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Oh my, some of the models are incredible like Saladin and male lynx...CB is on fire....

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
You are really the first person I hear that does not like the nightsticks Spector, I have heard arguments that this should have been the Spector model in the first place instead of the BS model, but not liking the Defiance Spector?

Far right outline? what else you make out except it has a Yu Jing drop trooper backpack?

It's totally a Fat Yaun-Yaun

Gosh, now I need to buy the O-12 box because I - for sure - need those Delats and Lynx!

Ugh, I just want nice minis for a cyberpunk RPG campaign, and the amount of non-humans in this kickstarter raises the price point to a... prohibitive level.

That said, I haven't been kickstarting for a while. Would 1 euro + the add-on be a valid pledge? I couldn't bring myself to cough up 160e for the 4-5 interesting minis in the basic+ce, but I could do 71e for the "possibly" upcoming expansion...

N3p3nth3 wrote:
Ugh, I just want nice minis for a cyberpunk RPG campaign, and the amount of non-humans in this kickstarter raises the price point to a... prohibitive level.

That said, I haven't been kickstarting for a while. Would 1 euro + the add-on be a valid pledge? I couldn't bring myself to cough up 160e for the 4-5 interesting minis in the basic+ce, but I could do 71e for the "possibly" upcoming expansion...

On a normal Kickstarter yeah. However in the FAQ for this one it says you need to back one of the pledge levels to be able to get expansions and add ons.

 ImAGeek wrote:

N3p3nth3 wrote:
Ugh, I just want nice minis for a cyberpunk RPG campaign, and the amount of non-humans in this kickstarter raises the price point to a... prohibitive level.

That said, I haven't been kickstarting for a while. Would 1 euro + the add-on be a valid pledge? I couldn't bring myself to cough up 160e for the 4-5 interesting minis in the basic+ce, but I could do 71e for the "possibly" upcoming expansion...

On a normal Kickstarter yeah. However in the FAQ for this one it says you need to back one of the pledge levels to be able to get expansions and add ons.

Thanks, I missed that. Looks like they'll be out of 70 euros, then.

I'm down to a 1 euro pledge now. If things look more inline with this being an actual boardgame and not just a way to sell infinity the wargame once things are all done I might back as the pledge manager is supposed to be open for several months.

I couldn't find a list of what's in the Reinforcement Packs, so I threw this together using the prices on Gamenerdz, which is in USD. "Value" is obviously subjective given that a lot of these aren't sold separately, but it gives you an idea. Let me know if I got anything wrong:

Onyx Reinforcement Pack
Fraacta w/Spitfire - $10.47
Fraacta w/Boarding Shotgun - $9.17
Umbra Samaritan w/Breaker Combi Rifle - $13.77
Unidron Batroid w/Plasma Sniper Rifle - 1/4 of $27.37 Unidron Batroid box
Unidron Batroid w/Plasma Carbine - 1/6 of $37.47 Combined Army starter box
Unidron Batroid w/Plasma Carbine - 1/6 of $37.47 Combined Army starter box
Xeodron Batroid w/Red Fury - 1/2 of $36.97 Xeodron Batroid box
$71.23 Value

Morat Reinforcement Pack
Kornak Gazarot - $9.17
Rasyat w/Boarding Shotgun - $13.27
Suryat w/HMG - $10.47
Hungries box (4 figures) - $29.97
Oznat - 1/6 of $37.47 Morat starter box
$69.13 Value

PanO Reinforcement Pack
Patsy Garnett - $10.47
Zulu-Cobra w/Jammer - $9.47
Zulu-Cobra Hacker - $9.47
Kamau Hacker - $8.77
Kamau w/Sniper Rifle - 1/6 of $33.47 Varuna starter box
Kamau w/Combi Rifle - 1/6 of $33.47 Varuna starter box
Tikbalang - 1/2 of $39.97 Stingray 3 box
$69.33 Value

Aleph Reinforcement Pack
Dakini Tacbots box (4 figures: Deva Functionary w/Spitfire, Tacbot w/HMG, Tacbot w/MULTI Sniper Rifle, Tacbot Paramedic) - $29.97
ALEPH Rebots box (2 figures) - $23.47
Deva w/Combi Rifle - 1/6 of Aleph starter box (not currently available outside Operation Coldfront box)
Shakti Hacker - 1/6 of Beyond Coldfront $37.47
$65.27 Value (assuming a $33.47 price for Aleph starter)

It's weird that they are breaking up boxes like Beyond Coldfront. Makes me wonder if maybe N4 will have a different distribution scheme?

It's really strange to have so many different two player starters. I know in the BoW interview about N4 SKU bloat was a huge concern with retailers so it wouldn't surprised me if they just had one N4 2-player starter and all the Operation boxes went away.

I think the two player starters are Infinity's biggest sellers by a country mile. I'd expect the rest of the line to be culled before the Operation boxes.

I guess it is possible that the older ones will go out of print once every faction is represented (are we there already? Tohaa vs Mercenaries?), possibly being replaced by new ones. So, maybe an Operation Icestorm N4 with new PanO/Nomad sculpts and terrain for N4.

They've also talked about SKU bloat before, so I'm expecting more bundles like the Operation / Army Packs / 300 pt boxes going forward and less individual models.

 Monkeysloth wrote:
CB has gotten a lot better about translations, the last few books have been great fluff wise.

There's still a lot of odd sentence constructions and word choices that are probably perfectly fine in Spanish, but come across a bit wonky in English. It does make reading some rules rather hard going IME.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

N3p3nth3 wrote:
Ugh, I just want nice minis for a cyberpunk RPG campaign, and the amount of non-humans in this kickstarter raises the price point to a... prohibitive level.

You're probably better off looking at all the various bounty hunters and whatnot already freely available, then. It'd be nice if the various pledge levels and add-ons ( :( ) told us how many card sleeves we'll need. Also, the mix of the add-on miniatures is a little annoying - pick up the Onyx reinforcement pack and you've got no way to get the other Xeodron without ending up with a doubler.

Im getting a little confused about what all is needed with this - I am on board for a co-op dungeon crawler-esque game, but not particularly interested in building an army or two of miniatures for a different game. Also have seen comments about you will have counters to represent minis you dont have? So if I just want everything to have a miniature with Defiance, I would need to purchase the reinforcement packs right? Or are those more for those that want to use this kickstarter as a jumping off point for army building for the Infinity Wargame?

Also seen comments about the Wildfire(?) pack that is out now - is that a good idea to get that thing again if only interested in the Defiance game? The minis look great but again I am not lookin to build an entire army....

Operation Wildfire is a two-player starter set for Infinity featuring the O-12 and Shasvastii factions.

If you're only interested in the game, then the core pledge would be the cheapest way to get into that. The Collectors pledge adds extra miniatures for the enemy models, and the Deluxe pledge adds the scenery box for €10 off the price of that box separately. Neither are necessary if you're primarily interested in the game, as they only add shiny things, not gameplay. After that, the Onyx and Morat expansion packs add even more miniatures. Again, not really necessary as the cards for those are all included in the core pledge (although you'd need to make your own counters, as there's no mention of those being included). The Outcast set (not yet unlocked) adds two new heroes and six enemies (human enemies this time, not aliens; apparently trying to silence the heroes or under the impression they're infected with an alien nanovirus). This is the only add-on that will improve the gameplay so far. I's unclear whether the rules and cards for the model exclusive to the €250 Outcast pledge level are included in the Outcast set even if the miniature isn't, or if you need to stump up a quarter of a grand to play that hero.

 ImAGeek wrote:

N3p3nth3 wrote:
Ugh, I just want nice minis for a cyberpunk RPG campaign, and the amount of non-humans in this kickstarter raises the price point to a... prohibitive level.

That said, I haven't been kickstarting for a while. Would 1 euro + the add-on be a valid pledge? I couldn't bring myself to cough up 160e for the 4-5 interesting minis in the basic+ce, but I could do 71e for the "possibly" upcoming expansion...

On a normal Kickstarter yeah. However in the FAQ for this one it says you need to back one of the pledge levels to be able to get expansions and add ons.

Looks like ShaeKonnit split shop is cool place for you.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:
CB has gotten a lot better about translations, the last few books have been great fluff wise.

There's still a lot of odd sentence constructions and word choices that are probably perfectly fine in Spanish, but come across a bit wonky in English. It does make reading some rules rather hard going IME.

That's why I added fluff. Their rules are still hard to follow sometimes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sqorgar wrote:
I think the two player starters are Infinity's biggest sellers by a country mile. I'd expect the rest of the line to be culled before the Operation boxes.

I guess it is possible that the older ones will go out of print once every faction is represented (are we there already? Tohaa vs Mercenaries?), possibly being replaced by new ones. So, maybe an Operation Icestorm N4 with new PanO/Nomad sculpts and terrain for N4.

They've also talked about SKU bloat before, so I'm expecting more bundles like the Operation / Army Packs / 300 pt boxes going forward and less individual models.

Because their the best deal and have good selection of starter minis for a faction. Regardless of sales if retailers push back they're going to have to do something else. CB really wants to be in gamestores. I'm in an area with lots of game stores (I drive past 3 on my 15min drive to work, going 15 min the other way is the same number) and the only Infinity stuff is N2 and a few operation boxes (mostly icestorm). And half don't even carry the line (not counting stores that don't carry minis).

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

N3p3nth3 wrote:
Ugh, I just want nice minis for a cyberpunk RPG campaign, and the amount of non-humans in this kickstarter raises the price point to a... prohibitive level.

You're probably better off looking at all the various bounty hunters and whatnot already freely available, then. It'd be nice if the various pledge levels and add-ons ( :( ) told us how many card sleeves we'll need. Also, the mix of the add-on miniatures is a little annoying - pick up the Onyx reinforcement pack and you've got no way to get the other Xeodron without ending up with a doubler.

Oh, I've gone through those as well. I have a pretty specific vision of what I want, and some of these minis (Jazz, Aida Swanson,, the O-12 minis, maybe Spector FTO) really hit that vision. Just like the collars and ties Securitate and Grenzers do.

That said, I just scored the not-Adam Jensen Shukra Consultant and the nomad starter sniper Grenzer off some Spanish box-splitter on ebay, so unless he rips me off, I guess I've just saved 115e I can use towards this.

For those that are only looking for the miniatures, CB has said:

"With the $1 pledge you will have access to the pledge manager later but until you increase your pledge to one of the game level pledges you wont have access to any of the add ons."

However, things have recently changed...

"you can have access to the pledge manager with out pledging a game level. The only thing is that you do have to pledge at a game level pledge to have access to the add ons."

I don't see the practical difference?

I don't think I'll be pledging on this one. As other have said this is feeling like just a box to sell infinity the game rather than the board game and I don't have much use for one or two minis from a range of factions.

It's also really bloody expensive to get the Collector's edition, which has much more value than the core set.

 Soul Samurai wrote:
I don't see the practical difference?

Well, only difference is do you pay 100€ now or later in pm xD

The difference is not showing support during the campaign, not giving help in unlocking stretch goals and not showing interest in the project, and later in the pledge manager selecting from a more diminished selection of options.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
The difference is not showing support during the campaign, not giving help in unlocking stretch goals and not showing interest in the project, and later in the pledge manager selecting from a more diminished selection of options.

But unlocking SG's is becoming, give money, so that you get option to give even more money for expansion...so that you can give even more money for new expansion...even CMON who love to gouge people on FOMO and have mastered to squeez $$$ from backers don't do that,lol

Maybe not everyone has 100-300€ at this moment, that's why it's common practice during KS campaigns to offer either late pledge of access to pm with 1$, because not everyone has money at hand, people have bills to pay, mouths to feed, gak can happen etc. The way you phrase it, if someone is not throwing $$$ at this project they are 'not showing support, interest etc' ...2nd tier backers...

One would think that you can be interested in something without just shouting TAKE MY MONEY and throwing money at screen....seems you can't as you say...

Well CMON is a publicly traded company from Hong Kong, and their add ons are announced after a certain amount of pledges have been accumulated, not before, if that was not the case then they would simply announce all add ons from the start.

So the issue here is that CB is honest in saying, "well if we reach X amount of $ we can afford to invest the resources to offer an add" on instead of CMONs direction of just announcing the add ons when they hit the $ amount they wanted?

 smurfORnot wrote:

One would think that you can be interested in something without just shouting TAKE MY MONEY and throwing money at screen....seems you can't as you say...

Of course you can be interested in something even without pledging but, how much interest and more importantly commitment to that interest shows a 1$ pledge?

Oh-oh if CB are talking about “SKU bloat” that normally means a sectorial is about to get squatted.

There has been no "squatted" sectorial, there have been sectorials put out of active rotation, they will come back to rotation at some point in the future and some other sectorial will come out of rotation.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
Well CMON is a publicly traded company from Hong Kong, and their add ons are announced after a certain amount of pledges have been accumulated, not before, if that was not the case then they would simply announce all add ons from the start.

 smurfORnot wrote:

One would think that you can be interested in something without just shouting TAKE MY MONEY and throwing money at screen....seems you can't as you say...

Of course you can be interested in something even without pledging but, how much interest and more importantly commitment to that interest shows a 1$ pledge?

Well, tactic here in play is, reveal them when funding slows in order to unlock new SG's which once again generate more inerest from undecided people(hey look, more free stuff, that deal is not looking bad at all now, I better back it), because then people pledge for them and unlock new stuff. On top of that, SG funding is not set in stone, if funding goes very well, you can have 50k for single SG, yet if it slows down, they will adjust it and it can be 15k for example. If you look at their campaigns, there is clear pattern to this.
They have even gone on lengths to add free stuff not yet unlocked, when campaign turned bad...for example Trudvang legends.

As already said, not everyone has maybe so much cash at hand at that given moment, maybe people have several projects they are backing, maybe they are not sure do they wanna fully commit or not. etc. there can be plenty of reasons for that. I was not once in situation where I pledged 1$ and then later decided, I really want that and pledged full ammount or decided against that because other factors.

For example I might be interested in new infinity army, that does not mean, I will run to the store and throw several hundread euros on it, nor does it mean I will not buy it at one point.

I understand these reasons and I can see it on an individual/ per case basis, but I do not think the minimum pledge of 100EU (upgradable later on on the pledge manager) is that steep, on the other hand if one is not committed on a simple pledge how reassured one can be they will be committed later on?

I understand the tactic and I understand the ways CMON utilizes them during campaigns I just pointed out since CMON was mentioned that CMON and CB are not similar by a large degree.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:

So the issue here is that CB is honest in saying, "well if we reach X amount of $ we can afford to invest the resources to offer an add" on...

Not sure if serious...

Of course you can be interested in something even without pledging but, how much interest and more importantly commitment to that interest shows a 1$ pledge?

Exactly ‘1$‘ now, with potentially a lot more later?

SeanDrake wrote:
Oh-oh if CB are talking about “SKU bloat” that normally means a sectorial is about to get squatted.

Or that they're about to drop another price hike.