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 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Ratius wrote:
Imma start collectin' Iron Hands. Woot!

Buyer beware. They're going to get nerfed one way or another.

Not while stock lasts.

I was being facetious

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Ratius wrote:
Imma start collectin' Iron Hands. Woot!

Buyer beware. They're going to get nerfed one way or another.

Not while stock lasts.

Sure.

Just collect a marine force with your own custom scheme.

You'll get all the best and powerful rules forever.

ItsPug wrote:

The Newman wrote:

beast_gts wrote:
The FAQ's are up - Iron Hands & Raven Guard.

I like that they bothered to answer whether Korvidari Bolts make a weapon count as a relic for the Marksman Honors warlord trait when the trait itself explicitly says that it works on relic weapons.

The trait specifically states applies to ranged weapons but it does not work on grenades or relics. But the argument is that the weapon itself is not a relic, just the ammunition.

Battlescribe must not be up to date:

Marksman's Honors The Damage characteristic of ranged weapons your warlord is armed with is increased by 1. In addition, you can re-roll failed to hi rolls and wound rolls for shooting attacks made by your warlord. This Warlord trait does not aply to Grenade weapons, but does apply to Chapter Relics.

FAQs are up. There's at least one Iron Hands nerf in them!

 Drachii wrote:
FAQs are up. There's at least one Iron Hands nerf in them!

There is precisely one Iron Hands nerf in them, and it is not enough.

your funny Although it is strange to see such a small update, considering the problems people seem to have, one would expect a 5 page giga FAQ .

Due to how relentlessly obnoxious I find the "BeCauSe Of ThE sAlEs" posts we should take a stroll down memory lane. Remember when the executioner went up in points? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

Don't tell me they raised the cost...It's already overcosted...LOL

They just "fixed" it with this FAQ. As-in fixed it so that their sales get hurt so bad by it that the next Chapter Approved will drop the points for both Repulsor tanks (fingers crossed)

Though ofc real business smarts would be to lower the things point cost on your new 100$ dollar tank. LOL.

Oh, stupid for another reason, then. It needed a points drop, not increase.

<sarcasm>Or maybe GW are the only ones that realize just how OP Marines are right now!</sarcasm>

I think this is actually the point where I stop playing 40k competitively in any sense and just find people to play by the rules I want to play (which are rules that don't suck complete ass). Sheer incompetent rules team. ... I mean it's so effing baffling it is disgusting. I actually want to slap a person in the face for this. I spent 200$ and a ton of time getting 2 of these ready to play with even knowing they were going to underperform...then they nerf it? WOW.

We need to as a community stop sucking so hard. We need to stop buying their stuff if we want them to listen to us.

I don't know a single player that doesn't care about the point costs of their models. Like literally no one I know is like - oh this model went up 30 points - I think I'll go buy it. New player old player? Don't matter. This nerf is a legit mistake that will only serve to cost them money and nerfs the weakest faction in the game short of GK. It's a joke. Someone needs to admit to their mistake and fix it. Now.

When people talk out both sides of their donkey-cave they just wind up looking stupid. That gak doesn't age well, guys.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Due to how relentlessly obnoxious I find the "BeCauSe Of ThE sAlEs" posts we should take a stroll down memory lane. Remember when the executioner went up in points?

B-but they only did that because they knew Iron Hands were coming out!

yeah, I kind of a have my doubts in GW ability to imagine how actual lists are going to look like.

But who knows, maybe they did know it. But this means they knew IH would be really good, and kept the rules on purpose like that. It would kind a suck, if this was done, so people spend a ton of money pre christmas on high cost tank kits, only to have nerfed in the spring FAQ.

Well, that Iron Hands FAQ is stupid. Ah well. Whatever.

Much like videogame QA, playtesters may have reported the issues, whether or not development and managers chose to act on it, or see it as an issue, is an altogether different question.

I don't think anyone playtesting could have missed these issues. They're blindingly obvious on the most passive initial reading.

However, if GW wants to move marine product, pushing overpowered rules will do so, and GW writers are on record as having been told to do just that (such as with Wraithknights in 7E) by management in the past, this is probably no different.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Much like videogame QA, playtesters may have reported the issues, whether or not development and managers chose to act on it, or see it as an issue, is an altogether different question.

I don't think anyone playtesting could have missed these issues. They're blindingly obvious on the most passive initial reading.

However, if GW wants to move marine product, pushing overpowered rules will do so, and GW writers are on record as having been told to do just that (such as with Wraithknights in 7E) by management in the past, this is probably no different.

One solution to this would be for TOs to ban them, that'd limit the amount of sales GW gets and hurt them where they deserve it. It's no different from the phone companies that install updates to deliberately drain batteries after a new product comes out to push that new product. As a consumer you have to say no, that might include not buying IH and choosing not to attend tournaments that allow IH. If you don't play against SM the game is still just the same as it was before which wasn't ideal but it wasn't too bad either, so don't accept games against SM using their supplements and don't go to tournaments until IH (and SM as a whole) are fixed, so at least until CA19. It's been my belief since the Codex came out that 40k was going to be out of wack until July next year and probably December 2020. If you're going out and buying all the supplements, buying new models for SM etc. etc. you are approving of their decisions to sink balance and rewarding them for their bad behaviour. Humans, businesses and dogs, all the same, reward behaviour and they'll continue doing it, punish it and reprimand and it'll happen less.

 vict0988 wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Much like videogame QA, playtesters may have reported the issues, whether or not development and managers chose to act on it, or see it as an issue, is an altogether different question.

I don't think anyone playtesting could have missed these issues. They're blindingly obvious on the most passive initial reading.

However, if GW wants to move marine product, pushing overpowered rules will do so, and GW writers are on record as having been told to do just that (such as with Wraithknights in 7E) by management in the past, this is probably no different.

One solution to this would be for TOs to ban them, that'd limit the amount of sales GW gets and hurt them where they deserve it. It's no different from the phone companies that install updates to deliberately drain batteries after a new product comes out to push that new product. As a consumer you have to say no, that might include not buying IH and choosing not to attend tournaments that allow IH. If you don't play against SM the game is still just the same as it was before which wasn't ideal but it wasn't too bad either, so don't accept games against SM using their supplements and don't go to tournaments until IH (and SM as a whole) are fixed, so at least until CA19. It's been my belief since the Codex came out that 40k was going to be out of wack until July next year and probably December 2020. If you're going out and buying all the supplements, buying new models for SM etc. etc. you are approving of their decisions to sink balance and rewarding them for their bad behaviour. Humans, businesses and dogs, all the same, reward behaviour and they'll continue doing it, punish it and reprimand and it'll happen less.

Yeah, tell the folks who just sank $whatever into their army they can’t use it at all, and see how well that goes over.

However, overall with how GW has been meticulously wrecking the precarious balance they started with initial 8E, I’m ready to put the whole company behind me. They’ve had 8.5 editions to sort this mess out, I’m over them

The Iron Hands FAQ has been updated.

 Stormonu wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Much like videogame QA, playtesters may have reported the issues, whether or not development and managers chose to act on it, or see it as an issue, is an altogether different question.

I don't think anyone playtesting could have missed these issues. They're blindingly obvious on the most passive initial reading.

However, if GW wants to move marine product, pushing overpowered rules will do so, and GW writers are on record as having been told to do just that (such as with Wraithknights in 7E) by management in the past, this is probably no different.

One solution to this would be for TOs to ban them, that'd limit the amount of sales GW gets and hurt them where they deserve it. It's no different from the phone companies that install updates to deliberately drain batteries after a new product comes out to push that new product. As a consumer you have to say no, that might include not buying IH and choosing not to attend tournaments that allow IH. If you don't play against SM the game is still just the same as it was before which wasn't ideal but it wasn't too bad either, so don't accept games against SM using their supplements and don't go to tournaments until IH (and SM as a whole) are fixed, so at least until CA19. It's been my belief since the Codex came out that 40k was going to be out of wack until July next year and probably December 2020. If you're going out and buying all the supplements, buying new models for SM etc. etc. you are approving of their decisions to sink balance and rewarding them for their bad behaviour. Humans, businesses and dogs, all the same, reward behaviour and they'll continue doing it, punish it and reprimand and it'll happen less.

Yeah, tell the folks who just sank $whatever into their army they can’t use it at all, and see how well that goes over.

However, overall with how GW has been meticulously wrecking the precarious balance they started with initial 8E, I’m ready to put the whole company behind me. They’ve had 8.5 editions to sort this mess out, I’m over them

Its kind of a bad scenario either way. Allow IH/SM into the tournament and the other factions might as well not show up. Ban IH/SM and you alienate the most popular faction which is probably where a significant chunk of the stores sales are from. Do you allow SM 2.0 and simply ban the supplements? What about Vigilus, do you ban all supplements that aren't a codex or index? It's a bad scenario either way. Fortunately, GW surprisingly has a semi-decent track record with addressing the biggest offenders in CA and if it requires an additional nerf after the fact to save the competitive scene they will do so. (Castellans ayy lmao)

Well, they fixed some issues with ih finally

Not Online!!! wrote:
Well, they fixed some issues with ih finally

An issue* Out of how many?

 vict0988 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Well, they fixed some issues with ih finally

An issue* Out of how many?

The Facebook link has the complete faq. A LOT changed.

 vaklor4 wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Well, they fixed some issues with ih finally

An issue* Out of how many?

The Facebook link has the complete faq. A LOT changed.

With these changes IH should be a lot more inline with the rest of the marines, some decently large nerfs.

Anyone got a run down on what changed?

 lolman1c wrote:
Anyone got a run down on what changed?

Iron Father Invuln only works on Infantry now, CP change on Souls of Iron and Optimal Repulsion, March of Ancients Once per Battle.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
Anyone got a run down on what changed?

Iron Father Invuln only works on Infantry now, CP increase on Souls of Iron and Optimal Repulsion, March of Ancients Once per Battle.

You forgot that now ironstone is 1 target within 3, cp increase to machine empathy and significant nerf to how much a single vehicle can be repaired.

No more double repair.
Psychic Vect is 2 CP
4+ overwatch is 2 CP
Psykers can't heal a healed vehicle
Ironstone is one model
IFF 5++ is Infantry only

TheAvengingKnee wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
Anyone got a run down on what changed?

Iron Father Invuln only works on Infantry now, CP increase on Souls of Iron and Optimal Repulsion, March of Ancients Once per Battle.

You forgot that now ironstone is 1 target within 6, cp increase to machine empathy and significant nerf to how much a single vehicle can be repaired.

Was just about to edit in Ironstone, went to check the original wording first as I couldn't remember if it was number of models affected or it being applied at start of round rather than when attacked that changed(it's both).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
No more double repair.
Psychic Vect is 2 CP
4+ overwatch is 2 CP
Psykers can't heal a healed vehicle
Ironstone is one model
IFF 5++ is Infantry only

Ironstone is one model chosen at the start of each Battle Round, which is an even bigger nerf than just being changed to one vehicle. You can basically just ignore the Ironstone'd vehicle as a target for that round in favor of everything else.

GUYS. HEY GUYS. GW DID THIS FOR THE MONEYEYYYYYYY!

Right, guys? Right?

...guys?

With ironstone and repair nerfs, I’m not really sure the invuln for vehicles really needed removed. This change effectively removes Feirros from tournament play consideration IMO.

Quasistellar wrote:
With ironstone and repair nerfs, I’m not really sure the invuln for vehicles really needed removed. This change effectively removes Feirros from tournament play consideration IMO.

He's only 110 points and is quite effective all around. He just won't be a deathball master.

Quasistellar wrote:
With ironstone and repair nerfs, I’m not really sure the invuln for vehicles really needed removed. This change effectively removes Feirros from tournament play consideration IMO.

This removes him from normal game consideration, he’s trash now, if they dropped him 20 points maybe he’d be worth it.