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2019/12/21 19:07:54
Subject: Re:Star Wars Rise of Skywalker - WARNING, SPOILERS.
Regarding Palpatine's and how that affect the chosen one prophecy:
Spoiler:
Anakin really did defeat the Sith, but Palps is a cheater basically. He very well may have known he was going to be defeated and therefore had a contingency plan.
I think if Hayden was cool enough to reprise his role for a voice over, he may have also been cool enough to make a physical appearance as a ghost.
If he, Luke, Obiwan played by Ewan McGregor and Yoda physically manifested behind Rey at the climax, this would have been more powerful (albeit just another fan service piece for haters to complain about).
Kinda like the scene in Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire just after Voldie returns
This IMO could have given more context to the chosen one prophecy. Maybe even turning Anakin into the "choosing" one as he selects Rey to be his successor to finally destroy all the Sith
-
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/21 19:12:17
Given that this film establishes that Force ghosts are able to directly interact with and manipulate physical reality (which I believe is a first), I don't really see any reason why force ghost anakin couldn't have just shown up and killed Palpatine directly. More interesting though, would have been if while Rey is blocking Sidious force lightning the ghosts of Jedi past show up and use some sort of ghostly force power to destroy Palpatine once and for all or something, would have avoided the confusion that many seem to have with how Rey killed Palpatine without being possessed by him like he claimed she would be if she had executed him (this is more a problem with the audience than the movie IMO, as I dont believe Rey actually attacks him or strikes him, rather its his own Sith lightning which is reflected back at him by Reys defense which proves to be his undoing).
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
2019/12/21 22:28:54
Subject: Re:Star Wars Rise of Skywalker - WARNING, SPOILERS.
One thing I did like about Rise of Skywalker is that at times it felt like "Star Wars: Symphony of the Night"...
Spoiler:
Rey is practically Alucard and even encounters an evil doppleganger(John Williams does Festival of Servants? OMG...). And Palpatine is all like "welcome grand daughter" before a final ruckus. And Ben! OMG! He even does a Richter Belmot "Bloodlines" at the beginning of the film, powerstriding to the temple on foot - except they don't have an OMG scene of supreme whupass and they just chat for a bit.
Rey also breaks Kylo taint of the darkside, bit like Alucard does with Richter and that annoying orb thingy.
I suppose Ben turns the tables like Maria does in the final bit and yet it would have been mindblowing if Rey had done a "Holy Cross" on Palpatine...but wait - she does! OMG! Crossed Lightsabers!
Lets face it, when there isn't a Skywalker to put things right, you need a Palpatine to sort out family affairs.
...and for that, Rise Of Skywalker is AWESOME.
Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.
2019/12/21 23:19:48
Subject: Re:Star Wars Rise of Skywalker - WARNING, SPOILERS.
They did have an answer to it - she was descended from nobody important. I don't understand the fanbases insistence that the characters relationships must be incestuous (not in the literal sense, but in the sense that outside characters not related to the established characters within the setting cannot be introduced), you may have not liked it, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't there.
What is strange is that you quoted me but then responded with an answer to something I didn't say at all; I mean it was right there you could have referenced it right above the typing. There was no "insistence" of anything nor was there any mention of "the fanbase", an overly broad and generic descriptor to be sure, and there certainly wasn't any inference of anything incestuous. You seem to be projecting a lot onto a simple statement that really only said that the filmmakers didn't give the impression of a long term plan.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2019/12/22 01:29:44
Subject: Star Wars Rise of Skywalker - WARNING, SPOILERS.
Well that wasn't nearly as bad as I was expecting.
I suppose that makes sense because:
1. Most of the critics that hated it loved TLJ. 2. Most of the reviews said that if you hated TLJ then you'd like ROS.
TLJ had me leaving the theatre angry. This had me leave feeling sad, and not sad that that was the end of the SW saga, but more sad that that was the end we got. Overall I didn't find it satisfying, as the series jettisoned it's original characters far too quickly and never gave me reason to care about Rey, Poe and Finn. As such the "conclusion" was centred around a bunch of people we hardly knew, leaving any kind of ressonance and emotion behind.
Rise of Skywalker (or The Rise of Skywalker, as the crawl says - get your titles right JJ!) isn't a good film, but it's not an awful film either. It doesn't hurt or kill Star Wars as a whole. It's not a film I despise like TLJ, nor is a film I find incredibly irritating for all the potential it squanders like ROTS. In the end it's a bit like Attack of the Clones - basically a long slog through the first two acts with a few fancy sequences that are fun, and then a big emotional payoff finale that's fun to look at but ultimately lacks half of the punch it thinks it has.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/22 01:31:05
They did have an answer to it - she was descended from nobody important. I don't understand the fanbases insistence that the characters relationships must be incestuous (not in the literal sense, but in the sense that outside characters not related to the established characters within the setting cannot be introduced), you may have not liked it, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't there.
What is strange is that you quoted me but then responded with an answer to something I didn't say at all; I mean it was right there you could have referenced it right above the typing. There was no "insistence" of anything nor was there any mention of "the fanbase", an overly broad and generic descriptor to be sure, and there certainly wasn't any inference of anything incestuous. You seem to be projecting a lot onto a simple statement that really only said that the filmmakers didn't give the impression of a long term plan.
Its not strange at all. You contend they needed a "last minute" answer to her identity. I have clarified that they provided that answer already and didnt need to retcon it. The rest of my statements are inferred - you are a part of the fanbase, and your belief that the question was "unanswered" implies you found Rey being descended from "nobody" to be unsatisfying. You also misunderstood what I meant by "incestuous", which is amazing because I literally clarified what I meant in the next sentence:
(not in the literal sense, but in the sense that outside characters not related to the established characters within the setting cannot be introduced)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/22 02:11:02
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
2019/12/22 02:31:54
Subject: Re:Star Wars Rise of Skywalker - WARNING, SPOILERS.
Watching the movies I always thought it was interesting that the "Chosen One from the prophecy" was discussed as someone who would bring balance to the force and that was interpreted as defeating the Sith.
If Sith are Yin and Jedi are Yang- Anakin brought balance to the force by killing powerful Jedi to ensure it was balanced for both the good and the evil.
2019/12/22 03:52:49
Subject: Star Wars Rise of Skywalker - WARNING, SPOILERS.
Jjohnso11 wrote: Watching the movies I always thought it was interesting that the "Chosen One from the prophecy" was discussed as someone who would bring balance to the force and that was interpreted as defeating the Sith.
If Sith are Yin and Jedi are Yang- Anakin brought balance to the force by killing powerful Jedi to ensure it was balanced for both the good and the evil.
Not how that works. The sith are the imbalance in the force, an invading force rather than the yin.
2019/12/22 03:53:53
Subject: Star Wars Rise of Skywalker - WARNING, SPOILERS.
Is it though? Star Wars source material under Disney has given so many divergent explanations for what "balance" means with respect to the force is basically means nothing.
Saw it today with my wife. We both thoroughly enjoyed it.
It had the same breathless pacing problem as TFA, but was good fun.
A little puzzled by all the comments I've seen about it retconning a lot of TLJ. While there were a couple of obviously tongue in cheek digs, for the most part JJ did an excellent job of building on what TLJ built up. IMO, obviously.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/22 07:51:06
2019/12/22 09:01:52
Subject: Re:Star Wars Rise of Skywalker - WARNING, SPOILERS.
Jjohnso11 wrote: Watching the movies I always thought it was interesting that the "Chosen One from the prophecy" was discussed as someone who would bring balance to the force and that was interpreted as defeating the Sith.
If Sith are Yin and Jedi are Yang- Anakin brought balance to the force by killing powerful Jedi to ensure it was balanced for both the good and the evil.
Funnily enough in one of the comics Mace and Yoda have that conversation with Yoda pointing it out that 2 sith and 2 Jedi would be balanced.
However to be fair there sat in a diner and mace had to ask for a high chair for yoda and to hapless thieves try too hold the diner up and Mace has to get his bad mother jedi wallet back.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/22 11:45:50
Your last point is especially laughable and comical, because not only the 7th ed Valkyrie shown dumber things (like being able to throw the troopers without parachutes out of its hatches, no harm done) - Irbis
2019/12/22 11:51:30
Subject: Star Wars Rise of Skywalker - WARNING, SPOILERS.
I saw RoS yesterday.
I don't know. I enjoyed it a lot more than I thought I would I saw a few reviews on line. I can completely understand the negative reviews. It's a weird movie and not in a good way. I don't like how rushed everything was. It could have been a really good movie.
I found that I actually liked Fin and Rey and even Ren. Fin's story arch was a massive missed opportunity based on this movies and what was implied. The dialog was not very good or meaningful the bickering just made them come off a s more angry than they probably were in some spots.
This all got me thinking more about Jedi and what the movies have shown us over the years. I started out with Anew hope and watched that on tape, Beta max if I remember, several times a week growing up. I think I remember seeing The empire strikes back in a theater, I was still quite young, where the picture was being shown on the screen as well as the walls and ceiling, or the projector wasn't working properly, I don't know if that wrap around was a trend or not.
But as far as the Jedi and the Mary sue, well Yes and maybe no but I don't feel I have a strong argument for no. I just think I have been thinking about the Jedi wrong because I keep thinking back the films 4, 5 and 6. But 1,2 and 3 established the fancy super power stuff a Jedi can do and this feels a lot more like that now...because we see Rey was training. It's funny that seeing some one working to improve themselves makes their abilities more believable. I wish they had done more with that in all 3 films but to be honest I haven't felt up to watching 7 and 8 recently.
One thing that bothers me about reviews is why bring up the music and FX at all those being excellent is a given it's the story and dialog that will make or brake a SW movie post prequel. The lazy "they fly now" ...not so much. I don't know.
The rewards of tolerance are treachery and betrayal.
Remember kids, Games Workshop needs you more than you need them.
2019/12/22 15:56:38
Subject: Star Wars Rise of Skywalker - WARNING, SPOILERS.
A little puzzled by all the comments I've seen about it retconning a lot of TLJ. While there were a couple of obviously tongue in cheek digs, for the most part JJ did an excellent job of building on what TLJ built up. IMO, obviously.
There's a LOT of clickbait going around right now to try and stir up the culture war again for selfish and petty reasons. They're trying to stir the pot to get attention and the movie does essentially nothing to deserve it.
2019/12/22 16:52:40
Subject: Star Wars Rise of Skywalker - WARNING, SPOILERS.
I saw it last night. Me and my friend agreed that this was a dumb movie. At times fun, at times boring. Everything happens at such a break neck pace. The over all ending wasn't bad, Not great, but not bad.
Spoiler:
Chewies medal was just fan service and dumb.
I liked the whole look with palpatine. Being a sith mummy on a horrid robot arm. That was great. When his lightning killed him, also great.
Glad it's over.
Move on to like... 3-500 years in the future where every character we have seen so far except the Yodling is dead.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
2019/12/22 16:52:47
Subject: Star Wars Rise of Skywalker - WARNING, SPOILERS.
It's better than good, but lacking something. It has the breathless pacing of TFA and a lot of great moments and ideas. Apparently it was also originally 20 min longer at one point and really shows with a lot of really jerking transitions and few of the excellent aerial stunts that made TFA really memorable.
I think what ends up making the movie so divisive with critics is the ending, which falls into the worst of TFAs issues with feeling rehashed and leaves the viewer feeling very... empty. It's flashy and you kind of get the ideas behind it, but JJA never gives them a sense of weight or meaning (at one point having Palp literally explain a cheap callback) and having so many rapid apparent death/really alive flip flops in quick succession that it feels like watching a coin flipping through the air without any of the tension of not knowing how it will land.
Also, of the thing they DID retcon, which I'll put in spoilers because it really doesn't affect my thoughts on the film, but I have thoughts on it:
Spoiler:
Rey being a Palpatine really struck me as why I don't really care for JJAs mystery boxes. It really doesn't add anything to the film other than trying to win you over with a cheap surprise, but.. its not surprising nor particularly meaningful. Like, Palps evil scheme to possess(?) Rey doesn't suddenly sound appealing because he's her granddad. There's no redeeming the guy... there is no... conflict, but you know, without that line being an obvious lie.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/12/22 16:56:10
2019/12/22 18:29:40
Subject: Star Wars Rise of Skywalker - WARNING, SPOILERS.
I don’t know how you conclude that it’s “better than good” and then describe some of the major flaws (lack of consequences, rushed pacing, pointless plot elements, ineffective reveals) that make it way, way less than good.
Usual disclaimer: I don’t begrudge anyone enjoying a product. If you have a good time watching a movie, that’s great.
These are still the preliminary estimates that will be adjusted tomorrow with the real numbers from Sunday but it looks like ROS is making gobs of money though less than TLJ. $176 mil domestically / $374 international versus $224 mil dom/$450 inter for TLJ.
Also, of the thing they DID retcon, which I'll put in spoilers because it really doesn't affect my thoughts on the film, but I have thoughts on it:
Spoiler:
Rey being a Palpatine really struck me as why I don't really care for JJAs mystery boxes. It really doesn't add anything to the film other than trying to win you over with a cheap surprise, but.. its not surprising nor particularly meaningful. Like, Palps evil scheme to possess(?) Rey doesn't suddenly sound appealing because he's her granddad. There's no redeeming the guy... there is no... conflict, but you know, without that line being an obvious lie.
Spoiler:
I actually liked this development. It's certainly less of a real retcon than, say, Vader turning out to be Luke's father, rather than the guy who killed him. Ultimately, Rey's parents were nobody - we're not even told their names, IIRC. That just wasn't the whole story, only the part that suited Palpatine's purposes at that point in time.
The whole 'kill me and I'll posses you, ahahaha!' thing was possibly coming on a little strong, but is still in keeping with the way he taunted Luke to strike him down in RotJ... and let's face it, Palps is more than a little nuts. I thought I would dislike Palpatine's return to the story, but turned out I really, really enjoyed the way it played out, right down to the symmetry of the confrontation.
2019/12/22 20:56:25
Subject: Star Wars Rise of Skywalker - WARNING, SPOILERS.
Welp, seen it now(one benefit of the ST tanking harder than a Baneblade in Asia - plenty of empty cinemas there for people to make cams in undisturbed ); it's not terrible. It's not good, either, of course.
I mostly feel the same way I did after Force Awakens - it's more successful at signalling to the viewer that it's trying really really hard to be a Star Wars movie than it is at actually being a Star Wars movie. The standard-issue-JJ pacing issues are even worse than TFA, but I expected that going in, and it did some things a lot better than TFA - the main characters actually spent enough time with each other for their emotional moments to feel a little bit earned this time. Some of the dialogue was...not great. The interaction between Palpatine and Rey at the end, for example, is a bit too on the nose, especially when we have the throne room scenes from RotJ to compare it to. In general, everything is a bit too convenient, a bit too illogical, and it sometimes falls a bit flatter than what the film's score is trying to tell me I should be feeling, but it's not the worst movie ever made and it's certainly not the worst Star Wars movie that exists.
I'd give it a solid Phantom Menace out of 10.
What remains to be seen now is what Disney do next. If they use this film to cap off the Sequels and on - ideally under new management - to more interesting things, I'd say RoS is probably about as close to a success as it could be(in terms of the franchise, not money obviously) given the context. If Kennedy manages to dig in and goes back to giving Johnson and his ilk opportunities to mangle the franchise, it'll be an even bigger wasted opportunity than TFA was.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/22 21:58:21
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
2019/12/22 22:13:05
Subject: Star Wars Rise of Skywalker - WARNING, SPOILERS.
Personally I think the plot points and big 'reveals' of the RoS were meh and really something which was done better several times in old EU. However, I will say that if they had not done TLJ at all and instead just let JJA do RoS as two movies, end result would have been better. It would still have been a meh story, but at least it could have been well told & suitably built story. Now everything in RoS happens not only with no foreshadowing or build-up whatsoever, but at times completely contradicting what happened in two previous movies. You are constantly left wondering, what the heck was even the point of previous movies??
Plot twists of the prequel trilogy made no sense either, but at least there George was working towards clear and well-defined goal and build accordingly. RoS just throws you bunch of hardballs and says 'gotta catch 'em all!!'
Mr Vetock, give back my Multi-tracker!
2019/12/22 23:10:09
Subject: Re:Star Wars Rise of Skywalker - WARNING, SPOILERS.
Given that this film establishes that Force ghosts are able to directly interact with and manipulate physical reality (which I believe is a first), I don't really see any reason why force ghost anakin couldn't have just shown up and killed Palpatine directly. More interesting though, would have been if while Rey is blocking Sidious force lightning the ghosts of Jedi past show up and use some sort of ghostly force power to destroy Palpatine once and for all or something, would have avoided the confusion that many seem to have with how Rey killed Palpatine without being possessed by him like he claimed she would be if she had executed him (this is more a problem with the audience than the movie IMO, as I dont believe Rey actually attacks him or strikes him, rather its his own Sith lightning which is reflected back at him by Reys defense which proves to be his undoing).
That would have been a cool ending.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
); it's not terrible. It's not good, either, of course.
