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H.B.M.C. wrote: A couple of people brought this up on Facebook. GW's reply was "Well won't those competitive Bork'an players be shocked."
Feth them. They wrote a rule that is clearly a massive example of Codex Creep and their reply is basically "LOL @ competitive players!".
Is it 'lol at competitive players' or 'competitive players don't play Borkan anyway?' [dunno if that's true or not, but it doesn't really matter since a GW facebook drone isn't going to have a finger on the pulse of society anyway]
Though this doesn't actually hurt them in any meaningful way. It just makes their strat redundant.
It might matter if the game capped the number of stratagems you can use, preselecting before the game (and you had to take your subfaction strat), but since they're limited only by the number written (and a lot of them are hot trash anyway), its still just an upgrade for all Tau, including Borkan.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/03 22:49:58
H.B.M.C. wrote: A couple of people brought this up on Facebook. GW's reply was "Well won't those competitive Bork'an players be shocked."
Feth them. They wrote a rule that is clearly a massive example of Codex Creep and their reply is basically "LOL @ competitive players!".
It's definitely a middle finger to Bor'kan players, but at the same time it's nice to have a stratgem of that sort that will actually be useful whilst the Bor'kan one remains almost useless.
It's also worth remembering that it'll only really be useful on very select things, mainly a Riptide with Ion Accelerator (and only really if you have 2 as the Branched Nova Charge strat allowes you to get the flat 6 on the weapon whilst also going for the invuln boost or the movement boost), the Ghostkheels main weapons, Hammerheads Ion Cannon and the Sun Shark's Ion Rifles. It gets a lot more bonkers on FW models but even then those tend to be extremely expensive to start with (Tigershark with Ion and Skyspear Missiles, Y'Vhara and R'Varna, all get massive number of shots but are all over 400pts).
Isn't the Bor'kan strat objectively worse than a command reroll to begin with, since you need to declare it before rolling? Unless you plan to use a command reroll in the same phase of course.
I mean sure it's power creep, but it's creeping up from a pretty low starting point.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/03 23:23:00
Haaaaa… Excellent stuff. Youi sir deserve an exalt!
I really enjoyed the short story. Was quite well written, certainly one of the better ones.
However, I have a terrible feeling its GW way to build the narrative of "a great clenainsg" and make tau delete all of their allies, so that they can get rid of the kroot/vespids products and sadly we can forget any notion of auxiliaries or cool new xenos species... It would be more tacticool gundams Sales for the sales god..
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
I am usually reluctant to complain or comment on abilities without the full context of the codex, but this does look like power creep when compared to the Bor'kan Sept Strat.
AnonAmbientLight wrote: I am usually reluctant to complain or comment on abilities without the full context of the codex, but this does look like power creep when compared to the Bor'kan Sept Strat.
Honestly the Bor’kan sept Strat is mostly useless i wouldn’t count it as codex creep, there are some stratagems that just aren’t worth much (or anything like the valhalla one from the guard codex)
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
Yet no, as he staggered and stared around he could see more T’au firing upon shocked Gue’vesa as they emerged from cover. Nearby, he heard the crack of Kroot rifles and the alien mercenaries’ harsh shrieks as their former allies butchered them.
This is rather weirdly phrased, as it can mean either the Tau butchering the Kroot or the Kroot butchering the Gue'vesa.
Yeah, its not clear. I think the Tau are killing the kroot and the kroot are returning fire, but it could be that the kroot are also Order 66ing the Gue'Vesa and shrieking out war cries.
Still, good to see that the Tau are no longer goody two shoes and do consider their "allies" to be expendable if the Greater Good commands it.
Yeah, it's the kind of plot progression that best fits 40ktbh, the larger Tau Empire as a whole doesn't follow that mentality so it's not like there's a drastic change in their original approach, but it's showing that as the Tau expand further into the galaxy, their creed is being tested and challenged, thus evolving as result.
I don’t particularly like the story because the Tau purging them like that is not subtle. Maybe those are the traumatized Tau from the 4th Sphere expansion, but maybe not. We don’t have enough information.
I am not saying the Tau cannot have a dark side but it is just too ham handed them purging like Imperials. A more subtle way might be to just keep throwing the auxiliaries into combat until they are all gone. That way they go to their deaths, unknowing that they are really being expended. Then the Tau can look suitably solemn and sad, and milk it for PR. The most dangerous chains are the ones you don’t even notice are there.
I think thats the point - these Tau are not behaving like Tau....the reason could be that they have been altered by their experiences, the warp or a mixture of the two......or something else. Maybe they have not Etheral guding them either or he/she has gone insane.....which could also be interesting..
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Yet no, as he staggered and stared around he could see more T’au firing upon shocked Gue’vesa as they emerged from cover. Nearby, he heard the crack of Kroot rifles and the alien mercenaries’ harsh shrieks as their former allies butchered them.
This is rather weirdly phrased, as it can mean either the Tau butchering the Kroot or the Kroot butchering the Gue'vesa.
Yeah, its not clear. I think the Tau are killing the kroot and the kroot are returning fire, but it could be that the kroot are also Order 66ing the Gue'Vesa and shrieking out war cries.
Still, good to see that the Tau are no longer goody two shoes and do consider their "allies" to be expendable if the Greater Good commands it.
Yeah, it's the kind of plot progression that best fits 40ktbh, the larger Tau Empire as a whole doesn't follow that mentality so it's not like there's a drastic change in their original approach, but it's showing that as the Tau expand further into the galaxy, their creed is being tested and challenged, thus evolving as result.
I don’t particularly like the story because the Tau purging them like that is not subtle. Maybe those are the traumatized Tau from the 4th Sphere expansion, but maybe not. We don’t have enough information.
I am not saying the Tau cannot have a dark side but it is just too ham handed them purging like Imperials. A more subtle way might be to just keep throwing the auxiliaries into combat until they are all gone. That way they go to their deaths, unknowing that they are really being expended. Then the Tau can look suitably solemn and sad, and milk it for PR. The most dangerous chains are the ones you don’t even notice are there.
I think thats the point - these Tau are not behaving like Tau....the reason could be that they have been altered by their experiences, the warp or a mixture of the two......or something else. Maybe they have not Etheral guding them either or he/she has gone insane.....which could also be interesting..
Here comes lexicanum to rescue! I think it's kinda obvious what Shadowsun's story is going to be considering psychic awakening is dealing with past events. Also I read it as the 4th sphere T'au murdering the kroot, the sentence is badly worded.
Survivors of the Fourth Sphere continue to have a dark reputation. Its contingents display a brutality and xenophobia uncharacteristic of the Tau. Tau of the Fourth Sphere believe that the abomination that saved them within the Warp was formed from the auxiliaries psychic perceptions of the Greater Good, and can only be slain with their extermination.[4] During the Fifth Sphere, Human prisoners were massacred and Auxiliaries were intentionally sacrificed in battle by Fourth Sphere survivors. The Massacre of the Dul'un Lakes and the Eight Days of Infamy are the most famous episodes from this controversy. Eventually, Shadowsun and the Ethereal Council disciplined the Fourth Sphere commanders with a ritual punishment known as the Malk'la before they were returned to the ranks or sent back to the empire for re-assimilation. After a massacre and bloody Kroot uprising upon the colony of Ky'san, all auxiliaries were removed from contingents of Fourth Sphere Tau.[1]
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
xttz wrote: Isn't the Bor'kan strat objectively worse than a command reroll to begin with, since you need to declare it before rolling? Unless you plan to use a command reroll in the same phase of course.
I mean sure it's power creep, but it's creeping up from a pretty low starting point.
Isn't that the definition of balance? It's slightly worse than the command re-roll, but has more utility in being able to be combined with the command re-roll, it would strike me as being relatively balanced competition for the same cost of 1 CP.
If it's strictly better value than the 1 CP = 1 re-roll baseline as well as being open to be used alongside the command re-roll, it kinda becomes a no-brainer choice and thus by definition isn't balanced.
xttz wrote: Isn't the Bor'kan strat objectively worse than a command reroll to begin with, since you need to declare it before rolling? Unless you plan to use a command reroll in the same phase of course.
I mean sure it's power creep, but it's creeping up from a pretty low starting point.
which is what I think GW's comment was really about it wasn't "feth you compeitive players" it was "Come on guys, we know damn well people aren't using that stratt compeitively, the stratigium sucks"
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
xttz wrote: Isn't the Bor'kan strat objectively worse than a command reroll to begin with, since you need to declare it before rolling? Unless you plan to use a command reroll in the same phase of course.
I mean sure it's power creep, but it's creeping up from a pretty low starting point.
Isn't that the definition of balance? It's slightly worse than the command re-roll, but has more utility in being able to be combined with the command re-roll, it would strike me as being relatively balanced competition for the same cost of 1 CP.
If it's strictly better value than the 1 CP = 1 re-roll baseline as well as being open to be used alongside the command re-roll, it kinda becomes a no-brainer choice and thus by definition isn't balanced.
In this case no, because it is keyed to a specific sub-faction as one of its benefits. One has to give up getting one of the other sets of benefits in order to get it. But I do see what you're saying.
xttz wrote: Isn't the Bor'kan strat objectively worse than a command reroll to begin with, since you need to declare it before rolling? Unless you plan to use a command reroll in the same phase of course.
I mean sure it's power creep, but it's creeping up from a pretty low starting point.
Isn't that the definition of balance? It's slightly worse than the command re-roll, but has more utility in being able to be combined with the command re-roll, it would strike me as being relatively balanced competition for the same cost of 1 CP.
If it's strictly better value than the 1 CP = 1 re-roll baseline as well as being open to be used alongside the command re-roll, it kinda becomes a no-brainer choice and thus by definition isn't balanced.
No, that is not the definition of balance, all stratagems don’t have to have the same level of usefullness even less so if we are comparing one from a specific sept against one that everyone has. Also having to use it before rolling makes it pretty much a waste of cp. I would never use it.
Yet no, as he staggered and stared around he could see more T’au firing upon shocked Gue’vesa as they emerged from cover. Nearby, he heard the crack of Kroot rifles and the alien mercenaries’ harsh shrieks as their former allies butchered them.
This is rather weirdly phrased, as it can mean either the Tau butchering the Kroot or the Kroot butchering the Gue'vesa.
Yeah, its not clear. I think the Tau are killing the kroot and the kroot are returning fire, but it could be that the kroot are also Order 66ing the Gue'Vesa and shrieking out war cries.
Still, good to see that the Tau are no longer goody two shoes and do consider their "allies" to be expendable if the Greater Good commands it.
Yeah, it's the kind of plot progression that best fits 40ktbh, the larger Tau Empire as a whole doesn't follow that mentality so it's not like there's a drastic change in their original approach, but it's showing that as the Tau expand further into the galaxy, their creed is being tested and challenged, thus evolving as result.
I don’t particularly like the story because the Tau purging them like that is not subtle. Maybe those are the traumatized Tau from the 4th Sphere expansion, but maybe not. We don’t have enough information.
I am not saying the Tau cannot have a dark side but it is just too ham handed them purging like Imperials. A more subtle way might be to just keep throwing the auxiliaries into combat until they are all gone. That way they go to their deaths, unknowing that they are really being expended. Then the Tau can look suitably solemn and sad, and milk it for PR. The most dangerous chains are the ones you don’t even notice are there.
I think thats the point - these Tau are not behaving like Tau....the reason could be that they have been altered by their experiences, the warp or a mixture of the two......or something else. Maybe they have not Etheral guding them either or he/she has gone insane.....which could also be interesting..
I think this is developing unrest and dissension within the Tau, almost to the point of civil war, to justify Tau on Tau games and different styles of play. Could even be used to justify O’Shovah and O’Shaserra working together, putting down 4th sphere rebels. I actually think it’s quite a good narrative so far; suffering warp abominations for the first time is a good reason for the 4th sphere forces to be behaving differently and there’s a nice uncertainty there as to whether it’s just “seen too much” or a more insidious actual corruption.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/04 07:34:16
Zed wrote: *All statements reflect my opinion at this moment. if some sort of pretty new model gets released (or if I change my mind at random) I reserve the right to jump on any bandwagon at will.
H.B.M.C. wrote: A couple of people brought this up on Facebook. GW's reply was "Well won't those competitive Bork'an players be shocked."
Feth them. They wrote a rule that is clearly a massive example of Codex Creep and their reply is basically "LOL @ competitive players!".
Scuse me , may i ask, what the new strat is and what bor'kan does for those rather unfamiliar with Tau?
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
H.B.M.C. wrote: A couple of people brought this up on Facebook. GW's reply was "Well won't those competitive Bork'an players be shocked."
Feth them. They wrote a rule that is clearly a massive example of Codex Creep and their reply is basically "LOL @ competitive players!".
Scuse me , may i ask, what the new strat is and what bor'kan does for those rather unfamiliar with Tau?
Bor'kan: Use before rolling # of shots for random # of shot weapons, may reroll it. 1 CP. New one: You get maximum shots automatically, 1CP. So for one you get to reroll it if you don't like result(not even 2d6 pick highest which would better. IF your roll 3 do you reroll it? Average says you get more since you go toward 3.5 but in practice it has chance of giving you LESS shots...). And new one gives you flat out maximum. Same CP price. Not even sept locked
H.B.M.C. wrote: A couple of people brought this up on Facebook. GW's reply was "Well won't those competitive Bork'an players be shocked."
Feth them. They wrote a rule that is clearly a massive example of Codex Creep and their reply is basically "LOL @ competitive players!".
Scuse me , may i ask, what the new strat is and what bor'kan does for those rather unfamiliar with Tau?
Bor'kan: Use before rolling # of shots for random # of shot weapons, may reroll it. 1 CP. New one: You get maximum shots automatically, 1CP. So for one you get to reroll it if you don't like result(not even 2d6 pick highest which would better. IF your roll 3 do you reroll it? Average says you get more since you go toward 3.5 but in practice it has chance of giving you LESS shots...). And new one gives you flat out maximum. Same CP price. Not even sept locked
Well played , GW, well played, we get closer to 7th every PA book ....
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
H.B.M.C. wrote: A couple of people brought this up on Facebook. GW's reply was "Well won't those competitive Bork'an players be shocked."
Feth them. They wrote a rule that is clearly a massive example of Codex Creep and their reply is basically "LOL @ competitive players!".
Scuse me , may i ask, what the new strat is and what bor'kan does for those rather unfamiliar with Tau?
Bor'kan: Use before rolling # of shots for random # of shot weapons, may reroll it. 1 CP. New one: You get maximum shots automatically, 1CP. So for one you get to reroll it if you don't like result(not even 2d6 pick highest which would better. IF your roll 3 do you reroll it? Average says you get more since you go toward 3.5 but in practice it has chance of giving you LESS shots...). And new one gives you flat out maximum. Same CP price. Not even sept locked
Well played , GW, well played, we get closer to 7th every PA book ....
And when it reaches that point, they'll unveil 9th and everybody will praise them for it.
Why do you think i stopped playing 40k and switched to killteam..
Insanity. Is, doing the exact same fething thing over and over again. Expecting gak to change. That is crazy.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Does the Borkan one affect all weapons on that unit or just one? Same question for the new Strat.
Borkan affects a single die from a single weapon (i.e. one of the 3D6 on the Y’vahra flamer), though you could use it on an assault weapon and it can be used on titanic.
New Strat affects all dice on all heavy weapons, but not for Stormsurges or regular flamers, etc..
The borkan strat is not a thing to even be considered, it could have been erased from the game and effectively nothing would change, as nobody ever used it anyway even if they DID bother with borkan, giving the fact that let alone its a totally useless stratagem, very few tau guns actually have random shot count and are not super long range to begin with (and thus not getting any value from being borkan)
It Das dead on arrival. It was considered unplayable trash before the book even came out. It's a total dud and GW acknowledged it.
And in the far away day that the codex will actually get a v2, it will be replaced.
can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now.
It would be more tacticool gundams Sales for the sales god..
Eldar- 4436 pts
can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now.