, and that Engine War will have a lot of models. As for what happens after Engine War, well, we don't have any information on that yet, other than that everyone will get rules eventually.

Sorry how do we know engine war will have any model releases have i missed something

darthryan wrote:


Sorry how do we know engine war will have any model releases have i missed something

Biggest reveal for 40k at LVO was a tonne of Mechanicus stuff. And they're supposed to be in Engine War.

So that makes sense for them to be in there as new Data sheets.

darthryan wrote:

Benionin wrote:


Still, we know that Engine War is seeing a plethora of releases, and Blood of the Phoenix did get a few new kits even if they were poorly handled and shackled to an overpriced box set.

At the very least, we definitely know that The Greater Good and Saga of the Beast will only have a single model accompanying them, in this case Shadowsun and proooooooobably Ghazkull (plus Makari). We know what factions are gonna be in GG and Engine War, and that Engine War will have a lot of models. As for what happens after Engine War, well, we don't have any information on that yet, other than that everyone will get rules eventually.

Sorry how do we know engine war will have any model releases have i missed something

New AM units is the solid assumption. It will be interesting if it does not get a character release attached. Additionally, there could be a Chaos Knight SC created for it...

 p5freak wrote:

You want to compare a neurothrope against a changecaster ?

No not really. I've never played with or against Tzeentch daemons so genuinely didn't know which point you were making. Nice wall of text though.

Benionin wrote:
Also, wasn't the "one model per book" thing referring to the announcement of Ritual of the Damned, The Greater Good, and Saga of the Beast? It's possible that it was JUST those books with the one model treatment, although I'll admit that I was optimistic that there might be more included due to the open-endedness of the original wording so perhaps I'm just jumping to conclusions by thinking it was only those books. After all, both Faith and Fury and Blood of Baal only had a single model release too.

Still, we know that Engine War is seeing a plethora of releases, and Blood of the Phoenix did get a few new kits even if they were poorly handled and shackled to an overpriced box set.

At the very least, we definitely know that The Greater Good and Saga of the Beast will only have a single model accompanying them, in this case Shadowsun and proooooooobably Ghazkull (plus Makari). We know what factions are gonna be in GG and Engine War, and that Engine War will have a lot of models. As for what happens after Engine War, well, we don't have any information on that yet, other than that everyone will get rules eventually.

"But there’s more – we can treat you to the release timeline and titles of the next three books in the series after Blood of Baal – coming in January, February, and March respectively! Each book will be accompanied by an epic champion to lead the charge in this terrible age."

That wording doesn't confirm PA6 will come with exactly one new model, only that it's a minimum of one character. There could even be another PA1-style boxed set with an old finecast unit re-done in plastic like Banshees.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
A DW company is only a captain and 4 kill teams to be fair. It's not like losing a company of marines in a full chapter.

I don't know my DW company from their battle brosquads. It seemed like a lot of DW, a ship full, maybe?

I mentioned it could be GSC character myself and was shot down in flames for suggesting it....

I think you may have been on to something.

They still need to release that Kellermorph.